In 2010 930 U S soldiers were killed

youngquinn_gwJanuary 17, 2013

or committed suicide. That is a shocking waste of life and the families have my sympathy.

In a recent post by Nancy , we are informed that in 2005 over 5000 American children were killed by guns(murder . accidents)

!!!!!!!!!!!!! why is there not more outrage at this horrible statistic?

While the deaths of the soldiers is also tragic , at least they were able to make the choice to risk their lives in warfare.

I will be back with a link to Nancys figures.

Here is a link that might be useful: statistics on soldier deaths

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youngquinn_gw

"In addition, unintentional firearm deaths in the U.S. were more than five times higher than in the other countries. Among these 23 countries, the U.S. accounted for 80 percent of all firearm deaths; 87 percent of all children under 15 killed by firearms were American children. In 2005, 5,285 U.S. children were killed by gunshot compared with 57 in Germany and none in Japan -- a country with some of the toughest gun controls in the world."

from nancy " gun update part 2 " jan 16 0.42 am

    Bookmark   January 17, 2013 at 1:38AM
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tobr24u(z6 RI)

A terrible truth about American culture that maybe is being addressed and redressed...

    Bookmark   January 17, 2013 at 4:40AM
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october17(5chgo)

So incredibly sad that these soldiers are killing themselves.

Did we had suicides in these numbers during/after vietnam?

I know soldiers in vietnam drank, smoked pot and popped some pills. But now, soldiers' access to Rx meds from military "doctors" has to be playing a major role.

    Bookmark   January 17, 2013 at 11:56AM
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marshallz10(z9-10 CA)

Combat drugs had become a serious problem for many. We had a thread on this subject, as I recall. Uppers and downers; what a way to push the limits of soldiers' effectiveness. Then they are demobilized or otherwise end their in-field tenure.

    Bookmark   January 17, 2013 at 12:14PM
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mylab123(z5NW)

Why?

I don't know. I truly wish that I did.

    Bookmark   January 17, 2013 at 1:43PM
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fancifowl(5Pa)

How many babies were killed by abortion? I thought this was all about saving "just 1 child"? More bogus baloney Eh

    Bookmark   January 17, 2013 at 2:28PM
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nancy_in_venice_ca Sunset 24 z10

From January 16, 2013: Pentagon reports record number of suicides

[I don't appreciate the opening sentence implying that there are sufficient programs in place to help service members. There have been many complaints/reports that the programs are criminally under-staffed and totally inadequate to handle the large numbers needing help.] Washington (CNN) -- Despite extensive support and counseling programs, as many as 349 U.S. service members committed suicide last year, which would be the highest number since the Department of Defense began keeping detailed statistics in 2001.

According to the Pentagon, 239 military deaths in 2012 have been confirmed as suicides and another 110 are being investigated as probable suicides. The number of suicides in 2011 reached 301; there were 298 the year before.

The statistics on suicides among service members, many of whom had deployed to war zones, included deaths among reserve forces.

Each branch of the service showed an increase. The Army had by far the highest number of suicides and probable suicides -- 182, a nuvcmber that was up from 166 in 2011. The Navy had 60 suicides in 2012 compared with 52 the year before, followed by the Air Force with 59 (up from 51) and the Marine Corps with 48 (up from 32).

For years, the Pentagon has struggled with how to identify service members at risk for suicide and to provide counseling and other services. The Army and Navy have focused on teaching "resiliency" to troops in hopes of helping them cope with stress. Military experts have long said one of the enduring challenges is that there doesn't appear to be a direct link between suicides and the stress of being in the combat zone.

    Bookmark   January 17, 2013 at 3:07PM
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PRO
Brushworks Spectacular Finishes(5)

Military experts have long said one of the enduring challenges is that there doesn't appear to be a direct link between suicides and the stress of being in the combat zone.

Hmmmmmmmmmmm..if you say so!

But what about repeated deployments? A few months off, and back to the jungle of war again for another year. Same cycle 3, 4, 5 times? Do they think that may be a link?

Instead of utilizing the draft, the defense department has leaned heavily on the reserve component of every armed service branch. Whether many realize it or not, a full time soldier has different priorities and different reasons than those who choose to be a a reserve component soldier.

Many soldiers should not be deployed at all. But....the war must go on. And I predict that in 2014, we will see a major rise in suicides among veterans who return home to disability, a lost family, and no jobs.

