Rose seedlings ......

twroszJune 27, 2008

Well, some of my better seedlings that seem to have their act together when it comes to health and beauty, something not easy to obtain when breeding roses, you should see all the ones that'll be tossed out! Considering the parentage, these should prove to be hardy to zone 3 ... or at least I hope! For the most part, I'm working to widen the color range and form of hardy repeat florabunda types.

Terry

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shazam_z3

Whoa. They all look great!! So, when I can drop by and take some cuttings?

    Bookmark   June 27, 2008 at 5:08PM
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debbie_z2

Oh my, they are all beautiful Terry! I'd buy one in a heartbeat...every one actually, but especially the 3rd one!! LOVE IT!
Deb

    Bookmark   June 27, 2008 at 6:25PM
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northspruce(z3a MB CDA)

Wow, awesome! I am so interested in your breeding efforts, thanks for showing us your little beauties! #2 is my favourite, it's so bright.

    Bookmark   June 27, 2008 at 6:34PM
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marciaz3 Tropical 3 Northwestern Ontario

I vote for #1. :) Do you have names for your babies, Terry?

    Bookmark   June 27, 2008 at 10:32PM
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sazzyrose(2b Sk)

Ohhh...I'd buy them all.

Shelley

    Bookmark   June 28, 2008 at 7:33PM
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bloomorelse(Z4b NB Canada)

Great roses Terry. Put my name down for #1 when it becomes available. I'm serious. I sure would buy this one. How many more years of testing before they would be available to the public? Do you currently have any that have gone to market? We sure could use more hardy roses around here.

Joan

    Bookmark   June 28, 2008 at 9:08PM
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Konrad___far_north(3..just outside of Edmonton)

Wonderful Terry!
I hope your hard work is paying off!
I'll take the first one.
Konrad

    Bookmark   June 30, 2008 at 1:48AM
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twrosz

Thanks all for your positive comments. Yes, I later hope to get some of the best of these made available, though that does unfortunately take several years of testing and then the time required to reproduce them ... and that's where I'd have to have a company test and market them ... sounds like a big headache to me, LOL. I've been told that Morden has large fields of seedlings and I'm sure we'll soon be seeing more great varieties coming out of there ... though, I breed these roses with all of us in mind in this cold Canadian climate and maybe(?) some might make it into your gardens. As of yet none have been named.

Here's several more ...

These nice buds open up to very full flowers

Generally, I go more for the full double look, though the wavy petals make this one a charmer.

I LIKE the color and form

Rich coloring and hybrid T form on this semidouble

I can never get a good photo of this one, but it's a true beauty!

    Bookmark   June 30, 2008 at 3:39AM
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northspruce(z3a MB CDA)

Oooh there are more! They are all beautiful too. I agree, I usually only like full doubles but that second one I really like with the wavy petals and pastel colouring.

How many years old are these Terry? Are they all seeming to be hardy so far? I ask because I don't know of many Austin-looking fully hardy roses with a quartered shape like your third picture, I think that could be very marketable.

    Bookmark   June 30, 2008 at 9:14AM
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shazam_z3

I will tell you right now that there is a huge market for hardy roses. Our selection is still very limited. People are still discovering that there actually are hardy roses! Every time I go to the garden center, I always see someone that's surprised that these roses exist!

I'm wondering if there is an opportunity for you to sell at least one rose under the Canadian Artists label. That could get you started with an organization with some marketing power.

    Bookmark   June 30, 2008 at 10:57AM
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twrosz

"How many years old are these Terry?" ... some are 4 or 5 yrs old, others are last years seedlings. I only use hardy breeding stock, no tender roses are used within my crosses, thus they should be good in zones 3 and probably even 2 ... none have yet winter killed, mind you, snow is pretty reliable here.

