Chimera...experiment...

hendy(USDA zone)May 21, 2004

How to cause change of colors of the foliage? ..observation.. foliages tints (rouge, pink, white and green) on Crateagus(beautiful)(this plant.. 5 years and 2 branches are green near the ground... sowings will have its colors (?)do you know a means of transferring its colors on other Rosacées.. I have an extract of this produit(contamination)(?)... experiments were made. articles published, research projects?, I experienced by contamination.. Rosacées.. and others (syringa.. etc).

translating..

hendy

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jawstheshark1969(z6 NJ)

hendy,

I'm a little confused about your posting. Could you provide a little more information.

JAWS

    Bookmark   June 10, 2004 at 9:38PM
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hendy(USDA zone)

My english...?...
I found a hawthorn(Crateagus) with 4 colors.. 2 branches(foliage) are green and all the others have 4 colors(leaf)(green,white, pink and red)
it's nice..I contaminated(test) some other plants with extract to verify if it's possible to contaminate some other plants

J' ai trouvé une aubépine (Crateagus) avec 4 couleurs..les deux branches(feuillage) du bas sont vertes et les autres sont de 4 couleurs(feuille)(verte,blanche,rose et rouge.. c' est très joli...
j'ai contaminé(test) d' autres plants avec un extrait pour vérifier si cela est possible de contaminer d' autres plants...
hendy

    Bookmark   June 11, 2004 at 9:40AM
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mauch1(z6b PA)

>2 branches(foliage) are green and all the others have 4 >colors(leaf)(green,white, pink and red)
Are the two branches that are green below a graft union? Or do you think the top has somehow mutated?

>I contaminated(test) some other plants with extract to >verify if it's possible to contaminate some other plants
I think the word that is being translated as 'contaminate' is what we would call 'pollinate' and what is termed 'extract' is what we would call 'pollen'. So you're trying to see if the pollen can pass on this multicolor characteristic to other hawthorns?

    Bookmark   June 16, 2004 at 2:53PM
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zcabn(France)

Bonjour

Ce ne serait pas une variété greffée puisque les deux branches vertes sont dans le bas?

Je ne jamais entendu dire que l'on pouvait "transférer une mutation" d'une plante à une autre (provoquer une mutation génétique) par un traitement réalisé à partir de décoction de feuilles...
Quoique...la question paraît intéressante.
Concernant par exemple les arbres tortueux de la forêt de Verzy, personne jusqu'à présent n'a compris pourquoi dans cette forêt on trouvait à la fois du hêtre tortueux (fagus sylvatica var tortuosa) mais aussi des chataigniers tortueux et un chêne tortueux. Il n'est pas impossible qu'un mécanisme encore incompris permette de transférer via le sol un caractère (Ici tortueux) d'une plante à l'autre. Dans le cas des faux de Verzy, les hypothèses d'une mutation causée par un virus ou une radiation (chute de météorite) n'a jamais été prouvée.

    Bookmark   June 20, 2004 at 4:20AM
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hendy(USDA zone)

je crois que cette idée de greffe devient plausible....
mais je me pause la question comment a-t-on fait pour avoir ce plant avec autant de couleur..peut-être une chimère mais....(l'origine)
j' ai déja observé des branches sans presque de chlorophyle chez le lilas ou parmi de jeunes semis.. mais elles disparaissaient rapidement..
mon expérience est en fonction.. ce que j' ai essayé sur
des semis(spores) de fougère à complètement bruler..
je veux inoculer encore en juin plusieurs arbustes dont des pommiers et quelques plants d' aubépines..

    Bookmark   June 20, 2004 at 9:51AM
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mistercross(z6b Ozarks)

Hmm... anyone know a good translation site?
http://dictionary.reference.com/translate/text.html translates the third post as:

I found a hawthorn (Crateagus) with 4 couleurs..les two branches(feuillage) of bottoms are green and the others are 4 couleurs(feuille)(verte, white, pink and red. it is very pretty... I have contaminé(test) other seedlings with an extract to check if that is possible to contaminate other seedlings...

That's not very good.
http://ets.freetranslation.com/ translates zcabn's reply as:

Hello This would not be a grafted variety since the two green branches are in the bottom?

