Need a Rose ID

shootingstar2(zone 3/4)November 7, 2007

Hi all,

I have a few roses from this springs plant that are/were mislabeled. Sure would be nice to get the correct ID.

Here is the first one, it was sold as Morden Ruby but not even one of the blooms has the mottled markings that Ruby has.

I can't say it took off first year. Seemed to want to pout and take it's time settling in. The leaves seem quite a bit smaller than many of the other morden's. The bloom was quite good for the delayed spring flush then nothing really at all for the rest of the season. Bloomed in quite large clusters.

can anyone suggest a name for this fellow

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thanks in advance

Cathy

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sierra_z2b

Hi Cathy, I am wondering if this is Morden Cardenette? It blooms in clusters.

I now have two of them.....because the one I bought this spring was also mislabeled...and turned out to Morden Cardenette. The first one I bought intentionally.

Sierra

    Bookmark   November 7, 2007 at 11:33AM
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shootingstar2(zone 3/4)

Sierra,

Are you saying that you bought a Ruby that turned out to be Cardinette? We would certainly be on to something if that were the case.

This one came from Walmart ( I know...I know...) but I had a large space to fill and wanted Mordens & Explorers. They were in those tall square containers with lids and were marked "own root". I bought quite a few of them and all but 2 were true to name.

I was thinking it might be Champlain but cardinette is a real possibility as well. For some reason I thought Cardinette was an orange-ey red.

The other questionable one was labeled Winnipeg Parks, I really do like this one and it seems to fit most of the description except that the blooms don't really "fade to pink" which WP is supposed to do, they stay red.

Just trying to get proper names on these 2 so hopefully I don't re-buy something I already have but have under the wrong name.

cathy

    Bookmark   November 7, 2007 at 1:37PM
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northspruce(z3a MB CDA)

I'm not that familiar with Morden Cardinette, but Champlain is also a possibility. My Champlain had that white haze at the centres of the petals too, and also the little point on the end of the petals. Your picture looks a bit purplish for Champlain but it could be your camera. Mine had fairly thin stems and was a little floppy.

    Bookmark   November 7, 2007 at 2:13PM
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Crazy_Gardener(Z2b AB Canada)

It looks like Adelaide Hoodless, if it grows tall in the next few years, its probaly so.

Sharon

    Bookmark   November 7, 2007 at 3:44PM
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sierra_z2b

Hmmmmmm, I bought mine in a two or five gallon pot, at Walmart. So they did come from the same place. I don't think it matters where you buy your roses.....you will still get some that will be mislabeled.

This is the one I bought as Cardinette two years ago.

This one I bought several years ago....it was labeled Henry Kelsey.

I haven't got that far in sorting through this years pics to see what rose pics I took...

Sierra

    Bookmark   November 7, 2007 at 4:28PM
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valleyrimgirl(2b)

I bought this 'Morden Fireglow' at Jeffrey's Nursery in Portage a few years ago. I did not know until this summer that it was labelled incorrectly. It suckers and opens just like a wild rose, in that the petals fall quickly. I am wondering whether it is not a wild root of some sort. I will be digging it out and replacing it with a real Morden Fireglow. I think I have the original tag and receipt yet. We'll see what they will do. I know that I bought the Wineberry Candy daylily from them and it is a very twisted misshapen tissue cultured daylily. I just need to bring the receipt into them and even though it was a few years ago they said they will make good on it.

I love my Morden Ruby. The Ruby is known to have the ability to mottle, but not necessarily does it have to. Mine does not.

Can you take the roses back? Do you have your receipt yet?

Brenda

    Bookmark   November 7, 2007 at 5:04PM
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marciaz3 Tropical 3 Northwestern Ontario

Here's my Champlain - he does look similar to yours, Cathy.

    Bookmark   November 7, 2007 at 10:28PM
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shootingstar2(zone 3/4)

Wow thanks everyone for all the help.

Northspruce
The stems on mine are indeed quite thin but he is not floppy, at least not yet, he is still pretty small. I did notice recently however that the stems have gone quite reddish now this late in the year.

Sharon,
Adelaide Hoodless is one I have on my list so that wouldn't be a bad thing I suppose. This fellow has not shown much for viggor so can't see him getting big but that may change next spring.

Brenda,
I'm not worried about taking it back. I am only trying to get correct id's so that I don't re-buy something I already have but don't know it, as I have it under the wrong name.

Marcia,
yours does look alot like mine, at least it is showing the darker stamens. The leaves look much larger than the ones on mine, and I don't remember the new growth being reddish either. Maybe it is too early to try and get an id as it really did seem to just sit there and only had one flush of bloom. Perhaps it will perform better next year and I'll have more to work with in trying to figure out it's name. Did you get last nights snow??? Uugh...looks like winter is here.

Cathy

    Bookmark   November 8, 2007 at 9:13AM
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marciaz3 Tropical 3 Northwestern Ontario

Cathy, that picture was taken in July. His canes are quite reddish now. He was a really pleasant surprise because i didn't realize the canes would be so long. Just reread what your post and you said there was only one flush of bloom. My guy bloomed in July and then again later on - September, maybe. I'll have to check.

