Nematodes?

lavendargrrl(7b Apex, NC)May 8, 2014

I only have had to deal with Nematodes once before. I will get this hosta out of my bed ASAP if that's what's going on. What do you think?

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don_in_colorado

Not totally sure what that is in your pic, Angie, but I'll repeat what I've learned on this great forum.

I do believe it's too early for nematode symptoms to appear on hostas. As far as the general look of it, check out the pic I lifted off the University of Missouri website:

You see how in the U of M pic, the damage extends ALL THE WAY from vein to vein on the leaf of the plant, leaving nothing but damage and ruining all the green color in between the veins? I have a Paul's Glory that, last year, had very similar-looking damage to the leaf as yours does now. I was shown a pic like I'm showing you, with nasty, clearly vein-to-vein damage evident. I'm guessing your leaf damage is weather-related (frost/freeze).

I'm a hosta enthusiast for sure, but just as sure, I'm no expert. I may haved learned just enough to be dangerous : ) So, anyone, if you read anything wrong here, please correct me. I don't want to let my enthusiasm be responsible for any bad info.

I don't think I'm steering you wrong here though, Angie. This is what I learned here. Just one more reason this is such a fantastic forum.

Thanks,
Don B.

    Bookmark   May 8, 2014 at 12:39AM
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Moccasin(z9aMobileAL)

Never saw nematode damage that was not from vein to vein. Not a hole but inside the tissue, where it turns brown from one vein to the next. I'll see if I can find a couple of mine from 2012, when I first saw such damage.

Don't know what you have going on. But someone will recognize where it comes from.

    Bookmark   May 8, 2014 at 12:41AM
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lavendargrrl(7b Apex, NC)

Thanks so much, Don and mocc. We did have a couple of nights where the temps dipped down below the frost point when many of my hostas were already opening. Fingers crossed that this is related to that!

    Bookmark   May 8, 2014 at 6:46AM
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ken_adrian Adrian MI cold Z5

not vein to vein..

and no coloration ...

is it one of the oldest leaves??? .. if so.. frost damage.. or some long gone bug ...

track down the petiole.. and rip it out ...

and keep an eye on it...

the first thing i was going to say ... was that its probably way to early to see such ...

pic of the whole might be interesting...

ken

    Bookmark   May 8, 2014 at 6:47AM
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lavendargrrl(7b Apex, NC)

Ken, there are actually 3 leaves like that on this plant. Not sure if it's the oldest leaves. Maybe.

    Bookmark   May 8, 2014 at 9:34AM
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ken_adrian Adrian MI cold Z5

its not the oldest leaves ...

look at the crown.. all new leaves come from inside the swirl of celery stalks ... the ones on the edge are the oldest.. and right now.. the largest.. the ones falling toward ground ...

i will defer to chris on this one... there is something wonky ... but i dont think its nems ... and i am not up on virus ... NOT THAT I SEE IT ... i dont know ...

DO NOT DIG IT UP YET ....

do you know how to contact hallsons if he should not pop in???

ken

    Bookmark   May 8, 2014 at 10:31AM
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Jon

Ripping off the affected leaves and spraying with insecticidal soap will help if it is nematodes (or most other 'bugs') It won't hurt and has a good possibility of helping. I don't think there is any downside.

Jon

    Bookmark   May 8, 2014 at 10:42AM
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lavendargrrl(7b Apex, NC)

Ken, I don't know how to contact Chris, actually. Why not dig it up if I'm careful to clean my tools well with bleach after? I am going to bet that is a seedling and not anything I planted anyway..

    Bookmark   May 8, 2014 at 10:48AM
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Jon

Lavender, You picture shows vein to vein damage, so I don't get the 'not' vein to vein responses. As to just digging it up, the nematodes are certainly in the area and will re-infect whatever you plant. I would suggest you flood the area with a 10% solution of bleach or ammonia to kill the nematodes which appear to be the problem.

Nematodes can spread extensively, so I would suggest, treatment of your entire garden would be what I would recommend and certainly what I would do.

