Black Jungle Butter Beans - 2012

cindy_gaMay 16, 2012

As the last thread was getting so long, I thought I'd start a new one. Ted and Harry - are you finding the HBJBBs (4 bean improved) are slow to germinate and get going? I planted 6 seeds, got two that germinated right away and a third sprouted about two weeks after. Anyway, I'm looking forward to another great year of the butterbeans. Thanks to some generous folks on the board - I'm trying a bunch of different lima type beans this year. It's going to be a good beany year!

Cindy

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flintknapper(9a)

Cindy, I was really dissapointed with the slow germination of the seed I planted. It took over one month to get only half of the seed to come up. As you and Ted found out and what I have known for as long as I have been growing them, lots of dry pods shatter and spreads seed on the ground and after they overwinter,they come up as volunteers in the spring. I always take advantage of them by digging them up with a good ball of dirt and transplant them were I want them. This is the first time I have planted BJBB seed since back in the 90s when they were given to me. It is probably my fault. I kept the 4 seed to the pod seed in my bedroom all winter instead of freezing them. When I realized I was having a problem I put the remaining seed in the freezer seed bank.Today I will plant some of them today to see if that is the problem. I will let you know the outcome in about a week.

    Bookmark   May 17, 2012 at 10:29AM
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aftermidnight Zone7b B.C. Canada

I started six seeds in the greenhouse, so far of the six three have germinated, they germinated about four or five days apart. The ones that did look strong and healthy and as I'll be growing them in the greenhouse it should give them a fighting chance. If not I'll have a very attractive vine as the leaves are really pretty.

Annette

    Bookmark   May 17, 2012 at 11:42AM
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wertach zone 7-B SC

Hi Cindy, I haven't been able to plant the 4 seed per pod yet. I was waiting since we had such a late frost. Then it set in to raining and it has been too wet to plant.

I was hoping for this weekend, but we had one heck of a storm last night from 11 to 1 it poured rain and hailed. I am on call and had to go out in the storm, roads were flooded all around here.

When I left for work this morning my corn was laying flat and I'm sure that I have a lot of other damage, too dark to see. A lot of my mulch was in the road too, probably a few plants!

    Bookmark   May 17, 2012 at 12:05PM
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wertach zone 7-B SC

I kept them in the fridge, do you think that will be cold enough? Or should I freeze them? I can't plant for at least a week now. The ground never froze this winter and the volunteers came up fine.

    Bookmark   May 17, 2012 at 12:12PM
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flintknapper(9a)

Ted, your guess is as good as mine. We only had one lite freeze this past winter and I had little BJBB plants all over the place this spring. I would think that your seed in the fridge would germinate better than mine spending the winter in my bedroom that probably never got below 65 degrees. I planted 5 seed that have been in the deep freezer about one month, in 4" pots in my greenhouse this morning. Maybe that will shed a little lite on the germinating problem. Live and learn. I've got other bean varieties that were never chilled and had no germinating problems. I have some fresh shucked crazy beans that came up in three days and are now growing like weeds. Maybe the BJBB originated in a jungle setting at a high elevation and had to stay dormant thru cool temps during the winter months. I have wondered for 15 or 16 years about were they came from and probably will never know the anwser.

    Bookmark   May 17, 2012 at 2:41PM
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cindy_ga

Ted - so sorry about your wild weather! Ours cooled off from March's hot temps - the garden is somewhat confused... Harry - that's interesting on the needing cold/freeze. Since I have raised beds, I wind up hand turning the soil (usually top 4-6 inches) to loosen it up for planting and that interrupts the volunteer sprouts. I also add soil and compost to the beds in the spring. I only found a few BJBB volunteers in the aisles. I have many tomato volunteers tho - everywhere thanks to pillaging squirrels. Annette - I love the look of the vines too. Planted some blue hyacinth beans and Japanese Sword beans as ornamentals this year - I'm really looking forward to the wild look!

    Bookmark   May 18, 2012 at 7:20AM
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fusion_power

I had about 20 seed and planted them roughly a month ago. All but two seed germinated, but it took them 2 weeks to start growing. We had two very heavy rains and they took off after the second one.

