Acer palmatum 'Lionheart'

garcanadMarch 1, 2008

Based on various sources of description, Lionheart is supposed to be equivalent to a red form of Seiryu. Since Seiryu is one of the most ornamental tree in my garden, I was trying to find some Lionheart pictures on-line to see what a mature Lionheart looks like in various seasons, but so far without success. Can anyone share some pictures of your Lionheart? Thanks

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mattlwfowler

I only have one that is quite small, and I haven't had much luck finding images of mature ones either. But from what I understand it is not quite the equivalent of seiryu. The tips don't stay as upright so the effect is a bit more of an upright spreading mound.

    Bookmark   March 2, 2008 at 12:09PM
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myersphcf(z6a IL)

I have a large one containerized but it was left leafless last summer so no good photos email me personally and I will send you some in the spring...That being said it DOES NOT seem to take sun as well as the Seiryu........... obviously!!!..but where you live that may be a mute point.

I would keep it containerized as it is not known for it's winter hardiness but that is scuttlebutt and i am not big into scuttlebutt ... Butt ;>) I wouldn't take that chance... the Seiryu seems pretty winter hardy ...at least mine is and is both planted out and has had no winter die baxck so far..David

    Bookmark   March 2, 2008 at 1:14PM
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garcanad

Thanks mattlwfowler and myersphcf for the info. Would the texture of the leaves for Lionheart be as delicate as Seiryu, and the fall colour as brilliant?

    Bookmark   March 3, 2008 at 2:30AM
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jeff_al

apparently, spelling variations give different results from google image searches.
oddly, i got two hits by breaking the cultivar name into two words and using "acer palmatum lion heart" with one and "japanese maple lionheart" with the other.
not much out there, though.
here is one link and the other below.
http://www.wjhooftman.nl/planten_info.htm
(scroll down the list to find the plant)

Here is a link that might be useful: 'lionheart' pic

    Bookmark   March 4, 2008 at 9:13AM
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mattlwfowler

A simple answer to the delicacy issue is no, it is not as finely dissected and the mature leaves seem larger to me which give it a courser texture. Seems to be a good selection from what I can tell, but not a red seiryu.

    Bookmark   March 4, 2008 at 6:35PM
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garcanad

Thanks mattlwfowler, jeff.
I think I will get one anyway (even though the leaves are not as refined). May be some year it can provide a seedling with improved leaf and height attributes. ;>)

    Bookmark   March 5, 2008 at 12:23PM
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bboy(USDA 8 Sunset 5 WA)

Duncananddavies.com says

"Acer palmatum dissectum 'Lionheart'
A differing Duncan & Davies dissectum selection with an upright trunk and
horizontally arranged branches that are drooping at the tips. Strong, small
tree like form, differing from the typically mushroom shaped dissectum
weeping forms. Not quite as upright and arching as ÂSeiryuÂ. Having a tiered
and layered appearance with attractive oriental character, becoming broadly
dome shaped when mature. The foliage is purple-red in spring becoming
bronzed in mid summer. Autumn tones red and orange. 4 metres (13 feet)"

    Bookmark   March 6, 2008 at 5:11PM
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myersphcf(z6a IL)

sounds like a good description...I would take the height with a LARGE grain of salt in zone five ... I do see this as a rather conterdictory statement " Not quite as upright and arching " which is it and which is it less of...upright and arching are not synonomous but rather contradictoty .

From what i have read and observed the Lionheart is a semi erect red dissectum ...while the Seiryu is likley the only ( at least true that I know of )upright ( erect) dissectum....

Comparison between the two is a bit of a stretch and likely the result of a sales pitch to JM'ophiles and wannabee JM 'Ophiles searching for missing links in the bizzillion cultivars out there rather than any sane reality ...a dose of which of which many growers are in big need of IMHO >>>David

    Bookmark   March 6, 2008 at 5:32PM
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jeff_al

if you research the plant using the botanical name in ron's post(including "dissectum"), you get several pages of information.
the best photo of the tree's form that i saw after doing that is of one posted on the ubc botanical garden forum.
googling can be so fickle unless you provide the favored moniker!

