Where do you folks get your water soluble fertilizer? Any place I have found the shipping is almost as much as the fertilizer.
Not sure how much you are looking for, but most garden centers/feed stores carry all types of soluable fertilizer. We use a mix of fish & seaweed for foliar spray which is available everywhere. We are organic growers so do use chemicals.
Farm co-ops, they can set you up, even with bulk organic fertilizer.
I get mine through cisco, there's an amish place called e&r in Monroe indiana where you can get it here too. if you're wholesale any greenhouse supply place can get it for you. if you have local greenhouses, ask them what they'd charge you for a bag or two, or amish people who have greenhouses.
We have an Amish community nearby also, and I vouch that if you ask, they can get almost anything for you. Including knowledge, if you ask nice enough.
Fertrell has some of the best organic/natural fertilizers sold in the USA and they have dealers all over the eastern US. check their website to find a dealer near you who can order fertilizers by the pallet load and there should be no shipping and handling costs
Here is a link that might be useful: Fertrell Company
Part of the reason shipping is so high on fertiliser is it's an oxidant and bags of commercial brands have a hazardous material surcharge tacked on top. When I get my growing supplies in for spring, I make sure to either put the fertilisers on the order to come in the broker's truck or have my feed store order it in on one of their trucks so that shipping or surcharges are reflected on the price.
You don't say where you are in Michigan, but there are lots of hard goods and greenhouse supply firms and warehouses there. If you are a legitimate farm or growing enterprise with tax exempt status, you may find it cost effective to find one like that and make a trip to their warehouse to pick up a season's supplies all at once, or hopefully find your locality within one of those firm's delivery routes. Then order everything in one lump. It's a heck of a lot more cost effective than UPS or Fed Ex.
Ive been slowly converting to a more sustainable, if not totaly organic, farm. I realy like the organic pesticides, like bt, rotenone, and pyrethrin. I find small home garden amounts localy, in various concoctions and brand names, but I am having a hard time finding bulk quantities, enough for several acres. Any advice or references.
Josh, check out the fertrell link. I would stick with sustainable farm, not organic. Unless you have been through the certification process or have taken all the biodynamic agriculture courses you are likely not really organic. I remember when I thought I was organic but going through the process of organic certification let me know that organic was a whole lot more than using organic 'cide. You also have to have a fertility plan, among other things.
Josh, there is a fertrell dealer within the Amish community at Rockville. His name is Sam Zook, and he has a greenhouse outside of Turkey Run SP, I think the greenhouse's name is Country Corner Greenhouse. I know he would be willing toorder anything along that line for you. Of course, you would need to be able to pick it up. They do have delivery available, but it is expensive.
Chester - You have to pick it up at the warehouse unless you buy by the 18-wheeler load. We buy from a greenhouse supply company and pick-up one big load a year. We use Peters 20-10-20 and Yara calcium nitrate, applied through the irrigation system.
thanks I found 2 dealers, both within 20 miles of my farm
What's a "sustainable farm"? - how does it differ from organic? Seems like the two terms are used interchangeably and I always thought they meant the same thing.
I see in the SE Farm Press this morning that the Dept of Ag is going to build free hoop houses for small farmers to encourage local vegetable production. The Obama administration is pretty "green" and I expect a lot of organic-type initiatives in the future - and tougher regulation of industrial ag!
To be 'officially' organic, you need to be certified. there is an exception if you sell less than $5,000 in total farm sales, plus alot of other details. I don't claim to be organic, but I do try to help mother nature take care of my farm. I do use some commercial fertilizer and a bit of 'roundup' generic, so I would not qualify as organic grower.
To me, sustainable is not overloading the ground with non-natural items. More like letting nature guide you without you determining what nature WILL DO for you.
For some reasons a number of my posts have not been up-loaded!
PS: There is an alternative to certified organic. It's called Certified Naturally Grown. Less paperwork and cheaper. However, the only way to be tested is by other CNG growers in your area that come to your place. Could be easy to mislead if you are not honest with them and more importantly to your customers. Just be honest and you'll be OK. We are not certified yet and always tell people we are pesticide/chemical free.
