Just a few pics

quinnfyre(z7 PA)August 29, 2011

I took advantage of placing a bunch of my hoyas on my sewing table to take a few pics of subcalva and one of benguetensis. Subcalva is usually awkward to move around due to the way that it is growing. It is weighted heavily to one side, and the leaves are cascading downward, so in order to take it off the shelf, I have to dodge the sides of the tray it sits in while trying not to bash any leaves toward the top. It also has trouble sitting upright due to most of the growth being on one side. So, it was quite a surprise to me how much it's grown over the summer.

And the pic of benguetensis. This is mainly to show the trellis that I made. Benguetensis hasn't done a thing since I don't even know when. But it hasn't gone downhill or anything either. It's just status quo for this guy, I guess. Pardon the clutter, the sewing table wasn't really planning on housing hoyas.

I'm not sure why the photos all look a bit washed out. I edited them a bit with Photoshop, but then they uploaded this way, kind of flat and pale. Still, it's better than the unedited version. I'll have to see what the story is, later.

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mairzy_dotes(zone 10)

Neat trellis. It is like Christina's in Sweden. How did you make that...with wire hangers? I love your subcalva too. Great growin. Don't know why your other one is stuck, but various ones of mine do that too. Then one day...they just start to grow if their happy.

    Bookmark   August 30, 2011 at 12:22AM
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Your plant is big and healthy, you did a good job there, no wonder your hoyas take all the light from the window.
Did it have flower yet?

    Bookmark   August 30, 2011 at 12:48AM
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quinnfyre(z7 PA)

I used her pics as reference to make this. There is this green coated wire that I found in the hooks, drywall anchors, and picture hanging accessories section at Lowe's. It comes in a big roll. The green used to be much more vibrant, it's now sunbleached. Tip: don't use wire cutters, just bend the wire back and forth until it breaks. Then clip the plastic coating. The wire is pretty thick, so it may take some force to cut it. The bending back and forth trick is much easier.

I made benguetensis mad earlier this year when I was feeling overwhelmed and let it dry out too much too often. It hasn't forgiven me yet. But like I said, it isn't going downhill. Just sitting around pretending to be a fake plant. If it still doesn't do anything by next year, that's when I'll get irritated. For now, it's ok.

    Bookmark   August 30, 2011 at 12:54AM
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quinnfyre(z7 PA)

Sue, we posted at the same time. Yes, this is one of the ones that blocks all the sun from getting in my room, ha. It's bloomed a couple times, but the peduncles from those bloomings seem to have dried up since. The leaves it has grown this summer are huge, almost the size of my hand. I'm hoping to see more blooms soon. Also, I hope they smell like grape this time :) This one loves water, it wants to stay moist all the time. It stalls out if it gets dry.

    Bookmark   August 30, 2011 at 1:00AM
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Nice plants Quinn. I am glad you got the opportunity to take some photos while you had the plants out of the window.


    Bookmark   August 30, 2011 at 1:34AM
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eileen44_gardener(4 Central Vermont)

Nice pictures... esp love the subcalva! (as a newbie.. I'll have to check that one out online!)... seems to like having its picture taken! and the trellis.. great job!

    Bookmark   August 30, 2011 at 7:34AM
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puglvr1(9b central FL)

Very nice hoyas Quinn! Your subcalva is HUGE!! I also love the leaves on benguetensis, just beautiful! I'm sure it will start growing soon! I too have a few "plastic" hoyas,lol...

    Bookmark   August 30, 2011 at 8:02AM
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postpunkgirl(7b Texas)

Beautiful Hoyas Quinn! Love the trellis!

    Bookmark   August 30, 2011 at 10:32AM
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Thanks Quinn for sharing your photos.Your subcalva is gorgeous.Mine wont grow maybe I should give it a bit more water.

    Bookmark   August 30, 2011 at 11:29AM
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You did a nice sleek job with that trellis. I'm impressed/inspired. I'll have to look around for some coated wire, I bet it would be a lot less expensive than buying the individual lengths. And you know how I have all this room in my apartment to put a roll of heavy duty wire...


Your plants look great as usual; I'm glad we got a peek at them. My subcalva is also stuck in a position that would involve a lot of annoyance to extricate and it's not even as big as yours.

    Bookmark   August 30, 2011 at 11:30AM
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quinnfyre(z7 PA)

Thanks everyone! I just thought I'd mention: I cheated and that is actually two subcalva plants in one pot. The side with a lot more growth is the original one I got, and the other one is one I got around 6-8 months later. I got the second one as a backup because the first one looked to be doing poorly and I wanted at least one around. I consolidated earlier this year after it was clear they were both doing well enough because I really don't have room for two separate plants of the same type.

They wintered this past one pretty well. The previous winter, I only had the first subcalva, and it did not enjoy it. It died back to half its size then refused to grow. This is when I got the second one. I think when it is a young cutting, it's a little sensitive to cold temperatures. Subcalva seems to love being warm, bright, and kept moist. It did not grow nearly as well when it was further back from the window. Also, it seems to be one that really takes off when it becomes more established, but is kind of touchy when it is young. I had the same experience with variegated macrophylla. THAT one has grown well too but is really tricky to extricate now.