    Bookmark   March 7, 2008 at 11:06AM
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garcanad

Jeff
Before I started this thread, UBC forum was one of the few places that provide some pictures of Lionheart but only closeup shots. Did you see a different link in that forum that shows the tree form? The link that visited was: http://www.ubcbotanicalgarden.org/forums/showthread.php?t=2652

    Bookmark   March 7, 2008 at 11:25AM
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bboy(USDA 8 Sunset 5 WA)

"Upright and arching" really doesn't seem too different from "semi erect". Catalogs often combine terms like that when describing trees, it might be better written as something like "developing upright trunks with arching branches" or "initially upright, later spreading".

    Bookmark   March 7, 2008 at 12:09PM
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jeff_al

link below is the first site that showed after the search.
it must be a high graft - i don't see many lower limbs.
looks like it could be about 6' tall from the top of the container.
the growth form description from the duncan and davies site seems to fit this one.

Here is a link that might be useful: ubc forum

    Bookmark   March 7, 2008 at 2:03PM
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bboy(USDA 8 Sunset 5 WA)

Does look like a reddish 'Seiryu' at that stage.

    Bookmark   March 7, 2008 at 11:05PM
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garcanad

jeff
That is the most 'upright' Lionheart picture that I have seen so far. Thanks. It does look like, as an ornamental landscape object, it can achieve a 'cutleaf tree form'.
Now I am curious; I don't recall I came across a 'tall' high grafted weeping form of maple in my area. What are the typical mature heights achievable for high grafted weeping form of maples in general. Does anybody has a link that can illustrate?

    Bookmark   March 7, 2008 at 11:46PM
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myersphcf(z6a IL)

I personally do NOT like high grafted dissectums but how high is the question 10" ok 18-36 " ehhhh??? ..most of the really high ones look terrible IMHO...Most grafters DO NOT match RS to tree ( making them look really stupid for years) and most do both this "non matching" and high grafting to save money and time it's a business ya know "time + labor = $$$$$"..cause you need to stake the tree and do so for many years to keep it from becomming "cousin it ".( which in some cases looks ok if you have the space for such spread aqnd often messiness. Wahtever you do it will still be a weeping dissectum over time a short or tall mushroom or weeping small tree ..NOT an upright.whether the graft is 6" or 48" or 60". I guess if you topiaried and wired it you could train each and every branch to be straghter and a bit more tree like ...bit it would likely look horrible...thus the yearnig by some for these mythical uprights of which a Lionheart is "somewhat" of. David

    Bookmark   March 8, 2008 at 1:44AM
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bboy(USDA 8 Sunset 5 WA)

As with other high grafted or high pruned (or trained) specimens of other kinds of trees the point is how it will look (and fit into the site, in the case of street trees or others that must have clearance) years ahead. Weeping forms, including weeping laceleaf maples are much better for having some height from which the branches can cascade. Even when on a trunk of some length strongly pendulous forms may need to be above a wall or next to a pond to look rightly sited, appearing elsewhere to be crashing into the earth. Here it seems most weeping forms end up being lopped, perhaps because of this generally shared impression. The commonly purchased weeping cherries and weeping pussy willows seem almost invariably to end up badly whacked, destroying the point of these particular kinds. (Weeping laceleaf maples also often end up looking as though floating over the ground, although many apparently have the sense not to give them the salad bowl haircuts the cherries may be subjected to).

    Bookmark   March 8, 2008 at 2:16PM
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myersphcf(z6a IL)

I agree and thats why staking and leaving lower branches is perferable IMHO..they look better...Both spreaders and taller dissectums have there place ...it's all about how they "get" there ..silly looking high grafts ( my opinion here) or staking ... staking allows you to keep lower branches and trim as necessary an option you don't have on extreemly high graft trees. I would say this is all personal opinion ...but I think if most collectors had a choice they would prefer staked low or lower grafts ... more versitle for placemant and they ( I BELIEVE) look better. but as I said previously whjen your grafting and marketing thousands this may not be an option .David

    Bookmark   March 8, 2008 at 2:26PM
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bboy(USDA 8 Sunset 5 WA)

Yes: training it up a stake gives you a nice feathered tree. However, weeping forms on standards will eventually grow down to the ground as well. Ideally no trees would be grafted at all.

    Bookmark   March 8, 2008 at 10:15PM
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