Lately discovered this site, how about roses!

jim_w_ny(Zone 5a)April 17, 2005

Roses and Antique Roses has turned mostly into a membership of warm climate gardeners. With those on the West Coast and South dominating.

I am about the only local gardener that tries to grow roses. Thus am the expert although I've only been at it here for 12 years, prior in CA. MG, Oldroser and Estevinho (Steve??) have all been helpful with advice, MG especially with seedlings. MG, Mad Gallica, I don't know if she posts here but lives in Rheinbeck. bek?

Anyway also as a Cornell Master Gardener, class of '94, I get to pretend expertise before the willing and interested at our annual Spring Gardening Day. This year I worked like a slave on a Power Point talk about roses that was well received, and I got 11 of the 22 to sign up for the Hudson River Rose Club. We'll see how many keep up their interest.

There is of course an American Rose Society in Dutchess but I hate driving and so will try to get a small group going here so we can trade plants, garden visits and experience. Anyone interested drop me an email.

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I had no idea there was a course in Dutchess County. Where in Dutchess is it? I am a total newbie so not much help to you. Sorry! I just started gardening a year ago and I really want to try planting some roses this year...

    Bookmark   April 17, 2005 at 2:21PM
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For Master Gardening in Dutchess try Cooperative Extension in Millbrook.
Mid-Hudson Rose society is in Kingston though it covers Dutchess as well.
Mad Gallica is in Red Hook not Rhinebeck.
Lots of people growing roses in Dutchess County. Rose Day America is April 30th and there will be seminars on growing roses at Lowe's in the Galleria in Poughkeepsie.
Tell us more about your Hudson River Rose Club, Jim.

    Bookmark   April 18, 2005 at 6:56AM
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jim_w_ny(Zone 5a)


I did get my name straight but not much else.

Anyway 11 of the 22 that came to hear me signed up for the club. We'll see how sustaining their interest is. I would guess I'll be lucky to find 3 or 4 who stay with it. Like I said I hate driving so was hoping to find some interested people here in Columbia County. The first meeting will be in my garden sometime early June, date to be set as the season and weather forecast proceeds. Then we'll see what's next. Hopefully a couple will have roses to go look at and maybe we'll get an email/phone thing going. Eventually trade some cuttings and share experiences with our latest choices. That's about it so far.

Anyone with Power Point can have a look at my talk. I have it on a CD or the Dell USB storage device. It would be quite a pain to download as it is about 9 megs. Lot's of pictures.

    Bookmark   April 18, 2005 at 11:51AM
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robbiezone5(z5 HudsonValley)

hmph, jim... i always thought the "W" in your screen id name meant "west" and you lived in western nys. anyhow --- i'd be interested in a hudson river rose club. i'm _VERY_ new to old roses (and gardening in general, really). but --- i've learned tons on this web site from reading posts, and asking occasional questions. i live in brooklyn heights, but we have a home in columbia county. we're there only on weekends to escape from the city -- occasionally, we'll stay for a week. as for your hudson river rose club, i would suggest a web site where you can offer photos/text of past meetings/excursions. also --- announce upcomming events. maybe compile an email list to email people and let them know that a meeting is coming up. i think people just get busy. for me, personally, i know it is difficult to schedule regular meetings. but there is a group of people here, in nyc, that i follow through their web site. they are not rose people, more like urban explorers. but, like i said, while i don't have time to attend all their scheduled outtings, i do read-up about them on their web site.

    Bookmark   April 18, 2005 at 12:18PM
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jim_w_ny(Zone 5a)

My daughters who are into web site designing are always asking if I want them to do one for me. Now I'll say yes!

    Bookmark   April 18, 2005 at 8:31PM
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I'd sure be interested in a HRRC! I am in Putnam, but I wouldn't find Columbia County too distant. Although I've only been seriously into roses for a short time, and I learn a lot from GW forums and reading like mad from any source possible, there's nothing like in-person info sharing. Also visiting others' gardens who are more experienced than I.

Capital idea, Jim_W_NY (I thought the W_NY meant western NY, too)

    Bookmark   April 19, 2005 at 3:56PM
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jim_w_ny(Zone 5a)

W stands for Wright my mothers family. Unrelated to the flyer as far as I know. With a name like Jim you need some other distinguishing part of your sign on as the first Jim took it all. Never thought it might be interpreted as Western NY. Where is that anyway?

All these folks who said they were interested in joining the HVRC have been invited to my garden in early June, haven't picked a date yet. But will email everybody. If Tuxman and Robbie are interested please send your email address to GW hides them. I thought I could look in properties but it didn't work.

    Bookmark   April 19, 2005 at 5:55PM
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robbiezone5(z5 HudsonValley)

i always think of "western new york" as buffalo/rochester area.

just sent you an email. please keep me posted!


    Bookmark   April 22, 2005 at 12:24PM
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estevinho(z5 Eastern NY)

Jim, best of luck in this worthy endeavor!

