WSJ knows its audience

david52 Zone 6January 17, 2013

On the hardships of Obama's usury tax rates among typical Americans.

-snip-But there are two backdoor tax increases that will apply to people earning far less [sic] - $250,000 for singles and $300,000 for couples.

The first concerns the personal exemption, or the amount of money a taxpayer can deduct for him or herself and dependents. In 2013, this exemption is expected to be $3,900, so a couple with three children could deduct $19,500.

In 2013 the exemption phases out for people starting at the $250,000/$300,000 income thresholds, and vanishes completely for couples at $422,500 of "adjusted gross income," or income before itemized deductions, and at $372,500 for singles. So, a couple with three children and adjusted gross income of $300,000 or more will lose some or all of their $19,500 exemption. " snip

With this helpful graphic. Note diversity in suffering.

Here is a link that might be useful: WSJ article

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esh_ga

All the examples include substantial "investment income" - the single parent has $35,000 in investment income? And she makes makes $260,000 a year? WOW.

No poor people reading THAT rag.

    Bookmark   January 17, 2013 at 10:54AM
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hamiltongardener(CAN 6a)

Loving the graphic, guys!

Those sad looking urchins right beside the text saying "INCOME: $650,000"

Even better, the bold lettering beside the downtrodden looking children of the single mother, indicating a tax increase of $3,000..... right underneath the Income of $260,000.

Won't somebody think of the children!!!

lolol...too funny.

    Bookmark   January 17, 2013 at 11:04AM
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chase_gw

I wanna know why the retired couple look so sad....maybe they were looking for a raise in their SS and medicare....

    Bookmark   January 17, 2013 at 11:07AM
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labrea_gw

They need a telethon!

    Bookmark   January 17, 2013 at 11:09AM
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hamiltongardener(CAN 6a)

I wanna know why the retired couple look so sad....

I think it's because they are being forced to live on only $180,000 a year.

    Bookmark   January 17, 2013 at 11:13AM
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david52 Zone 6

Single Mom, two kids, $350,000 in income. Obamas' tax rates took an additional 1.2%, and now look......

    Bookmark   January 17, 2013 at 11:14AM
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duluthinbloomz4

...maybe they were looking for a raise in their SS...

They got that - 1.7% (but the raise in Medicare premiums took a bit of that back).

Must be the "uncertainty" in investment income. Uncertainty - that hobgoblin preventing the job creators from creating jobs.

    Bookmark   January 17, 2013 at 11:29AM
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marshallz10(z9-10 CA)

I saw the same images reposted on Andrew Sullivan's blog and thought for sure that this was a piece put out by The Onion.

    Bookmark   January 17, 2013 at 11:46AM
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jodik_gw

Who are all these poor people only bring in 6 figures? How sad for them.

I don't know anyone who earns 6 figures. Most of the folks we know are struggling to maintain 4 and 5 figure salaries and make ends meet. I certainly don't anyone who has the extra funding to invest in the market.

    Bookmark   January 17, 2013 at 11:57AM
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althea_gw

Great contrast of the poor, downtrodden single mother trying to raise 2 children on $260k per year with Dorothea Lange's poignant photo.

Unbelievable.

    Bookmark   January 17, 2013 at 11:58AM
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rob333

Can I trade with that single mom? I'm not wild about more than one child, but I'll take that income. I'd settle for half of that income.

    Bookmark   January 17, 2013 at 12:02PM
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david52 Zone 6

I'd be more than happy to live on what they pay in taxes......

    Bookmark   January 17, 2013 at 12:06PM
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fouquieria(10b)

Sigh....there goes that four years to Harvard. I guess you'll have to settle on Bryn Mawr Sally.

-Ron-

    Bookmark   January 17, 2013 at 12:25PM
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momj47(7A)

Wow. I earn 5 times LESS than that single mother and I'm supporting myself, my DD, SIL and two grandchildren.

Doubling my income would make a HUGE difference.

    Bookmark   January 17, 2013 at 12:30PM
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marquest(z5 PA)

Depending on where you live a single mom and a couple of kids 260 thou could be a struggle. I was amazed that some people are paying 600-700 a month for daycare and she told me that was cheap compared to the ones she had checked before deciding.

    Bookmark   January 17, 2013 at 12:35PM
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demifloyd(8)

We are a product of our decisions.

    Bookmark   January 17, 2013 at 12:42PM
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labrea_gw

What rubbish!

