difference between H. brevialata and H. incurvula

ima_diggerSeptember 13, 2011

I posted this on another thread but thought I would post it here too.

These are pictures that show the difference between brevialata and incurvula. It was posted on DG a few years ago by Carol Hawaii. I don't know how to make a link to the post.

http://forums.gardenweb.com/forums/load/hoya/msg0817581113960.html?40

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mdahms1979

I noticed those photos and I feel that they a not a good example of the differences between these two species. I have at least four different collections of Hoya brevialata which have come from Sulawesi and two of incurvula which came from other islands in Indonesia. The leaves of brevialata are quite variable but the left tips are most often rounded even when the leaf itself is more elongated which can happen, possibly due to too much Nitrogen?

Hoya incurvula seems to have much more consistently shaped leaves that show the pointed leaf tips.

The difference between Hoya incurvula and brevialata PS Hoyan

Herbarium sheet for Hoya incurvula

When I have time I could take some photos of my plants although they are very similar to the ones posted above. Making an ID with just the leaves of these two plants is not very reliable even though they do have differences. Looking at the flowers would be best and although I used to have a comparison photo I can't seem to find it's source now. I have never seen a comparison of the pollinia but there is a photo of Hoya brevialatas pollinia found here.

The original publication of Hoya brevialata was done in a journal from the Netherlands but I have not been able to find a digital copy.
Published in Blumea 46(3): 467 (2001)

Mike

    Bookmark   September 13, 2011 at 12:23PM
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greedygh0st

You make some excellent points about the differences among different specimens collected and even without that it's a bit bold to draw too many conclusions from comparing two individual leaves. I'm sure we've all experienced how much variety can be produced in leaves grown in varying conditions. Or as you point out, simply due to the plant's disposition to throw dissimilar leaves.

It is so frustrating that digital copies of every Hoya publication aren't readily accessible. I know what to ask Santa for now.

    Bookmark   September 13, 2011 at 3:23PM
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patrick51(5)

This is an interesting topic...the difference between H. brevialata and H. incurvula are as stark as night and day. H. brevialata may have differences in the shape and size of its leaves, but the leaves on H. incurvula are all very similar. My H. incurvula has zero roundish leaves, the leaves are longer than they are wide. My H. incurvula was a gift from Chris Burton. I think the problem with this discrepancy started with a nursery (maybe two or three of them) that sold H. brevialata as incurvula or incurvula Sulawesi (which was the name on the one I purchased from Gardino's...now almost everyone on Ebay is selling brevialata as incurvula Sulawesi. I firmly believe that they are selling the plants with the name that they purchased the mother plant as...not an attempt to mislead anyone. There's only one Ebay seller that's selling brevialata as brevialata. I contacted her and thanked her for correctly ID-ing the plant. Chris Burton has an excellent article on the differences between these two hoyas...the differences are unmistakeable!! (see the link provided by Mike). If your plant has mostly roundish leaves, with an occasional oblong leaf, you have brevialata! My H. incurvula has never produced a "roundish" leaf...they are all oblong...and look absolutely NOTHING like brevialata...even the leaf colour is very different, as are the growing requirements. Brevialata has "cupped" shaped leaves....incurvula never has cupped shaped leaves...the leaves more closely resemble a miniature H. meliflua. Hope this helps!! Fondly, Patrick

    Bookmark   September 14, 2011 at 5:00PM
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greedygh0st

Wonderful post, Patrick. Your well-articulated description along with the picture in CB's article make the distinguishing features very obvious. Thanks! This is a breakthrough for me, even though I've poured attentively through numerous threads and articles on the topic. Now I can collect these with confidence (something I've avoided till now). ^_~ Which is lucky b/c I can't get enough of those fuzzy little sphere blooms.

Love the "miniature H. meliflua" remark, which is just the sort of thought that pops out of my head when I am trying to describe one of my plants.

You mention the growth requirements being different. How so?

    Bookmark   September 14, 2011 at 5:24PM
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eileen44_gardener(4 Central Vermont)

Patrick... thank you.. I was able to understand one of these posts.... finally... b/c my first thought regarding the pic that ?? I don't remember now who posted it regarding ID of her plant (Denise???), looked like my newly purchased brevi... now I understand the difference, but have to admit to a bit of "newbie pride"... I wasn't too far off the mark... if the experts are discussing the subtle (or not) differences. Your post was perfect for me!... I definitely have a Brevi... and will hopefully upon the success of getting the stem of the nummalaroides to root, have that one as well. thanks Eileen

    Bookmark   September 14, 2011 at 9:11PM
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patrick51(5)

G.G., H. brevialata hates being wet...water lightly and allow to dry out before watering again. If watered too much or too often, it quickly dies. H. incurvula is tolerant of more moisture and more frequent watering. H. incurvula is very difficult to find. I was truly blessed with the gift from Chris. I could not locate this plant anywhere...other than as H. brevialata!

Eileen...I'm so glad I was able to help you. Best wishes on rooting your H. nummularoides...not a difficult one to root. Fondly, Patrick

    Bookmark   September 14, 2011 at 9:51PM
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greedygh0st

I totally agree that's an awesome gift! I'm glad we have at least a couple of these plants amongst us so that the rest of us can get ourselves turned around straight. ^_^

I'll have to keep my eyes open for this elusive prey.

Mike, where is yours from?

    Bookmark   September 15, 2011 at 12:04PM
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mdahms1979

GG both of my plants have come from Paul Shirley but they were not identified by him.

The first plant is Hoya sp Sulawesi GPS 8810. This plant has very consistent leaves as per Hoya incurvula. I am still waiting for flowers on my plant but there are photos on Paul Shirley's site.

The second plant is Hoya sp Sumatra GPS 1775 and it shows both classic Hoya incurvula leaves as well as some that are larger and more rounded but not to the degree that Hoya brevialata shows. This may also be the plant that Dale Kloppenburg named Hoya andalensis but if it is it has much smaller flowers.

Several of the Thai growers have these plants available but not necessarily under the proper name. I am keeping the names that my plants came with but I do expect that one or both are Hoya incurvula. Also when you see Hoya andalensis for sale and you are lucky enough to see the leaves it often turns out to be Hoya brevialata as well.

Here are some photos of the leaves of these two plants. If you run your cursor over the photos the names will appear.

Mike

Here is a link that might be useful: Hoya incurvula and andalensis

    Bookmark   September 15, 2011 at 1:22PM
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