"I'm wondering if there is an opportunity for you to sell at least one rose under the Canadian Artists label". Shazam_z3, I'm gonna work the next few years to build up my numbers of desirable and healthy roses, then make myself some contacts and take things from there. Next year I intend to set out several hundred more seedlings, so this is definitely an ongoing thing ... it's just too exciting to stop now!

Terry

    Bookmark   June 30, 2008 at 2:05PM
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debbie_z2

"I only use hardy breeding stock, no tender roses are used within my crosses, thus they should be good in zones 3 and probably even 2"

well if you would like to test them in a zone 2 garden, I'd be more than happy to help you out! LOLS
again, just beautiful roses Terry!
Deb

    Bookmark   July 1, 2008 at 4:51PM
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twrosz

Another of my salmon colored seedlings

Unusual and very full form, though plant is lacking in health

Probably one of my best when it comes to form, rather Hybrid T like, I had done this cross on a whim and glad I did!

    Bookmark   July 2, 2008 at 3:19PM
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savona(z2bBCCanada)

They are all lovely.I would be so excited waiting for that first bloom to open to see what it was like.savona

    Bookmark   July 2, 2008 at 3:57PM
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bloomorelse(Z4b NB Canada)

Terry, how exciting. I love your peachy one as well as your semi-double red one. I also prefer doubles. Wish I had more space as this would very much interest me. I've done some clematis and daylilies from seed, and if I'm lucky enough to have my roses set hips this Fall, I'd like to try roses from seed, but I'm on a city lot and my test garden is not very big. Probably 10' X 12'. Please keep us updated on your new seedlings, and progress once they are marketable. Hopefully they will be available in Canada...SOON

    Bookmark   July 3, 2008 at 9:06PM
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twrosz

Shown as the rose forth from the top, I thougth I'd update things as this being one of the best of the lot. It has held up nicely to disease and seems to be a rose that gets better with age. Also the ones shown in photo number five and nine continue to do very well. The last while I've been culling large numbers of seedlings ... I need the room to make way for what will probably be about 400 seedlings next year, I'm such a sucker for punishment!

Terry

    Bookmark   September 17, 2008 at 12:20AM
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bloomorelse(Z4b NB Canada)

Oh, Terry, they'll lovely. My favorite color is in the coral/salmon/peacy/orangy tones. Hope you get some nice ones in this color range to market before I get too old to dig more holes. Hee hee.

My minis seem to self clean, and not set seed. The fact that they seem to be continuous bloomers, or quick repeats are a bonus though. I guess the only ones I might be able to try from my seed would be my Champlain, J P Connell, Morden Blush and John Davis.

    Bookmark   September 17, 2008 at 10:01PM
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maggiepie_gw

This last one is a real stunner Terry, you've got some lovely babies.

    Bookmark   September 23, 2008 at 4:59PM
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gladzoe(3a)

Very lovely.

    Bookmark   September 29, 2008 at 11:26AM
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sengyan

Terry. Is any of your seedlings fragrant? They are sure gorgeous.

Sengyan

    Bookmark   October 27, 2008 at 9:34PM
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twrosz

Joan, yes, I also really like the salmon/orange tones, though it's harder to get good disease resistance within this color range :( ... yes, I'm wanting to develop several good roses to put out there for others to enjoy ... and hope this comes before I get too old and miserable from all the work I've created for myself, LOL. ... BUT, I have so MANY crosses in mind and now also with using the best of my own seedlings.

Sengyan, some have a light pleasing fragrance, though can't say as if any are strongly so ... though, that's something I might decide to work upon in the future.

    Bookmark   October 27, 2008 at 11:57PM
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canadian_rose(zone 3a)

Hi Terry - I'm interested in hybridizing roses. I've done a lot of research - but I'm still uncertain over certain points.

Do you have a list of what you do?

Thanks,
Carol

    Bookmark   January 4, 2013 at 9:02PM
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donaldvancouver(cool wet z8)

These are very beautiful roses. Are you listing them on Helpmefind? What are you crossing- can you identify the parentage of these?

