Can any soup recipe be pressure canned?

davejnh(5 NH)September 17, 2006

Hi,

I've purchased an All American pressure canner for salsa, but was wondering if given enough time, could most soup recipes be pressure canned? My girlfriend has a recipe for a sausage soup, the main ingredients are sausage meat, tortellini, broth and assorted diced veggies. I know this is just a basic description, but if I were to pressure can to the longest ingredient time required would it be ok? Just trying to get an idea if you still need to be worried about only using certain recipes or is it ok to use our family recipes when pressure canning.

Could anyone recommend any books or sites geared toward educating someone in customizing recipes or starting recipes from scratch that would be suitable for pressure canning. Any info would be apprciated.

Thanks..Dave

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davejnh(5 NH)

Ok reading some other threads and see pasta is a no-no..lol. So much for the tortellini :).

    Bookmark   September 17, 2006 at 4:33PM
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ksrogers(EasternMass Z6)

Add the torts at the time you open the jars and heat. If it were evn possible to can at home, pasta would surely turn to mush under the times used to process soups.

    Bookmark   September 17, 2006 at 10:37PM
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annie1992

I agree, can the "soup" portion and just add the tortellini at the time you are serving the soup.

Frankly, I was a bit "iffy" on the sausage portion of that formula too, but a quick check with my USDA guide and the Ball Blue Book shows that you CAN can sausage.

Annie

    Bookmark   September 17, 2006 at 10:49PM
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Linda_Lou(SW Wa.)

Soups
Vegetable, dried bean or pea, meat, poultry, or seafood soups can be canned.

Caution: Do not add noodles or other pasta, rice, flour, cream, milk or other thickening agents to home canned soups. If dried beans or peas are used, they must be fully rehydrated first.

Procedure: Select, wash, and prepare vegetables, meat and seafoods as described for the specific foods. Cover meat with water and cook until tender. Cool meat and remove bones. Cook vegetables. For each cup of dried beans or peas, add 3 cups of water, boil 2 minutes, remove from heat, soak 1 hour, and heat to boil; drain.

Combine solid ingredients with meat broth, tomatoes, or water to cover. Boil 5 minutes.
Caution: Do not thicken. Salt to taste, if desired. Fill jars halfway with solid mixture. Add remaining liquid, leaving 1-inch headspace.

Adjust lids and process in a pressure canner , dial gauge use 11 lb. pressure, weighted gauge 10 lb. pressure,
pints 60 min. quarts 75 min.
CAUTION, if it contains seafood, process 100 min.

*I am also adding, no butter may be added.

Here is a link that might be useful: Canning soups.

    Bookmark   September 17, 2006 at 11:18PM
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davejnh(5 NH)

Thanks everyone! Great link Linda:). We are running out of freezer space and want to start canning more.

Annie..we originally bought the pressure canner just for your salsa recipe, everyone loves it:).
Dave

    Bookmark   September 18, 2006 at 7:52AM
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annie1992

I'm glad you like that salsa, Dave, and in return you've caused me to do a little research on things like canning sausage.

I can see some new recipes in my future...

Annie

    Bookmark   September 18, 2006 at 11:30AM
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julsie

I'm so glad someone asked this, because I had the same question! I see lots of chili in my future. And what could be better than a cup of homemade chicken soup when you're sick, except homemade chicken soup that's already made! We're going to have a yummy winter.

Julie

    Bookmark   September 19, 2006 at 1:45PM
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minto

Try canningUSA.com
they have lots of soups.

    Bookmark   September 19, 2006 at 3:26PM
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Winecountrybabe

I am reading this discussion with much interest and then joined this posting site so I could ask about my minestrone that is currently in my pressure cooker. I canned 8 pints, but now am concerned about the 3 Tbsp of butter and 1/2 cup of olive oil that is in the mixture. The rest is just veges and beef broth. I am processing 1 hour and 15 minutes and have followed all of the heat up, venting and cool down instructions as per the sites suggested on this page. Is my soup safe, or do I freeze it? Thoughts?

    Bookmark   September 9, 2012 at 7:50PM
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digdirt2(6b-7a No.Cent. AR HZ8 Sun-35)

3 Tbsp of butter and 1/2 cup of olive oil

Per the guidelines you would have to freeze it. Sorry.

Dave

    Bookmark   September 9, 2012 at 8:41PM
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Linda_Lou(SW Wa.)

Sorry, way too much oil to can it. Needs to be frozen, for sure.