    Bookmark   January 17, 2013 at 12:52PM
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markjames

One of my brothers and one of my sisters fit the income profile of the single person, however they invest much of their income as they have little debt.

Unlike the people pictured above, they're always smiling.

I could live like a king on what I pay annually in property taxes alone...

    Bookmark   January 17, 2013 at 12:55PM
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chase_gw

"We are a product of our decisions."

If we are then I thank heaven that I must have made different decisions.

    Bookmark   January 17, 2013 at 12:57PM
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demifloyd(8)

Posted by chase z6 (My Page) on
Thu, Jan 17, 13 at 12:57

"We are a product of our decisions."

If we are then I thank heaven that I must have made different decisions.

*

Different decisions than whom?

Be careful, people that accuse others of wearing veils are usually those with very large holes in their own--from which to cast stones from behind them.

    Bookmark   January 17, 2013 at 1:10PM
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chase_gw

Well, since you asked, you for one.....

    Bookmark   January 17, 2013 at 1:21PM
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demifloyd(8)

Well, at least you admit you personally insulted me.

I'm being charitable, as usual.

Go and sin no more.

    Bookmark   January 17, 2013 at 1:31PM
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mrskjun(9)

Are you sure you pay enough Mark James? Show of hands..who thinks Mark James should pay more in taxes. We know that he works really really hard, he needs to pick up some slack here.

    Bookmark   January 17, 2013 at 1:32PM
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demifloyd(8)

I'm sure there are people that don't pay a thin little DIME in federal income taxes that think others should pay more.

Unbelievable.

I think Mark James should get an offset for being a good citizen and being personally responsible

Yea, that's it--tax credits for doing the right thing and working hard and making good decisions--NOT tax credits for being a loser.

    Bookmark   January 17, 2013 at 1:35PM
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chase_gw

Sorry if you took it as insult Demi....it wasn't.

I am simply saying that if we are products of our decisions, as you suggest, then I'm glad that the decisions I made put me on a different path. Not saying your choices were wrong.....just different from mine.

    Bookmark   January 17, 2013 at 1:35PM
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demifloyd(8)

So, you're being charitable now?

You have to tell me these things, I never know.

;)

    Bookmark   January 17, 2013 at 1:36PM
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chase_gw

If you are talking to me I have no idea what you mean.

    Bookmark   January 17, 2013 at 1:37PM
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markjames

I've paid substantially more taxes than I had to as I haven't taken many deductions I was entitled to.

The same applies to property taxes. I paid higher rates for years before I fought my ridiculous assessments, or cut and run to lower tax regions.

    Bookmark   January 17, 2013 at 1:38PM
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esh_ga

I could live like a king on what I pay annually in property taxes alone...

Sounds like a state thing. Who am I to judge, mrskjun if NY property taxes are too high? I don't even know the value of his properties.

    Bookmark   January 17, 2013 at 1:38PM
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markjames

Property taxes are a state and regional issue. In New York, unfunded state mandates consume much of the property tax levy in many regions.

Tax rates vary substantially by city, town, village, school system etc.

A 100k city home in some regions will have higher property taxes than 3 or more 100K homes in regions minutes away with much better services, school systems, quality of life etc.

    Bookmark   January 17, 2013 at 1:47PM
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jodik_gw

I can't help but say that I'm exceedingly glad my decisions were different! Priorities and conscience...

    Bookmark   January 17, 2013 at 3:09PM
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marquest(z5 PA)

"We are a product of our decisions."

If we are then I thank heaven that I must have made different decisions.

I agree with Jodi and Chase. I thank heavens that I made different decisions. I am pleased with my product.

    Bookmark   January 17, 2013 at 3:37PM
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PRO
Brushworks Spectacular Finishes(5)

I'm pleased that I made different decisions than most of you.

I am pleased with my finances, my family, and my life!

You don't have to be poor to be thankful.

    Bookmark   January 17, 2013 at 4:09PM
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demifloyd(8)

Well, aren't we a happy bunch?

I'm so glad everyone is so happy they made "different" decisions.

I guess that reference means different than my decisions!

Otherwise, what is the "different" reference and piling on the bandwagon all about?

The Riddlers are not so subtle around here.

Going to bed knowing you made the best decisions you could make in life and aren't whining about the results of your personal choices is one of the best feelings in the world.

Contrary to attempts to insert a little equalizer into reality, being poor is no more a badge of conscience or a badge of superior priorities than being rich.

