Should schools supply iPads?

tobr24u(z6 RI)February 15, 2013

The wealthiest school system in RI is considering providing them to the few poor kids who don't already have them. It seems that probably 90% already do and thus have a big learning advantage.

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youngquinn_gw

only if you want all children to have the same level playing field.

    Bookmark   February 15, 2013 at 6:24AM
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tobr24u(z6 RI)

Quite right, as what is to make them do anything else but play games...

    Bookmark   February 15, 2013 at 6:42AM
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jmc01

if you only knew how much educational software is available on ipads.....

Check out apps on yours to see!!!

    Bookmark   February 15, 2013 at 7:06AM
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ronalawn82(z9FL)

tobr24u, maybe!
(The) parent(s) have a clear responsibility for their child(ren)'s education.
It is therefore their duty to provide the materials.
A responsibility is discharged only when a duty is performed.
It is human nature to place a higher value on things for which they have to pay money.
It will be a win/win/win situation when the parent has to purchase the item (on a payment plan?); (s)he will ensure that the item is put to good use thereby imbuing the student with a sense of accountability; the school system has one less thing to worry about.

    Bookmark   February 15, 2013 at 7:10AM
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momj47(7A)

Sure, why not. If it's going to advance their educational goals, sounds like a good idea.

My grandkids are much more proficient on our computers, iPads, eReaders and iPods than most of the people I work with (who can barely understand how to enter data or print an email), It can only be to their advantage in their future.

    Bookmark   February 15, 2013 at 7:22AM
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tobr24u(z6 RI)

But who will pay for the wireless connection in the home?

    Bookmark   February 15, 2013 at 7:31AM
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PRO
Brushworks Spectacular Finishes(5)

Yes.

An ad agency near Columbus just donated 200 iPads to elementary schools in the area.

Those iPadder's are tomorrow's HT crowd. :)

    Bookmark   February 15, 2013 at 7:39AM
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Brushworks Spectacular Finishes(5)

You don't need an internet connection to use and learn from installed iPad apps.

    Bookmark   February 15, 2013 at 7:42AM
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tobr24u(z6 RI)

So you are willing to pay for their wireless connection?

    Bookmark   February 15, 2013 at 7:43AM
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Brushworks Spectacular Finishes(5)

They don't need a connection. Get a hearing exam. :)

    Bookmark   February 15, 2013 at 7:49AM
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tobr24u(z6 RI)

So they would be limited to formal instruction? Good luck with that...

    Bookmark   February 15, 2013 at 7:50AM
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marquest(z5 PA)

Should schools supply text books?

Should schools supply iPads?

YES

    Bookmark   February 15, 2013 at 8:08AM
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Brushworks Spectacular Finishes(5)

Richard,

Providing iPads for the children who can't afford them makes the classroom equal and fair.

I say, provide school owned iPads to all students, then nobody can chatter about who is too poor to afford one.

    Bookmark   February 15, 2013 at 8:13AM
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tobr24u(z6 RI)

You can't close the gap unless you take the poor kids out of their environment as going all the way back to Head Start has shown...

    Bookmark   February 15, 2013 at 8:16AM
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chase_gw

Doesn't need to be an Ipad lots of choice out there that are just as functional for lots less money.

Times are changing, kids who do not have access to technology are seriously disadvantaged. Too bad we don't put as much money into education as we do into running elections........

    Bookmark   February 15, 2013 at 8:17AM
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Brushworks Spectacular Finishes(5)

Too bad we don't put as much money into education as we do into running elections........

Or football.

    Bookmark   February 15, 2013 at 8:33AM
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chase_gw

Well said brush.....

    Bookmark   February 15, 2013 at 8:43AM
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chase_gw

Well said brush.....

    Bookmark   February 15, 2013 at 8:52AM
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tobr24u(z6 RI)

Football or basketball may be the only hope for poor kids...

    Bookmark   February 15, 2013 at 8:53AM
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chase_gw

It shouldn't be!

    Bookmark   February 15, 2013 at 8:57AM
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marquest(z5 PA)

Brush I agree.

tobr there are so few kids that make it to the pros to take them out of poverty so sports are not helpful.

Given the right educational tools we will have more Bill Gates than Star Sports players. If they do not make it to the Gates status they at least will make it to the middle class employable tax payer citizen.

Investment in our young is going to be the best defense we have of not paying higher taxes to support jails, taking away Social Security, Medicare. We need wage earner population to contribute to run the country.

    Bookmark   February 15, 2013 at 9:30AM
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tobr24u(z6 RI)

Education is pretty much a middle class value. I'm afraid that the iPad is not the magic wand that many hope it to be...

