a note on antisemitism

inkognitoMarch 20, 2012

Last week I was accused of not being able to read and more seriously of being an antisemite. I would like to quote MJ Rosenberg in this regard, he says "To trivialise anti-Semitism (and by extension the Holocaust) by tossing the "anti-Semite" charge around with joyful recklessness is ugly, disrespectful, and obscene."

Here is a link that might be useful: misuse of language

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There will always be haters in this world, Ink, who want everyone else to think and act and live just as they do. Unfortunately for them, reality doesn't work the way they're programmed to believe. :-)

    Bookmark   March 20, 2012 at 11:13AM
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ink - I am Jewish and I did not perceive anything you said as anti-semitic.

I think the fact that it clearly bothered you that someone called you that shows that you care. And it should bother you. From what I've seen, it's not true.

Just because you do not support the force used by the Israeli government does not make you an anti-semite. If it did, then call me one too!

    Bookmark   March 20, 2012 at 12:47PM
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And me, too.

    Bookmark   March 20, 2012 at 12:49PM
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nancy_in_venice_ca Sunset 24 z10

Last week I was accused of... being an antisemite.

I saw that accusation, and I apologize for not offering a rebuttal in your defense. That label is often used when information countering hasbara is presented.

MJ Rosenberg has been receiving his share of attacks from Alan Dershowitz and the usual suspects.

From Rosenberg's site: I have been under assault by various people on the right for my vigorous criticism of AIPAC and its role in promoting confrontation with Iran. My critics are particularly irked that I use the term Israel Firster to describe people who, in my opinion, put the interests of the Israeli right above everything else. This includes politicians such as Newt Gingrich, who as far as I know, is not Jewish. Watching the AIPAC conference convinced me that I must recommit myself to fighting those who are working to lead this country and/or Israel to war in Iran.

But I will do so without using the term "Israel Firster." The term was coined in 1960 by the late Abram Leon Sachar, founding President of Brandeis University, and a renowned Jewish historian (his son Howard Morley Sachar remains the greatest historian of contemporary Jewry) and was first used by the elder Sachar in a speech he delivered that year to a Zionist organization.

It has proven to be a distraction, allowing the pro-war lobby to focus on my choice of words rather than the substance of my arguments. I will not be using it again, for many reasons including the fact that some good people were genuinely offended by it. That was not my intention. My intention is to focus like the proverbial laser on the threat posed by war with Iran and the 45 year occupation. [...]

My message is this.

Many of the same people who pushed us into Iraq are doing the same thing with Iran. They are pressuring Congress to prevent the president of the United States from negotiating with the Iranian government. They are banning diplomatic contacts. They are (as they have for a decade) hyping the Iranian threat, in part because they want a war and, in part, because they want to use President Obama's reluctance to jeopardize lives as a tool to defeat him In November. And they are demanding that should Iran develop a nuclear bomb, we must not contain the threat (as we did with the Soviet Union, China, North Korea, Pakistan, etc) but should immediately go to war.

I have been fighting to help achieve a secure Israel, at peace with its neighbors, for more than 43 years. I continue to do that by fighting against a war that could eradicate Israel and endanger Jewish security in the United States and throughout the world. This war has to be prevented. The issue must not be what label I use to describe the war agitators. It is what the Iran war agitators are doing. They must be stopped.

The first step is continuing to shine a light on their activities. That is what I do.

    Bookmark   March 20, 2012 at 4:00PM
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I second every comment.

It's their favourite M.O. to silence criticism, along with the "self-hating Jew", to silence dissent.

Both are thrown around here, we're quite used to it. Me, I don't even bother adressing their baseless BS.

Ink, don't let them get to you!

    Bookmark   March 20, 2012 at 4:23PM
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I simply don't understand why being critical of Israel's actions and policies equates to antisemitism.

Is being critical of Iran's or Palestine's actions and policies anti Muslim?

One can be critical of a countries polices without being critical or judgmental of the predominant religion.

    Bookmark   March 20, 2012 at 5:09PM
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"Is being critical of Iran's or Palestine's actions and policies anti Muslim?" Yes, but it doesn't matter because the fact that Muslims are terrorists has been drummed into America's head, I say with sarcasm.

    Bookmark   March 20, 2012 at 7:20PM
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Some folks have a hard time between anti antisemitism & anti Zionism. There is no excuse for the former & many apologists for the later.