Happy Happy Joy Joy it's all good.

    Bookmark   January 17, 2013 at 4:32PM
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chase_gw

The different decisions I made, assuming you are correct that we are all a product of our decisions, have zero to do with money.

Perhaps we made similar decisions in that regard, don't know. Certainly I am not poor.

    Bookmark   January 17, 2013 at 4:36PM
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demifloyd(8)

My most important decisions had nothing to do with money itself, Chase, but I have also made good financial decisions.

I have found that the decisions we make about how well we choose to do in school, how much we study, whether we are willing to think outside the box and take chances on a career, whether we are willing to leave the comfort and security of our community and family to move far away for a better position, whether we are willing to work long hours and weekends, whether we are willing to live in a smaller house, not buy new vehicles, not spend a lot in order to save for our future, not taking on debt we can't handle, saving or not saving--whether we choose to have children early, who we have those children with and if we make a good judgment as to whether that partner will do right by you and those children, whether we choose addiction or discipline--all of those factors contribute greatly in most instances to financial success or security, or at the least, comfort.

    Bookmark   January 17, 2013 at 5:06PM
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labrea_gw

YAWN...the WSJ once was good paper now they are just another Murdoch mouthpiece!

    Bookmark   January 17, 2013 at 5:17PM
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chase_gw

I understand that Demi, as you say those factors contribute to financial success. It's always about money one way or the other.

I am talking about other decisions, decisions that form who we are beyond financial security. Choices that define our social obligations, our attitude toward our fellow man, toward the environment, toward people different that we are be it race or economic status and much, much more.

As you say we are a product of our decisions and in that regard we are very, very different.

    Bookmark   January 17, 2013 at 5:23PM
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carol_in_california

That Dorothea Lange photo was taken about two miles down the road from where I live.
And they have started growing peas in our area, also.

    Bookmark   January 17, 2013 at 6:14PM
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marquest(z5 PA)

My most important decisions had nothing to do with money itself, Chase, but I have also made good financial decisions.

Yes money is easy. There are so many ways of making money. Character and the human being you become is the proof of whether a person made good decisions. JMO

When you die and all anyone cares about is how much money you left them or not. You made the wrong decisions. I always think of Leona Helmsley, and all she had in her life at the end was her dog Troubles. He probably would have run away if they left a window open.

Helmsley had a barbecue pit constructed for her home.The work was performed by Eugene Brennan, a personal friend of Jeremiah McCarthy, the chief engineer of Helmsley-Spear. When the final bill came to $13,000, she refused to pay, citing shoddy workmanship. When McCarthy pleaded with her to honor the bill, citing the favor done on his behalf and informing her that Brennan had six children to support, Helmsley replied, "Why didn't he keep his pants on? Then he wouldn't need the money."

Here is a link that might be useful: Leona Helmsley

    Bookmark   January 17, 2013 at 9:28PM
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demifloyd(8)

What does that story have to do with anything, Marquest?

And no, Chase, it's not always about money.

It is about taking personal responsibility for your own life and your choices, though--in my view.

    Bookmark   January 17, 2013 at 9:58PM
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marquest(z5 PA)

What does that story have to do with anything, Marquest?

If you have to ask.....Oh Well

    Bookmark   January 17, 2013 at 10:58PM
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youngquinn_gw

I always thought that we Australians paid more tax to fund our "socilaist" services but we pay about the same as you and we have no state taxes.

so I have to ask

If we can afford it,why cant you afford universal Government paid health care?

    Bookmark   January 17, 2013 at 11:41PM
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marquest(z5 PA)

young the simple answer is WAR.

I do not like Wiki but it was quick and they have an estimate not the real cost to this point.

The cost of the two wars and the interest is breaking America. The pennies that are spent for our citizens in need is very low in comparison what we give away in aide to other countries and our defense budget.

Here is a link that might be useful: We are Broke Because

This post was edited by marquest on Fri, Jan 18, 13 at 0:11

    Bookmark   January 17, 2013 at 11:59PM
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labrea_gw

Oh most certifiably war Pam and the folks who make a living in those industries.

    Bookmark   January 18, 2013 at 12:07AM
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youngquinn_gw

what a waste of lives AND money !
wasnt it Bin Laden who was famous for saying that he would wage "economic "war on America as it would be more effective?
pity he is going to win.

    Bookmark   January 18, 2013 at 1:06AM
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marquest(z5 PA)

pity he is going to win.