GG, it is not a huge roll, it's just not a tiny one. It takes up roughly the size of a throw pillow (16x16, not the giganto ones). You can probably use some, then tuck the rest under a shelving unit for later use.

    Bookmark   August 30, 2011 at 2:39PM
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The plant is NOT subcalva.
It hasn't been properly identified yet, and unfortunately TG just named it with no data on it.

    Bookmark   August 30, 2011 at 3:04PM
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It is a bit unclear to me. Is there a true subcalva (distinct from BSI-1) or was it determined to be syn. megalaster?

Here is a link that might be useful: CB on BSI-1

    Bookmark   August 30, 2011 at 3:20PM
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quinnfyre(z7 PA)

What specifically leads you to state that it is not subcalva? And if it is not subcalva, what is it? I've been growing it as subcalva because I bought it as subcalva, and it arrived labeled as subcalva. I enjoy it whatever you call it (it could be named Bob, and I'd still love it) but I'd like to know what makes you say without hesitation that is isn't what it said it was, and what subcalva is really supposed to look like if that is the case. Just for the record, I did not get this from Ted, so if it is misnamed, I can't say whether or not he had anything to do with it in this specific case. You stated before something about subcalva not being the true subcalva but I can't find that post at the moment.

    Bookmark   August 30, 2011 at 3:45PM
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quinnfyre(z7 PA)

Remembered which post it was under now. Here is what you stated, RFG:

"Hoya subcalva we have in circulation is closer to naumanii than it is to subcava. I will try to find the original description for this species and post it here. Subcalva has not been seen or collected to my knowledge. The grape scented hoya you have been growing as H subcalva has not been formally described or properly named yet."

In addition to the questions in my post above, can I ask: what is the point of naming something that has not been seen or collected thus far?

I also looked up naumannii and it does look very similar. For reference, here's a pic from when my plant I know as subcalva bloomed:

    Bookmark   August 30, 2011 at 4:02PM
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David Liddle also has a species listed as Hoys subcalva IML 0229 which I assume he collected although it may have come from some other growers collection.
I would also like to see the description for Hoya subcalva to see just what differentiates it from the plants we currently grow with this name.


    Bookmark   August 30, 2011 at 4:53PM
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    Bookmark   September 1, 2011 at 1:51AM
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Well you all know I am a curious guy so I just could not help myself. LOL
This is the official description of Hoya subcalva which was published in the Bulletin of Miscellaneous Information page 141 (1901). This is a publication associated with KEW Gardens and the 1901 copy has been digitally scanned.

Here is the original Latin publication.

1 lin. longae. Corollw tubus basi dilatatus, extus pilis glandulosis
ornatus, j lin. longus; lobi ovati, acuti. Antherca apice conspicue
mucronata, basi tenuissime caudatae. Ovarium extus minute
verrucosum. Pappus nullus.
AUSTRALIA. North-west Queensland, Lester.

337. Hoya subcalva, Burlcill [Asclepiadaceae]; ex affinitate
H. purpurew, Blume, et H. Guppyi, Oliv., ab una corona radiis
elongatis, ab altera petalis subcalvis, ab utraque foliis tenuioribus
Folia ovato-elliptica, brevissime acuminata, basi rotundata,
4-44 poll. longa, 2-2j poll. lata, glabra, nervis utrinque sat con-
spicuis; petiolus 6-10 lin. longus. Inflorescentiw umbellataw,
8-10-flors; pedunculus et pedicelli ad 12 poll. longi, glabri.
Sepula subtriangularia, 1 lin. longa. Corolla ad medium divisa,
10-14 lin. lata, dorsa glabra, intus pracipue ad margines
minutissime pustulata nec pilosa ; segmenta anguste triangularia,
acuta. CoronCe radii 2J-3 lin. longi, medio vix 1 lin. lati,
NEW GUINEA. Kaiser-Wilhelms Land Hollrbig, 28. SOLO-
MON ISLANDS. In a collection chiefly from New Georgia, Officers
of H.M1.S. " Penguin."
The specimen collected in New Guinea was sent to Kew under
the name of H. puyrurea, Blume

Here is the English translation which leaves a little to be desired but botanical descriptions are never easy to decipher unless you know the terminology. There are some rather obvious spelling errors.

1 Lin. long. Corollw base dilated tube, externally glandular hairs
of ornament, j Lin. long, lobes ovate, acute. Antherca apex conspicue
mucronata, the very meanest of the base caudatus. Ovary minute outwardly
RUGGED. Pappus No one.
Southward. North-west Queensland, Lester.