    Bookmark   January 17, 2013 at 4:26PM
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nancy_in_venice_ca Sunset 24 z10

Hmmmmmmmmmmm..if you say so!

It was reported several years ago -- around the time of Major Hasan's shooting at Fort Hood -- that suicides were up among the military that had not been deployed to Iraq.

U.S. Army suicides set to hit new high in 2009 [General Peter] Chiarelli cautioned against generalizing about the causes of the suicides, or assuming links to combat stress on forces stretched thin by the wars in Iraq and Afghanistan.

He said the causes were still unclear and noted that roughly a third of the soldiers who took their own lives had never been deployed abroad.

The Army recently revealed that about one in five lower rank soldiers suffered mental health problems like depression...

Chiarelli said the Army was investigating whether stress related to a future deployment could be a factor in the deaths of soldiers yet to be sent abroad.

    Bookmark   January 17, 2013 at 5:04PM
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alexrander

A friend of mine wrote a book and articles on this subject, including "The war comes home, Washington's battle against America's Veterans" I remember Aaron talking about this during the Iraq war many years ago.

snip from Wiki:
Glantz's reporting has been honored with numerous awards, including a 2010 national investigative reporting award from the Society of Professional Journalists for his coverage of veterans' suicides.[12] He has been a Rosalynn Carter Fellow for Mental Health Journalism at the Carter Center,[13] a DART Center Fellow for Journalism and Trauma at Columbia University Journalism School,[14] and a fellow at the Hechinger Institute on Education and the Media and Columbia University Teachers College.[15]
In 2011, the San Francisco Board of Supervisors issued a certificate of honor to Glantz for his "extraordinary efforts as a critically acclaimed author... who through word and deed is saving lives of American veterans."

Here is a link that might be useful: Reporter Aaron Glantz

    Bookmark   January 17, 2013 at 5:52PM
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Brushworks Spectacular Finishes(5)

Nancy,

and someone else believes.....

Repeated tours have driven up the rate of posttraumatic stress disorder, which in turn generates an increase in suicide attempts among those suffering from PTSD. Even though many troops who have killed themselves did not deploy, they trained amid the dread of those who did. There is a sense, some service members say, that suicide � or at least suicide attempts � can be contagious.

    Bookmark   January 17, 2013 at 7:24PM
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youngquinn_gw

I guess these remarks (in the main) prove my point.
with the exception of Richard and FF all posters focussed on the military deaths
.Americans lose 5 times as many children as servicemen annually and yet you focuss on the ADULTS rather than the loss of these chidren sacrificed to your gun culture.

indescribably sad.

    Bookmark   January 17, 2013 at 8:18PM
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nancy_in_venice_ca Sunset 24 z10

No one, child or adult, should be sacrificed to our gun culture.

The children are sacrificed to our domestic gun culture, and the soldiers to our foreign gun policy. I see both losses as being related; disregard for life in foreign policy is reflected in dosmetic policies, and vice versa. Both the adults and the children are expendable in our sick worship of violence and the monetary profits that it brings to a select few.

    Bookmark   January 17, 2013 at 10:08PM
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bill_vincent(Central Maine)

In 2010 930 U S soldiers were killed

On ONE DAY-- June 6, 1944, approximately 2500 Allied troops were killed.

    Bookmark   January 17, 2013 at 11:55PM
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nancy_in_venice_ca Sunset 24 z10

FTA: For the second year in a row, more American soldiers -- both enlisted men and women and veterans -- committed suicide than were killed in the wars in Iraq and Afghanistan. Excluding accidents and illness, 462 soldiers died in combat, while 468 committed suicide. A difference of six isn't vast by any means, but the symbolism is significant and troubling. In 2009, there were 381 suicides by military personnel, a number that also exceeded the number of combat deaths.

    Bookmark   January 18, 2013 at 12:34AM
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youngquinn_gw

and yet those figures are far smaller than those children killed by gun murders and accidents.

Yes it is terrible that military personnel are killed in war and even sadder that they chose to commit suicide in these lage numbers....but at least as you do not have concription each one can make a considere d choice to join the military or not.....I will continue to hammer the point that these 5000 or so children die every year (I am assuming) with no choice as to whether they should live surrounded by guns.

    Bookmark   January 18, 2013 at 1:01AM
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nancy_in_venice_ca Sunset 24 z10

but at least as you do not have conscription each one can make a considere d choice to join the military or not

But we do have the economic draft.

