Assault Weapons Ban of 2013

heri_clesFebruary 28, 2013

I link to Senator Di-Fein's proposed Bill

I was gripped by the testimony of an emergency room
physician who tried to save some of the 26 bodies
mutilated by Lanza's assualt weapon.

Later in an interview he stated that certain
ammunition that is designed to explode inside
a victims body should also be banned except for use
by the military. He stated that while there is a chance to survive a conventional bullet from a hand gun, the wounds he saw from from assault weapons were so explosive that they shattered an enormous area of bone and tissue and one
could not survive from such wounds.

I will try to find his comments and post them.

Here is a link that might be useful: Stopping the spread of deadly assault weapons

This post was edited by heri_cles on Thu, Feb 28, 13 at 16:07

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Brushworks Spectacular Finishes(5)

How many made it to the emergency room? I thought all but 2 children died at the scene.

    Bookmark   February 28, 2013 at 4:37PM
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fancifowl(5Pa)

This is so much a crock of baloney!! More lies put out to capture the ayyention of those ignorant of firearms.

I have done reloading for many years, Ive never come across any bullets that explode inside the body!! Where DO they come up with this crap?? ball ammunition is required by countries who adhere to the Geneva Convention policy. Ball ammo is designed to penetrate and go on thru causing the least amount of trauma.. Thats just a fact you can look up.

And one more time, assault weapons are ALREADY banned, have been for years. Modern sporting rifles are NOT used by any military, none. No army could survive today with sporting rifles.They are the same gun as used by hunters and shooters nall over the wortld for nearly 100 years but with a different physical appearance.

The same types of bullets are used in handguns and rifles and carbines, no matter what the length of the barrel or what caliber or what type be it pump, semi auto, bolt, revolver or pistol.,. This is just so feakin stupid it is a dead lie.

But then, what anti gun idiot is interested in the facts anyhow?? The anti crowd can only try to belittle someone who presents facts, they have no desire to know the truth.

    Bookmark   February 28, 2013 at 4:38PM
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fancifowl(5Pa)

b Sorry but this BS just bothers me.
What the hell does a pistol grip, or a forward grip, or an adjustable stock, a barrel shroud or a threaded barrel have to do with anything?? I mean good god, a pistol grip is how ya hold the damned weapon for cryin out loud, a forward grip may or may not assist control, a telescoping stock enables different sized bodies to adjust to the weapon or assiststs in fitting to wear, like winter clothing while persuing coyotes. A bbl shroud helps to cool the bbl if shooting multiple times at say, prairie dogs or targets. A threaded bbl, jeez, I just want to scr4ew on a compensator to assist in holding down muzzle flip while target shooting. This is so assinine, stupid, and unwarranted. No wonder gun nuts dont trust any politician, especially the gun grabbin demos. And you want gun people to cooperate?? get real.

    Bookmark   February 28, 2013 at 5:55PM
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Pidge

fancifowl, you are such an angry man about guns that there is no talking to you. It may be that you have never seen a human being blown to bits by an assault rifle. Okay. But why do you trash those who have and who have been traumatized by it? Tiresome tripe about how amazing you are about the science of guns without understanding the consequences.

    Bookmark   February 28, 2013 at 7:06PM
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fancifowl(5Pa)

Lookie here lady, I am a disabled Nam vet, I survived TET of 1968, the battles of Duc Co, Kontum, Pleasure Range, Bambi Tui, Pleiku and more. Ive seen men blown apart,, their stomachs blown out, their body parts retrieved in sandbags, whats left of soldiers skinned alive; dont give me your sheit. if there is something I've not seen, try to imagine that. you are right, I am angry, the lies are just over the top and they need to be dealt with.
Im pretty sure I know the consequences, more than you I'd bet. I know what it looks like, the results of mortars, b22 rockets, and everything else. I know the science of ballistics and weaponry and I do not trivialize what any one has seen, I have seen worse. I feel great compassion for those people, I hurt about it. These gun mass murders tear me up.Your high mindedness is sickening to me. My argument is not with the poor souls who also have witnessed mayhem, I am tired of the lies and deceit, I am tired of those who allow themselves to be brainwashed by the persons who want to disarm people like me who do no harm. I fight on the even keel, the anti gun people lie and lie and lie.
I at one time was willing tio give some ground in the name of sanity. No more. People like yourself are sucked in to this whole argument by liars. Are you petioning your congresspeople to hold criminals to their punishment? do you poetition them to obey the laws by not allowing plea downs? do you demand punishment to the fullest extent of the law? Why do you endeavor to punish me? No damn wonder peiople are joining the NRA in record numbers. No wonder we will give no ground. We know what the end results could be.

