Meat lovers rejoice!

tobr24u(z6 RI)February 6, 2013

An article in Scientific American for January says that there is no harm in eating red meat and that our brains need the protein found in it, just avoid processed meat that is full of nitrates. Make mine medium-rare...

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You mean you eat meat? A cheap roast that I paid 2.00 a lb for three years ago now costs 5.00 a lb. I'm trying to convince my family to become vegetarians. Now, they want to tell us it's good for us.

    Bookmark   February 6, 2013 at 5:36AM
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tobr24u(z6 RI)

Remember when eggs were considered killers? Make mine over light...

    Bookmark   February 6, 2013 at 5:48AM
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Moderation... the key to life is moderation. One wouldn't want to make fatty, processed meats a staple food... but there's good protein in fresh, naturally raised and handled meats without anything pumped into them. I like to know the source.

I could never be a vegetarian.

    Bookmark   February 6, 2013 at 7:33AM
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Even though we grow about 95% of all the fruits and veggies that we eat....they still look a little lonely on the plate.
When we buy meats we do avoid the nitrates and nitrites in the processed brands such as bacon, and never eat processed deli if it can be avoided. Those preservatives go a long way at extending the meat's shelf life but not at preserving ours.

    Bookmark   February 6, 2013 at 10:07AM
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Oh, darn. Ive been enjoying those preservative filled things expecting them to extend my shelf life. If I hadn't eaten them, I'd live longer? or would I have cashed in by now?

    Bookmark   February 6, 2013 at 10:56AM
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The rise in the price of domestic meat is directly connected to the droughts ... some of the smaller farmers here in Ohio sold off their herds with the price of feed going so high.

Our farmer decided to hold on to his as it takes years to build up a dairy herd, he is hoping to make it through the spring.

With climate change food prices, not just meat, will continue to go up, and there is little any of us can do about it since the real problem has been tabled for years in the "pursuit of profit".

    Bookmark   February 6, 2013 at 11:06AM
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Climate change is already affecting the food cycle... right you are, Ohiomom. Farmers are rethinking herd numbers based upon feed prices and harvests. This past winter's feed prices and availability are only the beginning.

    Bookmark   February 6, 2013 at 11:12AM
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marquest(z5 PA)

I could never be a vegetarian. I agree with Jodik moderation, good balanced nutrition should be the goal.

I will have my steak. My family have a farm in Ga so I know my beef is good. I am going to plant my veggies this year. I have not done it for a few years because I was taking care of my Mom and did not have the time. My veggie garden is going to be my Memorial garden to her she loved to garden.

    Bookmark   February 6, 2013 at 11:28AM
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We eat a variety of meats, some of it wild game, some poultry, fish, tempered with plenty of vegetables, fruits, some nuts, whole grains and other items. Like Marquest, I enjoy a good steak now and then... but I want to know the source because a filet can be made of cheap cuts using "meat glue" and other chemicals. Gross.

If the climate continues to change, as it has been, in the areas of the world where the majority of our foods are produced, we're in for some major changes in that food source.

    Bookmark   February 6, 2013 at 12:05PM
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This article goes somewhere that no other one does in recent years. One of the number one causes of colon cancer is eating red meat. You can get your protein from many other sources.

But to each his own. I have not had red meat in thirty plus years. The smell of it make me nauseous. When I stopped eating it, I did it because I'm an animal rights activist. The health benefits news came later.

I am a senior, speed walk five miles a day, haven't had a cold in years and I take no prescription meds, just seven vitamins a day. Ironically my kids who were raised eating meat as I was became vegetarian after they left my house.

    Bookmark   February 6, 2013 at 12:08PM
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terrene(5b MA)

I haven't eaten red meat in over 30 years too. Except for a couple of occasions when I've eaten a small amount of venison, out of curiosity, and actually think it's healthy to eat wild meat.

My reasons for becoming vegetarian years ago were primarily due to the environmental damage and waste in resources required to produce meat. This was after reading Adelle Davis' "Diet for a Small Planet" at age 15. However, they also extend to the extreme animal cruelty involved with factory farming.

Guess I better worry about my brain "because it needs the protein". (???)

    Bookmark   February 6, 2013 at 12:21PM
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Been a vegetarian now I'm a like a tarian if I like it I eat it rarely does it include meat I had some brisket last week from my local supermarkets salad bar it was delicious (I had'nt had beef for years). It does include a good amount of fish there are so many great fresh fish & produce places in Chinatown.
One year at the beach my mother bought a huge amount of shell steaks on sale we had steak 5 nights of the week for a month my arteries didn't need that at that age but beef was cheaper then.

