Chili Mango Preserves? Help, please.

cannondJuly 27, 2012

Has anyone made the Chili Mango preserves recipe from Joy of Cooking All About Canning? I've got the mangos steeping, but I have to admit some nervousness about this recipe. Apart from the 6 1/2 lbs of mangos, the recipe calls for 1 POUND of dried chilies, charred, skinned and seeded. (and some red pepper flakes!) The whole recipe has 6 cups of sugar and 1/2 cup each of lime and lemon juices.

I was thinking this might be nice layered in a chocolate pound cake next January when the snow flies. But....will the ph be low enough, or do you think the 1 pound chilies was a typo?

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digdirt2(6b-7a No.Cent. AR HZ8 Sun-35)

Rather outdated book since there have been substantial revisions in the guidelines since it was published in 2002. And it is not a book I can recall ever being discussed here as reviewed or used. Some of the reviews of it on amazon would make it a bit suspicious but that and $1.25 gets you a cup of coffee. :) Joy of Cooking is great. But they talk like this is just a chapter that got accidently left out of the 1997 edition of Joy of Cooking.

I agree that 1 lb of chilies sounds like a great deal - doesn't even sound good taste wise to me - but it does stipulate DRIED chiles rather than fresh, correct? So pH becomes less of an issue and a total of 1 cup of acids - bottled I presume as per normal. And I would assume that like all approved mango recipes it stipulates green mangoes, not ripe?

Up to you but for several reasons I'd find another recipe. JMO

Dave

    Bookmark   July 27, 2012 at 10:11PM
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cannond

Yes, DRIED chilies. The mangos, however, are firm-ripe. Bottled juice, yes. It does sound good to me, though.

    Bookmark   July 27, 2012 at 10:17PM
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digdirt2(6b-7a No.Cent. AR HZ8 Sun-35)

The mangos, however, are firm-ripe

Then that is a potential problem with pH since all approved mango recipes stipulate green mangoes, not ripe. Mangoes are one of the few low-acid fruits.

Dave

    Bookmark   July 27, 2012 at 10:35PM
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cannond

Linda Ziedrich has a mango jam recipe that uses ripe mangos.

Still, would you happen to know if mango jam freezes well? Or will I just have to pitch this stuff?

This is the first time I've ever worked with mangos. I don't think I've ever even tasted them before. (I've lived a sheltered life) I so like the piney flavor. But they're pricey.

    Bookmark   July 27, 2012 at 10:59PM
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readinglady(z8 OR)

There are ripe mango preserve recipes that are safe. Linda Ziedrich is reliable, so if the amount of citrus juice in your recipe is proportionally the same or greater than the amount she indicates, you're fine.

As Dave said, dried chilis don't present the same issues as fresh ones, though I have to say that almost sounds like an editing error. A pound of dried chilis is just a heck of a lot. Unfortunately, I no longer have that book so I can't suss it out personally to see precisely what it says.

You're investing a lot of time and money in that recipe. Personally I'd scale it down to just a jar or two and use the other mangoes in the preserve Linda Ziedrich provides. Until I was sure I liked it I just wouldn't risk expensive ingredients in an iffy recipe.

I also have a mango-rum with lime juice I posted previously, but that was a long time ago so I don't know if it's dropped off the forum or not. It's a variation of an old Helen Witty recipe for Peach-rum, but it is from a reliable source (vetted by OSU Extension).

Carol

    Bookmark   July 28, 2012 at 2:20AM
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uaskigyrl(7)

Carol, Mango Rum with Lime? That sounds absolutely divine. do you mind reposting the recipe?

As far as this recipe. I'm Latina and from Az, Mangoes with Chilis are a way of life for us ;)I work with dried chilis on a regular basis (weekly, daily even, sometimes) and I have to agree, 1 pound of dried chilis sounds excessive. I have a dried spice called Pico de Gallo (a mixture of chili, limes, salt, etc powder) and a teaspoon goes a loooong way on just ONE cut up mango. Knowing what I know about dried chilis, I wouldn't waste my time on this recipe. Like Carol said, I would use that ripe mango preserves recipe and add chili powder or (my favorite) Pico de Gallo spice. If you want to go on an adventure, you should be able to find the Pico de Gallo spice in a latin market (the small mom & pops corner latino markets are best) but make sure you emphasize the Pico de Gallo SPICE or they will give you the Pico de Gallo SALSA. LOL

    Bookmark   July 28, 2012 at 11:10AM
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digdirt2(6b-7a No.Cent. AR HZ8 Sun-35)

Carol's recipe is in this discussion linked below along with lots of other info on using mangoes too.