I never heard to say that one could "to transfer a mutation" of a plant to another (to provoke a genetic mutation) by a realized treatment from brew of leaves... Although. ..la question appears interesting. Concerning for example the trees tortueux of the forest of Verzy, person so far did not understand why in this forest one found at once beech tortueux (fagus sylvatica var tortuosa) but also chataigniers tortueux and an oak tortueux. It is not impossible that an again misunderstood mechanism allows transferring through the ground a character (Here tortueux) of a plant to the other. In the case of the false one of Verzy, the hypotheses of a mutation caused by a virus or a radiation (falls meteorite) never was proved.

Ouch.
http://world.altavista.com/ translates the next message:

I believe that this idea of Clerc's Office becomes plausible.... but I pause myself the question how one made to have this seedling with as much couleur..peut-to be a dream but... (l'origine) j' have déja observed branches without almost of chlorophyle at the lilac or among young sowings. but they disappeared quickly. my experiment is in function. what j' tested on semis(spores) of fern with completion bruler.. I want to still inoculate in June several shrubs of which apple trees and some seedlings d' hawthorns

None of the 3 are that great.

    Bookmark   July 31, 2004 at 3:40AM
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Walter_Pickett(5-6 KS)

I spent 3 years as a vegetable breeder in the Republique du Niger. I do remember enough French to read what you have written, but not enough to spell anything I might reply in French.
It is not impossible that a virus caused the varigation. That has been found sometimes. But such is not usually the case. No harm in trying to transfer the variagtion, but I much doubt it will be successful.
Walter

    Bookmark   August 2, 2004 at 8:15PM
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dadgardens

Like Walter, I remember enough French to read what you wrote about:
"Dans le cas des faux de Verzy, les hypothèses d'une mutation causée par un virus ou une radiation (chute de météorite) n'a jamais été prouvée." The ancient twisted beeches (Fagus sylvaticus sp) may be the result of a virus or some other mutation (tulip virus caused changes in tulip coloration)

mais je pense son aubépine (Crateagus) avec 4 couleurs est naturelle hybrid

http://www.ces.ncsu.edu/depts/hort/consumer/factsheets/trees-new/cultivars/acer_crataegifoli-veitchii.html

    Bookmark   August 9, 2004 at 10:25PM
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hendy(USDA zone)

Interesting but it's not this one..with green ant white more pink and red
hendy

    Bookmark   September 15, 2004 at 8:31PM
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kevins_choice(qld australia)

i placed a posting on verigated weeds once if you can find it . it took a while but i found out what caused it and it would work on valuable plants also. and they were still verigated from seed. i dont have the time at the moment to work on it.

    Bookmark   December 31, 2004 at 7:04AM
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david_zlesak(z4 MN)

If I understand correctly, the variegation has some pink in with it as well. Anthocyanins (pigments usually contributing pink, red, or purple hues to plants) can be stress induced as well. Perhaps your variegated sections are experiencing some stress and that's contributing to the beautiful pinkish coloring. Such is the case with that variegated boxelder on the market and many other variegated plants as well.

I suggest closely looking at the foliage to see if you can find patterns throughout the leaves for where the yellow or white segments of the leaves are being produced. That may shed light on if it's a periclinal chimera with one of the three layers of the meristem just being compromized in its ability to produce chlorophyll. THere's a wonderful book called Plant Chimeras by Richard Tilney-Bassett (ISBN 0-7131-2936-0) 1986 that describes chimeras well and various plants with "thick or thin" tissue layers from a meristematic layer. If your variegation is viral, there is a high chance it would have spread throughout your whole plant.

Anyway, if this variegation is a new sport found on your tree and there isn't a nice variegated Hawthorns on the market, you may have a nice new cultivar. You can propagate the variegated section by grafting it onto some rootstock and then coordinate with some nursery to test and possibly introduce it for you.

Sincerely,
David

    Bookmark   January 6, 2005 at 12:16PM
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dadgardens

Hendy,

Je suis désolé que j'aie pris tellement longtemps pour répondre. Malheureusement, ma mère a souffert une course massive et n'a pas récupéré.

Votre usine pourrait être une nouvelle mutation, si elle la greffe alors aux actions normales pourrait avoir comme conséquence une nouvelle usine.

Your mastery of English now exceeds my mastery of French.

David is correct, your Chimaera might be propagated by grafting it to another Cratageus plant.

Votre usine pourrait être une nouvelle mutation, si elle la greffe alors aux actions normales pourrait avoir comme conséquence une nouvelle usine.

    Bookmark   January 14, 2005 at 10:58PM
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