    Bookmark   February 28, 2013 at 7:38PM
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RpR_(3-4)

Posted by heri_cles
"Later in an interview he stated that certain
ammunition that is designed to explode inside
a victims body should also be banned except for use
by the military. He stated that while there is a chance to survive a conventional bullet from a hand gun, the wounds he saw from from assault weapons were so explosive that they shattered an enormous area of bone and tissue and one
could not survive from such wounds."--------------------This is about as absolute a bogus lie as is possible.

These supposed exploding bullets are BANNED by the
Geneva convention.
The doctor is either a two-bit liar or a complete moron.

    Bookmark   February 28, 2013 at 7:57PM
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fancifowl(5Pa)

And I say hes both. Not too hard to figure their agenda, and facts just dont mean anything, winess the post by Pidge.

    Bookmark   February 28, 2013 at 8:04PM
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heri_cles

At an earlier hearing in Newtown Dr. Begg testified:
"“On behalf of the ER, we tried our best. We tried our best.”

At the Senate Hearing this week, Dr. Begg testified about the relative severity of injuries sustained from the bullets used by Lanza to those he would expect to see from handguns.

"William Begg, an emergency-room doctor who treated injured survivors of the Sandy Hook shooting, told lawmakers that the victims were hit by up to 11 bullets each, citing the state coroner’s report. “When a child has three to 11 bullets and it’s an assault-type bullet, it explodes in the body,” he said. “. . . That’s not a survivable injury.”

He them showed slides of bullet wounds to demonstrate the severity of injuries from assault type weapons so that legislators could see what those weapons and the ammunition designed for them can do. They are weapons designed for war, not for home defense, not for hunting or for any other legitimate purpose outside the military.

Here is a link that might be useful: Assault-weapons ban subject of emotional Senate hearing

    Bookmark   February 28, 2013 at 8:09PM
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fancifowl(5Pa)

No, these weapons are NOT designed for war. Ask any soldier it that would be his choice.

Do you understand, these guns are available in over 150 calibers? There is NO typical bullet designed spedcificly for a sporting rifle. There is NO bullet which explodes in the body. try to grasp that, there are NONE. This baloney is pure hocus. If you believe otherwise, show me the proof. In all the years Ive owned guns and reloaded thousands of bullets, never have I heard of or seen exploding bullets. Its bullshoot, plain and simple.

    Bookmark   February 28, 2013 at 8:19PM
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david52_gw

There is no chance at all that this particular legislation will pass.

There are other pieces of legislation covering back ground checks, improved law enforcement, mental health and so on which we haven't seen yet. This may have a chance to pass.

But Sen Feinstein's bill won't pass, and I don't see why everybody gets so upset over it.

    Bookmark   February 28, 2013 at 8:39PM
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jodik_gw

Thank you, Fancifowl... I'm not an expert, and I can't even imagine what you might have seen in your lifetime... but I CAN imagine what the future might hold. I sure don't want to live in a nation where the cops and criminals are the only ones armed to the teeth.

You're absolutely right... guns are not the real issue. Bans and more laws are not the answer. They solve nothing.

Put the criminals where they belong and either rehabilitate them, or keep them there... and ensure accessible health and mental care for those who need it. Put the mentally ill in hospitals where they can get the treatment they need, and where they might be kept on their meds.

The lies and fearmongering do need to stop. It's not the sane, reasonable, responsible, safety conscious gun owners that are causing issues... it's those criminals who should be locked down, or the mentally troubled who have no access to care or no one to care for them.