    Bookmark   February 6, 2013 at 12:21PM
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marquest(z5 PA)

Lily some people do not do enough research when they decide to be a vegetarian. It seems you are doing it right. I know several people including my nephew that is going to have a very short life. He is sick more than he is well.

He is taking so many vitamins and I know he is not getting the nutrients he needs. He was never sick until the last 4 years he has been trying to be a vegetarian. I have told him if he is not going to eat meat he needs to supplement with foods and not vitamins only to replace the needed protein and other nutritional needs for his body.

Just not eating mean is not a miracle life style. He is not getting that part.

    Bookmark   February 6, 2013 at 12:37PM
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For the bacon lovers out there, you can now buy bacon that does not contain nitrates.

    Bookmark   February 6, 2013 at 12:44PM
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Now for bacon I prefer the fake Morningstar Farm Vegetarian
Bacon just a little margarine in the pan & yum.

    Bookmark   February 6, 2013 at 12:55PM
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Morningstar for us too! Although the kids do demand real bacon on occasion. Got to get me some of that non-nitrate bacon; I hadn't heard of that...

    Bookmark   February 6, 2013 at 1:11PM
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Whole Foods has the nitrate/nitrate free bacon, it's their #365 brand. They also have small hams that are N-free.

    Bookmark   February 6, 2013 at 1:56PM
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Well, this is a hot topic we can all chew on, isn't it? - gnaw it right down to the bone, in fact.

Personally, I eat meat, poultry, and seafood. As well as some meatless meals. I'm not a big fan of commercial meat substitutes, some of them are OK, but others really don't cut it, IMHO. I would rather just whip up my own black bean or chickpea patties, for example, not very hard if you start with canned.

The registered dietitian who has worked with me recently has no qualms about eating meat, and strongly recommends 4-6 servings of fatty fish such as salmon each week. She also is a strong proponent of organically raised foods and wild-caught seafood.

However, I personally don't buy organic very often because of the cost differential. Yes, I should, but I don't. As Mrskjun pointed out, all meat has gone up, dramatically, in the last few years. And it will go higher, no doubt. We not only have the drought, but we also have issues of limited resources, water pollution, animal cruelty and animal rights. And, the sleeping giant, as in so many issues, the fact that populations around the world, such as China, are becoming more affluent and purchasing more "luxury" items such as meat which prior generations just could not afford. Even in the US, meat consumption 75 years ago was far lower per capita -- my mother's Depression era generation thought of a roast chicken as a Sunday dinner treat, not a daily right.

Yes, another reason to hang my head in shame, I buy farm-rasied, Chilean Atlantic salmon rather than wild-caught Alaskan. Because of the price differential. I know, it's raised in terrible conditions in factory aquaculture facilities that are bad for the environment. I buy the iqf fillets from Costco, which are reasonably priced, one piece, 7 ounces raw, is enough for 1 to 2 meals for me, depending upon how hungry I am. My standard preparation, marinade all day in the fridge in gochujang, a Korean red pepper, soy, ginger, garlic paste, and sesame oil, plus some additional ginger and onion, then pan-sear or broil.

I do have a freezer full of my own, home-processed poultry, well, part of a freezer, about a dozen chickens, 6 turkeys, a smattering of quail, partridge, and duck. They were more or less decorative until my recent "troubles" (can I borrow that term from the Irish? It sounds better than certain alternatives). Alas, they paid the ultimate price. People still ask at times if I have the birds, I tell them yes, but in a significantly altered format. The flavor differential versus commercial is pretty big, they have a richer flavor, especially the old, tough laying hens.

Well, this thread is food for thought, and I'm sure as we all have time to sit and digest it, we'll realize there are still other fish in the sea.

Funny, I could really go for some sashimi right now, or at least a nice California roll.

    Bookmark   February 6, 2013 at 2:00PM
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terrene(5b MA)

So I tried to find this article in Scientific American to which Tobur referred, and couldn't find anything in January. But I did find these:

Daily Red Meat Raises Risk for Diabetes, Large Study Says

Besides Red Meat, What Types of Protein Are Hard on the Environment and Human Health?

Caveman Diet Secret: Less Red Meat, More Plants

This article in November is probably the one: Meat of the Matter: Are Our Modern Methods of Preserving and Cooking Meat Healthy? It says:

Without meat, humanity would probably not be where it is today. Evolutionary biologists have shown that hunting game and eating cooked meat significantly altered human anatomy and likely helped us develop bigger brains. Today meat is the largest source of protein in all affluent countries except Japan. Annual global consumption of meat might reach 376 million tons by 2030.