Jon

    Bookmark   May 8, 2014 at 11:46AM
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lavendargrrl(7b Apex, NC)

Jon, might you be seeing the nematode example pics provided by others instead of my plant? Mine is at the very top of the thread. My leaf doesn't show the damage literally covering the entire area between the veins.

    Bookmark   May 8, 2014 at 12:27PM
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Babka NorCal 9b

Lavendargrrl-

Chris is at Hallson Gardens.

-Babka

Here is a link that might be useful: Link to Hallson Gardens website

    Bookmark   May 8, 2014 at 1:31PM
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ken_adrian Adrian MI cold Z5

jon .... there is no evidence of nems..PERIOD ....

it is NOT vein to vein

never flood your garden with bleach ..

they are inside the plant.. of what use is to flood your garden??? ..plus .. you will kill every worm the bleach hits ...

lav ..... google hallson gardens.. find the email ... and copy past this post link into a note.. and invite his comment ....

there is some weirdness .. that MIGHT be a virus... and i will yell... I AM NOT QUALIFIED FOR YOU TO ACT ON WHAT I THINK ABOUT THIS ...

the newest two leaves.. dead center.. look improperly crinkly ... it could be cold damage.. or something else... or they just havent filled out yet ... just too brand new ...

and if chris says its nems.. i will apologize to jon ... but still wonder where the 10% bleach slug killing theory works on nems???? .. or sterilizing soil after removal ...

do understand.. there are billions of nems in a shovelful of soil ... very few.. if not one.. are bad ... you will not live in a new free world ....

ken

    Bookmark   May 8, 2014 at 1:58PM
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lavendargrrl(7b Apex, NC)

Thanks Babka and Ken. I sent a message to Chris.

    Bookmark   May 8, 2014 at 5:26PM
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don_in_colorado

I don't see it in pic #1. Do not see it.

Don B.

    Bookmark   May 8, 2014 at 6:09PM
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ctopher_mi

Hi,

If it is the oldest leaves only (the first ones to unfurl) it could be frost/freeze damage to the backs of the leaves that happened when it was just a spike out of the ground. If that was the case you will see some bubbling and separations of the outer tissue layer on the back of those leaves. It is nothing other than cosmetic if that is the case, and you can just take those leaves off.

The other possibility, though this seems early for it, is spider mite damage. These also feed on the backs of the leaves and then the damage shows up on the front after they suck enough sap out of the leaves. Again, looks at the back of the leaves to see what is happening. You will likely see the problem then.

I've also heard that thrips are now being found on hostas. I've never see what the damage looks like, but you will see that on the back too.

Like others have mentioned it is far too early to see nematode damage and it looks totally different.

Let us know or post pictures of the backside of these leaves.

Chris

    Bookmark   May 8, 2014 at 6:28PM
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bernd ny zone5(5)

That does not look like nematode damage, something else. I see some nematode damage every year in my garden, and that is vein to vein and looks like light beige paper.

    Bookmark   May 8, 2014 at 6:31PM
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lavendargrrl(7b Apex, NC)

Thanks so much, Chris. I'm leaning toward spider mites. There are sw fine webs on some of the leaves. However, I also have some pics of the backside of several leaves.

    Bookmark   May 8, 2014 at 7:47PM
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lavendargrrl(7b Apex, NC)

Another leaf

    Bookmark   May 8, 2014 at 7:49PM
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lavendargrrl(7b Apex, NC)

Notice the 'bumpiness'

    Bookmark   May 8, 2014 at 7:53PM
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lavendargrrl(7b Apex, NC)

Here is an unaffected leaf from the same plant

    Bookmark   May 8, 2014 at 7:55PM
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lavendargrrl(7b Apex, NC)

By the way Ken, I think the leaves that are affected really are the outer leaves. Upon closer inspection it looks like they were just all twisted up in the inside of the plant but they were the outer leaves.

    Bookmark   May 8, 2014 at 7:57PM
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don_in_colorado

Angie, thank you for showing us the pics of the leafbacks. Spider Mites are new to me, and something certainly worth knowing about. Good luck with those nasty little suckers.

Thanks again, Chris from Hallson Gardens. An amazing troubleshooter you are.

Don B.