We can't cut services to our veterans, close and empty out hospitals for the mental ill, offer nothing in exchange... plea bargain with dangerous criminals, parole them early due to overcrowding... and expect to live in a safe and peaceful society.

We have tons of laws on the books right now... let's enforce them properly... for starters.

If we never admit to or look at the root causes of society's issues in a rational, reasonable light, and we just keep listening to and recirculating fallacies and fears, we'll never see an end to or a lowering of the problems we DO have!

    Bookmark   February 28, 2013 at 8:52PM
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bill_vincent(Central Maine)

mutilated by Lanza's assualt weapon.

Right. Lanza had nothing to do with it.

It may be that you have never seen a human being blown to bits by an assault rifle.

Nor has anyone else. Maybe blown to bits by SOMEONE USING a rifle (as for the assault part, if I had no choice but to be shot, I'd much rather be shot by someone with an AR 15 than someone with a 30/06 hunting rifle. That's how "high powered" those rounds are)
That said, I don't blame FF for wigging out. You (not you personally) spread misinformation like it's gospel, and then sit back, wait for a reaction, and when you get it, jump up and down, pointing a finger calling us gun nuts. It's a neat little game you play.

“When a child has three to 11 bullets and it’s an assault-type bullet, it explodes in the body,” he said. “. . . That’s not a survivable injury.”

To say that's an embellishment would be a gross understatement, at best, and at worst (and most probable) an outright lie for effect. He said it did more damage than a handgun round would do. I take great exception to that, too. My .357 used to get loaded with WInchester Silvertip hollow points. I'll guarantee you that hollow point will do a whole LOT more damage than a 5.56 full metal jacketed round.

But Sen Feinstein's bill won't pass, and I don't see why everybody gets so upset over it.

Because if we DIDN'T get upset, people would figure we didn't care about it, and it WOULD pass. Let me tell you-- if they didn't have atleast SOME support from the pro gun community, none of the other bills would pass, either.

    Bookmark   February 28, 2013 at 9:18PM
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demifloyd(8)

Why do you endeavor to punish me? No damn wonder peiople are joining the NRA in record numbers. No wonder we will give no ground. We know what the end results could be.

*

Fancifowl, Amen.

And thank you sir, for your service to our country.

NO ONE has any place lecturing you about this subject in my opinion.

    Bookmark   February 28, 2013 at 10:05PM
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fancifowl(5Pa)

well, Im no freakin hero, I aint seen nuthin, but Im damn sick and tired of the bullsooit.

    Bookmark   February 28, 2013 at 10:31PM
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fancifowl(5Pa)

David, just so ya know it, I appreciate ypour post because they are mostly reasonable. You must be a good man. and so am I. we just see some things differently. I appreciate your service to Africa, I served the peoples of SE asia.

I get upset re: feinsteins bill because it serves no honest purpose. It is based purely on politices.people like her, and thiose others on the left seem to think they are above the majority of the citizens, they may have protection but they dont believe the masses are equal. Why do they warrant protection of arms as we, the peopkle do not? They are liars, they deceive the common people. Look whAT THEY SPREAD OVER THE msm, UN TRUTHS out right lies. What would you expect a citizen to say?

    Bookmark   February 28, 2013 at 10:48PM
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shaxhome

"Private security consultants patrolling the streets of Iraq have a new bullet for their guns: the blended metal 5.66 millimeter round, sold by Le Mas, Ltd., of Arkansas. The bullet is "frangible," meaning that it is able to travel through steel but not a human torso. Instead, it explodes inside the body, creating what an Army Times reporter called "untreatable wounds." "

Here is a link that might be useful: Looks Like You Were Wrong

    Bookmark   February 28, 2013 at 10:51PM
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marquest(z5 PA)

The anger and the attitude around this issue will eventually bring about the ban. Maybe not this year but eventually.

Because of the anger it will grow and it will only take a few more babies blown away. Watch this hatred will grow and it will send a message to the crazy. They will act and more babies will die. Society will demand something is done. There are a lot of rational gun owners out there. I am happy to stand in the line with the rational gun owners. Discussing gun violence control does not send me into anger.

Anger and guns do not mix well.