As Carol said Ziedrich is reliable and tested so if your acid levels match her's then no problem. But I agree that it is likely wasting expensive ingredients in a very iffy recipe.

Dave

Here is a link that might be useful: mango recipes

    Bookmark   July 28, 2012 at 12:37PM
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cannond

I ended up using the Ziedrich, (couldn't find your lime rum). Insofar as charring dried chilies goes, what a disaster. They go from toasted to burnt in a flash...bitter. I need more practice.

I did add the ubiquitous red pepper flakes to the jam, which supplied the bite I crave, and they're pretty suspended in the gel.

For another recipe I tried Joy of Cooking's trick of rubbing the fuzz off peaches instead of peeling. That didn't work either. That book is going back to the library pronto.

Thanks for the advice. I'm pleased I didn't have to freeze or pitch it all.

    Bookmark   July 28, 2012 at 3:09PM
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digdirt2(6b-7a No.Cent. AR HZ8 Sun-35)

It is Carol's (readinglady) 3rd post in the thread I linked above.

Mango-Lime or Mango-Orange Jam

2 pounds peeled and diced mango
1/2 cup lime juice or 2/3 cup orange juice
2 3/4 - 3 cups sugar

Dave

PS: if you are using library books then stick with books published after 2006 as they will include all but the 2010 revisions.

    Bookmark   July 28, 2012 at 4:55PM
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cannond

"if you are using library books then stick with books published after 2006 as they will include all but the 2010 revisions."

Oooh, no. Then I would have missed Fancy Pantry's Peach Rum Jam, Apricot Preserves (using the little kernels) and so many other of her remarkable recipes.

I think you have a point when it comes to acidified food or pressure canning, but with high acid, sugar saturated fruits, I think one can be less cautious.

Thank you for posting Reading Lady's recipe.

    Bookmark   July 28, 2012 at 5:32PM
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John_Becker

Hello cannond,

OK, first of all, the "dried" chilies is a serious typo. The recipe is in error when calling for dried chilies. It directs the reader to roast peel and seed 1 pound of Pasillas (aka Poblano, dried form is Ancho... authentic dried Pasillas are actually sold as "Chiles Negros") and simmer them in half a cup of lime juice. Since Pasillas are fairly mild, that is why the recipe calls for 1 1/2 tbs of chili flakes. This is then added to the Mango Preserves recipe, which calls for 1/2 cup of bottled lemon juice. After reviewing the National Center for Home Food Preservation's website, I found a recipe for Mango Sauce that calls for 5 to 6 pounds of under-ripe to just-ripe mangoes, 1/4 cup bottled lemon juice, and 2 1/2 teaspoons ascorbic acid. Judging by this recipe from NCHFP, the Chili Mango Preserves recipe is safe, but it should be noted that the 2006 Joy of Cooking (which added the preserving and canning chapters back in) has omitted all ripe mango canning recipes and guidelines for the low-acidity concerns other posters have mentioned (green ones are still present). I'm glad you abandoned the recipe after trying to char the dried chiles! That would have been an expensive mistake.

As for the Peach Conserve recipe's "trick" for peeling peaches, I don't think the recipe's trying to say that wiping peaches with a damp cloth is going to peel them, just that you can include the peel in the conserve and discard the fuzz. Did wiping them not remove the fuzz? or were you expecting the peel to come off? Regardless, this bit of wisdom was cut from the 2006 as well: all peach recipes call for blanching and peeling.

Sorry for the trouble with this book... we've still recovering from the 1997 edition, the companion "All About" series, and the damage it has done to our reputation. As you can see, we try to get in touch with forum posters who have troubles like this, and we are always willing to look into recipes that just plain don't work. The 75th Anniversary edition, published in 2006, was thoroughly vetted and updated by Elizabeth Andress, director of the NCHFP (homefoodpreservation.com), and contains a wealth of material not found in the "All About Canning and Preserving" book.

Again, I apologize for any inconvenience the recipe in question may have caused you.