    Bookmark   March 20, 2012 at 10:34PM
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I didn't see the accusation and don't know who this person who made it could have been - but I can only see where this person throwing that accusation around must have been one who stumbled upon this site, stirred the pot just for the fun of it and then left - because anyone who reads in this forum for any length of time longer than, say (to be completely fair) three weeks would know that if they were going to make up a list of probable candidates in this forum which could come close to fitting the term of being anti semitic, Ink would be one of the very last names on that list to ponder.

It's simply not in his nature.

Anyone who has been paying attention knows that already. So if it was somebody who has been here even a fairly short while, that was just a vicious hit with an ugly stick Ink, one not worthy of any notice at all.

    Bookmark   March 21, 2012 at 1:54AM
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marshallz10(z9-10 CA)

I too missed the offending/offensive slur and stand up for Ink along side the above defenders.

    Bookmark   March 21, 2012 at 7:13AM
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Thanks everyone, obviously self knowledge covers it for me but none the less it hurt and it is good to know that hers is a minority view.

    Bookmark   March 21, 2012 at 7:42AM
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Rosenberg sounds like my kind of guy, judging from all I know about him which is the above partial article. Most of us are horrified here of what might happen should there be a shooting war, and NO, we don't want one.

Has anyone seen the internet Iranian/Israeli posters flying around n Faceboook? I don't have FB, bu GF does and they are really wonderful.. I'll ask her to give me the link.

I am well aware how bandying about "antisemite" is used for anyone who doesn't agree with the extremist right in Israel. I have known antisemiitism, and disagreeing with the U.S. and Israel''s government polices on this issue, ain't it.
BTW, there is a demonstration here this weekend against any war with Iran, and I dearly hope it will be well attended by not-just-one-kind of Israeli.

    Bookmark   March 21, 2012 at 8:33AM
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I didn't see that thread...that is very wrong to carelessly use that term. I have never seen that from Ink. Anti-war is the term I would use.

John Stewart did a funny bit on this recently..."Hebrew Nationalist"

Here is a link that might be useful: In Israel you are allowed to criticize Israel

    Bookmark   March 21, 2012 at 8:52AM
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marshallz10(z9-10 CA)

They must be the tax-paying job creators unless in the Rabbinical class.

    Bookmark   March 21, 2012 at 9:05AM
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I saw this article that discusses the "Iranian/Israeli posters flying around n Faceboook"

I think that's just wonderful.


    Bookmark   March 21, 2012 at 9:59AM
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marshallz10(z9-10 CA)


    Bookmark   March 21, 2012 at 10:09AM
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Yup, that's the one!

    Bookmark   March 21, 2012 at 2:25PM
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    Bookmark   March 21, 2012 at 2:38PM
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Wow, what started as a grumble ends with happy faces-wonderful, Hay.

    Bookmark   March 21, 2012 at 4:26PM
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Way to go Hay...... :)

    Bookmark   March 21, 2012 at 4:46PM
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paulines(New England)

I was going to ignore ink's nonsense (a close relative of "nuisance"), but have chosen to respond. As many here didn't read the pertinent thread, I don't feel what ink has represented is totally accurate or complete. Here is his OP:

"...a tooth for a tooth a notion of retaliation that Israel interprets as: you send some rockets over that are a nuisance even though nobody gets hurt and so in return we send hi tech weaponry over in the middle of the night and kill 20 or more people and injure a few more. Seems only fair doncha think."

I in fact, specifically requested of Nancy NOT to muddle the issue of politics vs people. And in my mind, this thread of ink's wasn't about Israeli politics, just about people whose deaths and daily trauma was trivilalized and minimized by his use of the word "nuisance".

Here was my response:

"If you are going to take my words, take them correctly ink. There's nothing worse than an anti-semite who can't read.

And yes, anyone who characterizes suicide bombers and rocket attacks as a "nuisance" is not normal. Here's another "nuisance":

"On December 26, 2008 a mortar aimed at Israel killed two Palestinian girls in the Gaza Strip, aged 5 and 12." Wiki"

I stand by my post that ANYONE who characterizes these types of actions against any group of innocent people as a "nuisance", either is heartless or a hater.

    Bookmark   March 21, 2012 at 7:56PM
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marshallz10(z9-10 CA)

meanie! We need to get a poster for paulines.

    Bookmark   March 21, 2012 at 8:04PM
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paulines(New England)

'FBI Most Wanted' maybe, Marshall?

    Bookmark   March 21, 2012 at 8:10PM
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Speaking out against Israeli policy is all it takes these days to bring the charge of anti-semitism. Which, as has been pointed out, diminishes the charge to nothingness. Actual anti-semites will have be given a new descriptor. In fact they have been, hence the popularity of the term 'neo-nazi'.

    Bookmark   March 21, 2012 at 8:36PM
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