DarJones

    Bookmark   May 18, 2012 at 8:59AM
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jolj(7b/8a)

To cool, then too wet here in Lugoff too.
I planted one hill at the end of my last tomato row, just to see & it came up. I will plant all the beans this weekend, even if I have to cover the damp soil to keep the sun off it.
I could wet it after turning it , but that out of the pan into the fire.
Thanks to Harry & wertech for the HBJBB & Tom for the Greasy beans.

    Bookmark   May 18, 2012 at 3:10PM
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shuffles_gw

I planted a 15' row in the ground in February. The seeds seemed to germinate just fine. The seeds were a gift, so I don't know if they were refrigerated or frozen. I will have to check. They look like they are close to harvest stage - just over three months. Is that normal?

    Bookmark   May 21, 2012 at 3:41PM
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fusion_power

The beans are starting to form runners. This is relatively slow compared to similar beans I am growing this year.

DarJones

    Bookmark   May 21, 2012 at 11:19PM
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wertach zone 7-B SC

I finally got mine planted Sunday, it was windy for a few days so it was barely dry enough. Too wet on one end so I made short rows. Had to get at least part of them in! I Planned to plant today but it rained again yesterday.

I'll go back and finish them when it dries out some more. It is supposed to be near 90 for the next few days. But they are calling for more storms. It's cloudy 71 degrees with 80% humidity right now.

A guy at work said his were about 12 inches high. He lives about 30 miles north of me, so he has had different weather. He didn't get a killing late frost and has missed the hard rains and wind that I've had.

    Bookmark   May 23, 2012 at 1:15PM
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wertach zone 7-B SC

I'm amazed! They are up in 5 days! It looks like I got nearly 100% germination. I'm going to plant the rest of them late this evening.

    Bookmark   May 25, 2012 at 1:42PM
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jolj(7b/8a)

How high or long do the runners get on this HBJBB plant.
I may try a single pole per plant.
wertach, what is the latest we should plant HBJBB in S.C. & make dry seeds in the vine?

    Bookmark   May 26, 2012 at 10:35AM
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cindy_ga

I just found my second planting is up - that was five days too. I'm not sure if 100%, but much better than last time (reseeded twice!). Now if only the kudzu bugs will leave them alone.

    Bookmark   May 26, 2012 at 10:38AM
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wertach zone 7-B SC

@jolj I really don't know for sure, but I would think that you could plant them as late as July. They will produce until frost kills them.

They also dry very quickly, I have skipped a day or so picking them and had dry ones all over.

I had them on a 5' trellis last year and they outgrew it, leaned over and attached to the corn growing in the next row! I'm guessing that they would probably reach 10' if you let them.

    Bookmark   May 26, 2012 at 12:14PM
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cindy_ga

Sorry Jolj - I missed your question yesterday. Mine are growing on a cattle panel that is 16 feet bent into an arch - so about 7 feet tall at top. The BJBBs last year reached the top and then went down the otherside about 3 feet. I planted the last ones in July, started harvesting from those in Sept and they produced into November when finally the cold beat them back. They produced a bit into Dec, but it was kind of pitiful as not enough sun or heat. I finally tore them out. Many dried in the pods. Hope this helps.

    Bookmark   May 27, 2012 at 12:23PM
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jolj(7b/8a)

Yes, thank you both.

    Bookmark   May 29, 2012 at 4:33PM
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jolj(7b/8a)

Hi cindy,wertach
My first hill of BJBB has began to run, & it has 5 or 6 runners on only one bean plant. Will all my beans grow like this?
If so I will need a Trellis next year.

    Bookmark   June 3, 2012 at 1:47AM
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wertach zone 7-B SC

Yes jolj, you need a trellis.

    Bookmark   June 3, 2012 at 7:17AM
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flintknapper(9a)

Joli, Send me an email so I can send you a picture of my current crop of BJBBs and you can get an idea about how much trellis you will need.

