Japanese Maple

Bruces10(8a)June 17, 2005

We recently planted a Japanese Maple (not sure of type) and the leaves have turned brown and are falling off. The tree receives approximately 7 hours of sun, mostly in the morning.

Is the tree suffering from "shock" due to being recently transplanted? What could cause this reaction and what to do?

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MrNorth4(Sweden ZOne 1)

Well I think the problem is due to a lack of water. When you plant a maple that has been in a pot, the surroinding dirt sucks up the water from the dirt surroinding the roots. Therefor you need to add plenty of water for the maple to survive. I have had the same problems, but with my maples all I had to do was to wait one year and then it was ok the next year... And remember that maples shouldnt be in full sun... they have bad protection to handle it. And I ahve always had more problems with the green palmatums than with the red ones, like the garnet...

good luck!
Henrik

    Bookmark   June 17, 2005 at 12:38PM
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george_in_the_uk(UK)

Hi,
Has Henrik says it could be not enough water, or too much sun, as maples like dappled shade also it could be wind burn if it is in a windy position.
George.

Here is a link that might be useful: George's Japanese Garden

    Bookmark   June 17, 2005 at 3:00PM
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iamkatiehackett(QLD Aust)

i think the word "topping" sent this thread off in the wrong direction. yes, you can reduce the height of your maple. over time you can probably bring it down to the desired height.

    Bookmark   October 23, 2005 at 3:29AM
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iamkatiehackett(QLD Aust)

Sorry, I meant for my comments to be posted on this other thread.

Here is a link that might be useful: Topping a Japanese Maple

    Bookmark   October 23, 2005 at 3:50AM
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DonPylant(z8TX)

Zone 8 planting now? That is the problem. Maples have a really hard time making it through this time of year anyway. This year has been especially hard. If all leaves are damaged badly, remove EVERY leaf and do not let it dry out. If it is in any direct sun, give it temporary shade. New leaves should come out in about 2 weeks to give it a helping hand before fall. Use your finger in the root ball to make sure it does not dry out - now or through the winter!

    Bookmark   October 23, 2005 at 2:30PM
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keithnotrichard

I guess this thread would be a good place to further discuss the myth (or non-myth) of maples "bleeding to death."

    Bookmark   October 26, 2005 at 1:10AM
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Niwashisan(UK)

I have never had a maple 'bleed to death' though it is very disturbing to see the amount of sap that can pump from a pruning cut. What is your opinion/experience of the profuse bleeding of maples Kieth ? Is it a myth ?

Graham

    Bookmark   October 28, 2005 at 9:17AM
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DonPylant(z8TX)

Japanese maples are not the sugar maples that can provide copious amounts of sap. Why add this stress to a Japanese maple when simple timing can avoid this and insect and disease problems associated with a bleeding cut?

Still, this is not the problem Bruce10 is asking about.

    Bookmark   October 28, 2005 at 12:05PM
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keithnotrichard

I don't have much to do with Japanese maples nowadays, but I owned a few back when I lived in the midwest. Any tree will die if you prune it too much, right? But I don't recall Japanese maples bleeding any more than any other tree. So, Yes, I do suspect that those comments about them "bleeding to death" is a myth.

    Bookmark   October 29, 2005 at 1:51PM
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Niwashisan(UK)

Maples, infact all of the Aceraceae, are prone to bleeding more than most tree species/families. It is not a case of pruning too much but pruning larger limbs when the sap has started to rise. I personally do not think it is a myth but one would be foolish to prune larger limbs at the wromg time. Of course if a tree has been properly pruned throughout its development then the removal of such large limbs should not be needed.

    Bookmark   October 29, 2005 at 2:50PM
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DonPylant(z8TX)

For the most part, Niwashisan, maples that have been pruned properly throughout their development are a myth ; )

    Bookmark   October 29, 2005 at 6:06PM
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Niwashisan(UK)

Depends upon the gardeners maintaining them Don.

    Bookmark   October 30, 2005 at 3:47AM
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Floyd7(47c)

I hope you don't mind me putting my 2 cents worth into this one. I have worked with Acer ginnala and Acer tataricum for 15 years now. Yes they do bleed incredibly large amounts when cut in the spring just before bud break. A 1/4 inch dia. twig will drip every three seconds for up to two days. This always worried me. Observation however showed that this twig finally sealed and the side branch to where the cut was made survived fine. It is my belief that the "myth" of bleeding to death may have come from the process which occured after the maple had been cut. The sap runs profusely and spreads over the surface of the tree around the cut. This sap deposit then becomes a breeding ground for a host of tree disease and decay pathogens. The pathogens then find their way into the tree and eventually the limb dies back. Could this make it appear that the maple bled to death?