    Bookmark   May 9, 2014 at 12:59AM
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lavendargrrl(7b Apex, NC)

Yes, thanks so much for your input on this, Chris. Does this seem like spider mites? I guess I better read up on the proper treatment.
Angie

    Bookmark   May 9, 2014 at 7:05AM
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Jon

MANAGEMENT

Spider mites have many natural enemies that often limit populations. Adequate irrigation is important, because water-stressed plants are most likely to be damaged. Broad-spectrum insecticide treatments for other pests frequently cause mite outbreaks, so avoid these pesticides when possible. Sprays of water, insecticidal oils, or soaps can be used for management. Always monitor mite levels before treatment.

Cultural Control

Cultural practices can have a significant impact on spider mites. Dusty conditions often lead to mite outbreaks. Apply water to pathways and other dusty areas at regular intervals. Water-stressed trees and plants are less tolerant of spider mite damage. Be sure to provide adequate irrigation. Midíseason washing of trees and vines with water to remove dust may help prevent serious late-season mite infestations.

In gardens and on small fruit trees, regular, forceful spraying of plants with water often will reduce spider mite numbers adequately. Be sure to get good coverage, especially on the undersides of leaves. If more control is required, use an insecticidal soap or oil in your spray, but test the product on one or two plants to be sure it isnâÂÂt damaging to them.

Jon

Here is a link that might be useful: UC link

    Bookmark   May 9, 2014 at 7:05AM
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lavendargrrl(7b Apex, NC)

Thanks, Jon. My plants are definitely not water stressed, though my hosta bed is in desperate need of mulch. I'm working on getting things back in order around here. We've had TONS of rain (last year and so far this year we've had plenty as well). I can see lots of dust on the plants because we haven't had rain for a bit. I think it's going to rain tomorrow. Thanks again.

    Bookmark   May 9, 2014 at 7:10AM
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ken_adrian Adrian MI cold Z5

wish you would have numbered the pix...

third one immediately after chris' reply ...

is the one i dont like ...

link below ...

ken

Here is a link that might be useful:

    Bookmark   May 9, 2014 at 9:31AM
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lavendargrrl(7b Apex, NC)

Ken, I know. That's the picture I thought was most concerning, too. The surface looks sort of bubbly on the underside.

    Bookmark   May 9, 2014 at 1:39PM
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Babka NorCal 9b

You can tell if you have spider mites by holding a white piece of paper under the leaf and flicking the leaf with your finger to knock the mites off the leaf and on to the paper. We get both the black and red ones here. They look like very fine pepper.

Once you determine IF they are spider mites... begin spraying.

They are the bane of the Western garden. Spider mites killed a 20 yr. old Jap. black pine tree because we didn't control the damage soon enough. They suck the life out of the plant. Spinosad works on hostas, as I get them sometimes late in the season. You need to spray both sides of the leaves and the nooks and crannies several times. Last fall they took over while we were off on vacation and I lost a bunch of hostas. Spinosad (Captain Jacks Bug Brew, certified organic) works on anything that chews the leaves.

Whatever it is, I would remove those affected leaves, then carefully watch the newer leaves to see if this was just a one time thing. Hope so.

-Babka

    Bookmark   May 9, 2014 at 3:36PM
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lavendargrrl(7b Apex, NC)

Thanks, Babka. I will do the test you recommended. Would you also see a fine web on the leaves with spider mites?

    Bookmark   May 9, 2014 at 3:52PM
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Babka NorCal 9b

Yes to the webs. Remove those leaves for sure.

-Babka

    Bookmark   May 9, 2014 at 5:01PM
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Moccasin(z9aMobileAL)

Gee, don't have spider mites that I know of, but there is always tomorrow. I appreciate the pictures and the text. And Babka, you recommended Capt Jack's Bug Brew before, That is going back on my order list.

    Bookmark   May 9, 2014 at 8:08PM
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lavendargrrl(7b Apex, NC)

I'm pretty sure the plants affected were just seedlings and nothing I bought so I just dug them up and tossed them. I dipped my shovel in bleach water afterwards. I will be on the lookout for more of this in my gardens. Thanks all for the advice and help!

    Bookmark   May 9, 2014 at 8:16PM
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