    Bookmark   June 3, 2012 at 8:48AM
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cindy_ga

Last year my BJBBs climbed a cattle panel trellis - up one side and half way down the other, that's about 11 feet!

Mine are starting to run finally too - slow start on the HJBBs.

    Bookmark   June 4, 2012 at 7:51AM
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wertach zone 7-B SC

Disaster struck last night.

I turned off the water to my scarecrow sprinkler to add another one for extra protection against deer.

Just as I was finishing my brother called, wanting me to help him with moving some heavy stuff.

I forgot to turn the water back on. The deer had a party. They topped all of the BJBB's, green beans and okra.

I know that they will recover, but it is a big setback. I think I'm going to apply for one of those nuisance hunting permits!

    Bookmark   June 4, 2012 at 3:08PM
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cindy_ga

Oh Ted - I am so sorry. That hurts. A lot! I hope the warming weather will hurry the process along. I managed to break off one of my trial beans' runner. It's growing multiples now leaving me to wonder if I should pinch them early.

The permit sounds like a good plan!

    Bookmark   June 4, 2012 at 5:04PM
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jolj(7b/8a)

I got one of the MH permit a few years ago.
More then one hunter can use it, if they are named on the MHP.

    Bookmark   June 9, 2012 at 11:32AM
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jolj(7b/8a)

My HBJBB is blooming.

This plant is plant by it's self, first for seeds.

    Bookmark   June 12, 2012 at 7:39PM
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dancinglemons(7B VA)

I am new to BJBB. Silvia sent me seeds in 8/2011 and they have just begun to grow. I pre-sprouted them on wet paper towel stuck in open plastic water cup on top of seed heat mat. The seeds took about 2 weeks to sprout. I should mention that I soaked them first 24 hours in a 4/1 water/peroxide solution.

My question is this -- what is HBJBB ?? Thanks!

DL

    Bookmark   June 17, 2012 at 2:44AM
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wertach zone 7-B SC

"My question is this -- what is HBJBB ??"

Harry's BJBB !They all came from Harry Flint.

    Bookmark   June 17, 2012 at 6:23AM
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aftermidnight Zone7b B.C. Canada

The last of the 6 I planted popped up today, the first germinated on May 8. I have them planted in a tub in the greenhouse and so far they are looking good, in fact I think they might run amuck later on which is OK with me, they can duke it out with the tomatoes.

Annette

    Bookmark   June 17, 2012 at 4:28PM
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dancinglemons(7B VA)

Thanks wertach. In future I will call them HBJBB - must give credit where credit is due :-)

Thanks to Harry Flint!!!!

DL

    Bookmark   June 18, 2012 at 2:07AM
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wertach zone 7-B SC

oops, That was supposed to be Harry, Flintknapper.

    Bookmark   June 18, 2012 at 5:41AM
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renny11

Would someone please describe the growth habits of this bean? For some reason I thought it was a pole bean, but it does not seem to wrap and climb like other pole beans. Thanks.

    Bookmark   June 26, 2012 at 7:22AM
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fusion_power

It is a pole lima bean. The vertical habit is a bit weak which is typical of some tropical lima types. You may have to encourage the runners to start up poles or strings.

DarJones

    Bookmark   June 26, 2012 at 9:55AM
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wertach zone 7-B SC

I didn't have any problems with them attaching to my string trellis this or last year. Are you using something kinda slick like bamboo? Mine seemed to prefer the string where most beans grab the poles first.

I picked my first "mess as we say down here in SC" today. I'm having BJBBs with fresh tomatoes, squash, onions, and sweet pepper for supper!

    Bookmark   June 26, 2012 at 6:36PM
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cindy_ga

Mine do well climbing on cattle panel trellis. Last year I had some that actually took over a tomato plant - it was kind of interesting to see the occasional tomato leaf, fruit or flower poke out from under a mass of bean leaves.

    Bookmark   June 28, 2012 at 8:38AM
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renny11

I guess I needed a little patience. they are slowly but surely starting to climb. But like Fusion power said, they are weak climbers. I am looking forward to harvest. Thanks.