    Bookmark   January 5, 2013 at 12:39PM
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twrosz

Carol, sorry for the slow response. Rose breeding can be very challenging and frustrating ... for example, due to disease problems, seldom do I keep more than one or two seedlings out of a hundred, I'm focused on having clean healthy plants, though do retain some that get an acceptable amount of disease and having the traits of good bloom quality and hardiness.

Our season is short and often best to work with potted plants that can be protected from frost while the hips mature ... though, many of the species will ripen rather quickly compared to modern complex hybrids of Hybrid Teas and floribundas that take up to four months to ripen! Rugosas and others such very hardy roses will mature if you do your breeding work earlier in the season.

Choose only roses having an excellent health record, though even with crossing two pristine healthy varieties, many diseased offspring will often result, it's frustrating, but just the way it goes, unfortunately :(

Selecting hardy to the tip repeat bloomers and crossing these onto tender Hybrid Teas and floribundas will often result in desirable plants that overwinter with sufficient live wood to thrive on the prairies.

Oh, and some roses are sterile, meaning they do not produce hips or have infertile seeds, but the pollen of these sterile roses can often successfully be used upon other varieties.

donaldvancouver, I have yet to list any of the above roses on HMF, though likely the salmon colored rose shown in the last photo will be listed at some point. The parentage of these roses mainly consist of 'Morden Sunrise', 'John Davis' and 'Winnipeg Parks', though I seldom now work with these particular roses due to disease pressure.

Any other questions, just ask away :)

Terrance

    Bookmark   January 7, 2013 at 6:10PM
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donaldvancouver(cool wet z8)

Terrance- thanks for the info. The Morden roses seem to be real heartbreakers from the point of view of disease resistance. Have you been able to improve them at all by pairing them with resistant tender roses? I'm wondering what Morden Sunrise might do when paired with a Julia Child or any of the newer Kordes, say.
Have you worked with Bonica at all? Prairie Joy?
I'm also very interested in increasing the diversity of zone 3 roses. While I live in Zone 8, I'm Calgarian born and raised and I think there are some great opportunities in these roses.
Anyway- good luck with it.

    Bookmark   January 7, 2013 at 8:50PM
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CLBlakey

Whimsy is my favorite :D

    Bookmark   January 8, 2013 at 12:33PM
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rosecavalier(3 AB)

Donald: Interesting that you ask about Morden Sunrise X Julia Child...this is one of my seedlings in an 8 yr trial timeline I have adopted...also has been tested in your coastal conditions to be mildew and blackspot resistant.

So it is possible to breed in disease resistance...although I always ask myself how much "serendipity" plays into the picture.

Terrance's advice on using healthy stock is sound...Prairie Joy would fit in that category...Is it healthy in your area?

    Bookmark   January 8, 2013 at 1:09PM
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donaldvancouver(cool wet z8)

Rosecavalier- very interesting to see your Morden Sunrise x Julia Child. It's beautiful and looks just like I imagined it would.
We had a terrible summer for blackspot here- at one point in August almost everything was defoliated yet Julia Child was stil the picture of health.
Others in the yellow-orange range that do well against west coast blackspot are Easy Livin'/Easy Going and About Face.
I haven't grown Prairie Joy here on the coast but it's on my list.
Very interesting to meet some talented Zone 3 hybridizers. It inspires me to think that all the great work done at Ag. Canada in the latter 20th century is living on in some way.

    Bookmark   January 8, 2013 at 8:52PM
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twrosz

Donaldvancouver, Rosecavalier's beauty of a rose demonstrates that one can obtain very good disease resistance when crossing Canadian hardy roses with VERY HEALTHY tender types such as 'Julia Child'.

'Prairie Joy' is indeed one of the most healthy roses I've observed, though have yet to reacquire it since moving .... well, I did purchase one last year at Walmart, though it proved to be 'Morden Blush'. Donald, you might wish to give PJ a try.

