DS-70/Bilobata/Breveliata/Incurvula

peanut01(7VA)March 11, 2011

I thought I would run this by the forum again since I still feel some confusion over the identity of a few of my Hoyas. I purchased the following three Hoyas with different names.

These names have been disputed in the past. I feel they all have different traits and I wanted to get some opinions from others.

Purchased as Bilobata - ID in the past as DS-70 - Smells like butterscotch when in bloom - Flowers seem to look like online photos of DS-70

Purchased as Breveliata - ID in the past as DS-70 - Just about to bloom for the first time for me - If this is DS-70 would it just be a bigger, darker leaved clone? They are grown next to each other so same culture - I will be able to compare flowers in a day or 2 when it opens completely

Purchased as Sulawesi - ID online as Breveliata or Incurvula which are possibly synonymous... IDK - Very different leave shape - I personally like Incurvula if I was able to choose

What do you think... Are these Hoyas all different or are the first two just variable clones of DS-70?

-David

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mdahms1979

The first two plants are in my opinion both Hoya sp DS-70 but they appear to have been grown in different conditions so that they have different leaf characteristics. Hoya sp DS-70 has leaves covered with fine hairs vs Hoya bilobata which has glabrous or hairless leaves and slightly different flowers.

The last plant could be Hoya brevialata or Hoya incurvula which are both separate species. Hoya incurvula tends to have more pointed leaves and the flowers show quite a bit of variation in size depending on where the plants were collected. The leaves of your plant look quite rounded so it is likely Hoya brevialata.

The names that come on commercially available Hoyas are almost always wrong so don't pay too much attention to the tags when you buy plants unless they come from a seller who specializes in Hoyas.

Mike

    Bookmark   March 11, 2011 at 8:33PM
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mitzicos(11)

David,

I have the same doubt that you regarding some hoyas and I have posted something about it few days ago.

I was looking at vermont site and find very similar the hoya magnifica compared with hoya Hoya aff. albiflora from Joni's site.

I'm new collecting hoyas, I always had the common ones easily found in Brazil like hoya carnosa, so I'm not the right person to compare, but take a look at this:

http://www.srqhoyas.com/My-Collection.html look for Hoya aff. albiflora

http://vermonthoyascom.fatcow.com/?page_id=289

For me they look like almost the same.

Mitzi

    Bookmark   March 12, 2011 at 6:26AM
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mdahms1979

Mitzi in this case you are probably right that both species on the two web pages are the same. The flowers of Hoya albiflora are supposed to be more cupped than magnifica and without the red hiding behind the corona. If both plants came from the Liddle collection you may be able to track down the collection data and find out exactly where each Hoya was collected.
I think a lot of confusion comes from the fact that in nature many species are found far apart but they still resemble each other. If you do a little research you can find that Hoya magnifica is from New Guinea and Hoya albiflora is from the Indonesian island of Java. It must be possible for the wind blown Hoya seeds to travel great distances and there are many species in this same area that closely resemble each other.

Mike

Here is a link that might be useful:

    Bookmark   March 12, 2011 at 11:41AM
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mitzicos(11)

Mike,

When I bought some hoyas I started to compare one to another, and some are very similar regarding foliage, any of my hoyas florish yet, but I note that same hoyas has different names but are very similar, and I wrote about that, I don't know if you remember! I was crazy about magnifica and I bought the one from Joni, so I'm glad that I have the magnifica or a very similar one! LOL, Luck me!

    Bookmark   March 12, 2011 at 12:10PM
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mitzicos(11)

One expedition around those areas in the map would be something don't you think? Without tsunamis...

    Bookmark   March 12, 2011 at 12:15PM
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peanut01(7VA)

To add further confusion... I went to the store today and there were 4 plants marked as Bilobata. They were all much larger leaved than both of mine. I popped a leave off to compare since I am considering purchasing another in case it truly is different.

Here is the pic. The large leave was the Bilobata from the store.

The other leaves were the largest that I could find on the other plants so there is definately a big difference.

Underside:

Maybe there is huge variability between the DS-70 just like with Humans. Also the 2 that I photographed last night are grown in exactly the same conditions for over the past 15 months. Next to each other on the front porch in the summer and next to each other in my kitchen area in the winter.

-David

    Bookmark   March 12, 2011 at 1:21PM
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mitzicos(11)

David,

It is very interesting how you all can find hoyas so easily! I wish I could say the same, but here we only have carnosa and is specific gardens, it is not easy to find! By the way where are you from? If it is an inopportune question please do not respond.

