Care for small P. contorta 'Chief Joseph'

nokiOctober 30, 2010

Just found a little P. contorta 'Chief Joseph' at a nursery. I noticed the yellow color immediately, wouldn't had even noticed the plant during the summer. How does this guy look as far as ever growing into a decent looking tree shape one day?

Is shade in winter good, to keep the needles from burning? Or is some sun needed to bring out the yellow color?

Is some summer shade good? Part sun? Afternoon shade? Or full sun just to get it to put on some growth?

Front side

Back side

Thanks for any advice.

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tunilla

Congratulations! I just found one myself after I'd almost given up hope (thanks Ykli). The experienced growers will surely chime in; otherwise just Google it up ,there's plenty of info out there. T.

    Bookmark   October 31, 2010 at 3:47AM
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dcsteg(5 Shawnee, KS.)

Nokie,

As simple as this...full sun in Summer...full shade in Winter.

By the way...nice Chief you got there. One that I wouldn't pass up.

Dave

    Bookmark   October 31, 2010 at 8:17AM
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ykli(Z8 FRANCE)

Nice small tree. Looks like a small bonsai.

Last Winter, I left mine in the same place for winter, quite sunny in the cold season. The needles didn't burn. I'n in Z8.

@Tunilla : I'll try to look for a discount for my next purchase at Vallonchene ;-)
May be this may interest you : They have found a Green Prince Cedar for me. I'll get it in december or most probably i'll go to fetch it at the end on winter.

--
Philippe

    Bookmark   October 31, 2010 at 12:12PM
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dcsteg(5 Shawnee, KS.)

I should have added...it works for me. I was given the shade tip for winter by a friend who grows this beautiful conifer. I burnt my first one up in full winter sun.

It never fails, there is always some one who does just to opposite with never any issues but France is a hell of a long way from Kansas City with a lot going on in between. It is always good to get everyone's opinion and ykli has great success in full winter sun...something to think about.

Micro climate has a lot to do with burning issues along with the under stock it is grafted on in my opinion. Noki you will just have to find out what works for you. I personally would give it winter shade to be on safe side while it is acclimating.

Good luck,

Dave

    Bookmark   October 31, 2010 at 12:33PM
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ykli(Z8 FRANCE)

I left mine because ... I didn't know about it. Il was its first winter with us.
I'll move it in a more in a more shady place, and it happens that it is in front of the living room.
I'll give it a try.
--
Philippe

    Bookmark   October 31, 2010 at 1:00PM
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tunilla

And the climate near Paris is quite different from ours in the lower Alps. The nurseryman told me they graft this on Pinus sylvestris,but with a very low succes rate (only one in five will take).Given that P. sylvestris grows wild and well over here, I'm hopefull!
I forget what the commonly used understock is elsewhere,but it may be important,depending on your climate.T.

    Bookmark   October 31, 2010 at 1:02PM
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jaro_in_montreal

No problem with winter sun here in Montreal, after several years....

....other species are far more sensitve -- such as Taxus baccata.

My Chief is just starting to turn yellow -- first snow here today.

    Bookmark   October 31, 2010 at 7:47PM
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noki

Thanks, I planted the tree, won't get much sun during winter. Only about 9"/22cm high.

    Bookmark   November 1, 2010 at 12:21AM
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noki

Well, doesn't look so great now. Hopefully some of the buds are still alive, but the needles have turned khaki brown the last couple weeks except on one part. Should I be hopeful?

    Bookmark   April 17, 2011 at 1:04AM
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deltaohio

I took this picture of Chief Joseph a couple months ago at Hidden Lake Michigan.

Frank

    Bookmark   April 17, 2011 at 8:24AM
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dcsteg(5 Shawnee, KS.)

"Should I be hopeful"?

Probably not but leave it and see where it's going.

I would bet money, marbles or chalk it's grafted on sylvestris under stock.

Dave

    Bookmark   April 17, 2011 at 8:35AM
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ken_adrian Adrian MI cold Z5

hey frank

any recollection on which side the burlap is .. i see the lathe house ... which is on the east side of the collection ... but it is baffling me.. that the shade is on the SE side??? .. contrary to prevailing winds ...

ken

    Bookmark   April 17, 2011 at 8:36AM
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deltaohio

You are correct Ken, the burlap is on the South side. Wind really isn't a problem where it is located.

Frank

    Bookmark   April 17, 2011 at 9:00AM
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whaas_5a(5A SE WI)

Guys, does this "shaded from the winter sun" apply to most golden pines or does it really depend on the cultivar?