I'm glad to hear that some of your posts have not been uploaded either, I thought it was just me.
I thought about the Certified Naturally Grown way, but I just haven't really made the time to get signed up with them. I would have to change somethings, I know.
I have very few customers that want 'totally' organically grown produce. A couple of them have under gone chemo and they have to be more careful. I take special care to be sure they are not exposed to anything that may have come in to contact with some type of chemicals. They know what they need to stay away from, and I know what chemicals have been used. It works for us.
I used to get my farm certified organic but dropped the certification in 2001 when the USDA took over. So now I call my farm sustainable or and "eco-farm" to get the point across I farm organically but cannot use the term organic in any form in any of my marketing including my farm name.
this means when people ask if my farm is organic i say no it is not certified organic so we cnnot call our food organic but we were certified through OEFFA for around 8 years and still grow using organic methods. i will also say that for several years before I went through the organic certification process I would claim to be organic but after i went through 3 years of transition and another 5 certified organic I found I did not know much at all about how a well managed organic farm is run. Now I do and it is a lot more than simply avoiding some inputs and/or switching to OMRI approved inputs. There is a lot of paperwork (and this is true of CNG, as well) and a lot to learn about looking at one's farm ecology in a wholistic way and learning how to achieve balance on your farm. And of course the most important thing on an organic farm is soil. Nothing else comes close in importance.
So all that said i rarely trust anyone who is either not currently certified organic or has been in the past to be able to back up their organic claims. I do know a couple of never been certified farmers who really are organic because they worked with me and another farmer who has been certified organic since 1979 and really knows his stuff and is a good mentor. But most of the never been certified crowd who claim organic simply do not know enough to make that claim. And too many say "yeah, I'm mostly organic but I do use some 'cides"-that is like saying I am a bit pregnant. Either you are organic or you are not, there is no middle ground here.
I know I'm not organic since there are some herbicides that I use. I label my produce as 'pesticide free' which they are. We have a butterfly farm just up the road and I'm sure the owner would not want my farm to kill her butterflies. Plus her butterflies are pollinated some of my produce and all they ask is for the milkweed plants that grow well on my farm. I leave them especially for the monarchs.
My first 2 years at my farmers booth, there was a neighboring farmer that stated "I'm organic, all I use in Severin". I thought, boy you have NO idea what organic is. Lucky they're not at market any longer.
Im looking at going strictly organic pesticide, one reason is that when I last used chemical (in 07) I got real sick, no proof it was the chemical except gut feeling and the fact it was the last thing I did, spraying some systemic insecticide for bag worms on a windbreak, I got nausea, tightness in the chest, dizzy, and shortness of breath. Got me to thinking and I recalled the other times I sprayed, they were not as bad , but each time got worse. It was a wakeup call, if I was getting this way, what was I doing to my kids who play out there, how about my community. The guys down at the co op thought I was being paranoid, (I think they just dont want to lose a sell) and they said youll have to spray more often. But when I looked back over my notes I noticed some isects like corn borers were seeming to develop a resistance. And anyhow the stuff persist in the enviroment I learned that it can find its way into our well water.
Then I noticed the rotenone quickely knocked down everybug it touched, and if you wait and tolerate just a touch of damage you can wipe out a huge population of insects which seem to dent the breeding population and reduces insect damage to an acceptable level. Bt is great for corn earworm when you wait till just at silking to spray. I keep notes and for the last two seasons I have liked what Ive seen, I havent been sick, I just keep careful watch on the crops, read and follow lables, and keep notes to see what works. Ive seen other products, some made from sucrose, lemons, oh last season I tried pyrethrums on my beans and liked the results it had on the beatles.
Has anyone used any of the other products and if so what were your impressions.
rotenone if you are not very careful (wear a protective suit and breathing apparatus and do not let your kids near it or you until after you have washed) causes Parkinsons disease.
before going organic with your insect control you must learn about how organic farm managers control insects or else you will not be effective.
