green arrow with wings

ken_adrian Adrian MI cold Z5December 15, 2011

Chamaecyparis nootkatensis 'Green Arrow'

many peeps prune their specimens for a single straight leadered tree ...

i left mine with wings.. simply to see how it developed ...

ken

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Embothrium(USDA 8 Sunset 5 WA)

That's how it supposed to look, I would never amputate the arms. If someone wants that, they should buy a statue of Venus.

    Bookmark   December 15, 2011 at 11:12AM
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whaas_5a(5A SE WI)

In some case folks to plant it due to space constraints. In Ken's case, I'd agree it looks great as is.

Ken, did you give it a drink of red bull?

    Bookmark   December 15, 2011 at 11:14AM
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Embothrium(USDA 8 Sunset 5 WA)

...so space still is likely to needed for a much larger specimen in time - lopping half of the newly planted tree away, to produce a freakishly abbreviated initial shape will not prevent the development of a big plant.

Side branches are also apt to appear later, higher up.

The similar Van Den Akker clone of 'Pendula' is known over 70' tall here.

    Bookmark   December 15, 2011 at 11:22AM
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ricksample(6)

I think it looks great! As soon as I get mine, I plan to leave the wings attached... it adds a lot of character. Those that trim the wings off should really go for a different Chamaecyparis such as Van Den Akker or Strickt Weeper.

    Bookmark   December 15, 2011 at 11:45AM
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olypen

Add my vote to the 'it looks great/has a lot of character' side.

Bill

    Bookmark   December 15, 2011 at 12:34PM
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Embothrium(USDA 8 Sunset 5 WA)

The Van Den Akker form is, if anything less pendulous than 'Green Arrow' - if the specimen shown here is correctly identified and representative, with its down-pulled looking branchlets. Multiple similar drooping forms are seen on the market here, I doubt all the identifications have been kept straight by everyone producing them - that would be atypical.

    Bookmark   December 15, 2011 at 12:50PM
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blue_yew(Z9 Devon UK)

Interesting plant.

    Bookmark   December 15, 2011 at 5:08PM
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coniferjoy(z7 The Netherlands)

Very nice and healthy specimen Ken!
The one I've never made such "arms" like your's

Rick, it's 'Vandenakker' instead of Van Den Akker'
also it's 'Strict Weeping' instaed of 'Strickt Weeper'
I hope that I helped you with this info :0)

Ron, I keep them all straight...

    Bookmark   December 15, 2011 at 5:17PM
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gardener365(5b Illinois USA)

I've never seen Vandenakker as one word.

Dax

    Bookmark   December 15, 2011 at 5:55PM
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coniferjoy(z7 The Netherlands)

Dax, you're right, I received it as 'Vandenakker' in the past but found out later that is must bin written as 'Van Den Akker' which is a Dutch last name...
Back in 2004 I saw a very nice and large specimen at Larry Stanley's garden.

I'm wondering if this is the same with the Pinus reflexa 'Vanderwolf's Pyramid'.
In good Dutch it should bin written as 'Van Der Wolf's Pyramid'.

    Bookmark   December 15, 2011 at 6:23PM
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ken_adrian Adrian MI cold Z5

i can not recall.. but i think the wings were on the tiny one gal pot when i got it ...

if you get one.. already pruned to the single leader.. i would suggest.. that it might never get wings ...

ken

    Bookmark   December 15, 2011 at 6:40PM
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ladylotus(Z3/4 ND)

What a beautiful specimen. Ken you are going to make me go broke here my friend with all the lovelies you are sharing photos of!

Is Chamaecyparis nootkatensis 'Green Arrow' hardy to zone 3 or 4 do you think? I suspect if it is hardy my problem might be the heavy snow breaking down the delicate leader eh? What do you all think...will it fit into my gardens?

    Bookmark   December 15, 2011 at 10:57PM
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sluice

Good choice, it looks great!

    Bookmark   December 16, 2011 at 1:13AM
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ken_adrian Adrian MI cold Z5

i am a lifetime z5'er .... so no clue on your zone..

but do you have any other cham nootka.. or whatever its name is this week???

i get your snow and then maybe more .. and repeated ice storms ..... the droopy leader is not affected ... its one of those plants where the leader is always drooping.. and you wonder how it grows upright ... and snow doesnst stick to the lower branches ..

ya know.. you dont have to put every plant on your 'to die for list' .. just because i post a pic ... lol ..

ken

    Bookmark   December 16, 2011 at 8:46AM
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tsugajunkie z5 SE WI

The wings are certainly part of their charm. And as Ron said, they can get wings higher up in time. You can see it starting on at the Harper's collection.

