Hydroponics or Areoponics

msjacki(z7 TN)July 1, 2006

I have to admit that I know very little about hydroponics or aeroponics, but have been reading and studying the past few days. I have seen several systems that are cloners but yet to see an answer to my question.

I propagate roses, trees and shrubs using a soiless mix and a pop bottle attached for humidity. The results are satisfactory although sometimes rooting takes a long time to occur.

My question is this; can a hydro or areoponic system work for roses, trees and shrubs? I basically just want them to root and then transplant. Will the results be faster than my "old-fashioned" way?

Any advice or experience would be greatly appreciated.

Jacki

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utsharpie(33014)

aeroponics is just a type of hydroponic gardening. they arent too separate techniques.

aeropnics,NFT,drip,flood drain,DWC are all hydroponic techniques

    Bookmark   July 1, 2006 at 4:14PM
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jimr007

Hi Msjackie,
A flood and drain system will do what you need. If you use sand as a growing medium, you will have no trouble.

Cheers,
Jimr007

Here is a link that might be useful: A system that will work for you.

    Bookmark   July 2, 2006 at 1:45AM
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willardb3

I have cloned many roses in a hydro/aero hybrid with a success rate above 90% and I see roots in 10-20 days with roses, less with chiles.

    Bookmark   July 2, 2006 at 10:40AM
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msjacki(z7 TN)

Thank you all so much for the replies. I have spent the entire day reading all the info I can. I think one of the most important things I learned was that I do not have to buy one of those expensive systems I have been looking at. I think I was making the whole process more complicated than it actually is.

I'm so glad to know that you have had success with roses and other shubs. I can't wait to get started!
Jacki

    Bookmark   July 2, 2006 at 7:32PM
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poopoo

Just my two cents! Aeroponic systems have proved for me in the past to be a pain in the butt. I found myself having to clean the fine misting nozzles every other day or so. Filter all you wish, it will still happen.
I have used a drip system for the past two years with much success. I use round volcanic rock for a growing medium and a constant drip. This is a pretty high speed system so constant observation of water pH, temperature and TDS is important. Being a bit of a busybody I enjoyed tinkering around with these measurements daily.
Good Luck
Ryan

    Bookmark   July 5, 2006 at 9:40PM
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willardb3

Everybody who has trouble with aeroponic systems has trouble with the high pressure drop emitters clogging up.

Get rid of them and replace with low-pressure drop ones that don't clog up as in attached site.....

Here is a link that might be useful: Low Pressure Drop Emitter

    Bookmark   July 6, 2006 at 12:30PM
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utsharpie(33014)

willard,

how many of those low pressure drippers can you run on run pump?

I have a pump (forgot how many gpm) it has a max head height of 28 feet.

    Bookmark   July 6, 2006 at 9:41PM
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willardb3

My pump does 3 gpm at 4' of head and I run 12 emitters but I also run a pump bypass.

The pressure drop of the emitter in aero flow range is around 1-3".

    Bookmark   July 7, 2006 at 10:22AM
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utsharpie(33014)

pump bypass? what is that, ive never tried aeroponics, but ive got a bunch of NFT tubes i made out of pvc pipe that im going to put on the roof and thought i would try aeroponics with it.

    Bookmark   July 7, 2006 at 6:44PM
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gw:plant_babies

I am going to *try* aeroponics with vertical hanging PVC pipes in my GH.

The plan is to have a fish-tank in the center, and pump the water from that to the hanging pipes. The pipes will have holes in them to insert plants, and the water will spray down the inside of the pipes on a timer.

I don't even have my GH yet, so ideas are subject to change once we actually get our hands in the dirt.

:)

    Bookmark   July 8, 2006 at 2:00PM
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ironhat2(Z8/MS)

willard3,

Could you be a little more specific on your hydrophinic system and how it is setup? I am interested in a sytem for propagating roses using hydrophonics.

I have posted a link I have on the rose propagation forum asking about this subject.

Thanks for any info.

Dan

Danny

Here is a link that might be useful: http://forums.gardenweb.com/forums/load/rosespro/msg0507540814096.html?15

    Bookmark   June 1, 2007 at 8:30AM
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willardb3

Like this:

Look for "system bypass" on drawing.

    Bookmark   June 2, 2007 at 10:41AM
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ironhat2(Z8/MS)

willard3,

You are a man of few words and great drawings. Thank you for the plans/illistrations.

Like msjacki, I know little to nothing of hydrophonics/areponics principals or practices. I understand most of your the setup as you have it illistrated. Like your bypass. Great idea!

I am a little fuzzy on how the drip emmiter works or where it is mounted in relationship to the growcup.

An is this sytem one that is used only indoors to try to control the temp at the cuttings to the lower 70 degrees f. range, or is it an outside system that temp plays little or no part of?

Dan

    Bookmark   June 2, 2007 at 9:37PM
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willardb3

My system is in a temp-controlled greenhouse.

Root temp for cuttings is about the same as nutrient temp which never exceeds 70F.

Nutrient reservoir is remote from the greenhouse in the cellar which rarely exceeds 75F.