I have been attempting to create a healthier hardier 'Morden Sunrise' by back crossing it with the below disease resistant and very hardy offspring.

    Bookmark   January 8, 2013 at 11:45PM
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donaldvancouver(cool wet z8)

Terrence- very nice. You've already got something there that is outside the range of Parkland and Explorer roses.

Have either of you worked much with Therese Bugnet? I would like to cross her with some Austins and see what comes out. Unfortunately few of the English roses seem to stand up to our fungal plagues, but Heritage and Crocus seem to do ok.

    Bookmark   January 9, 2013 at 7:23AM
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canadian_rose(zone 3a)

Terrance, thanks!
Your roses are lovely and I love your breeding goals.

I live in an area where there is glacial till, so I cannot plant roses in the garden; I have to use pots (large). So since I have to use pots, I grow tender roses (50) and overwinter them in the garage.

So I was just wondering what you do after you remove the hips from the bushes. Do you stratify them, grow them under lights, etc. Or, because they're hardy, do you just leave them on the bush. If you stratify them would you be willing to let me know your step by step method?

Thanks so much!
Carol

    Bookmark   January 9, 2013 at 11:51AM
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twrosz

Donald, I've been more than prompted to have a few of my roses further tested, though have been s-l-o-w moving forward and instead concentrating on hybridizing and developing others.

Yes, Therese Bugnet should be more utilized, though I believe it displays low fertility as a female plant, but can be crossed onto other roses that are eager seed setters ... actually, I think I'll do a few crosses with it this summer :)

Carol, indeed it's to your advantage having potted roses ... again, due to the long length of time hips require to ripen. I highly recommend crosses be done as early in the season as possible and then even so, you'll need to extend the season to mature them. I almost always must bring them into the greenhouse to finish off the job and then have a tough time keeping the bushes insect free ... aphids and spider mites can quickly build up to vast numbers and overwhelm, sigh!

Collect hips when they begin to show a decent amount of orange color, they do not need to be completely orange or soft. Extract seeds and toss them into a ziploc baggie containing sterilized good quality seed starting mix being slightly moistened, do NOT over wet the mix! Then place into the fridge (not freezer!) and after about six to eight weeks you should begin to see several germinations. Then is the time to take the baggie into the warmth and frequently check for further germinations over the following weeks and carefully remove and plant these, again into good seed starting mix. One must tend your babies very closely at this time! I like to use the plastic trays with the one inch individual cells. Rose seedlings can dry out and perish within a wink, so using a plastic dome covering is of benefit during the early germination phase ... though, do NOT leave it on tooo long or your little seedlings will begin to mold and dampen off.

You can also simply sow all seeds in a pot or tray and keep this in a cool 2 to 4 C location and bring into the warmth when you see the first little guys pop up. I much prefer the baggie method, as I can pluck them out as they sprout and then when germinations cease in about a month, the remaining unsprouted seeds are returned to the fridge for another cold cycle, as many will take their sweet time and require several cold treatments ... using the baggie method you'll most maximize the amount of seedlings obtained.

    Bookmark   January 11, 2013 at 1:24PM
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canadian_rose(zone 3a)

tworosz - That's awesome advice. Another friend of mine in Calgary is going to also be hybridizing. We're learning together.

Here's some questions I have from your info.
1. Do you use anything to get the seed coating off or to clean the seeds (hydrogen peroxide)?
2. Do you use hydrogen peroxide with water for watering?
3. When you say bring out into the warmth - just bring baggie to room temp and leave the seeds in the bag?
4. How do you sterilize the soil?
5. How much room do you use between the seedlings and the light?
6. Do you use a T8 fluourescent bulb?
7. What do you do with the seedlings once they are larger - they can't go outside yet - too cold.

Thanks so much!!
Carol

    Bookmark   January 11, 2013 at 10:52PM
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twrosz

1. Do you use anything to get the seed coating off or to clean the seeds (hydrogen peroxide)?

... No, I just let stratification do the work.