Seems to me there was one at Bickelhaupt with about a 12-15 foot wingspan. Dax may have a pic.

My 9-10 footer looked like this in summer.

I have also noticed that some get a slight bluish tint while others may not.

tj

    Bookmark   December 16, 2011 at 2:31PM
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bernd ny zone5

My 'Strict Weeping' had problems this summer to get started and had its larger wing (3 ft up) dry up, I cut that off. The 6 ft tree is growing nicely now and has smaller horizontal shoots at ground level, perhaps future new wings.
Bernd

    Bookmark   December 16, 2011 at 3:04PM
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dcsteg(5 Shawnee, KS.)

I had a 'Strict Weeper' that was almost identical to your 'Green Arrow' Ken. It had a strong basal skirt. In fact it's still posted on the Gymnosperms photo gallery-UBC Botanical Garden Forms.

This is my 'Green Arrow'.

Planted 4 years ago. It really took off this year. It grew about a foot and branches are now becoming more pendulous.

Cupressus n.'Green Arrow'

I also have two 'Van Den Akker'. One with normal green foliage the other with blue/green foliage.

Dave

    Bookmark   December 16, 2011 at 5:52PM
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katsura_grower

This is an interesting thread. The removal of lower branching is obviously driven by ones taste and the space in which it is to grow. It is my observation that Van den Akkers grown from cuttings exhibit very many bottom branches compared to grafted plants. That said grafted plants do branch out at the base as shown in the photos below.
Van den Akker lower branches pruned:

Van den Akker with lower branching intact:

Van den Akker in garden setting

Green Arrow

Green Arrow -this is a clone grown by an east coast grower. Once when talking to him I mentioned that I thought he had the nicest clone of Green Arrow i'd ever seen. He smiled and said that when Talon had visited he had made the same comment. It may not be Green Arrow. It could possibly be Pacific Arrow which has a similar look.

An unnamed clone found by Jim Boyko. Very similar to Sparkling Arrow but(according to Jim) with a slight greenish tinge on the variegated tips.

Last one- Snowpark reputed to not grow "wings" (unpruned)

john

    Bookmark   December 16, 2011 at 7:13PM
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ladylotus(Z3/4 ND)

Ken, Oh no worries, I've eliminated all the shelter belt looking trees from my list that you post photos of. LOL Now THAT is shear will power you must agree. I do not have any Chamaecyparis nootkatensis types growing in my gardens. Too bad there is not anyone in this cold zone that grows conifers so that I can see what they are getting to survive instead of always being the guinea pig. UGH!

Kat, boy that unnamed clone found by Jim Boyko is going to be a gorgeous looking plant. Will he be naming this plant and placing it on the market?

    Bookmark   December 16, 2011 at 9:48PM
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wisconsitom

"Wings"? "Arms"? I had to check if I was in the right forum. I just see branches.

;^)

+oM

    Bookmark   December 16, 2011 at 10:05PM
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katsura_grower

I'm not sure. It is almost the same as Sparkling Arrow from Buchholz. Jim will have to decide if it is different enough to warrant introduction.
john

    Bookmark   December 16, 2011 at 10:08PM
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whaas_5a(5A SE WI)

Stellar habit on the grouping of three clones.

    Bookmark   December 16, 2011 at 10:27PM
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gardener365(5b Illinois USA)

First time I've seen Jim's variegated tree. I've heard about it, however. Thanks John for sharing.

John where did 'Snowpark' come from? That's a new one to me. And the one(s) from the east coast grower are very choice I must say.

This is a 'Moonstruck' I saw while visiting Dave Horst's garden in Iowa this summer. A Joe Stupka selection and Joe used to visit Dave all the time and most of the plants at Dave's place are derivatives from Joe.

TJ: I do have a photo of the Bickelhaupt 'Green Arrow':

Dax

    Bookmark   December 16, 2011 at 10:38PM
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abciximab(7b/8)

I thought the Joe Stupka selection was called 'Moonshot'?

    Bookmark   December 17, 2011 at 1:10AM
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coniferjoy(z7 The Netherlands)

'Moonshot' is also the cultivar name which I had in mind for Joe's selection...

    Bookmark   December 17, 2011 at 2:52AM
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gardener365(5b Illinois USA)

Error on my part. Dax

    Bookmark   December 17, 2011 at 9:04AM
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ladylotus(Z3/4 ND)

Dax, wow...you know Dave H too? I've visited his gardens too. I like Moonshot, it is a little wider than I would care for, but I did not find any gold or variegated coloring in that one. Did you?