    Bookmark   October 30, 2005 at 8:05PM
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gardenberry(z5 IL)

I think that the myth of the running sap being a path for the pathogens to enter is one that needs to be addressed. Sap flows outward, pushing pathogens out along the way. Compartmentalization then occurs, stopping the flow of sap and keeping the pathogens out.

I admit that the sight of flowing sap can be disturbing in the spring. But as far as I know, it doesn't really damage the tree in the short term. Now, if you were to remove major limbs year after year and have the sap running out year after year, I'm sure that would kill the tree. Even maples used for syrup production get a break every once in a while to restore their energy and to keep them healthy.

Garden Berry

    Bookmark   October 31, 2005 at 8:16AM
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bahamababe(z4 VT)

Do maples used for syrup production ever bleed to death? I mean, if you put 20 taps in a sugar maple, will it die? How about 50 taps?

    Bookmark   October 31, 2005 at 10:42AM
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gardenberry(z5 IL)

I'm not a maple producer, so I can't answer that question completely accurately. However, I do know that responsible sugar bush managers take care with their trees that they do not become over stressed from too many taps in the tree. They are aware that the trees are a long-term investment and protect them as such. If you were to put too many taps into a tree, it would, over time, kill the tree, but it wouldn't happen immediately. And once the wound has sealed itself and compartmentalized, you have to drill another hole to get more sap to flow.

I suppose if one had a maple tree that they were willing to sacrifice, you could try an experiment next spring to see how many holes you have to make to kill a maple tree. I'd much rather preserve the trees that I have.

    Bookmark   October 31, 2005 at 12:40PM
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Floyd7(47c)

Yes the trees are capable of compartmentalizing wounds, however not all the walls of codit are equally strong. If wounds are inflicted repetetively and within close proximity to each other the compartmentalized areas can coalesce creating weak areas susceptible to disease and decay. One must also remember that maple tapping for syrup production is done on trees greater than 10-12 inches in diameter. Traditionally 1-2 taps for 10-12 inch tree, up to 4 taps for a tree 25 inches in diameter. As well the drill is only 7/16. So it is a very small wound on a fairly large tree, thus making it easy to compartmentalize. So I think it's a little difficult to compare the ornamental varieties with the commercial sap producers.

    Bookmark   October 31, 2005 at 6:40PM
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gardenberry(z5 IL)

I think that the amount of sap that the different maples "bleed" is relatively the same - I know my Acer ginnalas and the Acer tegmentosums bleed quite a bit, as do the Acer saccharinums. What differs with Acer saccharum is the sugar content in the sap, that is what makes them good for syrup production. It just so happens that the Acer saccharinums are much larger and therefore contain more sap, than, say, the Acer ginnalas which are cut back to the ground every few years.

    Bookmark   November 2, 2005 at 4:09PM
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keithnotrichard

Floyd7 said "no more than 4 taps in a tree that is 25 inches in diameter." OK, that sounds about right. But what if you install many more taps - enough taps to kill the tree. Will the tree die from "bleeding to death" or from something else? If it dies from "something else," what would that something else be?

    Bookmark   November 3, 2005 at 11:01AM
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gardenberry(z5 IL)

Introducing any kind of stress to a tree - whether too many taps, too many pruning cuts, injuries, whatever you can think of that is bad to do to a tree - will allow for more insect attacks or more pathogens to get established and, I believe in my humble opinion, that is what will eventually kill a tree. Outside of outright basal cutting or lightning strike or bulldozer collision, I don't think any one thing you do to a tree will kill it. It ends up being a combination, thereof. At least in my experience.

    Bookmark   November 3, 2005 at 12:19PM
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Floyd7(47c)

Yes gardenberry I do agree it is usually a combination of things that ends up killing a tree. I think as well,keithnotrichard, that if enough taps were installed to the point of killing the tree, I do believe the trees' demise would be the same as if one were to girdle the tree. In other words enough holes would be drilled in the tree to severely curtail flow to and from the crown, effectively causing the trees demise. Now would you call it bleeding to death from the base or starving to death from lack of sap flow to the crown?

    Bookmark   November 3, 2005 at 10:08PM
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