Yet most people in industrial nations live far more sedentary lives than early humans living millions of years ago. Whereas our ancestors worked hard to gather any food at all and most likely confronted the possibility of starvation between successful kills, many of us have easy access to calorie-rich meats whenever we want. Are we in fact eating more meat than is healthy?

It concludes:

Ultimately, evaluating someone's health based on meat consumption alone, while ignoring other dietary choices and personal habits, does not make sense. Although humans no longer depend on meat in the same way as our ancestors, red meat remains an important global source of protein, iron and vitamin B12. The best available evidence makes a convincing case against consuming too much processed red meat and overcooked meats but not necessarily against modest amounts of red meat. That is welcome news for those of us who enjoy the occasional steak"as well as for John Durant and his meat locker.

Yeah, sure convinces me that the amount of meat people are eating in developed nations is healthy. Not.

    Bookmark   February 6, 2013 at 2:11PM
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sleeplessinftwayne(z4-5 IND)

Farmers have always adjusted the size of their herds according to drought cycles. Normally that would have led to a reduction in meat prices due to a glut on the market. That has not happened this time due to the bad economy and the 40% of corn crops mandated by law to go to ethanol for fuel instead of feed.

One thing that has not been mentioned much is the practice of injecting broth or water into the meat. You are paying meat prices for that liquid and it can be as much as 15% by weight. Think about it. I wish I had a freezer and a good butcher who would sell me half a cow without adulterating it. It definitely isn't your mothers beef roast any more.

    Bookmark   February 6, 2013 at 2:18PM
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terrene(5b MA)

Take note of this:

Today meat is the largest source of protein in all affluent countries except Japan.

What country in the world has the longest average lifespan?


    Bookmark   February 6, 2013 at 2:21PM
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Posted by terrene
"Today meat is the largest source of protein in all affluent countries except Japan.

What country in the world has the longest average lifespan?

Japan."-----------True, but what country insists on whaling and has one of the biggest impacts of fish populations.


    Bookmark   February 6, 2013 at 2:48PM
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Oh man, steak for dinner. Life is truly good.

    Bookmark   February 6, 2013 at 3:03PM
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When I say I haven't eaten red meat, pork, ham, bacon,steak, lunch meat of any kind, hotdogs, sausage(never in my whole life have I eaten lamb or veal), I am not a true vegetarian because I eat 1/2 pound of salmon a week and a serving of chicken. This pains me to do so , but I do have to think about my health. Never has a day gone by that I haven't eaten an egg, even back when they were thought to be harmful.

Although eventually I may stop eating chicken and salmon, I will never be a vegan because I love cheese and eggs too much as well as yogurt and occasional icecream. .

    Bookmark   February 6, 2013 at 3:04PM
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We raise our own pork. You just cant beat the hams and bacon!! Got away from beef but might have to reinstall some fencing and put on a couple feeders.Have 10 acres of good grass just being mowed several times a year.I'll never do poultry again. I grow for market so we eat and put up a lot from the farm.

    Bookmark   February 6, 2013 at 3:08PM
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marquest(z5 PA)

Lily my nephew has gone vegan and I know he is just digging his grave. I did get him in to see my physician and he is giving him shots. Because he was losing muscle.

I do not eat a lot of beef my diet is mostly fish and chicken. But the waters are so bad I prefer the beef at least I know that is safe.

    Bookmark   February 6, 2013 at 3:31PM
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terrene(5b MA)

RPR, can't comment on whaling. But according to Wiki, they rank 7th in captures:

Peru ..... 9,388,662
India .... 3,481,136
USA .......4,888,621
Chile .....4,330,325
Japan .....4,072,895

Population-wise, they do eat relatively more fish than Americans.

Aside from nitpicking at what is healthier for people to eat, there is one really big and good reason for eating less or no red meat - it's the most resource-intensive and greenhouse gas-producing protein source on the planet.

    Bookmark   February 6, 2013 at 3:43PM
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Exactly Terrene. And another environmental reason is the chopping of rain forests to provide meadows for grazing cattle. The land used to raise cattle is astronomical, and if that same resource was used for growing vegetables, fruits, and grains, we could feed the planet.

    Bookmark   February 6, 2013 at 3:50PM
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Ah, yes, the "enhanced" meat, injected with brine. I think it gives chicken, in particular, a weird, kind of mushy texture. I avoid it when at all possible. Meijer stores here, for one, often have their "all natural" chicken at the same price as the injected stuff, so that is at least a plus.

Gut transit time is important in avoiding colon cancer. Even if you eat red meat, and cured meats, having a diet high in fiber and drinking a lot of water helps. Keeps the toxins moving along faster is my understanding.