Judging by the rhetoric generated by President Obama's speech on gun control, many of us have little choice as to whether we will be living surrounded by guns -- our neighbors can be amassing a weapons stockpile, legally.

We are becoming an increasingly armed and militarized society.

As far as child victims of guns, the usual suspects will fight against stricter regulations.

    Bookmark   January 18, 2013 at 1:17AM
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youngquinn_gw

Nancy you could chose to emigrate...but the children cant

    Bookmark   January 18, 2013 at 1:29AM
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Brushworks Spectacular Finishes(5)

The Children's Defense Fund has been posting child deaths for a long, long time.

All of a sudden we're paying attention?

How pathetic of us!

Here is a link that might be useful: Key Facts 2013

    Bookmark   January 18, 2013 at 7:31AM
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marshallz10(z9-10 CA)

Sobering statistics, Brush, and a contradiction to the claims that we need to arm up to protect our families.

    Bookmark   January 18, 2013 at 8:23AM
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youngquinn_gw

"the number of children under 5 who died from guns was more than the number of law enforcement officers who died from guns in the line of duty , in2010"
from brush's link.

Not justafiable under any circumstances ...no matter whose rights you disregard.

    Bookmark   January 18, 2013 at 7:42PM
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fancifowl(5Pa)

in 2002 I had 350+or- guns in my home.My neighbor was a NFA collector. That means he collected fully auto machine guns, true assault weapons. No one knew how many, no one felt unsafe. Probably because I wasnt a criminal, maybe because just about everybody has numerous guns in their home.
There are so few burglaries around here I cant remember 1 in 28 years weve lived here.
The point is, its bad guys with guns we should attend to.

    Bookmark   January 18, 2013 at 7:55PM
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youngquinn_gw

NO the point is that more children under 5 are killed by gun accidents than police officers are killed in the line of duty.
so what is your point FF? that no kids were killed in your neighbourhood??
I just read where you have poor vision.....why do you still have a gun license? or dont you need one over there?

    Bookmark   January 18, 2013 at 8:03PM
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elvis

The stats in the link are terrible. No details, though; how were the children killed/injured? I know, I know: "with a gun". But were the tragedies the result of unattended weapons, homicide, accidental discharge, what? It does make a difference, IMO. For example, if these were instances of caretakers leaving loaded guns where children could get at them, it's a caretaker problem. These are the kind of parents who allow their child to drown, or fall into the lion pit at the zoo, or drive drunk with the kids in the car.

There is more to that number than the presence of guns, is all that I am saying.

Now jump all over me for bringing this obvious (to me) question up.

    Bookmark   January 18, 2013 at 8:41PM
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jon_in_wessex(z8/9 UK)

Nonsense. Absent the guns, none of them would have died.

Which of the categories of dead children you mention do you consider to be acceptable?

    Bookmark   January 19, 2013 at 3:30AM
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youngquinn_gw

Nonsense is right jon
Elvis brushworks posts stats that say more children are being killed by guns than soldiers and police officers combined and you want to know if it is just careless parents??

Dead is dead.

American children are being killed in droves by improper use of guns and you want to quibble about whoese fault it is.
I just cant believe that more Americans are not shocked by this.

    Bookmark   January 19, 2013 at 6:35PM
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marshallz10(z9-10 CA)

I'm not shocked as much as continuing to be appalled by death by gunshot of children for whatever reason. Then I get mad when I recall the "truism" that guns don't kill children, people do. An acquaintance of mine got a scare of his life when his grandson found a hand gun in the bedside drawer and tried to fire it. Luckily it was not loaded but the clip was in the same drawer. An older child could have first loaded the clip.

We had a very brief argument about the circumstances. He insisted that a gun near at hand was a lot better than a gun locked in a secure gun safe. I said, not your grandson.

    Bookmark   January 19, 2013 at 7:07PM
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nancy_in_venice_ca Sunset 24 z10

Echoing Marshall, appalled rather than shocked.

There's much lip service to the ideal of the American family, but as the number of children living in poverty grows, we see proposed budget cuts for food stamps, cries for abolishing Head Start, and reducing funding for any number of other programs serving children. We'll propose arming grade school teachers but balk at providing funds for art education, school libraries, music instruction. You get the picture.

    Bookmark   January 19, 2013 at 8:22PM
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