For those who find Columbia County too far away, there are existing rose Societies in Kingston, Newburgh, and the Capital Region. I've included a link with contact information (Somebody should tell the ARS Newburgh wants its h back!)

This is a nice place to grow roses. I eagerly look forward to my first blooms sometime next month.

Here is a link that might be useful: Rose Societies In New York District

    Bookmark   April 22, 2005 at 2:59PM
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jim_w_ny(Zone 5a)

When I first moved here from California in '92 and was cleared with a mental test, Kay and Steve were very helpful first on the old web site, the RoseList I think it was called, and later with many many seedlings. Curious to know if Estevinho is in any way related. And since '92 I have been struggling to adapt to the very different climate and soil here.

Planted about 250 roses and have about half left. Most of the deaths being cheap hybrid teas but also some Austins and other quasi hardy types I knew in CA.

As I mentioned in my post I really made an effort to get in the car and go to Kingston or Albany for ARS meetings but couldn't manage it. Too much driving for 25 years in LA. So I'm trying a mini group here. First meeting in my garden. How convenient is that! We'll see what happens after that.

And if it is Steve (and Kay) please come again and see what's been going on with roses.

    Bookmark   April 22, 2005 at 8:27PM
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klavier(Z7 Baltimore)

Oh yes! People who know roses! I have had a question for a long time about what kind of roses do best around here. Most of the ones I plant never come back (probably frozen to death). I do not mulch of protect my roses over the winter. I figure if I have to do that much work to keep them, they are not worth having. Are there roses that do not need winter protection and require minimal maintenance?

    Bookmark   April 22, 2005 at 10:43PM
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estevinho(z5 Eastern NY)

Well if you can grow Arils in this wet climate, roses should be easy. Anyway, the challenges are different. What are your best performing Arilbreds?

Back to roses, look around. Of course there are roses that don't need winter protection. As far as "minimal maintenance" is concerned, it depends on what you mean by "minimal maintenance". Given a decent location and well dug soil, plenty or roses will thrive given the same level of care you would give any flowering shrub. Roses that require considerably more specialized care than that aren't likely to thrive under my stewardship.

Rosa rugosa and its hybrids is an obvious place to start. Hardy, disease resistant, repeat flowering, fragrant.

Most of the Canadian Explorer roses from Agriculture Canada are real good performers. Some of the older ones are rugosa hybrids. Others are large, robust shrubs. I'm finally starting to grow some of the smallere Explorers to see what they bring to the party.

Don't overlook the Old European once blooming roses. Pimpinellifolias, gallicas and albas are among my best roses. For about three weeks, they put on an incomparable show. Many are good looking plants throughout the year.

There are some excellent roses here among our North American natives. Rosa setigera is as good a zone 5 climber as I know. Rosa virginiana, Rosa palustris and Rosa nitida are all beautiful for their foliage and canes as well as their flowers.

From the first bloom on Rosa hugonis to the last bloom on Rosa setigera, I get about three months of bloom just from my once bloomers.

Beyond this, there are some excellent roses among the mixed bag of "Modern Shrubs", many underwhelming roses too, but I don't worry about them.

So where does one see roses?

Mid-Hudson Roses Society's Rose show is Sunday June 12 at Esopus Town Hall. Newburgh Rose Society is having their show the following weekend. I'll probably be doing an open garden here in Northern Dutchess that same weekend, whichever day Newburgh's show isn't.

    Bookmark   April 23, 2005 at 10:32PM
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jim_w_ny(Zone 5a)

Just where is Esopus Town Hall? What a name and how do you pronounce it? If I had a knock down dead flower could I enter it?

Well and I can't even keep Red Hook and Rheinbeck straight. Southeners!

    Bookmark   April 24, 2005 at 6:01AM
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estevinho(z5 Eastern NY)

The common pronunciation has the accent on the second syllable. Esopus Town Hall is in Port Ewen, on the west side of Route 9W about a mile south of the Rondout Creek.

    Bookmark   April 24, 2005 at 8:55AM
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Eee-SOAP-us. Just south of Kingston on 9W - the town hall is at the main traffic light in Port Ewen. We generally get a good display of old roses and shrubs - a bit skimpy on hybrid teas and floribundas but a fair amount of minis depending on the season.
Exhibitors should never prejudge their roses but just enter everything they have. The judges earn their lunch by making decisions.
Newburgh's show is on Saturday, 6/18. If your garden doesn't bloom for one, it should for the other.
Incidentally, the Albany area rose society is in Schenectady.
Jim, put me on your list of those interested in your rose club.
Adams says they are going to be stocking some shrub roses this year - let's hope there are some of the Canadian varieties among them. Phantom Gardener in Rhinebeck also has them. And Claire's in Patterson, NY has a lot though their plants are pricey - but you pay for getting them well grown in bud or bloom.

