Should faltering Indian casinos be given Fed monies?

tobr24u(z6 RI)March 25, 2013

It seems that the economic downturn has hit our local casino, Foxwoods, hard causing a default on expansion loans. Grants from the Feds (you) are being used to keep the place afloat, and this is true for these tribal casinos across the country. I say that they should just crap out, how about you?

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esh_ga

No help for private business ventures.

    Bookmark   March 25, 2013 at 8:16AM
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pnbrown

Fook no!

While I appreciate the irony of native people profiting off of the misery and greed of the immigrants, instead of the other way around, I sure don't think they should get help doing it.

    Bookmark   March 25, 2013 at 8:26AM
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marshallz10(z9-10 CA)

No new taxes in support of gambling industry, no matter the ethnicity or economic sector. Of course, the tribes can claim to be distressed third-world entities and get foreign aid to tide them over during these hard times.

    Bookmark   March 25, 2013 at 8:32AM
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mrskjun(9)

Dang marshall, why didn't we think of that?

    Bookmark   March 25, 2013 at 9:07AM
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PRO
Brushworks Spectacular Finishes(5)

No. We should use the money to bail out state pension funds that are failing due to fraud and poor management.

    Bookmark   March 25, 2013 at 9:19AM
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kimka(Zone 6B)

The government has been making loans to all sorts of home owners and businesses to keep them from defaulting on loans. Why should Indian casinos be treated any differently by the government than AIG, Detroit or thousands of homeowners.

We are talking loans here and not grants. If we are talking grants, well IâÂÂd still rather see the money go to float a casino than pay million dollar bonuses to Wall Street companies.

    Bookmark   March 25, 2013 at 9:25AM
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jodik_gw

Looking back at why we're experiencing such a bad economic downturn, perhaps those who caused it should kick in and help fix what they broke.

    Bookmark   March 25, 2013 at 9:27AM
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mrskjun(9)

How far back do you want to go jodik?

    Bookmark   March 25, 2013 at 9:33AM
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demifloyd(8)

Let's start with FDR.

    Bookmark   March 25, 2013 at 9:44AM
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marshallz10(z9-10 CA)

He is dead.

    Bookmark   March 25, 2013 at 9:56AM
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dublinbay z6 (KS)

Could we clarify the language here? Is the question "should we GIVE Fed monies to Indian Casinos?" In which case, probably just about everybody would be against it.

Or is the question "Should Indian casinos be eligible to apply for the same loans that other private businesses are eligible for?" In that case, I'd guess many more people would say "yes."

So, do we phrase it in a way that is guaranteed to turn most people against the proposition or in a way that takes out the deliberate bias and propaganda and thus leaves it as an open business decision like any other business decision?

I don't know how good a LOAN it would be (compared to other loans), but I would certainly be willing to entertain the idea of a LOAN.

(And I'm not a gambler at all--never gone to a casino in my entire life.)

You do understand that LOANS have to be paid back with interest, whereas a GIVE-AWAY does not. Big difference there, right?

Kate

    Bookmark   March 25, 2013 at 10:12AM
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jodik_gw

Let's start with the beginning of the recession we're experiencing NOW. We don't have to go back too awfully far... it had something to do with Wall Street, the largest banking firms, and bundled mortgages or something like that... I'm sure you recall. It was in the news, and we even talked about it here... quite a bit, as I remember.

    Bookmark   March 25, 2013 at 10:12AM
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marshallz10(z9-10 CA)

Ahhh! Hah! A loan is different than a bail-out which implies that the bailer-outer assumes much of the risk if the receiving enterprise fails.

    Bookmark   March 25, 2013 at 10:17AM
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david52 Zone 6

How about they use the taxes from the mega lotto, which somebody else just won.

    Bookmark   March 25, 2013 at 10:33AM
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Brushworks Spectacular Finishes(5)

Jodik,

It was recent...yes indeed

To the dismay of many of Obama's supporters, nearly four years after the disaster, there has not been a single criminal charge filed by the federal government against any top executive of the elite financial institutions.

"It's perplexing at best," says Phil Angelides, the Democratic former California treasurer who chaired the bipartisan Financial Crisis Inquiry Commission. "It's deeply troubling at worst."

    Bookmark   March 25, 2013 at 10:36AM
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david52 Zone 6

At the link is a story about the tribe in question. Its not so much about bailing out the casino, its about helping the tribal members who are now broke because the casino is broke.

With the grants comes FBI scrutiny. And gee, it may come as a shock, but it seems that casino management might have had some 'issues'?

Here is a link that might be useful: link to story about this casino

    Bookmark   March 25, 2013 at 10:55AM
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momj47(7A)

No, but there can be Federal help for faltering schools and the Indian Health Service. Those programs matter.