Since it's about food, a little tip -- for those who like deli-style meats but don't want the gunk that goes into them these days -- try making your own chicken loaf to use in sandwiches. Easy, boil a whole chicken with skin (the gelatin and collagen from the skin is important in this) until well done and falling off the bones. Take the meat from the bones, discard the skin, and chop meat fairly fine, roughly 1/4 to 1/2 inch dice. In the interim, reduce the boiling water to about a cup, skim any fat, and add a packet of unflavored gelatin (Knox). Put the meat into a foil-lined loaf pan, distribute evenly, and when cool, pour the broth over the meat. Refrigerate at least 6-8 hours, unmold, and slice. Pretty tasty, actually.

Who knew HT came complete with recipes?

    Bookmark   February 6, 2013 at 3:52PM
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Do any of you who are vegetarians worry about all the pesticides in veggies and fruit. It's shocking and I wonder if it's actually worse than gnawing on a steak bone! I buy organic and I still don't trust these foods to be totally safe.

    Bookmark   February 6, 2013 at 4:16PM
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Well, not a vegetarian, but frankly, I don't worry about pesticides, just try to wash things really well. I have too many things to worry about, and honestly, I think I'm more likely to die on the Detroit freeways than of cancer down the road from pesticides.

    Bookmark   February 6, 2013 at 4:43PM
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Yes, I worry and wash everything well and try to buy organic(whatever that means). Still better than ingesting beef filled with hormones and inhumanely killed in slaughter houses.

    Bookmark   February 6, 2013 at 5:04PM
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terrene(5b MA)

I don't worry much about pesticide residues in veggies and fruits. The Environmental Working Group published a list of produce that is highest and lowest in pesticides. I tend to buy organic from the list of highest, and feel free to buy non-organic from the lowest.

Dirty Dozen Plus:

1 Apples
2 Celery
3 Sweet bell peppers
4 Peaches
5 Strawberries
6. Nectarines - imported
7 Grapes
8 Spinach
9 Lettuce
10 Cucumbers
11 Blueberries - domestic
12 Potatoes

1 Onions
2 Sweet corn
3 Pineapples
4 Avocado
5 Cabbage
6 Sweet peas
7 Asparagus
8 Mangoes
9 Eggplant
10 Kiwi
11 Cantaloupe - domestic
12 Sweet potatoes
13 Grapefruit
14 Watermelon
15 Mushrooms

Edited to fix a plethora of typos

Here is a link that might be useful: EWG's 2012 Shopper's Guide to Pesticides in Produce

This post was edited by terrene on Wed, Feb 6, 13 at 17:35

    Bookmark   February 6, 2013 at 5:33PM
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I'm not vegetarian and I worry about what's being used on and done to the fruits and vegetables and other foods we buy at various times throughout the year, during seasons when we can't grow and pick them fresh.

What sort of chemicals are being used, whether insecticide, fungicide, or herbicide? What about GMO crops? We really don't know much about the long term effects of consuming foods with altered genetics. And then there's the noticeable differences in commercially produced produce... a lot of it doesn't ripen as it should, taste as it should, have the same texture, etc... it's certainly not as good as home grown produce.

Of course, we do wash everything before eating it or cooking with it, but still... our lives are so inundated with chemicals, it's more on top of more!

There's really no need to destroy more rain forest to raise beef or other meat sources. I believe part of the problem goes only as deep as greed... big ag trying to squeeze every penny out of a product without having to invest more than absolutely necessary. There are many tried and true methods of rotating stock and growing foods with the health of the land, and the consumer, in mind. A lot of older farmers on smaller farms used methods that kept their farmland healthy and producing, but too many smaller farms have gone defunct, many unable to compete with big ag, others missing a generation that wants to carry on the task of feeding the world in exchange for a pittance. I believe it's all in how land and animals are managed.

This is part of why I always say that our food source, in general, is very compromised... and in more ways than one.

    Bookmark   February 6, 2013 at 5:50PM
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I personally feel the bigger problem with pesticides is on the macro scale, where there is widespread environmental contamination and all that flows from that. Especially in third world countries, where pesticides that were banned here back after 'Silent Spring' are still in widespread use.

    Bookmark   February 6, 2013 at 6:32PM
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cookie8(zone 5 ON)

I too wish I could be vegetarian but I can't eat grains so I buy my beef from a local farmer who treats his cows well and they are grass fed, free range, antibiotic free. We buy 1/4 to 1/2 cow at a time to keep the cost down and it does - it brings it down to supermarket prices. I gave up eating the SAD diet and am so glad I did.

    Bookmark   February 6, 2013 at 8:48PM
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