Did he take you to his plant Little Davie? He is so proud of that plant. He is a very nice guy. Sadly, I had forgotten my camera the last time I was there and could not get photos of his gardens. So it was a nice reminder to see your photo.

    Bookmark   December 17, 2011 at 10:36AM
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jth97381

Jim Boyko's new plant is called 'Boyko's Glitter Falls', it is different then sparkling arrow. Variegation is different, and they both come from sports of different weeping trees.

    Bookmark   December 17, 2011 at 10:54AM
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coniferjoy(z7 The Netherlands)

'Sparkling Arrow' derives as a mutation from 'Green Arrow'.

From which weeping form derives the 'Boyko's Glitter Falls' which is a very nice cultivar name IMHO...

    Bookmark   December 17, 2011 at 11:25AM
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gardener365(5b Illinois USA)

Yep, Lady, it's a small world around here.
Here's a link to my photos of Dave's garden. I also visited Randy Dykstra's garden that same day and those photos can be found on the Gallery pages of this forum. I assume you're speaking of Pinus mugo 'Dave's Choice'? It's a dandy, and one of the many from mugo 'Mops'. I have a graft here that's three to four years old.

Edwin- if someone doesn't chime in regarding your question, I'll have the answer soon.

Dax

    Bookmark   December 17, 2011 at 3:06PM
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jth97381

Jim Boyko's new plant is called 'Boyko's Glitter Falls', it is different then sparkling arrow. Variegation is different, and they both come from sports of different weeping trees.

    Bookmark   December 17, 2011 at 3:18PM
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gardener365(5b Illinois USA)

This is the ortet/mother tree of 'Boyko's Glitter Falls'. It's labeled as 'Aurea' but Jason Hupp who photographed it said this tree is green & he said Jim also doesn't know if or what cultivar of nootka this really, is. So it's a mystery or at best a guessing game.

Cupressus nootkatensis 'Boyko's Glitter Falls' ortet tree. Jason said this tree is butchered each year for scionwood so the the shape is distorted. Jason Hupp named this tree for Jim Boyko because it's rare for Jim to put names on his trees or he doesn't even name them at all.

Dax

    Bookmark   December 17, 2011 at 3:41PM
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coniferjoy(z7 The Netherlands)

Dax, thanks for this info.
Indeed, an 'Aurea' does have a yellow colour but doesn't have a weeping apparence, so this is never possible.

It's strange that nobody else here isn't familiar with Jim's finding.
Will (ffg), didn't you see it when you visited him?

    Bookmark   December 17, 2011 at 4:09PM
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whaas_5a(5A SE WI)

Perhaps butchered, but that 'Boyko's Glitter Falls' sure is a beauty!

    Bookmark   December 17, 2011 at 9:30PM
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mrgpag

Katsura - in your first two images - any idea what the tall plant with short laterals is in the background near the building?
Marshall

    Bookmark   December 20, 2011 at 5:22PM
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ken_adrian Adrian MI cold Z5

all the variegated cham nootkas ... in my z5 ...

grow like green weeds .... wherin the variegation burns completely off every winter ..

i doubt if you will get a glitter falls anywhere but the PNW .... definitely not the GWN .... great white north ..

IMHO

ken

    Bookmark   December 20, 2011 at 7:21PM
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katsura_grower

Marshall, That is a very narrow specimen of the tree commonly sold as Cedrus libani Pendula by west coast nurseries. I believe though that it is possibly a Cedrus deodara clone?
john

    Bookmark   December 20, 2011 at 7:26PM
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firefightergardener(7/8)

Heya Edwin,

I have seen 'Boyko's Glitter Falls' during my visits to Jim's nursery. It's a great plant. He's still not selling it though, as far as I know.

His 'Boyko's Sundown' however is more common and not less awesome of a tree, in my opinion.

Very bright.

A few more photos I can add.
'Glauca Pendula'. Pretty neat form and color.

'Moonshot'. No staking, no pruning. In my opinion the most narrow I've seen.

'Green Arrow' with a wild arm lopped off at the bottom.

I can share more young specimens if people want to see them.
-Will

    Bookmark   December 20, 2011 at 7:42PM
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sluice

Go for it Will.

I'm a fan of the alaskans.

    Bookmark   December 21, 2011 at 12:08AM
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mrgpag

I'd be interested in seeing some personal images of Strict Weeping if anyone has such -especially specimens 6-8 feet tall or more. And is it true what was mentioned earlier that this selection doesn't produce wings/arms similar to Green Arrow.

