Naylor Creek Spring Order

vpeterson(4)February 2, 2014

I recently joined AHS and received a very nice $15 off coupon for selected nurseries. I am thinking of using it at Naylor Creek because they seem to have a very large selection of fertile plants in their catalog. I am looking for plants that will set viable seeds. Hopefully fertile both directions. Which of these would you recommend for using to make hybrids.

Andorian
Annabel Lee
Atom Smasher
CEltic Uplands
China Girl
Fleet Week
Funky Monkey
Gentle Giant
Hacksaw
Kiyosumiensis
Lipstick Blonde
Purple Boots
Red Dragon
Scallion Pancakes
Skylight
Totally Twisted
Waukon Water

I can't get all of them, though I would love too. I need to narrow the list down to proven winners. Has anyone had experience working with any of these cultivars? Thanks Vicky

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donrawson(Z 5)

You wrote, "I am looking for plants that will set viable seeds."

The hostas you've mentioned are quite diverse. So what are your hybridizing goals? None of the plants you listed will give you variegated seedlings...they will be one solid color such as all-blue, all-green, or all-gold.

None of them are on the list of Sterile Hostas. So probably all of them will produce viable seed (with the possible exception of Celtic Uplands).

    Bookmark   February 2, 2014 at 7:31PM
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vpeterson(4)

Thanks for the link on the sterile hostas. I have been looking for something like that to see if any of the hostas I currently have are sterile.
Right now, I am not sure what my hybridizing goals are. I know that I need to have fertile plants and not sterile plants to work with. I would love to purchase fertile streaker plants, but I did not see anything like that in the list from Naylor's catalog.Did I miss anything looking at the catalog? I want to use the $15 coupon wisely but the list of vendors that honor it seems to be small, and when I checked them out, they did not have a lot of steakers for sale.
Right now, I am practicing more than anything else with the seeds I have at hand. I guess that I am interested in red or purple petioles, so I should probably purchase plants with those characteristics. I was just wondering if anyone has had especially good luck with any of the ones mentioned. Thanks

    Bookmark   February 2, 2014 at 9:17PM
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beverlymnz4

Pay attention to when things flower. I have some great hybridizing plants that I can't use because they bloom too late in my climate. For me, the plants should bloom in or before August so the seed has a couple of months to ripen, although I could bring flower scapes in doors and let them ripen in a vase. Anything that blooms late, is not very useful or extra work.

Beverly

    Bookmark   February 2, 2014 at 10:34PM
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Moccasin(z9aMobileAL)

Yes, I've had a couple of years growing some of those.
1. Annabel Lee growing one year, doing fine even late in the season.
2. Atom Smasher did okay but not outstanding. I seem to do better with something at least in the small/medium range.
3. China Girl was new last year, and I was impressed with the really tall purple petioles. Growth was sort of like a caladium with smaller leaves atop the long stems....cannot wait to see her unfurl in about a month.
4. Funky Monkey....now, I really like this one. Late in our hot summer, it had bleached out the leaves, but it was still shaped nicely and not wilting. Which is saying a lot for our climate.
5. Purple Boots is tough, and I like it, been here since 2012, my first year of full-time hosta mania.
6. Scallion Pancakes...think I bought this for the name, but have been disappointed in it. Very ragged edges, mostly beatup looking. I'd look a JAWS instead. If you do not have it, you should consider this one, which I got from Naylor also. It is also developed by Alttara Scheer. Look at the pictures up in HostaLibrary.
7. Totally Twisted...now, this is a strong growing hosta! It is a very disorganized looking hosta if you look down into the plant and see the "fiddlesticks" of petioles going every which way. Mine developed a case of southern blight last year, at the height of its beauty, and I mourned for it--but then it recovered somehow and surprised the heck out of me. So I'm happy with this one and highly recommend it. I'd say it is a medium size.

    Bookmark   February 3, 2014 at 10:22AM
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ken_adrian Adrian MI cold Z5

vik

without a breeding goal ... you are accomplishing nothing with your order.. in regard to breeding ..

other than buying a bunch of plants that will give a majority of green plants.. with a few yellow or blue thrown in ...

i personally know.. and love the boyz at naylor... and i am sure you will be pleased with your order ...

but you are not paying the real money you need to.. to buy some streaked mother plants ....

the boyz specialize in the newest and brightest ...

they do not.. carry.. all the old standard streakers that are the basis of a breeding program ...

i cant recall.. if you have been informed of the seed growing links on the hosta library page .... if not.. go look for it ...