    Bookmark   June 28, 2012 at 10:15PM
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aftermidnight Zone7b B.C. Canada

I'm getting excited, my BJBB's in the greenhouse are starting to flower and there's lot more forming so it looks like I might get to taste some after all :).
I can see a few ants on the stems but don't see any aphids I'll keep an eye out for the little beasties (being polite here) also since my BJBB's are planted in a tub should I give them a bit of fertilizer and if so what should I use?.
The weather has finally smartened up so all the other beans I have planted out in the garden are starting to do their thing, I was beginning to wonder if this year was going to be a bust.

Annette

    Bookmark   July 6, 2012 at 12:32PM
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flintknapper(9a)

Annette. A ratio of 8-24-24 has been working for me on all beans here in SE Texas. Just don't use too much. Growing them in a container probably is a little different than in ground planting.
Harry

    Bookmark   July 6, 2012 at 1:07PM
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wertach zone 7-B SC

I picked my first "mess" of the year this morning! I will be eating them for supper tonight, with fresh tomato, and cornbread! I wish my okra was ready!

    Bookmark   July 13, 2012 at 11:55AM
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cindy_ga

Hey Ted - I picked my first batch this morning too. Not many yet, but a nice sampling. I'm also loving my Christmas Limas this year. Those are producing like mad. Love them!

    Bookmark   July 13, 2012 at 1:17PM
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wertach zone 7-B SC

I have a question for you on Christmas Lima's. I love them fresh shelled but don't like them at all when they are dried.

I picked some dried ones up at a farmers market that is on the edge of the mountains last fall,they weren't to tasty. I have bought them in the pods there before and they were great.

For some reason I have hard luck with them, I think it's just too darned hot where I live. That farm has much cooler weather than me.

Is it my taste buds or do you feel the same?

    Bookmark   July 13, 2012 at 1:35PM
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cindy_ga

The first batch of Christmas limas that I ate were dried and I soaked and then cooked them. I was immediately sold! The fresh from the garden were even better. I'm planning to both freeze and dry some beans to see how they compare in flavor. I've always had good luck with freezing peas and the limas, not so good with snap beans.

I think we are hotter than you, but the ones I ate from dried came from the Midwest, so I'm not sure that is a definitive answer. Hope your beans are doing well!

Cindy

    Bookmark   July 17, 2012 at 2:41PM
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shankins123(7aOKC)

Hello, BBFs (that's butter bean friends)!!

I found this thread accidentally, but I do have a question.
Last year, I ate the most unbelievable vegetarian butter bean soup at a local Souper Salad restaurant. I e-mailed corporate - no dice on the recipe. The beans in the soup were huge and very tender - not reminiscent of icky lima beans at all (hoping I don't offend!)
My question is this: of all of the butter beans out there, which ones are large and tend to cook up very velvety-tender? (second question might be...does anyone know this soup/have this recipe?)

Thanks to you all...Sharon, in central Oklahoma

    Bookmark   July 17, 2012 at 7:43PM
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wertach zone 7-B SC

Cindy, I have frozen some. I just balanced. cooled and added enough water to cover. They were great.

Sharon, in central Oklahoma. How big is huge on your scale? 1/2" or bigger? Christmas limas and many others are big ones, what color were they? Most likely brown after cooking? ;)

What we call butter beans around here can have all kinds of different colors when they are not cooked. They normally turn brown or beige after cooking. Someone might correct me on this, I'm just using my own experiances. Unlike the icky lima beans which turn white unless picked very young.

I like those icky lima beans also, but I prefer butter beans!

PS I have Hercules butter peas cooking for supper at this moment. I will gorge myself with them and regret it later..... LOL

    Bookmark   July 18, 2012 at 6:21PM
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jolj(7b/8a)

I have 30 dry HBJBB for seeds.
Hopefully I can plant a full row next year, on a trellis.

    Bookmark   July 18, 2012 at 10:21PM
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shankins123(7aOKC)

Wertach,

Thanks for asking :~)

The beans in that soup cooked up to be about 1 1/4" long, and about 3/4 - 1" wide - they were large! And yes, they were a beige to tan color.