    Bookmark   September 9, 2012 at 10:17PM
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Winecountrybabe

Dave (or linda lou)
Where can I find "the guidelines" for pressure canning soups. Can I use any oil at all to saute soup ingredients? Is there some ratio of ingredients that I need to keep in mind? I would like to have some things canned in case we would lose power for any reason and thus the freezer wouldn't be too useful... I live in earthquake country. Thanks for your speedy replies! I was able to put my soup in the fridge first thing this morning which was less than 24 hours after it came out of the canner.

    Bookmark   September 10, 2012 at 7:38PM
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digdirt2(6b-7a No.Cent. AR HZ8 Sun-35)

Soup canning guidelines linked below. Of special note is the restriction on any pastas or thickeners (add them after opening) and the 1/2 and 1/2 requirement of solids to liquids.

As to oils or any fats ie: butter, dairy, etc., with the exception of a couple of tested and approved recipes, none are allowed per the guidelines. Oil/fat molecules coat/encapsulate bacteria and prevent the heat from penetrating to kill them.

Some people will make a minimal exception for 1 tbls. or so of say a light olive oil for sauteing and then draining well to remove as much of it as possible before adding to the other ingredients. It is your choice to make.

Hope this helps.

Dave

    Bookmark   September 10, 2012 at 9:30PM
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morz8(Washington Coast Z8b)

I don't see the link Dave, is this the one you meant to include?

Here is a link that might be useful: nchfp soups in general

    Bookmark   September 10, 2012 at 10:05PM
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digdirt2(6b-7a No.Cent. AR HZ8 Sun-35)

Yep thanks for catching that!

Dave

    Bookmark   September 10, 2012 at 10:35PM
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JohnDeereGal

I've canned a lot of soups, chili and stews and I want to try one with pasta. I learned to can from my aunts and the first chili I ever canned I of course cooked it for hours just as I would if we were going to eat it then. After that, I only pressured it for 15 minutes (at the advice of my aunt).

I think the books go way overboard on the amount of time to pressure in an abundance of caution. Thus, I'm canning with pasta today for the first time. I made some meatloaf that really didn't turn out so I wanted to save it and I added tomatoes, corn, English peas, green beans, and carrots (all of which I'd already pressure canned this summer). I put one of my jars of pinto beans through the food processor to use as a thickener.

My only question is, do I leave the pasta uncooked. I'm going to pressure my soup for 15 minutes. Has anyone ever tried pasta for a short pressure time like this?

    Bookmark   September 19, 2012 at 9:56AM
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readinglady(z8 OR)

Do I understand correctly that you're planning to make a meatloaf-vegetable soup to which you're adding pinto bean puree and pasta and that you're going to pressure this mixture for 15 minutes?

I would just mention that how long you cook it prior to pressure canning is irrelevant to the processing time and does nothing to ensure safety.

I hope you recognize that the abundance of caution in this case is due to the fact that this sort of meat-and-vegetable mixture poses the highest category of risk for botulism.

What's probably saved you so for is boiling after you open the jar.

Since pasta isn't recommended for processing I'm not sure anyone here has experience with it.

Carol

    Bookmark   September 19, 2012 at 10:25AM
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digdirt2(6b-7a No.Cent. AR HZ8 Sun-35)

While I agree that there is a wide margin of safety built into the approved and standardized guidelines that doesn't men one can justify going to the extreme of disregarding them.

There have many past discussions here about the merits of, or lack thereof, canning advice from family and friends - the old "good enough for Grandma" and the "no one has died from it yet" schools of thought. And while there are canning forums on the web that unfortunately preach that philosophy, most of us here do not.

The guidelines do not simply recommend against using pastas and other thickeners, they specifically prohibit it based on scientific lab testing results. Nor do they ever suggest one can guess/estimate the processing time required.

And they make very clear the dangerous differences between an aerobic (exposed to air) and an anaerobic (sealed in a vacuum) environment on bacterial growth and the toxins produced.

So what you have done in the past and plan to do with your pasta soups and the processing times you choose to use is your choice of course, your risk to take. But it's not something to be advocated for others and I hope you will reconsider taking the time to better understand the current approved guidelines for safe home canning.

We here would be happy to help with that.

Dave

    Bookmark   September 19, 2012 at 11:30AM
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JohnDeereGal

I'm thrilled to find a place where people are discussing a topic that I enjoy so much but it's clear from reading the posts that I have a different experience than some folks do. I learned to can from my family. When I wanted to know how long to process something, I would call my aunts. One of them tends to fly by the seat of her pants and the other is very conservative - I normally ask the opinion of both. In the case of chili, one said "Well if you've cooked it down as if you were going to eat it, I'd say 10 minutes is plenty". The other said 20. I pressured it for 15. I was not saved because I boiled it. I've eaten it right out of the jar. It wasn't until years later that I read the "books" and when I did I was shocked. I wasn't trying to be a canning outlaw or anything, it's just I learned from the fact that I'd done it for years and never had a problem that the books tend to be quite cautious. I'm surely not asking a soul to substitute their own judgment for that of mine.

