Rose recommendation to replace M. Sunrise

prairie_love(z3/4 ND)June 7, 2012

Hi all,

I live in North Dakota, zone 3. In the last few years we have become enamored of roses and have tried several "cold-hardy" ones with varying success. Ones that do well for us are Morden Fireglow and Hope for Humanity. Both of these come back reliably with good growth. Winnipeg Parks has been less successful - it comes back but as very small plants with little growth. I am hopeful that they will grow more during the season.

The one I have been struggling with and am saddest to see this spring is Morden Sunrise. I have 10 of these. They all returned last spring and performed reasonably well last summer. We then had a dry fall and winter, probably less snow cover than usual although I do mulch heavily. Only 3 of the 10 Sunrise came back this spring and they are tiny plants. I am frustrated because this is an expensive replacement!

Do you have recommendations for me either (1) how to care for them better so they return reliably, or (2) other roses to replace with? I love the unique color of Sunrise and would like to stay with yellow/peach in this area.

Thanks for any help!

(cross-posted to Rose forum)

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jennypat Zone 3b NW MN(Zone 3b NW MN)

Hmmm we must be neighbors, I am in MN but only 8 miles from ND, and on the line between zones 3 & 4........I am also looking for a replacement for M Sunrise.I love the color of this rose, but alas, it didn't survive our winter.
I have grown other Morden roses for years, don't remember the names on them, just that they are Mordens.

    Bookmark   June 7, 2012 at 8:35PM
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northspruce(z3a MB CDA)

I don't have one but Prairie Peace is supposed to be a really good rose. I have had good results with the Canadian Explorers but I don't think there's anything in your color range.

We had the same hot dry summer and fall last year. I had to do a lot of watering. It's not good to let roses go into the winter dry.

    Bookmark   June 7, 2012 at 9:27PM
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weeper_11(2b SK)

I have a Prairie Peace is beautiful and the hardiest rose I have. I never mulch it, I barely watered it, and it grows like a weed. But that is what some people won't like about it: 1)it's natural way of growing - tall, lanky, with smaller leaves. Can look scraggly if you don't prune every year. I think it looks better trained to grow over something, but that is just me. 2)Very fast growing. Even if you prune in late winter, sometime in the summer you are bound to get a huge growth spurt. If you can live with these 2 "downsides"(in the location I have it, it is perfect and I love it), it is a great rose with pretty peachy/yellow flowers. Blooms very profusely, but doesn't bloom constantly. Heavy bloom in spring(buds coloring up now) and I think I got a rebloom last summer but I may be imagining things. ;) And I can't stress how hardy it is. Seriously.

I second northspruce's comment about watering if it is a dry fall and hot dry summer. They may survive it, but it puts them under a lot of stress.

There aren't many really hardy peach/yellow roses out there, unfortunately. It'll be interesting to see how the new Canadian Artist rose Bill Reid does, I think it is either yellow or yellow/peach.

    Bookmark   June 7, 2012 at 11:19PM
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I've bought a few Morden Sunrise roses in my latest one is still alive, but it certainly is a fussy thing. I can't help you with other yellow/peach roses because MS is the only one I have of that color. My neighbour had a JP Connell which starts off yellow and fades to white and it was hardy.

I will say that Morden Blush and Morden Ruby are very hardy and come back as reliably as Hope For Humanity. Alexander McKenzie is also one that grows in my zone. I never had much luck with Winnipeg Parks. How can you tell that I'm partial to reds and pinks?