Since you do not live in this country you have some idea why many of us that fight for our citizens that are in need. We realize it is not the pennies we spend for food stamps to feed children, and elderly meals on wheels that is costing trillions of dollars.

It amazes me that a political party can hoodwink so many literate adults that personal responsibility fairy tale.

    Bookmark   January 18, 2013 at 2:07AM
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Elly_NJ(NJ z6)

My annual salary is half of what that poor mother pays in taxes.

    Bookmark   January 18, 2013 at 7:01AM
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ohiomom

The cost of the two wars and the interest is breaking America. The pennies that are spent for our citizens in need is very low in comparison what we give away in aide to other countries and our defense budget.

...thought it needed repeating for those who missed (dismiss) it.

Elly mine is not even half of yours :)

    Bookmark   January 18, 2013 at 7:39AM
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jillinnj

demi: ...whether we choose addiction...

You think addiction is a choice?

marquest - Leona was such a peach, wasn't she? Shows that money cannot buy you a conscience. And, her comment (and attitude) about keeping his pants on, well, reminds one of someone here, doesn't it?

    Bookmark   January 18, 2013 at 8:31AM
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demifloyd(8)

Posted by jillinnj (My Page) on
Fri, Jan 18, 13 at 8:31

demi: ...whether we choose addiction...

You think addiction is a choice?

marquest - Leona was such a peach, wasn't she? Shows that money cannot buy you a conscience. And, her comment (and attitude) about keeping his pants on, well, reminds one of someone here, doesn't it?

*

Ooooh, claws are out early on Friday for Demi, eh?

Par for the course, another day at the office!

*

(a) Addiction itself is not a choice.

Choosing to indulge one's weakness is.

(b) You are right, the comment about keeping your pants on if you can't afford to pay for your children is correct if
it reminds you of me.

However, you are totally wrong about the attitude and
the manner of treating people that work for you.

Leona Helmsley was a mean tyrant as an employer to many.

People like working for me because I treat them very
well personally, I pay very well and give extra gifts
and money to reward hard work, effort, and consistence.

I'm a peach--the antithesis of Leona Helmsley.

*

Now, since the venom has been milked, can you please go back to referring to the topic and not me, personally?

    Bookmark   January 18, 2013 at 9:17AM
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jillinnj

Well, someone is a little defensive this morning, aren't they?

(a) Addiction itself is not a choice.

Choosing to indulge one's weakness is.

What do you mean? Just lazy and irresponsible if they don't have the means to beat their addiction?

    Bookmark   January 18, 2013 at 9:26AM
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demifloyd(8)

Au contraire, I have nothing to be defensive about.

Just acknowledging your intent--that was your objective, was it not?

*

One cannot help it if they are sensitive to certain substances.

However, once they realize they are sensitive and the alcohol, molesting children or drugs are a problem, choosing to indulge that weakness is a choice.

Look at it this way--if someone held a shotgun to the head of a child molester and said, "if you touch that child I will blow your brains all over this room," I'm betting that child molester would keep his or her hands to themselves.

SO you see, it is a choice.

Same scenario with alcoholics and drug users.
Hold a shotgun to the heads of their children and ask them if they will take a drink or snort cocaine or smoke dope.

With few exceptions, I'm betting the CHOICE would be made to say no.

    Bookmark   January 18, 2013 at 10:09AM
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nancy_in_venice_ca Sunset 24 z10

Same scenario with alcoholics and drug users.
Hold a shotgun to the heads of their children and ask them if they will take a drink or snort cocaine or smoke dope.

Interesting choice of an example.

When the military juntas in Chile and Argentina used the same technique to obtain information from political prisoners it was univerally condemned as an abuse of human rights.

Again, interesting choice for an example.

    Bookmark   January 18, 2013 at 10:26AM
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ohiomom

I am sorry Demi but only for that moment when "a gun is held" to their head, but the above instance (pedophile, alcoholic, drug user) no this will not stop them, unless you (not you specifically) intend to stand their 24/7 with that gun "locked and loaded".

I wish the answer to complex behaviors was that simple, but it is not.

    Bookmark   January 18, 2013 at 10:29AM
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maddie_athome

No surprise.

    Bookmark   January 18, 2013 at 10:30AM
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labrea_gw

Ah shes just playing kick me and some of us who like to argue these issues won't flame her. Pack it up Demi the gambit is wheezing on the coals!