I have raw packed chicken and canned it and yes, I used the recommended processing time. This is actually how I learned about the "books" because when I asked my aunts about this, neither had ever raw packed chicken. Logic would tell me that if it has to go from cold and raw to bacteria free, it will take more time than from hot and near bacteria free to get the rest of the way there.

I can well over 1,000 jars a year so I'm not a newbie. Over the years, I've become much more relaxed about canning and much more adventurous. I learned I don't like all that vinegar in my tomatoes because I don't like the taste so I don't use vinegar (or lemon juice). I also created recipes for stews, soups, chili, spaghetti sauce with meat etc.. without using any book. I don't know why the books say don't thicken; my split pea soup with ham is super thick. So today, yes I'm going to try pasta in my thickened stew which is actually something I've canned many times with potatoes instead of pasta. It may not work and I may throw away a few jars trying something new but I'm still going to try because that's how I learn and it's what I enjoy. I've decided I'm not going to cook the pasta ahead of time but I'm going to thin my stew a little more so there's lots of liquid to absorb.

    Bookmark   September 19, 2012 at 11:33AM
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digdirt2(6b-7a No.Cent. AR HZ8 Sun-35)

Many of us here learned to can from family members. Probably that is true of most of us. But we have also taken the time over the years - 50+ years of canning for me and the wife - to learn and incorporate the progressive changes and all the research that has developed over the years.

One soon comes to understand that much of what we learned decades ago was either mis-understood, has since been proven to be highly risky, or was just flat out wrong. It is no disrespect to those family members to learn, move on and adjust our thinking.

And many of us here share your canning experience of 1000's of jars a year as well. But a 1000 jars can just as easily be improperly canned as 5 jars can.

NCHFP, the recognized authority on home food processing, is a wealth of information - both techniques and underlying theory. And several regulars here have also taken classes, both certified and non-certified, taught certified classes, have MFP certification, or work for county extension offices as a canning resource information officer.

Cooking can be an adventure if you wish but canning is a science and can be quite risky when experimented with. So I wish you continued luck, lots of it, in your canning adventures. Personally I have learned my lessons over the years and choose to practice canning science. That way I have no concerns about sharing my home canned produce with my kids, my grandchildren or my friends and neighbors. :)

Dave

Here is a link that might be useful: NCHFP

    Bookmark   September 19, 2012 at 12:59PM
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JohnDeereGal

Dave, I'm glad you have a lot of experience but I see a ton of fear mongering here. If I had such horrible unsafe practices then in all of the thousands upon thousands of jars I've canned, someone would have been ill.

I'd like for people to experience the joy of canning without the fear that they're going to kill someone because of something truly benign. Instead if it doesn't fit on the pages of the Blue book, the inference is you're going to die if you try it.

It's this kind of thinking that fines kids for startig a lemonade stand.

    Bookmark   September 19, 2012 at 2:42PM
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readinglady(z8 OR)

We've said many times we're not the canning police and anyone who processes food is free to follow the practices they are comfortable with.

I wouldn't assume, though, that those of us who recommend a science-based approach have learned only from books or are theoretical. I grew up in a farming family and both my husband and I come from multi-generational canning backgrounds. Like Dave, I can count 50+ years of canning experience.

But just as my father applied scientific research to the crops he grew and the cattle and hogs he bred, so in the home we kept in touch with Extension service recommendations and USDA updates.

Model T's may be charming artifacts, but I wouldn't want to drive one on a daily basis. We've come a long ways since those days. And one person's or family's experience, even with 1,000's of jars, is not statistically meaningful.

The problem is not what any one of us chooses to do, it's what we recommend to novice canners. Some have "winged it" with what they put in jars and lived to tell the tale. They have been fortunate and may even perhaps have a particularly resistant immune system, but bacteria are not static. They mutate and develop stronger more resistant strains at the same time that more medically fragile individuals are surviving. It's not a happy combination of factors.

Carol

    Bookmark   September 19, 2012 at 2:50PM
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digdirt2(6b-7a No.Cent. AR HZ8 Sun-35)

"Fear mongering" is an awfully strong word to use for what are basically just differences of opinion. And an awfully rude label to use by someone who just joined the forum today and knows little to nothing about all of us who have been here for years.