Mitzi

    Bookmark   March 12, 2011 at 1:51PM
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mdahms1979

Each seed grown plant is an individual just like each human, variation within a species is very common and when a stable variant exists often in geographical isolation you get a subspecies.
I believe the first three leaves from left to right are the same species (DS-70) but they have been grown in different light conditions. The lower the light the more leaf surface area a plant needs to capture light energy. The last leaf is Hoya brevialata and if you notice the underside of the leaf margins on Hoya DS-70 curl under while brevialata's don't unless the leaves develop in low light and are more cupped than usual. If you grow Hoya DS-70 in bright light or sun it's leaves will be smaller and they can develop a beautiful red colour.

Mike

    Bookmark   March 12, 2011 at 11:25PM
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denise_gw(5)

David,

I went through this several years ago with DS-70 (back then, it was more commonly called tsangii, but as it turned out, that was a different species...) and also the incurvula/brevialata. I bought one DS-70 online, and before it arrived in the mail, I found a big one at a local box store. They looked a lot alike, but the one from the box store and much less succulent leaves than the mail order one. Then, a month or so later, I found another one at the box store, tagged differently, with the larger leaves. Both were EA plants, so I assumed they were different. But when they bloomed, they all had the exact same bloom, so all turned out to be DS-70. As for the incurvula/brevialata, I'm still not sure which I have because some leaves are more round while others more oblong. It can be crazy-making trying to figure out what you have!

Denise in Omaha

    Bookmark   March 13, 2011 at 10:21AM
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greedygh0st

I just wanted to say that I'm really enjoying this thread, so thanks for starting it up, David.

Even though it's a very old and tired conundrum, you have such nice mature plants that it's very easy to observe the differences. Loved the lineup of store leaves, too. (And Mike's courageous "they're all DS-70" pronouncement lol!)

I've poured over countless old threads on this topic before, but I think I can finally say that I can wrap my mind around the topic.

Now I just have to go home and reevaluate my own DS-70/incurvula/brevialata situation. I honestly think I long ago started to slightly dislike all 3 of my candidates because they remained so stubbornly ambiguously distinctive.

And yes, I do know I sound like a total noob for taking this long to sort this out, but honestly, how dull is it stare down your "brevialata" for the umpteenth time wondering if it's actually DS-70, when you could be puttering around with something that you could start a less embarrassing thread about? ^_~

    Bookmark   March 16, 2011 at 2:14PM
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meyermike_1micha(5)

David: You have two huge plants there. Wow.

I am sure they will do well with you. I wish I could fit one that big in my home. The leaves are all so different and have such chracteristics. Thanks you:-)

Mike

    Bookmark   March 16, 2011 at 4:28PM
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peanut01(7VA)

Mike:

It is almost time for me to send some Lacunosa to you. I have a 'Ruby Sue' that is rooted and ready to go. I would just like to send it while we have some good temps for MI and VA Haven't seen you around too much lately. Hope all is well. I'll also be including cuts from all my other large hoyas.

By the way how is the rescued Carnosa doing? And how is that beautiful variegated TC doing?... Yes I saw that one in the C&S forum. I bet others here would love to see it too.

-David

    Bookmark   March 16, 2011 at 5:11PM
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meyermike_1micha(5)

Hey Dave:-)

I totally forgot about you offering me cuttings. I will e-mail soon. I have bee very under the weather lately but getting strength back . Than k you!

Yes. I dropped that TC and destroyed half of it. But the other half is sprouting new growth thank goodness. Let me get a picture of it and I will show you. I will also show you another surprise.

I will also take a picture of the rescued one and post it here tomorrow. It is getting a flower! The color is getting greener too. It seems to be doing a lot better. I am happy for it.

Good night and I will see you tomorrow:-)

Mike

    Bookmark   March 16, 2011 at 10:31PM
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peanut01(7VA)

GG - I guess I will let this topic rest. I can only drive myself so crazy over this one. I think I will keep my medium sized dark leave DS-70 as well as my full light colored small leave DS-70. No others will be accepted unless it is a variegated form. There is just too much variation on the leaves with little variation in the flower or scent which leads me to believe this is just a different DS-70 clone. I wonder if they will ever give this plant a proper name.

-David

    Bookmark   March 17, 2011 at 11:29AM
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