    Bookmark   June 8, 2012 at 1:44AM
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I have 2 Hazledeans which are very hardy. They are yellow and bloom profusely in the spring. A shrub rose . Last winter there seemed to be a lot a winter kill. Too warm too late and very little snow.Lost a lot of lilies plus some shrubs,

    Bookmark   June 8, 2012 at 8:01AM
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prairie_love(z3/4 ND)

northspruce - Prairie Peace looks excellent! The flower color is almost identical to Sunrise, and it is listed as hardy to 2a. I will have to look for it, thank you.

weeper - thank you for the additional comments regarding P. Peace. I see it is a shrub rose - might get bigger than I intended for the location. Can I prune hard to keep it maybe two feet or so in height? Otherwise, may have to rethink location because I'm starting to think I can't live without this one :)

As for the dryness - perhaps I have taken previous years' weather for granted. I've never watered after plants have settled in, and never seemed to need to. I'm thinking maybe I paid for that this spring. In addition to the roses, I lost a number of perennials :( I will pay more attention to the dryness as we head into winter.

Donna - LOL, yes you do like reds and pinks! So do I, but they belong in the front yard, the back yard is orange and yellow. In fact, the entire color scheme of the back yard was based on the Sunrises. I was looking at M. Ruby the other day, may have to add it to my collection. As for W. Parks - I can't be without that gorgeous pink so may have to have "annual" W. Parks.

beegood - Hazeldean is a beautiful yellow! May have to consider a location for it as well.

that's the danger of posting here - you all have now expanded my "wish" list!

thank you for the advice and recommendations!

    Bookmark   June 8, 2012 at 9:10AM
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weeper_11(2b SK)

Prairie Love - I lost some perennials last winter too, and since I have heavy clay soil, I'm not sure it was just how dry it was. We had some freeze/thaw cycles that I think finished off a few perennials, and I think we didn't have enough snow cover(whereas the previous winter, which was terribly cold, we had tons of snow and I barely lost anything). But for the roses, I had almost no cain die-back this year, so I'm thinking loses there could be a result of dryness combined with too little snow-cover..but of course there are many variables involved with individual climates and microclimates.

About Prarie Peace: it is a hybrid spinosissima rose, which explains it's distinctive lanky, small-leafed "look". This rose will grow to around 10 ft tall, from what I've read. Mine is 3 years old, started from small suckers, and approx. 5 1/2 ft tall, even with the deer mowing it off a few times. I imagine it could certainly be kept shorter than 10 ft, but 2 ft is too much of a stretch, methinks!

Maybe someone with more experience could tell you how PP will do with that much pruning. In my experience, it is always best to work with what is natural for the plant, instead of trying to make it do what you want. Eventually, the plant will either disappoint you, die, or prove that it is more perserverant that you are. ;)

Have you looked at the new Bill Reid rose? Since it is so new, I wouldn't invest in a bunch of them, but you could try one out and see how it does for you. I think I've read that it is being considered an improved M. Sunrise.

    Bookmark   June 8, 2012 at 10:22AM
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northspruce(z3a MB CDA)

The photos I've seen of Prairie Peace look a lot like Harison's Yellow in shape - they look best if you let them grow into a big heap of flowers and happiness. Prune only for general shape and maintenance, not size. HY also has those little hybrid spinnosissima leaves; I think that's the group it's from too. I agree it can look messy especially if you only have a few canes.

I also have a butter yellow Rugosa called 'Agnes'. The blooms are very nice but the plant is fairly hideous. It occasionally repeats later in the season but the main flush is in June.

    Bookmark   June 8, 2012 at 12:57PM
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weeper_11(2b SK)

Yep, I agree. If you plant it(PP) you better be going for a bit of the wild rambling look..and it is indeed gorgeous when you let it do so, a massive mound of blooms and vigour! But it won't be the right rose for every spot.

    Bookmark   June 8, 2012 at 7:19PM
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northspruce(z3a MB CDA)

Does anyone here grow the Buck's rose Folksinger? It's not rated any hardier than the Mordens but if it was more vigorous than Miss Sunshine it might do better in the long run.

It's one I've wanted to find for a long time... Love that orangey color!!

    Bookmark   June 8, 2012 at 10:41PM
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marciaz3 Tropical 3 Northwestern Ontario

Gil, i'm sure you'd find it at Hortico. That's where i got Hawkeye Belle, and i'm pretty sure i remember Folksinger on their list. Of course, it has been a few years since i looked, but worth a shot, eh?