More importantly, how does it follow that using safe and approved canning practices somehow prevents anyone from experiencing the joys of canning? If anything, a working knowledge of the guidelines - something we work hard to share with others - makes it an even more enjoyable experience because it is done without fear.

There is a whole swamp world of unsafe and some downright lethal canning advice, recipes, and opinions floating around on the web these days. Posts here fro years reflect that poor quality information. Whole blogs and forums are out there devoted to nothing more than denouncing NCHFP and USDA guidelines because they are supposedly "too restrictive" or simply because they are government funded.

But this forum's members have always worked hard to avoid contributing to that quagmire. We try to assure home canners they can come here and know they will get safety-based answers to their questions. It is then their choice as to which advice they will accept, which path they will take.

Debate and discussion is always welcome but when push comes to shove scientific results will always trump personal opinion or anecdotes.

Dave

    Bookmark   September 19, 2012 at 3:19PM
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JohnDeereGal

You know what Dave, why don't we just try starting over? I thought your reply to me was rude and I replied in kind.

I love gardening and canning and I come from a long line of farmers; some of significant size. The implication that my success was nothing more than luck is something I took very personally.

I'd like to stick around a while at least as I enjoy the topic and I'm not here to argue.

I'd bet you and I have way more things in common when it comes to canning than not.

I forgive what I perceived to be as rudeness from you and I hope you'll do the same.

    Bookmark   September 19, 2012 at 4:41PM
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JohnDeereGal

Crickets...... Hmmmm

    Bookmark   September 19, 2012 at 10:30PM
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digdirt2(6b-7a No.Cent. AR HZ8 Sun-35)

Sorry but I didn't see your reply until I got an email alerting me to it or I would have replied earlier.

I didn't intend anything rude with the luck comment but the truth is that in all aspects of life the further one wanders from accepted norms the more luck plays a role.

And I sure have no problems with starting over. But it's only fair to let you know up front that I always come down on the side of the guidelines. I'm a firm believer in the importance of them and do not find them limiting in any way.

Lots of newbie lurkers here who read extensively but never post or question in public and I believe it is important to avoid inadvertently misleading any of them with potentially risky info. Especially when there is so much of that kind of info already available to them.

Dave

    Bookmark   September 20, 2012 at 7:50PM
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JohnDeereGal

"Only fair to let me know?" Seriously? That's your attempt at starting over?

It's "accepted norm" that you go to prison for destoying an Eagle's nest but you can murder a baby at the drop of a hat. I'm not much of an "accepted norm" person. I follow my convictions rather than that of others.

Guess we'll just have to agree to disagree. I'm so done with this conversation.

    Bookmark   September 21, 2012 at 10:33AM
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digdirt2(6b-7a No.Cent. AR HZ8 Sun-35)

It's "accepted norm" that you go to prison for destoying an Eagle's nest but you can murder a baby at the drop of a hat.

Geeze! Talk about going off the deep end!! What on earth does destroying eagle's nests and killing babies have to do with home food canning?

This is a food preservation forum. That is its focus. So yes, it is normal to make a positional statement about a firm belief in the standard guidelines of home food preservation. That is what is discussed here - home food preservation.

It is not however a soap box for preaching personal beliefs about highly controversial causes. You want to talk canning? Fine. You want to talk about killing babies or environmental issues then go over to the Hot Topics forum. But don't try to tie the food preservation guidelines to killing babies.

Dave

    Bookmark   September 21, 2012 at 11:19AM
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kalindi615

Normally I would gladly completely stay out of an argument like this one. But as a newbie who does ask advise from this forum, I find this a bit disconcerting. I know and have grown to trust immensely that I am getting good advise from Dave and Carol. I also automatically give a heavier weight of trust to anyone else on this forum than I do to other web sites or forums I have found on the internet and even over a couple of cookbooks I have after reading some of the threads on this forum.

With that being said I hope when you are giving your advice out JohnDeereGal, you are prefacing it with "this is not by the guidelines" if it is not. I say this because I am a stickler for the rules and while I do appreciate that you have many years of pratical experience under your belt without harming anyone (as did my grandmother), I am feeding my two toddlers my canned goods and have absolutely no interest in playing "adventurous cook".

I imagine that a lot of the resurgence in interest in canning are people like me, who are trying to feed their children healthier food options. To me it is completely counterintuitive to take something I am trying to make healthy and play fast and loose with the proven scientific research.

