Identify these two incredibly rare fir trees

monkeytreeboy15(Zone 7b/8a)December 5, 2011

Hello, everyone. I need some help identifying these uncommon Abies species The first tree I received as Abies squamata, and I am doubting its authenticity. Please either confirm or deny the allegations of its "squamata-hood."

beginnings of flaky bark?

a close-up of the buds and quite sharp needles..

a branch:

a close-up of the needles and branchlets:

the undersides of the needles:

This final fir tree was purchased as Abies gamblei which I have also seen listed as Abies pindrow var. brevifolia. In my opinion, the tree does not resemble Abies pindrow that closely, and I believe it should be classified as its own species. Please let me know what you think this fir tree may be.

the whole tree:

a close-up of the buds: quite resinous

the twigs are quite orange and the needles are the darkest green I have seen on a fir tree.

The needles have very prominent white bands on the undersides of the thick, dark green, blunt-tipped needles:

Thank you for your help in identifying these special trees.

-Sam

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clement_2006

The first are probably Abies ernestii or maybe recurvata
The 2 th are from delavay group, maybe forrestii.


Abies gamblei
Clement

    Bookmark   December 5, 2011 at 4:48PM
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pineresin

I'm thinking Abies holophylla for the first.

Agree A. forrestii for the second.

Clément's A. gamblei is correctly labelled, and shows nicely just how distinct it is.

Resin

    Bookmark   December 5, 2011 at 7:56PM
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whaas_5a(5A SE WI)

Sam, how do you obtain such incredible specimens at such an incredibly young age?

    Bookmark   December 5, 2011 at 8:57PM
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monkeytreeboy15(Zone 7b/8a)

Thank you Resin and Clement for your wisdom regarding these firs. Does Abies forrestii have orange twigs and resinous buds typically?

These two trees came from Don Howse at Porterhowse Farms, and he receives most of his plants from R & R Nursery, his wholesale sister nursery.
His nursery/pinetum are very nice to tour. If you ever find yourself out in Oregon, you should make certain to visit. You will find yourself leaving with several plants as well!

-Sam

    Bookmark   December 5, 2011 at 10:13PM
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clement_2006

No, NO, not holophylla.
Here is Abies holophylla


Abies holophylla.
Clement

    Bookmark   December 6, 2011 at 6:21AM
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monkeytreeboy15(Zone 7b/8a)

Do either of you Clement or Resin, have pictures of Abies squamata for comparison?

Thank you.

-Sam

    Bookmark   December 6, 2011 at 10:57AM
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clement_2006

Yes, in the next days.
Clement

    Bookmark   December 6, 2011 at 12:03PM
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monkeytreeboy15(Zone 7b/8a)

Thanks, Clement.
Is it possible that the second one is Abies georgei? or is this the same as forrestii?

-Sam

    Bookmark   December 6, 2011 at 12:13PM
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pineresin

"Is it possible that the second one is Abies georgei? or is this the same as forrestii?"

Virtually the same - georgei is just a higher altitude variant of forrestii with pubescent shoots. Best treated as Abies forrestii var. georgei.

Resin

    Bookmark   December 6, 2011 at 6:16PM
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clement_2006

Today, between strong wind, rain or sun, I photographied my Abies squamata :




I don' understand how is possible to mix this species so typical, needles bluish with many stomats, colour of the twigs, trunk !!!! at young age !
I don't understand.
Clement

    Bookmark   December 7, 2011 at 12:18PM
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whaas_5a(5A SE WI)

That bark is amazing!

    Bookmark   December 7, 2011 at 12:58PM
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monkeytreeboy15(Zone 7b/8a)

Yes, definitely not squamata for the first one.
Thank you for posting your pictures and that beautiful bark! It makes my want for this elusive tree all the greater.

Is it safe to consider the second one Abies forrestii?
Is it var. georgei?

Thank you again!

-Sam

    Bookmark   December 7, 2011 at 1:34PM
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gardener365(5b Illinois USA)

Sam check for pubescence on the youngest wood.

Dax

    Bookmark   December 7, 2011 at 3:03PM
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monkeytreeboy15(Zone 7b/8a)

The youngest wood lacks pubescence. This means that it is likely just Abies forrestii. Thanks for the identification help, everyone!

Should I enter Abies recurvata for the first one in my database?

-Sam

    Bookmark   December 8, 2011 at 2:29AM
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