Sun or Afternoon Shade

memrysSeptember 6, 2012

Wondering if these cultivars will need some afternoon shade in my climate -- 7,000-foot elevation, intense sunlight, low humidity, often windy:

Pinus parvifolia 'Ogon'

P.p.' Ogon Janome'

p.p. 'Goldylocks'

P.p. 'Tanima no uki'

Pinus Thunbergii 'Ogon'

P.t. 'Shirome Janome'

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coniferjoy(z7 The Netherlands)

Yep, they all need the afternoon hade in your climate.

Some name corrections:

Pinus parviflora 'Ogon Janome'
Must be written as
Pinus parviflora 'Ogon-janome'

Pinu parviflora 'Goldylocks'
Is the just a synonym for what is
Pinus parviflora 'Tenysu-kazu'

Pinus parviflora 'Tanima no uki'
Must be written as
Pinus parviflora 'Tanima-no-yuki'

Pinus thunbergii 'Shirome Janome'
Must be written as
Pinus thunbergii 'Shirome-janome'

I hope I helped you with this info...

    Bookmark   September 7, 2012 at 4:25AM
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ken_adrian Adrian MI cold Z5

all of them????

afternoon shade.. for plants with yellow tissue .. is all about the plants ability.. to pump enough water to the less strong yellow tissue ... during the heat of the day ...

if siting is perfected .. the yellow tissue survives .. intact ...

if it transpires.. or sweats .. more water than it can pump to the tissue.. then the tissue burns ... or browns.. while the green tissue survives in tact ..

how that all works.. in your precise garden .. is left to you to figure out ...

it is the same in the great white north.. but we also have winter desiccation due to dry winter air burning the yellow tissue ..

now.. all that said ... using your list [for ease of copy/paste], here are various comments .. BASED ON MY Z5 EXPERIENCE:

Pinus parvifolia 'Ogon' --- not really a yellow.. but not quite green

P.p.' Ogon Janome' -- i have only seen one pic of a thriving plant.. i think that was monkeyboys pic recently ... otherwise a very hard plant to grow ...

p.p. 'Goldylocks' .. 5 of them have committed suicide in my MI garden ... not for the faint of heart or budget ... [and size might matter on all these.. i start small.. i think it has been suggested that larger transplants might do better .. in other words.. the wholesaler takes all the risk to get it to 3 feet .. to grow the requisite root mass]

P.p. 'Tanima no uki' --- very slow and small for me ... otherwise.. a good one .. though its more of a white tissue plant.. but white is even more foo foo than yellow]

Pinus Thunbergii 'Ogon' -- same comments regarding color above, though a bit more yellow that the parv ..... and one of the few thun's that thrive, let alone live ... long term ... for me ...

P.t. 'Shirome Janome' -- mine was spectacular for a number of years.. then died like a bunch of other thuns.. in my garden ...


ps: i have had pines, especially OD's.. where all the yellow completely burns off.. every summer or winter.. but the plant has enough green to THRIVE ... thru re-needling every spring ... sooner or later.. they seem to shed this issue.. and i always presumed it was a function of having finally established a root mass sufficient to take care of biznez ...

    Bookmark   September 7, 2012 at 11:25AM
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Thank you both for the info and sharing of experiences. I am strongly leaning toward growing these cultivars in containers, where they can have full morning sun but afternoon shade.

We also have winter dessication due to the dry climate, and cold winter winds to boot. I will be able to move the containers into an insulated but unheated garage during periods of extraordinary cold, as well.

    Bookmark   September 7, 2012 at 1:33PM
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ken_adrian Adrian MI cold Z5

there is no such thing as extra-ordinary cold in z6 ... for these pines ...

your bigger risk in the garage would be adding a zone or two.. and actually .. repeatedly .. interrupting dormancy ...

get them dormant.. keep them dormant ... and that is more important than a little desiccation .. IMHO ...


    Bookmark   September 7, 2012 at 5:00PM
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Thanks, Ken! I certainly did not consider the dormancy issue.

We had a few nights of -16F last winter, however, although it usually does not get near that cold. And the north side (front) of the house, where is where the containers will be placed, has somewhat more protection than other areas.

    Bookmark   September 7, 2012 at 5:16PM
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ken_adrian Adrian MI cold Z5

does your ground.. or will the pots.. freeze solid???

at that point the problem MIGHT be ... trapping excessive moisture.. and freezing the roots into an ice cube ...

up here.. we would tip the pots on the sides.. to avoid such ...

understanding that MI may as well be mars.. compared to N NM ... lol ..

soooo ... no black pots in sun .... [i am talking small pots] ... get them dormant.. keep them dormant.. and some protection from long term dessication whether from winter sun or howling winter wind [i think its the potential for freeze/thaw of needles .. day vs night.. repeatedly] ...

i think that covers the variables... unless i dream up some others ...

do you have a silver helmet.. oh great merlin???



Here is a link that might be useful: link

    Bookmark   September 8, 2012 at 7:50AM
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Perhaps the biggest difference between MI and Northern NM is that it is very dry here. We were in zone 5 before the global warming upgrade to 6a/b, so the ground will freeze, but probably not as solid as you.

The plants are in black nursery pots, but will not get any winter sun since they are on the north side of the house. Dessication from cold winds, however, is perhaps my biggest concern. If the rootballs freeze, the they will not be able to get any water. So what might you suggest for these conditions?

And FWIW, Merlin never had a silver helmet -- a tinfoil hat was more than enough.... (grin). But remember his fateful words:

"I am a blessing to some, and a CURSE to others!!!"

    Bookmark   September 8, 2012 at 10:33AM
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