    Bookmark   February 28, 2013 at 10:57PM
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bill_vincent(Central Maine)

Hey Shaxhome-- try going to a gunshop, and see if you can buy any of those rounds. No, he was NOT wrong. Not about the bullets used in Newtown.

    Bookmark   February 28, 2013 at 11:28PM
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shaxhome

Sorry, Bill, but sounds like they're available now. You can't tell me that the manufacturers in Arkansas haven't let a few million of these slip out the door and onto the market...

And you and FF claimed that no such ammunition exists...

Just the facts.

    Bookmark   February 28, 2013 at 11:39PM
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fancifowl(5Pa)

Show me your data on a 5.66 round. only frangibl, legal would be the Glaser round Would be interesting to see what a .224 of your type might be. Prove it up now.Ill be happy to wait.

    Bookmark   February 28, 2013 at 11:44PM
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shaxhome

FF...suggest you contact the manufacturers and the users for that information. I've never claimed to be an expert in these matters. Just showing you that you were wrong in denying the existence of this ammunition.

You are the one claiming expertise.

It can be hard to admit your mistakes, I know.

    Bookmark   February 28, 2013 at 11:56PM
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RpR_(3-4)

Posted by shaxhome

"Private security consultants patrolling the streets of Iraq have a new bullet for their guns: the blended metal 5.66 millimeter round, sold by Le Mas, Ltd., of Arkansas. The bullet is "frangible," meaning that it is able to travel through steel but not a human torso. Instead, it explodes inside the body, creating what an Army Times reporter called "untreatable wounds."-------------------------------"Where do you find this absolute bs.
Frangible means it will totally disintegrate upon hitting ANY hard surface.
This is to prevent over penetration, i.e. so it will not go through walls and people, nor will it penetrate a bullet proof vest.
The caliber is 5.56 mm or .223,
It is the same diameter as a .22 rimfire hunting rifle to with in a hundred thousands of an inch or two
--------------------------------------------------------------

------------RBCD Performance Plus, Inc. of San Antonio, Texas produces ammunition marketed as blended-metal bullets. The ammunition is distributed by Le Mas Ltd. of Little Rock, Arkansas. However, RBCD's "Blended-Metal Technology" (BMT) is a trademark and not a description of bullet composition.
Independent testing by Dr. Gary Roberts showed that RBCD ammunition is, "nothing but lightweight, repackaged varmint bullets disguised with a black coating of moly, and driven to higher than normal velocities with concomitantly higher than normal pressures.--------------------------
------------------------------------------------------------

Hollow point bullets which have been available for over a hundred years do EXPAND, not explode.
One problem with hollow point bullets is at close range, often too much velocity causes them to pass through the target without expanding..

    Bookmark   March 1, 2013 at 12:05AM
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heri_cles

I will link to what Dr. Beggs testimony was.

I am sure that the shooters here can kill and maim and blow apart a human body to smithereens with any of your weapons.\

Dr. Begg is not a weapons or munitions expert but an emergency room physician that was testifying to the relative severity of injuries from various kinds of bullets....with the obvious hope that there is some sensible limitation on the fire power that you need in your home for self defense.

It is stunning how some of you defend the proliferation of useless assault weapons and large ammunition clips instead of participating in and contributing to a sensible, rational debate. We cannot allow gun manufacturers to make and sell any weapon and any type of ammunition. We cannot make it easier for a lone gunman to massacre school children, 20 Kindergarten kids, or scores of people at a mall, a theater or other public place. If you do not recognize that we have to create some sensible limitations on weapons and ammunition sales to the public and refuse to even make any useful suggestions, then I guess the battle lines are drawn.
No government regulation of weapons right? Sure, right-e-o, we will continue to allow sales of assault weapons at any gun show without background checks as well... weapons that allow you shooters to outgun law enforcement or to shoot up a school like you are in a war zone. bang. bang bang bang you're all dead. 2nd Amendment Insanity, Guns Gawn Wild,
the New Wild West, we want our country back, live free or die.