Best
John Becker
www.thejoykitchen.com

Here is a link that might be useful: NCHFP recipe for Mango Sauce

    Bookmark   July 29, 2012 at 1:36PM
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digdirt2(6b-7a No.Cent. AR HZ8 Sun-35)

Thank John for taking the time to post all this information here. It is great to have access to that inside information and explanation. It clears up several concerns and it is much appreciated by all of us I am sure.

Dave

    Bookmark   July 29, 2012 at 1:51PM
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digdirt2(6b-7a No.Cent. AR HZ8 Sun-35)

Oooh, no. Then I would have missed Fancy Pantry's Peach Rum Jam, Apricot Preserves (using the little kernels) and so many other of her remarkable recipes.

I think you have a point when it comes to acidified food or pressure canning, but with high acid, sugar saturated fruits, I think one can be less cautious.

You are assuming those recipes are not available in later editions as well, editions that have been edited and corrected. Jon's post above makes clear the advantages of using latest editions.

While it is true that high acid fruits have less safety issues many new to canning are not aware of that distinction and so assume that all recipes published in any book, regardless of the ingredients, are safe. And please don't make the mistake of imparting added safety to the sugar levels. Sugar may bind up some free water but it doesn't change the pH and can change the density. And mangoes are a low-acid fruit.

Dave

    Bookmark   July 29, 2012 at 2:03PM
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readinglady(z8 OR)

Yes, thank you John. That makes sense. Just a note for those considering the corrected recipe, simmering the pasillas in lime juice will thoroughly acidify the peppers.

I love Joy of Cooking and treasure my 1953 edition. I'm on my second copy having passed on the marked-up original filled with notes and stains and pasted-in recipes to a new young cook.

Carol

    Bookmark   July 29, 2012 at 2:09PM
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John_Becker

We never get tired of hearing how readers pass on the kitchen torch as you have done, notes, stains and all... The 1953, Irma's last, is a wonderful, classic edition. My fiancee and I are cooking through the 2006 and doing recipe "genealogies" to see when they first appeared in JOY, so we flip through the 53 a lot. Up until recently, I had never read the "Envoi" on 918 (hidden between "Menus" and "Entertaining and Table Service"). It's perhaps my favorite thing Irma wrote (see picture below).

Considering how prompt these responses have been, I just wanted to congratulate everyone here for being part of such a vibrant community of canners! We just updated our website and I wish we could build the same level of participation... after a month and change we have, like, three or four legit postings and comments. Hope some of this forum mojo rubs off!

If any of you guys have other questions that I can answer--not necessarily as a canning authority (looks like digdirt and readinglady are much more knowledgable than I can pretend to be), but as an authority on JOY--please fire away, either on this forum or on ours.

Thanks again for the kind words
John.
www.thejoykitchen.com

    Bookmark   July 29, 2012 at 2:51PM
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cannond

"Did wiping them not remove the fuzz? or were you expecting the peel to come off?"

I did not expect the peel to come off. I hoped the fuzz would, but it didn't. If I'd wiped any harder it would have bruised the fruit.

I appreciate your taking the time to address this. That was helpful.

    Bookmark   July 29, 2012 at 3:57PM
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John_Becker

[facepalm...] The offer stands (check the email address associated with your site membership).

    Bookmark   July 29, 2012 at 4:05PM
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cannond

"You are assuming those recipes are not available in later editions as well, editions that have been edited and corrected. Jon's post above makes clear the advantages of using latest editions."

Fancy Pantry and The Good Stuff are no longer being published. So I'm not assuming anything. The recipes in those books, not all of which involve canning, are stellar.

"And please don't make the mistake of imparting added safety to the sugar levels. Sugar may bind up some free water but it doesn't change the pH and can change the density. And mangoes are a low-acid fruit."

Yes, I'm aware that mangos are low acid fruit, which is why I specified HIGH acid fruits. It's also why I sought help regarding mangos.

It is regrettable that those new to canning might make mistakes regarding safety if they use old books, but that should not hobble those who know the difference.

I thank you for the help you tried to give regarding mangos. Your advice on library books has been noted.

    Bookmark   July 29, 2012 at 4:29PM
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cannond

John:

Thank you for your offer, which I just discovered in my email. I have accepted.

Deborah

    Bookmark   July 29, 2012 at 7:11PM
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