    Bookmark   March 25, 2013 at 12:16PM
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mrskjun(9)

Wonder if a Casino is more likely to pay back a loan than say...Solyndra?

    Bookmark   March 25, 2013 at 12:27PM
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demifloyd(8)

Posted by mrskjun 9 (My Page) on
Mon, Mar 25, 13 at 12:27

Wonder if a Casino is more likely to pay back a loan than say...Solyndra?

*

Where's that screen cleaner?

Touche.

    Bookmark   March 25, 2013 at 12:41PM
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esh_ga

Kate, thanks for the clarification.

Wonder if a Casino is more likely to pay back a loan than say...Solyndra?

What do you think, mrskjun? Of course the ability to pay back should be taken into consideration as with any loan.

    Bookmark   March 25, 2013 at 12:51PM
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jodik_gw

I'm fairly certain, Brush, that power and influence play a role in the fact that no arrests were made for the shady behaviors that placed our nation on the edge of the precipice... and we'll probably never see any sort of justice for any of it. Not in this life, anyway...

    Bookmark   March 25, 2013 at 12:55PM
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elvis

"Should faltering Indian casinos be given Fed monies?"

Nope. If they're not making money, there's something going on big-time Fraud of some sort, most likely.

It's tempting to say by all means help keep those casinos afloat, because welfare rolls are way down on the reservations around here that have (successful) casinos. Everyone has a job. Schools and clinics are state of the art, social programs are humming along. All is peachy.

If the casinos are not making money, lending or giving them more will be throwing good money after bad.

Should the casinos be treated like any other business that asks for a loan? By all means. Businesses in trouble generally aren't loaned money, right?

    Bookmark   March 25, 2013 at 7:06PM
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florey

Foxwoods is waaay out in the boonies, 20 miles down narrow, curly, country roads in SE Connecticut. The buildings style is dated. The newer one, not far away, is another tribes, and is just off an interstate. This used to be doable from NYC and Boston, far but worth it
.Foxwoods had to jump through big regulatory hoops to get established. It was very successful for quite a while when there was no competition.

It was the nicest place outside of maybe Monte Carlo for high rollers.
The Highest. Now they go to China.

There soon will be a casino in western Mass- probably Springfield or Palmer.
And lots more all over.

And generalized access to gambling machines all, all, over.

Aahm agin' that.

Indian casinos were able to lift people out of dire poverty , for a while.
Foxwoods really helped out the CT economy, for a while.

It had the advantage of being far enough away, so that when, church tills, and those of municipalities, got dipped into, [ and it was more than from a 40 mile radius], it was less often from across the state.

Gambling sucks.
Money goes.
Out of local pockets.
Where?

Now it is seen as a way to save the day. In a town near you, maybe your street, at the corner gas station.

Not for all that long.
We'll have become degraded , um, society? self image?

Big Gambling, at a distance,
is one thing, allover is not going to be good.

    Bookmark   July 15, 2013 at 5:43PM
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art_1(10 CA)

Did you see the movie Casino Jack?

"Casino Jack is a 2010 biographical political satire film starring Kevin Spacey and directed by George Hickenlooper. The film focuses on the career of Washington, D.C. lobbyist and businessman Jack Abramoff, who was involved in a massive corruption scandal that led to his conviction, two White House officials, Rep. Bob Ney, and nine other lobbyists and congressional staffers. Abramoff was convicted of fraud, conspiracy and tax evasion in 2006, and of trading expensive gifts, meals and sports trips in exchange for political favors. Abramoff served three and a half years of a six-year sentence in federal prison, and was then assigned to a halfway house. He was released on December 3, 2010."

    Bookmark   July 15, 2013 at 10:48PM
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florey

Was the movie seen much? It didn't seem to get much distribution.
The very few news snippets were fascinating.

Gee, The heat's got me. I left out apostrophes above, and did not in general express myself clearly.

I fear, and am repelled by, an expanding oversupply of gambling opportunities. It will further coarsen people's moral fiber.

Take Atlantic City, which was doing poorly even before the needed hurricane 'Sandy' repairs. Renovation(s) are not taking. Profit is not happening.

It is an object lesson of the poverty that becomes evident when gambling is too accessible.
Yogi Berra once said - about a restaurant - "nobody goes there anymore, It's too crowded." That has been the direction of Atlantic City.

There is more poverty - now at 29%, and people have an aversion to the grimness and crime. Grimness in part from the presence of gambling.

There was a marvel of well run gambling, 50 miles south of us. years ago. The history channel has run a bunch of stories on that . Gambling great, poverty dire, not a democracy. Gambling brings poverty and social unrest.

The grimness that comes in the wake of gambling will
probably be coming to a street near you in a couple of years, as people in modern slot/video booths take up space at the gas station, spending the rent money, or money for the kid's shoes.

    Bookmark   July 20, 2013 at 11:01PM
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