2. Do you use hydrogen peroxide with water for watering?

... No, I do not use hydrogen peroxide.

3. When you say bring out into the warmth - just bring baggie to room temp and leave the seeds in the bag?

... Yes, and frequently checking the bag.

4. How do you sterilize the soil?

... Using fresh mix right from the bag is fine. Otherwise, I microwave until it's heated completely through.

5. How much room do you use between the seedlings and the light?

... I don't use lights, all seedlings are placed in a sunny south window ... use normal seedling / light spacing of about eight to ten inches.

7. What do you do with the seedlings once they are larger - they can't go outside yet - too cold.

... I let many of them just tough it out, though keep them fertilized with a 1/4 diluated solution of triple 20 ... but, those that I see good possible potential with are further potted up.

I have my first germinations occurring now and will probably end up with a window full of a thousand little guys ... too many, too much, lol.

    Bookmark   January 11, 2013 at 11:54PM
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canadian_rose(zone 3a)

That was super helpful!!

I have a few more questions though. :)

1. Why does everyone else recommend trying to take the guck and seed coating off the seed??? Your way seems to work if you have thousands of seedlings!!! Maybe the difference is that you put yours in soil, and they put theirs in paper towels??

2. Hmmmm. I don't have a sunny south window. Bummer. I guess I'll use the T8 fluourescent bulbs that were recommended to me elsewhere?

3. Tough it out - outside?? Are they from hardy parents then? Mine are going to be from tender parents. I think I'll keep them outside during the daytime (once it gets warmer) and in the insulated garage during the night time. So they should be fine under grow lights from germination until May?

I'm getting a much better picture of what to do! Thanks so very much.
Carol

    Bookmark   January 12, 2013 at 3:24PM
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twrosz

1. Why does everyone else recommend trying to take the guck and seed coating off the seed??? Your way seems to work if you have thousands of seedlings!!! Maybe the difference is that you put yours in soil, and they put theirs in paper towels??

... Stratification, whether in soil or paper towel, this allows for the breakdown of the seed coats and germination inhibitors contained within them. While it may look alarming, the seeds will become covered in mold, though this is actually a good thing and nature's way of coxing them to germinate. Removal of the hard seed coat is a very exacting and challenging procedure and most often reserved for difficult to germinate species crosses and or those of low fertility. I have not yet attempted such a route.

2. Hmmmm. I don't have a sunny south window. Bummer. I guess I'll use the T8 fluourescent bulbs that were recommended to me elsewhere?

... Oh, for sure do use the lights, I'd actually recommend it over having the seedlings placed in the window, as they won't become baked by the hot sun.

3. Tough it out - outside?? Are they from hardy parents then? Mine are going to be from tender parents. I think I'll keep them outside during the daytime (once it gets warmer) and in the insulated garage during the night time. So they should be fine under grow lights from germination until May?

... Sorry, when I said "tough it out", I had meant for space while still in the house prior to planting out. The crosses I do are with very hardy types x tender ones, this generally results in plants sufficiently hardy to come through winter with plenty of live wood to enable free flowering.

... Yes, your seedlings will be fine left under the lights until they're ready to be moved outdoors in the spring. Though, just really need to watch over them for the dang spider mites!

    Bookmark   January 12, 2013 at 6:46PM
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canadian_rose(zone 3a)

Terrance - I am so grateful!! I feel like I can do this now. I'm going to choose my seed/pollen parents and when it gets warm enough get them out in the sun in the day and drag them back in at night. I can't do that with all of my roses - too many. But this way the ones I want to hybridize will have a head start!

    Bookmark   January 12, 2013 at 11:40PM
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twrosz

Yes, good idea to give the chosen roses a head start. If you have any other questions, just ask ... also, others should feel free to jump in and add their comments ... heck, it's all about learning :)

This post was edited by twrosz on Sun, Jan 13, 13 at 21:29

    Bookmark   January 13, 2013 at 9:26PM
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