    Bookmark   February 15, 2013 at 10:05AM
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david52_gw

Within a few short years, the gap in school quality is going to be determined by which districts can afford iPads and similar devices, and from 4th grade on, individual student computers and high speed internet.

And those schools who can't.

    Bookmark   February 15, 2013 at 10:22AM
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labrea_gw

Lessons can be downloaded on snow days. Using a VPN type mode the school could control access.

    Bookmark   February 15, 2013 at 10:28AM
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chase_gw

I agree David. I know some believe that its just a matter of making the right choices but for some children it will be about the choices that local governments make in terms of funding education......not the choices they make or even their parents make.

    Bookmark   February 15, 2013 at 10:30AM
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rob333

I wonder...
Would it cost less to use iPads instead of textbooks? Hm.

And there is much more one could do. In band, there is an online metronome and tuners. If you wanted to hear how a Latin or French word was pronounced, you just look it up! It's what I do at work (and freetranslation.com too). I could think of endless possibilities. Right now, if son forgets his text book, he can access it online. Seems like one step away from an iPad! And, he has to check out books form the library. There are limited copies. That would end the problem of being last in line and having to find it from another source. This is sounding better all the time!

    Bookmark   February 15, 2013 at 10:34AM
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marquest(z5 PA)

So you are willing to pay for their wireless connection?

My city has free WiFi hot spots. Some areas only allow 4 hours a day other areas no time frame.

    Bookmark   February 15, 2013 at 10:45AM
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chase_gw

Many, many of the apps that run on tablets don't require internet connections . Personally I believe the internet is like basic telephone service and should be part of the basic infrastructure available to all at reasonable prices.

    Bookmark   February 15, 2013 at 10:54AM
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labrea_gw

If they are to only be used in classroom settings for schoolwork the school can set up it's own Educational network & curriculum. Schools could use whatever texts they wished & would no longer be subject to Texas texts books or heavy back packs.
The problem then of royalties becomes a problem as Virtual Texts can be rented but never become as cheap as used text books.

Here is a link that might be useful: weighed down

    Bookmark   February 15, 2013 at 11:05AM
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jodik_gw

If the school can afford to outfit every student with an Ipad, then yes... why not? It certainly would add to their educational experience.

    Bookmark   February 15, 2013 at 11:11AM
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marquest(z5 PA)

tablets don't require internet connections

They will need the connection to download the apps. The Apps could be pre-installed but the connection would be good for research.

    Bookmark   February 15, 2013 at 11:14AM
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chase_gw

They can do all that at school or in libraries and use the down loaded apps at home.......or they can steal their neighbors wifi network !!!! LOL

    Bookmark   February 15, 2013 at 11:22AM
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Brushworks Spectacular Finishes(5)

Within a few short years, the gap in school quality is going to be determined by which districts can afford iPads and similar devices, and from 4th grade on, individual student computers and high speed internet.

And those schools who can't.

Therein lies the discrimination and competition between school districts. Competition is okay for sports teams, but not district funds. All schools should receive an equal share. There are millions of smart poor kids who are neglected because they don't attend school in an affluent community.

Of course it's all their fault. :(

For example. The county I left has just invested $3.4 million dollars in a high school football stadium. Just 20 miles east of them, schools were closing due to no funds.

    Bookmark   February 15, 2013 at 11:22AM
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david52_gw

The problem then of royalties becomes a problem as Virtual Texts can be rented but never become as cheap as used text books.

My DD did 3 years in middle school with a "21st Century" program, using lap tops and the internet. "virtual textbooks" may well exist, but they didn't use them for the very reason of cost - but there is so much other, free content out there that a teacher with reasonable skills can find all kinds of programs and sources.

Brushworks, Colorado continues to cut funding for K-12, and yesterday on the TV news was a segment about how charter schools were now starting to close because of the drop in funding. They used to get about $7,000 per pupil from the state, now its down to $6,500.

Of course, private high schools, with tuitions north of $25,000 a year, are doing fine.

    Bookmark   February 15, 2013 at 11:30AM
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markjames

I do a lot of computer work in low income homes and for low income customers with school age children.

Some of the issues they face is that they're constantly selling their notebooks, netbooks, tablets, iPads, iPods, iPhones when they need cash, these items are often stolen, often damaged, plus not insured or covered by extended warranties.

Rather than using these devices for education, many use them for music, movies, games, chatting etc.

Many have no internet access, or they've had their internet shut-off due to not paying their broadband/cable/phone bill. Many subscribe to internet, phone, cable, satellite, DVR bundles, so their monthly bills are quite high, especially once teaser rates have expired.