Here is a link that might be useful: Dr. Beggs testimony before the Senate

    Bookmark   March 1, 2013 at 1:22AM
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esh_ga

I don't think this ban will happen; in fact I know it won't. But it is a shame how you can't even have a discussion about it for the posturing by those that will do anything to defend that all available weapons continue to be all available.

No wonder we will give no ground. We know what the end results could be.

Fear that you will lose ANY ground is what that is.

But then, what anti gun idiot is interested in the facts anyhow?? The anti crowd can only try to belittle someone who presents facts, they have no desire to know the truth.

It obviously goes both ways.

    Bookmark   March 1, 2013 at 7:30AM
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david52_gw

Maybe we should post some of the fear-mongering distortions and outright lies that come so often from the NRA. Sort of balance out Ms Feinstein's 'going nowhere' legislation stuff.

I don't have time to find and post it now, but the latest was something about the need to be heavily armed following Hurricane Sandy, what with all the hordes of swarthy-complexioned folks looting and stuff.

Which never happened, but lets not let that get in the way of scaring people into donating money.

    Bookmark   March 1, 2013 at 9:57AM
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fancifowl(5Pa)

this administration is working over time to frightren people. how about the sequester balonet just for starters. Where has the NRA stated anybody shouldbe heavily armed? I do believe the NRA does tend to overstate at times, not nearly as much as this administration has.
No, this ban will not happen, thats no reason not to think they will persist.Being on gautrd is prudent.

Now talk about persistant and consistant, how bout the assault weapon lies. These guns simply are NOT assault weapons, have you read anything about what they actually are? obviously not. persisting in calling them such is not factual, it is meant to do one thing only, demonize a perfectly legitimate hunting rifle.

Many useful suggestions have been put forth many times. They are unheeded by those with only 1 agenda. To take away weapons from law abiding citizens.
It seems plenty obvious that the people should be armed as well as any police.

    Bookmark   March 1, 2013 at 10:11AM
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esh_ga

Many useful suggestions have been put forth many times. They are unheeded by those with only 1 agenda.

It is so funny how that goes both ways here.

    Bookmark   March 1, 2013 at 10:18AM
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ohiomom

Well there is no shortage of extremists (left or right) in this country. There is a video available at the link.

Everyone has an agenda, just depends on which side of the aisle you are most comfortable.

There will be no significant legislation passed, it is all a dog and pony show by both sides.

"we the people" do like our political theater.

Here is a link that might be useful: source of course

    Bookmark   March 1, 2013 at 10:40AM
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WxDano(5b-2a-6/7)

this administration is working over time to frightren people.

following in the proud Dem tradition of Yellowcake, terra! Orange Alert! We'll pertekt yeh! Soviet menace, commanists, McCarthy's black lists...oh, wait...

Teh comedy is funny here lately.

    Bookmark   March 1, 2013 at 10:42AM
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heri_cles

how bout the assault weapon lies. These guns simply are NOT assault weapons, have you read anything about what they actually are? obviously not. persisting in calling them such is not factual, it is meant to do one thing only, demonize a perfectly legitimate hunting rifle.

Denials, accusations, demonetization, endless qualifications, yet nothing helpful or useful from the riflemen.
-----------------------------
"Adam Lanza blasted through the glass doors of the Sandy Hook Elementary School clutching a military-style Bushmaster rifle with 30 rounds in the clip and hundreds more at the ready. When his chilling rampage was over minutes later, Lanza had used the weapon to kill 20 students and six adults.

Bushmaster's version of the AR-15, a civilian firearm modeled after the military M-16 rifle, has a grim history, with links to the D.C.-area sniper shootings. But under Connecticut's firearms laws, considered strong by national standards, the lethal weapon that Lanza employed was perfectly legal to own.
By law, it's not even an assault weapon.

"The term 'assault weapon,' as used by the media, is a media invention," said Robert Crook, executive director of the Coalition of Connecticut Sportsmen. "These are semi-automatic firearms that have military cosmetic characteristics. They look like our military firearms, but they're not."