337. Hoya subcalva, Burlcill [Asclepiadaceae] and from the affinity
H. purpurew, Blume, and H. Guppyi, Olive., A crown of rays from one
removed, on the other subcalvis petals, leaves from both thinner
Leaves ovate-elliptical, very briefly acuminate, base rounded,
Poll 4-44. long, 2-2j Poll. wide, glabrous, nerves on both sides enough con-
spicuis; Lin petiole 6-10. long. Inflorescentiw umbellataw,
8-10-flowered; peduncle and pedicels 12 to the Poll. long, pilose.
Subtriangularia buried, 1 Lin. long. Corolla divided to the middle,
Lin 10-14. wide, glabrous through the hips, to the margins within pracipue
PURIFIED nor minutely hairy; the segments narrowly triangular,
sharp. Lin CoronCe rays 2J-3. long, the middle, scarcely 1 Lin. broad,
NEW GUINEA. Kaiser Wilhelms-Land Hollrbig, 28. CHEER-
Mon Island. Chiefly in a collection from New Georgia, Officers
of H.M1.S. "Penguin."
The specimen was sent to Kew Collected in New Guinea under
the name of H. puyrurea, Blume

Apparently there is no type specimen for this species so deciphering the description is made even that much more difficult.

Some good photos of the plant we have currently identified as Hoya subcalva.


Here is a link that might be useful: Page 141 of Bulletin of miscellaneous information

    Bookmark   September 2, 2011 at 1:40AM
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One of the problems is that material that was sent to KEW under the name Hoya pupurea Blume (1850) consisted of multiple different species. Hoya megalaster and Hoya hollrungii were both sent under this name with the latter hollrungii being an Eriostemma. Hoya purpurea is also classified as an Eriostemma.
Hoya purpurea was published in 1850, Rumphia IV p.30, t182.

This information came from Hoyas Of North Eastern New Guinea which was originally a German publication titled
Die Asclepiadaceen von Deutsch- Neu Guinea.


    Bookmark   September 2, 2011 at 11:22AM
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Beautiful and healthy plants! I love them!


    Bookmark   September 2, 2011 at 12:33PM
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Thanks, Mike! I've been looking for that myself.

    Bookmark   September 2, 2011 at 2:33PM
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That reminds me, Hoya megalaster what we have been calling today is also NOT Hoya megalaster. It is something else.

I will try to find my description and pollinia sheet. Christine burton did an accurate account of all pollinia from preserved materials of almost all the hoyas.

Subcalva may be an eriostemma.

Call it BSI-1 instead

    Bookmark   September 2, 2011 at 4:42PM
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Quinn to answer your question concerning Hoya subcalva and its collection. The original collection was done I am assuming in the year of publication 1901. At that time a type specimen complete with flowers should have been taken and dried and then mounted for keeping in the Herbarium at KEW where the specimens were sent.
1901 was the year the name Hoya subcalva was published, take this as an introduction to science as a newly described species. Now none of this means that a living specimen was ever in a botanical collection so jump ahead at least 50 years and imagine yourself in New Guinea or the Solomon Islands with a freshly collected Hoya that you need to assign a name by ideally using a botanical key or reading through the description of all known Hoya species of that area. This is where problems occur as it's much like fitting together the pieces of a puzzle that have been stored away and all but ignored for half a century.

The description on Hoya subcalva does fit quite well with what we currently see named as such although you would have to take a look at the pollinia and compare size and shape.
The description of the leaves with the glabrous surface and conspicuous veining on both surfaces is consistent with what we have as Hoya subcalva as is the leaf shape and leaf tip being described as briefly acuminate, this is the drip tip that is suddenly formed vs being part of a tapering leaf shape.
Flower measurements are only needed to be taken as rough guides and not down to the mm. Of course if the flower measurement describes a 2" flower and what you have is a 1/2" flower then it's obviously not a match. Yeah I know I mixed inches and millimeters. LOL
I still need to make some sense of the measurements although I believe it should be the Imperial System which would make the flowers in the description 10-14mm wide. My plant has not flowered although measurements given online state flowers closer to 30mm across so that is a noticeable difference in size which cannot be ignored.

At first the thought of Hoya subcalva being an Eriostemma struck me as odd because most Eriostemma section/sub-genus species do not have glabrous leaf surfaces, in fact some are so covered in hairs that they could almost be called tomentose.
There is a newly collected example of an Eriostemma from New Guinea that does have glabrous (bald) leaf surfaces and a photo is available on my favorite botanical blog which I have linked to below.


Here is a link that might be useful: Unidentified Eriostemma on HortLog

    Bookmark   September 2, 2011 at 7:45PM
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Mike you're terrific! Great explanation to this dilemma. The problem is that TG had labeled this hoya just based on the final end product description, not key its way through a binomial system for identifying hoya species.
Hoya subcalva is most likely an eriostemma as most species from the New Guinea, New Hebrides and outlying islands are.
There are many slick leafed eriostemmas (coronaria, NG Gold, Gold Star, etc.) I assume subcalva is named for being a very distinct leaf from the normal eriostemmas which do have some velvet feel to them. I also believe that the "subcalva" in cultivation did not originate from the location that the true subcalva originated from and this is the puzzling part of the reason why someone would name something subcalva when it didn't even originate from that region.

    Bookmark   September 2, 2011 at 8:18PM
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