Broadband is unavailable in some regions, plus expensive in many regions, especially those only served by DSL.

Many receive internet via prepaid iPhones, or Android phones, however they're often out of minutes, or they don't have the money to renew their plan.

On a positive note, many of the kids that don't have computers, tablets, handhelds and broadband tend to be more physically active and more into outdoor activities.

    Bookmark   February 15, 2013 at 11:52AM
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pkramer60

If the school supplies the devise, who owns it? Is it a loaner or a gift? If it needs repair, who funds it? If lost or stolen (or sold for cash), who is responsible for replacing it?

Chase, stealing your neighbors wifi is not realistic, most have them locked down.

    Bookmark   February 15, 2013 at 12:36PM
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marquest(z5 PA)

Mark has anyone ever told you that you could be the Grim Reaper?

    Bookmark   February 15, 2013 at 12:47PM
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markjames

Mark has anyone ever told you that you could be the Grim Reaper?

LOL. No, however I often upset many people due to my strait shooting and/or knowledge of unintended consequences from hands on experience.

    Bookmark   February 15, 2013 at 12:55PM
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markjames

Speaking of WiFi leeching, we live, work and travel in few places where there aren't numerous APs that are unsecured, or secured with WEP which many school kids know how to crack.

Many of our relative's and their kids have never paid for internet. They surf the net, watch streaming movies, download movies, games and music, plus run VOIP phones off leeched/hacked or shared connections.

Many run an Alfa Repeater with an Alfa card and/or run Connectify to broadcast the leeched signal to their other notebooks, iPads, iPods, iPhones etc.

They even have some iPhone, iPod, iPad apps to crack WEP.

Many kids share their passwords with others as well.

Some of the war drivers are into more advanced cracking and attacks.

Recently I was working in a small village with 15 unsecured APs viewable with my Alfa USB adapter - 10 of them named Linksys - all on channel 6.

The customer had been connecting to a neighbor's AP for years. They thought Time Warner made a mistake and didn't turn off their internet a couple years ago.

In the cities it's pretty common to see literally dozens of unsecured APs at many locations.

Not only is WEP 100 percent crackable, but many residents use their phone numbers as security keys.

    Bookmark   February 15, 2013 at 1:14PM
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david52_gw

The way the schools here did it with the 21st Century program was that the kids paid a non-refundable deposit/fee of $50 which would cover most wear-and-tear repairs, but if they broke it and it was obvious that it was the kids fault, the kid bought a new one. If it was abused, the computer had to stay at the school. And if you intentionally trashed one, you were out of the program.

There was a waiting list of 200 kids to get into the program which had space for 100. Due to budget cuts, they had to cut the program in half, down to 50.

There certainly is the risk of kids at home just wasting time on the things. DD15, now in high school, currently has her laptop confiscated due to way too much of that.....

    Bookmark   February 15, 2013 at 1:42PM
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markjames

I've tried to help many low income customers and relatives by giving them decent newer used notebooks, or netbooks, but the majority of the time they're damaged, stolen or sold.

iPads, iPods and iPhones have an incredibly good resale/barter value in comparison to other electronics, so they're often stolen or sold. These units would last less than a week in many poor urban households.

Many are better off with an older desktop and CRT monitor.

Even many thieves won't steal these units, plus they have a very poor resale value.

They're also less likely to be damaged by dropping, crushing, liquid spills etc.

    Bookmark   February 15, 2013 at 2:12PM
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labrea_gw

Kind of hard to carry to & from school!

    Bookmark   February 15, 2013 at 2:40PM
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markjames

Kind of hard to carry to & from school!

It wasn't too long ago that students in a relative's school system could sign out desktops and LCD monitors to take home - Dell Optiplex Slim Towers and Mini Towers with 15 inch LCD Monitors.

Many students had a monitor and peripherals at home, so they only needed the tower.

Many of the computers were sold cheaply, or given to households with needy students.

Many of these units are still in service. I just worked on two in the last month alone that still had the school district tags on them. Someone took a Sharpie and wrote on the inside of the tower "This PC Sucks Donkey Balls".

They used to be pretty slow since they shipped with 128MB Ram.

    Bookmark   February 15, 2013 at 3:04PM
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RpR_(3-4)

Well about a month ago I went to a store with a younger clerk.

I gave him a half-dollar.

He said, "I have never seen one of these. What is it worth?"

I think it goes way beyond ipads.

    Bookmark   February 15, 2013 at 3:28PM
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marquest(z5 PA)

I gave him a half-dollar.
He said, "I have never seen one of these. What is it worth?"

Yet when Preschool is suggested we think the kids need more me time.