Connecticut's (assault weapons ban) restricts semi-automatic rifles " those capable of firing a bullet with each pull of the trigger " only if they include a detachable magazine as well as at least two of five specific features. Aware of the restrictions in some states, weapons manufacturers have modified some models to stay within the laws. Bushmaster, for example, offers a "state-compliant" model with a telescoping stock that simply has been pinned in the fully open position, making it legal for sale.

Beyond the military look of the weapon, Lanza's rifle was equipped with a magazine capable of firing 30 rounds. In 2011, the Connecticut legislature considered a bill that would have banned high-capacity magazines with 10 or more rounds. But hundreds of gun enthusiasts showed up for a hearing on the bill, and thousands more wrote and called legislators. After the hearing, the bill died.

The .223-caliber ammunition used in Lanza's Bushmaster rifle is too small to legally be used for deer hunting in Connecticut, and Crook said that weapons like Lanza's are primarily used for target practice and competitions. He said that Bushmaster rifles can be found for less than $500 " at the low end of AR-15-style weapons.

Gun-rights advocates note that military-style weapons, and long guns in general, account for a small fraction of firearm homicides in the United States, the vast majority of which are committed with handguns. But they have also been the weapon of choice for a number of high-profile mass shootings, making them the focus of gun-control efforts.

Sen. Frank Lautenberg, D-N.J., said Monday that he would reintroduce legislation to ban magazines that can hold more than 10 rounds of ammunition. "These high-capacity magazines, which were used in Newtown, Aurora, Tucson, Virginia Tech, and so many other tragedies, were designed for one purpose only " to shoot and kill quickly," Lautenberg said in a statement.

And Sen. Joe Manchin, D-W.Va., a Second Amendment advocate who earned an "A" rating from the National Rifle Association, said that the carnage in Newtown "has changed where we go from here."

"Never before have we seen our babies slaughtered. It's never happened in America that I can recall," Manchin told MSNBC. "I don't know anyone in the sporting or hunting arena that goes out with an assault rifle, I don't know anybody who needs 30 rounds in a clip to go hunting."

Activists are looking for action closer to home as well.

"As we mourn those lost we must also raise our voices and call on our political leaders to finally begin a serious, in-depth discussion on how to prevent the nonstop flow of gun violence that plagues our nation," the group Connecticut Against Gun Violence said in a statement. "Like so many other problems in our country, guns have become a polarizing topic. But if now is not the time to talk about our gun policies, when is?"

Crook said that he doesn't have the answer to avoiding another tragedy like the Newtown killings. But he said that the focus on high-capacity magazines is misplaced.

"People are concerned that a 30-round magazine versus a 10-round magazine is somehow significant," Crook said. "In order to change a magazine, you push a button, the magazine drops out of the bottom, you immediately slide a new one in. It takes about a second, second and a half, to do it. So there's no real benefit to banning these things."

Nevertheless, Crook is bracing for new efforts to put high-capacity magazines off-limits in Connecticut.

"The magazine ban might come back" when the legislature is in session next year, Crook said. But he's not overly concerned.

"We killed it once," he said. "And I would suspect once things quiet down a little bit, we'll probably do it again."
==================================

Yes, these NRA folks are so clever at gun propaganda and the gun manufacturers so willing to thwart the intent of gun legislation in order to increases sales of weapons.

The problem with the 1994 assault weapons ban and others framed like it are than they attempt to classify weapons by features which the gun manufacturers have been able to work around or NRA shills have been able to argue around. We need to tighten up the language in a new weapons law, one designed to make it more difficult for gun manufacturers to make weapons intended to kill scores of people in a small period of time and illegal for those to be sold.

Here is a link that might be useful: The assault weapons shell game

    Bookmark   March 1, 2013 at 11:07AM
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bill_vincent(Central Maine)

Denials, accusations, demonetization, endless qualifications, yet nothing helpful or useful from the riflemen.

Funny-- I see people like you in exactly the same light.

    Bookmark   March 1, 2013 at 9:35PM
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fancifowl(5Pa)

Yeh, explain the denials, accusations, qualifications, blah,blah stuff, please.

I mean we hear everyday the lies and misinformation from the anti crowd. Their total lack of know;ledge about weaponry needs to be qualified.

    Bookmark   March 1, 2013 at 9:48PM
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