The "icky" limas I referred to are the small, light green ones that are rather dry (and not creamy), as found in vegetable soups sometimes.

Sharon

    Bookmark   July 19, 2012 at 10:49AM
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cindy_ga

Sharon,

Our local grocery has a "Mediterranean Bar" which has a great collection of antipasta type foods and that includes some marinated "Gigandes" beans. They are close to the size you're describing. There is a thread on this board about Gigandes - that might be what you're looking for.

The ones at the grocery were awesome, very creamy. I'm trying some seed this year, so far, just a few flowers, no beans. But my weather may be too hot for them.

Cindy

Here is a link that might be useful: Gigandes

    Bookmark   July 19, 2012 at 11:42AM
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wertach zone 7-B SC

Sharon,

Do you have a Whole foods market in your area or something similar? They have a large variety of dry bulk beans. You might find them there.

I remember buying some very large, very delicious ones there last fall and I think they were Gigandes, not sure. I meant to go back and get some to plant this spring but I forgot.

I don't go there very often because my closest one is 25 miles away.

    Bookmark   July 19, 2012 at 12:51PM
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aftermidnight Zone7b B.C. Canada

My BJBB's are loaded with flowers and there's lots of small beans forming. Mine are planted in a tub just inside the greenhouse door which is kept open 24-7 since the warm weather arrived.
The flowers themselves are small compared to the other types of beans I'm growing, is this their nature? I want to keep most for seed but hope to sample a few that is if I can figure out what stage to pick them.
They are doing so well in the greenhouse I might try a pole of them in the garden next year. The Chinese Red Noodles planted at the same time in the greenhouse aren't fairing as well, no flowers yet.

Annette

    Bookmark   July 21, 2012 at 9:32PM
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fusion_power

Annette, like most sieva type lima beans, they are best picked at the green mature stage and shelled. Boil them in water at least 45 minutes, then season and serve. They taste very good with other vegetable dishes and with cornbread.

I picked and shelled a pint of Black Jungle butter beans this evening. I started with 20 seed earlier this spring, got 18 plants, and those plants are loaded down with beans that are slowly maturing. From what I can see, I should wind up with about 1/2 gallon of mature seed.

DarJones

    Bookmark   July 22, 2012 at 9:35PM
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jolj(7b/8a)

Went out to water the HBJBB & the amount of tiny bean shells & blooms has doubled. I thought the beans would increase when it got cooler, but not in August!

    Bookmark   August 16, 2012 at 10:13PM
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aftermidnight Zone7b B.C. Canada

I just harvested a handful of seed tonight from the ones growing in the greenhouse, a few of the pods were brittle dry so I shelled them.
These pods sure are flat compared to the beans I'm used to growing, this lot I'll save for seed but think if started early enough I might get away with growing them outside next year. I now have an idea of what they look like when they're ready to pick as shellies too, this has been another learning curve for me.

Annette

    Bookmark   August 24, 2012 at 11:18PM
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hementia8(8 MS)

Does anyone have this one or any heirloom beans for trade
I have quite a few for trade
See my have list
Charlie

    Bookmark   August 28, 2012 at 4:55PM
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aftermidnight Zone7b B.C. Canada

My handful of seed, enough to grow next year, I think we'll eat the rest.

Annette

    Bookmark   August 28, 2012 at 10:54PM
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wertach zone 7-B SC

Check your e-mail Charlie.

    Bookmark   August 29, 2012 at 12:24PM
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aftermidnight Zone7b B.C. Canada

We had our first BJBB's for dinner tonight, OMG were they good, they just melt in your mouth I now know why they are called butter beans. I thought they had a nutty flavor reminiscent of walnuts.
We could have another feed off the few plants in the greenhouse but I'll be saving these for seed too. I don't know if they will grow in the garden here so next year I'll be growing twice as many in the greenhouse as well as a few outside.

Annette

    Bookmark   August 29, 2012 at 9:26PM
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