Marshall

    Bookmark   January 27, 2012 at 8:14PM
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dcsteg(5 Shawnee, KS.)

Marshall,

Here's 3 photos of mine posted at the UBC Botanical Garden Forms. A 4 year old composite of 3 photos. Click images for a larger photo.

"doesn't produce wings/arms similar to Green Arrow."

Only at the bottom. The rest is as mentioned strict weeping.

Dave

Here is a link that might be useful: Cupressus n 'Strict Weeper'

    Bookmark   January 27, 2012 at 10:13PM
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mrgpag

Thanks Dave - after I requested images, I did a search here in GW and found that link. Also found another thread specifically about Strict Weeping with a few images. I'm trying to decide between Green Arrow and Strict Weeping for a project at the arboretum. We want to plant a group of three near a tower we're in the process of raising. Looks like Iseli will be the source for some 8 footers.

    Bookmark   January 27, 2012 at 10:33PM
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coniferjoy(z7 The Netherlands)

Here's also one.
Pic was taken in a Dutch Conifer Society member's garden.
Without any side arms...

    Bookmark   January 28, 2012 at 2:28AM
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dcsteg(5 Shawnee, KS.)

"Looks like Iseli will be the source for some 8 footers."

If you go 8 footers from Iseli they will be b&b and weigh a ton.

That is where the one shown in the photos came from. Also a 8 footer. It was fine the first year. Then began a slow decline with yellowing and dropping of branches. Reached the stage where I had to remove it. On inspection of the root ball there was not a sign of any new growth. It just set there and died or chances are it was dead when I planted it.

I hope you have better luck with yours.

Dave

    Bookmark   January 28, 2012 at 6:21AM
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mrgpag

Dave - Seems to me I remember you talking about your plants demise. Weight is no problem as we have resources to handle that. I would prefer something smaller and container grown. Iseli has what they call a #6 which I relate to a 6gallon pot but that may not be the case - will talk to them Monday. The staff wants something dramatic right off the bat - that's why the eight footers were considered.
Joy - that's one interesting plant which I personally have just the right spot for here at home - thanks for the image.

    Bookmark   January 28, 2012 at 12:57PM
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abciximab(7b/8)

I had the same problem with a 8-9ft 'Strict Weeping' from Iseli. It was planted as B&B and looked good for about 1.5 years then slowly began to have yellow branches and slowly died last spring. After removing the tree, I too discovered NO new root growth. I also experienced the same demise of a 'Jubilee' from Iseli. I've replanted since with smaller trees from a different source and have not had any issues.

Patrick

    Bookmark   January 28, 2012 at 9:41PM
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mrgpag

Looks like Patrick and Dave gave me some ammo to shot down B&B 8footers - thanks
Marshall

    Bookmark   January 28, 2012 at 10:28PM
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abciximab(7b/8)

I don't think it's an Iseli issue. B&B transplants of LARGER C. nootkatensis specimens havn't responded well in my garden. I planted a smaller potted (I think #6) 'Pendula' from Iseli several years ago that has done well.

    Bookmark   January 29, 2012 at 9:24AM
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dcsteg(5 Shawnee, KS.)

Yep, Iseli is not the problem but one of the few wholesale nursery's that offers Cupressus c. in that size.

When they arrive at the nursery if b&b, they should be up potted immediately. If implemented the rate of survival goes up considerably. I bought a end of the year 'Van Den Akker' nursery sale that was b&b and up potted. It had all ready put on new root growth when pulled from the pot. It has never dropped foliage or yellowed.

I thought it strange that the ACS has yet to make the name change from Chamaecyparis to Cupressus. For that matter not to many others have either. UBC has. In my opinion one of the best run forums out there.

Dave

    Bookmark   January 29, 2012 at 11:17AM
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mrgpag

abciximab/Patrick - do you recall how tall your smaller potted 'Pendula' was when you planted it?

I agree that if the larger B&B plants were changed over to a container and afforded all the care that nurseries would normally provide - root growth should proceed much better than if planted out into the soil. But how many retail consumers are aware of this situation - not many I would bet.

Anyway - my situation needs something in the ground this coming late spring, not next fall or the following spring. Maybe tomorrow I'll have a better idea of just what Iseli has to offer. And the reason for Iseli is we can add our order to one of numerous retailers here in the area that get Iseli shipments in the spring
Thanks for the comments folks
Marshall

    Bookmark   January 29, 2012 at 7:57PM
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