    Bookmark   September 21, 2012 at 1:41PM
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bcskye

JohnDeereGal, sorry, but I had to jump into this conversation. I am a Cerified Food Preserver, as Dave mentioned several of us are, as well as several on here higher up on the preserving ladder. I've been canning for 49 years and watched my mother can before me. When I started canning, they still used wax to top jellies, jams and preserves. There were several other methods used over the the years that have been discovered to not be safe. We do give a lot of advice to newbies and a lot of others that come to this site using unsafe methods. I don't care how many years someone has been canning or their ancestors have canned, like my mother, grandmother and greats, or how much they can per year, I absolutely refuse to say its safe to use methods that are unsafe by today's standards. Everyone is free to preserve food in whatever method they choose and if you're happy with what you're doing, do it that way. However, don't tell other preservers, especially newbies, that it's perfectly safe. And to be honest with you, Dear, I feel that it was truly unnecessary, distasteful and totally impertinent to make the comments about eagle's nests and babies.

    Bookmark   September 22, 2012 at 11:58AM
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jxbrown(z10/24 SD, CA)

JohnDeereGal: you are right that most of the time you will get away with less than optimal canning practices, however why would you really want to take the risk? We've come to view canned goods as a convenience item. If you ask most people to name something "canned", they would answer "soup". Really though home canning is about preserving food. It's really not that difficult to open canned broth, tomatoes and beans, for instance, to make a pot of soup quickly. It's more flexible, too. I like to play with my recipes and i like to have plenty of building blocks ready to do so.

Not to pile on, but it's best if we stick to discussing food and keep religion and politics for more appropriate forums. There's a place to discuss every possible subject on the web!

    Bookmark   September 24, 2012 at 7:43AM
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bridin

Hello my name is Eva and I am a newbie to canning. I have been thinking of canning one of my soups, actually the only one that I love. The recipe is 1 package of hamburger meat, browned. Potatoes 6-7, can of kernel corn, 1 can tomato sauce and el pato to taste. What I do is brown meat and set aside. Cut potatoes into big chunks, and set to boil. Then I boil until it is thick, then add all the ingredients and soup is done. I would love to can this, but haven't figured out which recipe would be closest for canning times. Also, I read that if it's too thick, it might not heat all the way through, but the thickness is what we love. Any suggestions? Thanks in advance.

    Bookmark   November 1, 2014 at 11:39AM
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digdirt2(6b-7a No.Cent. AR HZ8 Sun-35)

Hi Eva - several of the posts above include a link to the "How to can soups" instructions on the NCHFP website. I linked it below for your convenience.

Those instructions should answer all your questions. There is no problem with any of the ingredients you list but the "thickness" will be the problem. Please note in the instructions the "half and half" rule for soups - each jar contains 1/2 solids and 1/2 liquids to allow for full heat penetration. Any further thickening is done only AFTER the jars are opened.

Hope this helps.

Dave

Here is a link that might be useful: NCHFP - How to can soups

    Bookmark   November 1, 2014 at 1:03PM
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bridin

Hi Dave and thanks for responding. It sort of helps, lol. I think that if I do half and half rule, then I would after the canning, thicken the soup with starch? Is that what you are saying? Would make for interesting soup making time and cut a lot of the time off for sure. An interesting experiment to do.

    Bookmark   November 12, 2014 at 2:09PM
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digdirt2(6b-7a No.Cent. AR HZ8 Sun-35)

No, not what I or the guidelines are suggesting. I suppose thickening it with cornstarch or flour or the thickener of choice would be an option but, depending on the recipe, simply draining off some of the excess liquid after opening the jar is the usual approach.

Your recipe above has little to no liquid in it so technically wouldn't qualify as a soup. It is more of a stew, so you'd have to add some sort of liquid like beef broth to can it as a soup, then drain after opening. Otherwise can it as a stew.

Dave

    Bookmark   November 12, 2014 at 4:01PM
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2ajsmama

It sounds like other than the meat and potatoes, the rest is canned food? So just to save time, what about canning or freezing the pre-browned ground meat, canning the potatoes, then boiling the potatoes more when you open them to get the thickness you want, adding the rest of the ingredients as usual? That way you'd save at least some of the time spent browning meat and cooking potatoes. It sounds like you don't do much but warm after adding the corn, tomato sauce and el pato (? I looked it up and it's a brand name, I'm assuming canned seasoned tomatoes or some kind of hot sauce, they make a number of products).

    Bookmark   November 12, 2014 at 4:11PM
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2ajsmama

My goodness, did you see this? It's old news, but I wonder if the problem has been corrected and if it's been retested? If you have older bottles of hot sauce in your pantry you might want to check the date.

I'll search for updates and post results.

Here is a link that might be useful: Lead in hot sauce

    Bookmark   November 12, 2014 at 4:18PM
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