    Bookmark   January 18, 2013 at 10:38AM
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demifloyd(8)

There's nothing interesting about it--that choice says nothing about me, which is what you are clearly implying.

It proves my point that when people are motivated, they CAN make the correct choice.

    Bookmark   January 18, 2013 at 10:39AM
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marquest(z5 PA)

Addiction is a disease. It is not a choice. Just as mental illness is a disease.

You can no more hold a gun to the head of a person and tell them not to have cancer than you can tell them not to be a Schizophrenic, alcoholic, etc.

    Bookmark   January 18, 2013 at 10:41AM
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markjames

Physicians often donate their magazines to hospital waiting rooms. The financial mags aren't popular with the poor people, but they seem to enjoy the powerboating, yachting and high end auto mags. Must be the pictures and/or the fantasy aspect...

    Bookmark   January 18, 2013 at 10:42AM
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david52 Zone 6

So this gets back to how to FORCE people to make good decisions and be personally responsible? Threaten to kill them?

    Bookmark   January 18, 2013 at 10:42AM
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nancy_in_venice_ca Sunset 24 z10

There's nothing interesting about it

I found it quite revealing.

Thank you.

    Bookmark   January 18, 2013 at 10:46AM
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demifloyd(8)

Posted by nancy_in_venice_ca SS24 z10 CA (My Page) on
Fri, Jan 18, 13 at 10:46

There's nothing interesting about it

I found it quite revealing.

Thank you.

*

Well, you're safe if you take a drink around me.
I promise not to go get my shotgun!

But I will call the cops if you snort coke or smoke dope.

:)

    Bookmark   January 18, 2013 at 10:50AM
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nancy_in_venice_ca Sunset 24 z10

Well, you're safe if you take a drink around me.
I promise not to go get my shotgun!

I would imagine so since putting a gun to my head, or that of children, when posing no physical threat to you, would be against the law.

    Bookmark   January 18, 2013 at 10:53AM
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demifloyd(8)

Really? With my criminal justice and law enforcement background, I had no idea!

I'm so glad you told me.

Revealing is right--don't you people talk about topics or just let me have my opinion or make my point without slamming me and changing the subject to pass judgment on me for my opinions?

"Ain't you tired Miss Nancy, ain't you tired?"

    Bookmark   January 18, 2013 at 10:58AM
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labrea_gw

There's a long history of choices on this forum and tomes of being offended. Whats the common factor in all of them? Perhaps your addicted to being insulted!

    Bookmark   January 18, 2013 at 11:03AM
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david52 Zone 6

So, if somebody held a shot gun to someones head, they'd have the *choice* of not being perpetually offended?

    Bookmark   January 18, 2013 at 11:06AM
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nancy_in_venice_ca Sunset 24 z10

Really? With my criminal justice and law enforcement background

Then you should have been aware that the examples that you cited regarding pedophiles and addicts involved criminal behavior.

Spontaneous examples are offered, unsolicited, and when the implications of those example are pointed out, umbrage abounds. A stupid, illogical, and sadistic example is just that; stupid, illogical, and sadistic.

Now, what about addressing the comments from Ohiomom, David, and Marquest. And perhaps labrea's as well.

    Bookmark   January 18, 2013 at 11:14AM
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jillinnj

Exactly the answer I expected, which shows a lack of understanding of addiction. Or maybe a lack of empathy. Or both.

Either way, it is revealing.

    Bookmark   January 18, 2013 at 11:16AM
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labrea_gw

Degrees in Addiction Sciences are handed out so easily these days. Considering it's original source was why I am such a wonderful example to myself & by my own admission.
There is though something that comes close but is still miles away from the bizarre fantasy!
Mind you it is considered controversial by people who have years of practice experience & study (Degrees) in these fields & not a crackpot "I Fell Pretty witty & bright a committeee...yadda yadda yaddah!"

Here is a link that might be useful: Disorder of Choice

    Bookmark   January 18, 2013 at 11:18AM
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Circus Peanut

So, if somebody held a shot gun to someones head, they'd have the *choice* of not being perpetually offended?

Ka- zinng- shish! Best comment all week.

    Bookmark   January 18, 2013 at 4:04PM
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duluthinbloomz4

Is it time for the pet pictures yet?

    Bookmark   January 18, 2013 at 4:22PM
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nancy_in_venice_ca Sunset 24 z10

What? A gun to the heads of the pets too?

    Bookmark   January 18, 2013 at 4:50PM
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