i will yell ... IDENTIFY A GOAL ... AND BUY ACCORDINGLY ...

do you want to grow monster.. buy a large streaked mother..

mini.. a mini streaked mother ...

a medium with round leaves with blue as a base color.. a mother like that ...

it is on little use.. besides the sheer joy of it.. lol ... to just grow seeds from plants that will give you all green seedlings.. that basically look like momma in shape and form ... unless you just want a couple hundred green plants ...

and stay away from something like dorothy benedict.. as a newb ... simply because its heritage.. means .. if it lives.. lol.. that it will take 7 to 9 years.. for any of the kids to mature.. and frankly.. most of us.. dont have that attention span ...

look for a momma that will mature in about 3 years.. like most mediums...

SO WHAT IS YOUR GOAL ....

ken

ps: many transplants dont bloom the first year after planting ... dont worry about that.... and i would suspect.. that about 99% of hosta are fertile .... and that is without even looking at dons sterile list ... and what she said about trying to breed for smell.. as i can not get plantaginea to mature seed with its mid august flowering date.. most summers... they get frozen before the seed matures ....

    Bookmark   February 3, 2014 at 10:58AM
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Moccasin(z9aMobileAL)

Well, I submitted my first reply before all the other posts were up, did not read about using them for growing new seedlings. Oops. Yes, I am very interested in the offspring of fragrant hosta, and realize that is possible due to our long growing season with very late first frost and very early last frost. So my potential mamas can bloom as late as they want and the pods dry on the plant. I rely on OP (open pollination) and with mine in containers, I move the bloomers close together. I THINK that helps, but don't actually know.

It seems to me that if my mama plants were in the ground, I could put my potential pollen donor in a container and move it while it blooms adjacent to a blooming mama.

What I need to ask someone about pollination is, within a single POD, can there be varied pollens so that different seeds have different papas? Nothing is certain with OP except the mama.

Note that the 2014 edition of HOSTA FINDER is coming out this month I think, and it tells you where you can find various hosta. Take Don Rawson's list of streakers, compare it to his non-fertile list, and then see if you can find some hosta you like.....that fit your goals.

    Bookmark   February 3, 2014 at 3:03PM
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Steve Massachusetts Zone 5b

Here's what I know about the fertility of some of those. If I didn't mention it, I have no info to share.

Annabel Lee - fertile, but fussy accepting pollen
Atom Smasher - haven't used it, but Ron Livingston uses it extensively.
Celtic Uplands - Don Dean uses this one a lot.
China Girl - Grew seeds from this one for the first time this year. I really like the seedlings. This one will put red into the leaf surface.
Fleet Week - Great ruffled blue. Sets seed. Great pollen.
Funky Monkey - Fussy, but produces interesting seedlings. Reportedly, Altara uses this as a "bridge" plant to put red into plants without red. I haven't found it to do that (yet).
Hacksaw - Haven't used it, but I know others use it easily.
Purple Boots - very fertile both ways. Produces dark purple into the pets reliably.
Skylight - fertile both ways. Produces lots of blue wax in seedlings.

Just so you know Altara's plants can be difficult to set seed. I've used Annabelle Lee, Shimmy Shake, Funky Monkey with limited success. Try Beet Salad and mix it with other reds with different backgrounds if you want to add more red into your seedlings. Check out the web site below.

Below is a picture of China Girl x Painted Desert, a newly planted seedling.

Steve

Here is a link that might be useful: Red Hosta

This post was edited by steve_mass on Mon, Feb 3, 14 at 19:23

    Bookmark   February 3, 2014 at 7:17PM
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bernd ny zone5

H. 'Red Dragon' flowered well last year, I saved some pollen in the freezer. Somehow, after I pollinated 'Blue Lightning' with pollen of large blue and green ones I got worn out and had no good success with red pollen on yellow ones.
It is fun to have some good seedlings growing in the basement right now.
Bernd

    Bookmark   February 3, 2014 at 7:36PM
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vpeterson(4)

What a wealth of information! Thank you so much. I knew that I would get grief for not stating a hybridizing goal. I am just beginning, but I do know that I don't have a lot of fertile hostas in my garden. According to the Sterile list, I have 32 sterile hostas.
I do want to find breeder mamas that are streaked. I am just not sure where to go for these. I have my coupon from AHS so I think that I will get some fertile hostas that can bring out the red in the petioles.
Beverly- I had not thought about bloom times. In MN it is important. I will look them up before making a decision.

I think that getting a Hosta Finder is a good idea. It will probably be my next purchase.