    Bookmark   June 3, 2007 at 8:15AM
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tclynx

For a little while I had set up one of those hollow fence posts as a trough with micro irrigation sprayers in it. I had it running off the same pump that was running my Modified media filled NFT troughs. The sprayers don't seem to require a huge amount of pressure and they didn't start clogging up untill after the incidcent of the system running dry. That trough was working great (tunning 24/7) for my strawberrys, and for rooting varrious cuttings. This was in Central FL this spring, outdoors, no special temp control other than the resivuar being sunk in the ground and well shaded. I definitely plan to make some modifications to this and set it up again next season.

I'm just really bummed that the system went dry while I was out of town.
Teach me to get a float valve huh.

    Bookmark   June 3, 2007 at 11:10AM
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ironhat2(Z8/MS)

willard3,

Thanks for clearing the temp question up! I thought I was right in my assumptions, but .......... wanted t be sure.

Let me take a stab at describing what I see your system being.

You have 2 pumps.

One air pump for the airstone w/related hoses and fittings. I assume this is to enrich the oxygen content of your nutrient solution.

The second pump is for moving the nutrients to each individual grow cup. You control head pressure with your bypass valve. You also can refine the flow of nutients that are delivered to each drip emitter by adjusting the individual saddle valve for each grow cup.

All surplus nutrient solution flows back to the resevior where it is recycled back into the flow to the plants.

And your doing this in a climate control setting of 70 degrees F., which is suppose to be ideal for rooting purposes.

Rather than assume anything, does the nutrient solution pump run 24/7, or is it on a timer?

Dan

    Bookmark   June 3, 2007 at 8:09PM
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willardb3

Nutrient pump runs 16 hrs/day, the same as the HID lights. Air pump runs 24/7.

Air temp in the g'house varies from 85-95F. Nutrient temp is never over 70F.

    Bookmark   June 5, 2007 at 9:00AM
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ironhat2(Z8/MS)

willard3

Base on your last email, I am going to come up with some way to control my nutrient solution temp for any system I build. But meeting the basic design concept you are using is something I think I can do.

Thanks for taking all the time to share this info. I hope others found it as useful as I have.

Dan

    Bookmark   June 5, 2007 at 10:21AM
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tired_puppy

ironhat2...check this item out.
http://www.marinedepot.com/ps/ps_ViewItem~idProduct~CW1111.html
I don't know if you are growing indoors or outdoors. I would tend to think this would be an item to use indoors, especially if a more powerful pump is required. I have yet questioned the manufacturers of larger chillers concerning corrosive chemicals (PH adjusters). I do know that they are made to work for years with saltwater aquariums. I ran a 1/10hp chiller for 50gal. and handled it very well during summer months. Of course, we are talking about $350 plus shipping. Since saltwater is corrosive, I don't see any difference in using it for hydroponic applications. But don't take my word for it. Ask the manufacturer. Hope this helps.

    Bookmark   June 20, 2007 at 7:02PM
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ironhat2(Z8/MS)

Thanks for the site TP. I am interested in learning more about what this site has to offer on this subject!

Dan

    Bookmark   June 22, 2007 at 5:45PM
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OttoGardener

Hello, I'm digging up this thread because I can't seem to track down the emitters recommended by willard3 as the URL is no longer valid. I did a search on the future garden site but there are quite a few different options:

http://futuregarden.com/catalogsearch/result/?q=low+pressure+emitter

Could someone tell me which ones I should get? Thanks!

Here is a link that might be useful: Low pressure emitter search

    Bookmark   March 18, 2014 at 5:46PM
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PupillaCharites(FL 9a)

That link he gave seems messed up, because it actually has the part number in it, even though the link is broken. The part number isn't for a spray emitter, but just a hose barb adaptor, which is available here:

0.16" (low pressure drop?) hose barb to 10/32" model 70-1046

Hmmm. That looks like it may have been the base of an emitter spray head that screwed on. It is pretty large diameter, so it wouldn't clog easily. But there is no spray head cap. Somewhere the is a missing 360 degree micro spray cap that has 18 pinpoint micro-streams, that looks like an elf took a micro dremel to a car tire valve cap and drilled 18 fine holes around the upper rim.

email or call 516-809-9590 them and ask them if they have their part number 70-1027 available anymore, the micro spray caps described above and also check if they already come with the bases or if the 70-1046 can be used as a base (the part number in the link willard3 had), and even if they say the 70-1027 is available as a combination including cap and base, verify if the 70-1046 part can be substituted as base for something that will clog less or have a lower pressure drop.

Good luck and please let us know. That actually looks like a very nice emitter that a fountain pum can drive.

EDIT, I'm guessing he used this $0.13 same cap size:

ANTELCO A10845 drip irrigation 360ð X 18 hole micro spray fan cap on that base. Perhaps the Antelco white base, is close to the appropriate size for not clogging and gph, but the whole table from Antelco gives you the range of psi with the different bases and willard3 mentioned 4psi was his pressure, in case you want to try to get something similar. I'm just wondering if he was actually just screwing the cap on a 0.16" ID (it is hard to guess without a picture of the part and its specs) connector to prevent clogging, which is even bigger than the 0.09" white base, which could explain how he did away with clogging. Anyway, trying something like that sounds good to me ;-)

This post was edited by PupillaCharites on Wed, Mar 19, 14 at 2:12

    Bookmark   March 19, 2014 at 1:16AM
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hex2006

12 emitters, 3gpm at 4ft head pump, so its a sprinklerponic 1.736 psi ;)

    Bookmark   March 28, 2014 at 8:37AM
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