Our kids do not need anymore me time. They need education.

    Bookmark   February 15, 2013 at 5:26PM
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ronalawn82(z9FL)

tobr24u, marquest posted "Given the right educational tools we will have more Bill Gates ..."
My question is, what educational tools did Bill Gates have?
His mind.

    Bookmark   February 16, 2013 at 6:20AM
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jodik_gw

Bill Gates did not act alone.

    Bookmark   February 16, 2013 at 7:32AM
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demifloyd(8)

Many of the computers were sold cheaply, or given to households with needy students.

Many of these units are still in service. I just worked on two in the last month alone that still had the school district tags on them. Someone took a Sharpie and wrote on the inside of the tower "This PC Sucks Donkey Balls".

*

It may have been an accurate statement, but that's gratitude from the "needy" for you.

    Bookmark   February 16, 2013 at 8:05AM
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markjames

Vandalism, abuse and misuse of PCs were some of the reasons the take-home program was ended.

Besides coming back with damage, many units would come back with porn, illegal music, movies, games, software etc.

    Bookmark   February 16, 2013 at 9:08AM
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david52_gw

The laptops that they used for the 21st Century program did not have a hard drive or CD/DVD drive, just a usb plug. So no porn, games, or viruses.

So they pretty much did all their work "in da cloud" using Google docs as the main way to save and present their work.

My college going kids also save and back up their work in the cloud as well.

I should also mention that this middle school program made a special effort to enroll the under-served, poor family background, minority kids in the district. They did fine with them as well. The 2 or 3 kids who were trashing the computers and were thrown out had other issues than poverty.

    Bookmark   February 16, 2013 at 11:40AM
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marquest(z5 PA)

My question is, what educational tools did Bill Gates have?

The best education money could buy. and....

Wikipedia........
When he was in the eighth grade, the Mothers Club at the school used proceeds from Lakeside School's rummage sale to buy a Teletype Model 33 ASR terminal and a block of computer time on a General Electric (GE) computer for the school's students.[21] Gates took an interest in programming the GE system in BASIC, and was excused from math classes to pursue his interest. He wrote his first computer program on this machine: an implementation of tic-tac-toe that allowed users to play games against the computer.

    Bookmark   February 16, 2013 at 12:41PM
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marquest(z5 PA)

My question is, what educational tools did Bill Gates have?

The best education money could buy. and....

Wikipedia........
When he was in the eighth grade, the Mothers Club at the school used proceeds from Lakeside School's rummage sale to buy a Teletype Model 33 ASR terminal and a block of computer time on a General Electric (GE) computer for the school's students.[21] Gates took an interest in programming the GE system in BASIC, and was excused from math classes to pursue his interest. He wrote his first computer program on this machine: an implementation of tic-tac-toe that allowed users to play games against the computer.

    Bookmark   February 16, 2013 at 2:36PM
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rob333

It's a year later, but I am thinking of this thread. My son got a tablet and was able to access his textbooks online all year. His required reading, downloaded. His syllabi? Downloaded. It's all in one place. I really think any kid with a tablet, has an advatage. Even if it is a back that hurts less? But really, it's been a fanastic way for him to keep it all straight and on track. It is an advantage.

    Bookmark   May 5, 2014 at 3:47PM
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david52_gw

Its a huge advantage.

I posted recently on another thread that Israel is now teaching computer science in elementary school, and the UK has now made it an official policy.

While we still argue if its a good idea for K-12 students to have a lap top or tablet.

    Bookmark   May 5, 2014 at 8:57PM
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mylab123(z5NW)

I cannot comprehend that this subject is even debatable in 2014.

Thank you Brush, for your wonderful arguments that EVERY child deserves the equal ability to learn on an equal playing field. Sometimes your pov on other issues irritates me ( vice versa, certainly!) however nobody but * nobody* could argue that when it comes to children, every single one is equally important and as valuable, in your eyes. Always has, for as long as I have been in hot topics and I know, always will.

America should celebrate you and those like you who our children's greatest champion. On that point, I certainly do.

    Bookmark   May 5, 2014 at 11:30PM
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jodik_gw

Tablets aren't even that expensive anymore... it would be a shame if a school couldn't provide them for those who can't obtain one on their own.

Today, a tablet could take the place of several textbooks... which also cost the school money.

Every child IS important, and every child should have the same opportunities.

    Bookmark   May 6, 2014 at 5:15AM
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tobr24u(z6 RI)

Tablets should remain in the school and be used under supervision so that they won't be lost, broken, sold or used for playing games or watching pornography, as happened in one school community...

    Bookmark   May 6, 2014 at 6:23AM
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