Where are you? We did get some snow, but only about half an inch and it will probably disappear over the next couple of days. I'm sure it won't be long, though.

    Bookmark   November 8, 2007 at 1:17PM
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shootingstar2(zone 3/4)

Marcia,

I'm in Thunder Bay. Where 'bouts are u?

Maybe mine will bloom better next year, he really did pout this year, but then he was new so I suppose he is allowed to pout a bit. For some reason the leaf cutter bees liked this rose better than any other in the yard. Actually sat and watched them one day...very interesting.

I sure hope the snow disappears, on the Thanksgiving weekend my hubby had an aneurysm rupture in his brain and we were flown to Winnipeg for surgery. I guess we had an angel in our pocket as he is going to be just fine in time, but we just got back a week or so ago and the garden looks like crap....I haven't even started winter protection and woke up this morning to the white stuff. It better melt so I can get the chores done...lol... if not well the roses are just going to have to fend for themselves for one winter...

Cathy

    Bookmark   November 8, 2007 at 3:48PM
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marciaz3 Tropical 3 Northwestern Ontario

Hi Cathy - i'm between Dryden and Kenora but my parents live in Thunder Bay. You'll have to come to our annual spring nursery run the last weekend in April. I go up for my dad's concert (Fort William Male Choir) and some Thunder Bay forum friends and i go and visit a few nurseries on Saturday afternoon. We see how restrained we can be. LOL

Glad to hear that your husband will be okay - he's a lucky guy! It's supposed to be pretty mild here over the weekend, so with any luck, you'll have it too and can get your chores done. I just have to do my rose protection and rake some leaves onto parts of some beds. I sure don't have enough of them this year. All my leaf deals seem to have fallen through!

    Bookmark   November 8, 2007 at 10:58PM
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valleyrimgirl(2b)

Marcia, if you drive out to our place you can have all the leaves you wish. You rake them, you can have them. My DH only had time this fall to pick up the leaves with the lawn sweeper off the main lawn, not all through the orchard and side yard. We have 10 acres, so there should be one or two huge trailer fulls here yet for you if you wish. Of course, it will take you about 1/2 a day to drive here wouldn't it?

Brenda

    Bookmark   November 9, 2007 at 8:46AM
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sazzyrose(2b Sk)

Cathy, with red roses it is really hard to tell the difference in pictures. My camera pulls out different colors than other cameras. But because of the way it acted,(with a nice spring flush and nothing really after) my guess would be Adelaide Hoodless right now. I have 7 of AH and that is the way they all act. A big bang and then really nothing.

The flowers of Champlain and Adelaide Hoodless are alot alike as well. But the bush form is different. Adelaide Hoodless gets quite lanky and needs to be tied up to support the weight of the flowers. While Champlain bush stays nice.So in the next year or so, you'll be able to tell by the bush form which of these two it is.

Nicolas flowers are also alot the same with the exception of a bit of orange overtones in the red.I doubt whether it is this one though because this one is not in circulation as much. I rarely ever see it.

One thing that all of you might find interesting is: The other month, I was at a gardening meeting with the topic roses and peonies. Brian Porter did a presentation and he said that Morden Cardinette never fully opens and balls worse than Morden Fireglow. He showed us pictures of the real Morden Cardinette and I must say, my MC are most likely Champlain. The flowers look nothing like the real MC.
No wonder these two roses of mine looked so much alike.

And after seeing everyones pictures of their Morden Cardinette bushes over the years, I think that we all have the same rose.

Shelley

    Bookmark   November 9, 2007 at 6:20PM
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northspruce(z3a MB CDA)

I had another thought, my Champlain was never without blooms, all summer. Shelley's likely right about Adelaide Hoodless, she knows her roses!

    Bookmark   November 10, 2007 at 10:52AM
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shootingstar2(zone 3/4)

Marcia,
A greenhouse crawl in the spring would be fun, just let me know.

Shelly,
Yes the next year or two will give me the answer. I agree with your comments on reds being hard to capture in photo's, especially for ID purposes. I was wanting to add Adelaide anyway so maybe I already have her...lol. I planted an Adelaide Hoodless at my parents 2 yrs ago. Next spring when it blooms I will have to cut some and compare them side to side.

thanks everyone for all the help.

Cathy

    Bookmark   November 10, 2007 at 11:13AM
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marciaz3 Tropical 3 Northwestern Ontario

Brenda, how about thanks but no thanks? :) If you wanted to rake them up and put them on the bus, by all means - i'll pay the fare! LOL

I filled up the boxes around the roses today and have my fingers crossed for not much die back next spring. I hope we get lots of snow as well for protection. Last winter was pretty hard on my roses.

Cathy, usually in April i start a thread saying when i'll be in Thunder Bay. Will i be able to email you through your profile if you aren't around here? Most of the people i meet don't post much anymore, but i contact them through email if they don't answer my thread.

    Bookmark   November 10, 2007 at 4:58PM
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shootingstar2(zone 3/4)

Marcia,

I should be around in April and will hopefully see the thread.

I can receive email through the site and have also sent you an email with my direct contact.

thx
Cathy

    Bookmark   November 12, 2007 at 8:38AM
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