    Bookmark   April 25, 2005 at 9:44PM
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I also spoke with the manager at Adams (Kingston) months ago, about getting roses that are hardy here. Tea roses are annuals in this area.

Thanks for the list of roses, Estevinho. Are there any carefree roses for this area that bloom all summer and are heavily scented? I can't see spending so much energy on roses that don't smell! Just my preference.

    Bookmark   April 26, 2005 at 7:25AM
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estevinho(z5 Eastern NY)

For fragrant, hardy, disease resistant, repeat blooming roses, rugosas are a good place to start. Rosa rugosa has a delicious clove scent. I like the species selections Rosa rugosa Alba and Rosa rugosa Rubra as much as any rugosas, but there are many good varieties.

Yes, the otherwise estimable roses from Agriculture Canada are not known for their fragrance. Many of my best "Landscaping shrubs" Seafoam for example, also lack fragrance.

After this, it tends towards onesy-twosies. Jacques Cartier is an all around excellent rose. Large, very full flowers are powdery pink with an excellent wafting fragrance. Foliage has excellent disease resistance.

I really don't know a so-called hybrid musk that is both hardy and fragrant. I have a feeling if I continue looking I will find one, but this is hardly a recommendation. Will Scarlet is an excellent rose, though mine is not fragrant. Hmm. I guess Darlow's Enigma is listed as a Hybrid Musk. It is cane hardy for me, and very disease resistant. It is a big horse of a rose. In a garden of large roses, Darlow's Enigma might be the champion of biomass. It blooms in large clusters of small, pure white, nearly single flowers. Each flower is punctuated with a brilliant boss of stamens. The fragrance is excellent and carries well. It has the best repeat of any rose I grow. The foliage has an elegant look to it, different from most of the hardy roses I grow. This rose may be hard to find commercially, but it is easy to root from a cutting.

Among "Modern Shrubs", most are over-rated here in our wet zone 5. Some Austins are very good, with Heritage and Lilian Austin being two of our best. Heritage is a shell pink, with an excellent Lemon Zinger fragrance. Lilian Austin is an interesting color, sometimes brick red, sometimes tomato soup, sometimes a perfectly acceptable pink blend. I'm not sure I like it, but it is an excellent performer. Some Buck roses are OK. Earthsong has been our best performer of the Bucks. In terms of pure hardiness, it is disappointing, but it grows back more vigorously than most. It is very floriferous. The flowers are a good pink. It has a sweet fragrance, underlaid with an enticing pungence.

Get some good, reliable roses in your garden, then you'll be free to experiment.

Others may know other good ones. I love my repeat bloomers, but most of my best roses are once bloomers. Few if any repeaters can catch up to what these roses do in their season.

    Bookmark   April 26, 2005 at 9:26PM
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Auntbebe(z5 NY)


If anyone is looking for Darlow's Enigma, Ashdown Roses in S.C., carries it. They have a great website, breaking down roses by class, zone and color. I ordered 4 roses last week and was very impressed by their speed and packaging.

Now, if I could only keep the deer away...........


    Bookmark   May 27, 2005 at 8:38PM
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kareen(z5 NY Renss.Co.)

Hi Jim ,
May I suggest you post a blurb on your rose happenings on the Upstate NY forum site also.I am in Rensselaer Co. and wouldn't hesitate to travel to the Chatham area for a rose presentation and expect others may feel the same. Kareen

Here is a link that might be useful: Our pond and gardens

    Bookmark   May 28, 2005 at 8:38AM
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I was in Jim's garden last Saturday - blazingly hot and the roses looked great. Hope my pictures come out. Tended to stick close to the porch and iced tea but saw a lot of Kordes roses (some old friends I shovel pruned years ago when they froze back thoroughly every winter), Hippolyte and Charles de Mills, Jenny Duval and R. canina and a lot of others.
Did you get enough people to start a club? - it only takes three or four dedicated rose growers. If so, I could come to some meetings since you're only about 40 miles away.

    Bookmark   June 28, 2005 at 6:49PM
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jim_w_ny(Zone 5a)


I had 22 in my rose talk and half indicated an interest in a "club". Well managed to get only 4 of them here Saturday although a couple more will come another day. And of course Robbie above and Carol or Carolyn who saw my invite on this site.

My daughters have promised to get up something called a V site and host it. That will allow posting messages and pictures so we can keep up with what we are doing rose wise.

Yes I'm sure at some point we would love to have you come and talk.

Newly opened: Orange Triumph, Baltimore Belle more but not yet full, American Pillar same, Morgengruss, Ilse Krohn, Illusion buds showing color and nearly open, one of my Robustas going full steam, Sunrise, Leverkusen, the other Lavender Lassie, etc.

Sumaya cutting roses for the house so it is yet another pleasure of rose growing.

    Bookmark   June 28, 2005 at 8:53PM
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