    Bookmark   June 9, 2012 at 9:06AM
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weeper_11(2b SK)

Well, plenty of people overwinter Buck roses, but they do take protection that most of the morden's don't require. Folksinger is usally listed as either zone 4, 4b, or sometimes 5. The Morden roses are zone 2 and 3 I believe(mainly 3's)

Folksinger is really beautiful though. But even with good winter protection, it would probably die back to the ground each year, and in a bad year, you might lose it.

On the other hand, you guys are zone 3, maybe that half of zone would make the difference for you. But it isn't really in the same category of hardiness as any of the Canadian roses.

    Bookmark   June 9, 2012 at 9:55AM
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prairie_love(z3/4 ND)

weeper - the Bill Reid was also suggested to me on the Roses forum. I've been looking into it and it does have some promise. My local trusted nursery does not have it, but she is going to try to locate it for me. If I am able to put it in, I'll let you know how he performs.

I am honestly considering "annual" roses for this location. I could put in several hybrid teas and enjoy them for the season, then plan to replace next year. It's a rather expensive approach but would also allow me to enjoy some unusual varieties.

The other one I'm looking at - not yellow though - is Champlain. Is it really a true red or is it pinkish?

    Bookmark   June 9, 2012 at 10:08AM
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I think you can grow lots of roses, including hybrid teas, outside the preferred growing zone - you just need to prepare them the right way for winter. I know people who wrap their tender plants, but I seem to never get around to doing in my garden, plants have to fend for themselves!

One method that I've heard for overwintering tender roses is to dig them up in the Fall and lay them at a 45 degree angle on their sides in a trench and cover them up. Dig them up in the Spring and replant. Obviously, you would need to mark the spot where these roses are overwintering!

    Bookmark   June 9, 2012 at 11:35AM
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northspruce(z3a MB CDA)

Champlain is a true red. It's cane hardy to the snow line here but the bunnies seem to like eating its canes more than any of my other roses. It produces a lot of medium-small flowers that are almost fully double. Repeats well. Nice foliage and no bug problems to speak of.

    Bookmark   June 9, 2012 at 2:11PM
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prairie_love(z3/4 ND)

Donna - yes, people here bury their tender roses too. I am not going to do that. I have neither the time nor the patience! Like you, my plants have to fend for themselves.

northspruce - thanks for the info on Champlain - I may consider it still.

    Bookmark   June 9, 2012 at 2:48PM
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marciaz3 Tropical 3 Northwestern Ontario

My Champlain has a LOT of dieback every year - well below the snow line. I usually heap leaves up around it, but it doesn't matter. Marie Bugnet is right with it and has almost no dieback each year. She's just starting to bloom now, the first of all my roses.

    Bookmark   June 9, 2012 at 3:44PM
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I have a Theresa Bugnet ( pink) and is indestructable. Starting to bloom as well. About 5 ft tall. Smells like a wild rose. Blooms off and on all summer. I think Marie is the white version.

    Bookmark   June 9, 2012 at 4:40PM
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marciaz3 Tropical 3 Northwestern Ontario

Yes, Marie is white. I have some Therese Bugnets as well - the ones that were donated to our plant sale didn't all sell, so i still have some in pots. I'd like to plant one somewhere, but i'm not sure where in my yard it could go. Will have to ponder that.

    Bookmark   June 9, 2012 at 11:33PM
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northspruce(z3a MB CDA)

Not sure if this will work but here's a link to my Champlain entry at Helpmefind. I'm northspruce there too. ;)

Here is a link that might be useful: champlain

    Bookmark   June 9, 2012 at 11:44PM
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marciaz3 Tropical 3 Northwestern Ontario

Beautiful pic, Gil. When i take pictures of it, it always comes out pinkish!

    Bookmark   June 10, 2012 at 8:44AM
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prairie_love(z3/4 ND)

Wow, gorgeous photo of Champlain! Thank you for sharing.

    Bookmark   June 10, 2012 at 11:27AM
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