I have recorded everyone's information and suggestions into my notebook. Thanks so much for your suggestions. I will look up beet salad.

Steve _ Mass- Thank you so much for the link to the red hosta board. WOW. There is so much out there on the internet to help people. I will be reading everything on it.

Ken- I will work on my developing my hybridizing goals. Right now my goal is to simply get seed to sprout and grow. I have some greenies coming up now and I am very excited about them. Some people have also been very kind and have sent me some streaker seeds to get me started. I don't want to start them until I practice with the greenies first. I appreciate all of your comments. Thanks again. Vicky

    Bookmark   February 3, 2014 at 8:30PM
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trudy_gw

Vicky you have very nice list picked out. Here is what I have used from your list.
Atom Smasher:-very fertile but thin substance-would cross with a thicker substance hosta- have gotten very good pod set

Skylight: nice pod set, most seedlings had round leaves like the parent, got a nice yellow seedling of the mix- will need to cross with a different leaf shape to change leaf-nice powder blue has been passed on to a few streaked seedlings when used as a pollen parent

Hacksaw-very fertile, much the same as Atom Smasher

As for a streaked hosta, a few of the less expensive would be Christmas Tree Gala and Blue Lighting to name a ocuple. There are a few more on the market which are less expensive but the substance is very thin. Bill Silvers has CTG on his web page for sale. He will probably also be at the AHS convention in Iowa, so you woldnt have to pay shipping if you will be at the convention. He may even have more streaked hostas. These hostas may not bloom the first year.

In my opinion if I was to start over there would not be any streaked named hostas I would buy. Have had more luck using the seedlings I grew from getting seeds from other hybridizers on the auctions.

First Look Auction is coming up soon.

Good luck in your hybridizing program, There is not really a right or wrong where to go here. I started out growing Open Pollenated seeds and had no goal in mind, not sure I still do, mostly just have fun doing crosses and growing OP seeds and see what surprises come up in my seed cups!

Any questions please ask!

Here is a link that might be useful: Streaked Hostas by Bill Silvers

    Bookmark   February 6, 2014 at 9:59AM
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Moccasin(z9aMobileAL)

Vicky, Beet Salad as grown by SteveMass is awesome...his pictures of it show perfection. Maybe he will grace us with that photo again....

    Bookmark   February 6, 2014 at 10:28AM
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trudy_gw

Blue Lighting seedling photo from last year

    Bookmark   February 6, 2014 at 3:55PM
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vpeterson(4)

Trudy- thanks for your suggestions. I wrote down both Christmas Tree GAla and Blue Lightening in my hybrid notebook. I also looked up Bill Silvers site. It is very nice. I will be gong to the National Convention so I will look for his plants there.

Thanks to everyone for all of this great motivation. It is so much fun to create in the dirt!

    Bookmark   February 6, 2014 at 8:29PM
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don_in_colorado

Thanks for the idea, VP. I'm putting together a Naylor Creek order right now. Great selection, eh? : ) These are GOOD problems to have, having trouble selecting which awesome plants to get.

Don B.

    Bookmark   February 6, 2014 at 8:43PM
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smithstudios71(5)

Just passing on some knowledge I gained on this forum about seeds.

If you want some seeds to grow this year and a chance for some of them to be streakers, check out Doug Beilsteins place, Hosta Works. I bought some seeds from him and have some up that are very streaked. This is my first year growing seeds and it is great to have some interesting ones growing in the middle of winter. I will at least have some streaked plants to use in the future, if I get to hybridizing for myself.

Here is a link that might be useful: Hosta Works

    Bookmark   February 6, 2014 at 9:46PM
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trudy_gw

Vicky, there will also be other vendors at the convention who will have streaked plants. After I mentioned Silvers, I realized vendors have not really made connections yet for the convention.

Steve nice shot by the way. China Girl passes on some nice genes.

Smithstudio, what nice looking streaked seelings, way to grow!

    Bookmark   February 7, 2014 at 6:48PM
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don_in_colorado

Wow, Devon is not messing around. Nice streaked babies from the get-go! I'll happily be your first customer, should you decide to eventually unload any. : )

Don B.

    Bookmark   February 7, 2014 at 7:47PM
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smithstudios71(5)

I feel pretty lucky to have what I have coming up, especially seeing all the foo foo I threw at them from the start!

Don, hopefully one of these days I will be able to hook you up!

    Bookmark   February 8, 2014 at 7:16PM
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don_in_colorado

You should name your first keeper 'Foo Foo' LOL!

Don B.

    Bookmark   February 8, 2014 at 11:46PM
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