I got that Pinus mugo 'Aurea Fastigiata' that will get plenty winter sun.

    Bookmark   April 17, 2011 at 9:09AM
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oakiris

As simple as this...full sun in Summer...full shade in Winter.
How in the world do you manage that?? So you get this cultivar that is supposed to be absolutely stunning in the winter but you have to put it under a barrel (exaggeration) so it doesn't get any sun in the winter, so you never get to actually see it?!?

Seriously, though, so you have to put up a shade cloth canopy in the wintertime, and then take it down in the spring? I take it this is for its lifetime, not just while it is getting established?

I just got a very small seedling from Coenosium Gardens. I of course planted it in full sun, where it will also get full sun in the wintertime. Foolishly, I didn't consider the fact that, as a yellow needled conifer in the winter, it might need protection from the sun - somehow I had it in my mind that it was the summer sun that was a problem for yellow needled conifers, and since this cultivar was green during the summer....

Apparently I didn't do enough research; until this thread was revived, I hadn't read that 'Chief Joseph' needed to be fully protected from winter sun. That will be easy enough to do now, while it is tiny, but as it grows older and bigger.....(imagining using a crane to raise and lower a shade cloth shed over the fully mature specimen as the seasons turn. :-D )

noki - so sorry to see what has become of your 'Chief Joseph' - and you had planted where it only got minimal winter sun, too.

I would bet money, marbles or chalk it's grafted on sylvestris under stock.
Dave - what is the problem with Pinus sylvestris under stock? I thought that sylvestris was a widely used under stock, but then, I have never grafted anything and I am certainly a newbie; misinformation seems to come my way!

Holly

    Bookmark   April 17, 2011 at 2:17PM
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jaro_in_montreal

Planted my Chief Joseph back in 2006.

Never any problem, never any protection from winter sun (although in the first couple of years, it was mostly buried in snow during winter).

Putting on a particularly great show right now -- just barely beginning to turn from yellow to green, from bottom up....

    Bookmark   April 17, 2011 at 3:57PM
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noki

Really, it looked okay a month ago... maybe a bit tired looking, but yellow. Definitely looking dead now except for three buds off of one branch. Bummer.

    Bookmark   April 17, 2011 at 4:39PM
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monkeytreeboy15(Zone 7b/8a)

'Chief Joseph' is actually a lodgepole pine (Pinus contorta var. latifolia). Too often it is grafted onto Shore Pine (Pinus contorta var. contorta), causing it to burn in the winter.
The amount of sun the plant receives in the winter does not determine the burning, it simply has to do with what understock was used. If you buy a plant from Coenosium Gardens, it will not burn in the winter because they graft their plants onto Pinus contorta var. latifolia understock, which is more compatible with 'Chief Joseph' himself.

-Sam

    Bookmark   April 17, 2011 at 6:37PM
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jaro_in_montreal

Very interesting Sam ! ...thanks !

I think mine is originally from Greer Gardens -- but by the looks of it, probably the same understock as Coenosium's (no winter burn).

    Bookmark   April 17, 2011 at 7:14PM
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dcsteg(5 Shawnee, KS.)

oakiris

"I would bet money, marbles or chalk it's grafted on sylvestris under stock".

monkeytreeboy15 has covered that question fairly well and I won't go there.

"As simple as this...full sun in Summer...full shade in Winter.
How in the world do you manage that"??

Simple...From November to March the sun angel is low in the south. This Chief is planted 17 ft. from the house on the north side and the sun never sees this area in winter. A Coenosium grafted conifer that has never burned.

I posted a photo so you can see location and why the sun rays never get high enough to get over the top of the house.Right now the color is reverting back to green and should be all in in a month.

Dave

    Bookmark   April 17, 2011 at 7:48PM
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oakiris

Thank you, Sam and Dave. I understand now about the importance of the under stock that was used and about shade in the winter.

I do not have the luxury of locating my 'Chief Joseph' so that it gets summer sun and winter shade, as you were able to, Dave. Very cool that you could site yours that way. (Besides which, I am sure we get more sun in Colorado than you do, (j/k - no idea where you live) and my house is only one story.)

Even though my 'Chief Joseph' came from Coenosium and thus has the right under stock, I may see about putting up some protection this winter, just in case; the sunlight here is definitely more intense than that in the PNW where it was "born" and a good snow cover in the Denver metro area, where I live, is unlikely. It may appreciate some protection from our dry winter winds, as well. I hope I can forgo this extra care when the tree gets older, but I certainly want to ensure its survival until then.

Holly

    Bookmark   April 17, 2011 at 11:30PM
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