I suggest looking at the Rodale site and learning something about getting a farm in balance. there is a lot more to organic pest control than simply switching insecticides from synthetic to natural. To be successful you will have to look at your fertility plan (literally soil building and keeping the soil life happy and healthy), crop rotation and many other aspects. in other words you either go organic or not, half @ssed measures never work.
I think it is great you want to go organic but please research this because it is a lot more complex than most people imagine and if you do not do this correctly it will not work and will cost you time and money. But if you do it correctly it will save you time and make you money
Here is a link that might be useful: Rodale institute
Josh, you must have been either extremely careless with the chemical and inhaled it or maybe somehow ingested it off your hands or something like that. I guess there are are people, though, who have allergies and hyper-sensitivities who should never use any sort of chemical - agricultural, household or otherwise.
Marla, It's not possible to "let nature guide you without you determining what nature WILL DO for you."
Agriculture is all about tinkering with nature to get it to DO for you. If one wants to be really "natural", he simply gathers plants that God grows for him. Farming is "unnatural" by it's very nature, Marla. As Josh said on another thread, God provided us with tools and we should use them.
Why is it "natural" to extract bacillus thuringiensis bacteria from an artificial growing medium and spray them on your garden, but "unnatural" to extract nitrogen from the air and feed your plants with it?
Most of the world's most toxic poisons, of course, are organic and completly "natural". So those terms don't mean "safe" or "healthy." Petroleum deposits buried deep in the earth for eons are just as "natural" and "organic" as a chrysanthemum root dug-up yesterday - and either can make you very ill if used improperly.
Soil is "sustainable" forever if it's regularly fumigated to kill undesirable organisms -and all the nutrients that a plant needs can be provided economically and efficiently with chemicals. In fact, we don't even need soil to grow plants! I certainly don't see how letting soil get infested with viral, bacterial and fungal diseases could be considered "sustainable". We don't tolerate those organisms in our bodies, so why should we tolerate them in the soil we use to nourish those bodies?
But we have to give the customers what they want. This society is so wealthy that it can afford to be "green" - we want to enjoy all the benefits of modern technology without any of the downsides. Everything has a downside, though - cell phones cause brain cancer if you use them too much and pesticide can make Bro Josh sick if he breathes it or drinks it! LOL
What really blows my mind is the fact that we accept and applaud every kind of unnatural (some would say "unholy") sort of technology when it comes to medical science, complete with many life-threatening downsides and side effects, but when it comes to food production we insist on using 19th century technologies. We eat antibiotics and synthesized drugs like peanuts but refuse to eat a can of genetically-modified corn!
If the greens get their way and that 59 cent can of corn suddenly costs ten bucks, I think we'll see a lot of those green folks turn red with anger.
Those 59 cent can of corn are over $1 in this area now.
Maybe I should have said, safe instead of natural. I try not to put anything excessive on my garden. Nor do I try to excessively remove the nutrients in my ground. I have several acres that been 'laid fallow' for over 10 years. It is an area that was too small for the larger tractors to access.
I wish I had enough flat land (I have enough land, it's just too hilly to plant) to leave 10 acres fallow for a few years. I'm getting very close to either fumigating or going out of the vegetable business - nematodes, leaf spot, etc -and I'll have to hire pros to do that. Very expensive.
Well half ass or not I can not give up my herbicide program, I would go out of buisness, I am using more plastic and less herbicide, but my corn cannot be planted on plastic, neither my beans. Its easy enough to hoe and such on an acre or less, but you plant a couple acres of corn and a couple acres of beans. I grow 40 acres of popcorn in the river bottoms and there is no way I am going to try to hand weed that. I like pre emergents better than rounup ready because so many weeds are roundup (glyphosphate) resistant now. After my crop is harvested in fall I spray for weeds, disc the ground and plant a cover crop or as I call it a smother crop, this not only suppresses weeds but adds organic matter to my soil. If the crop survives winter I spray it to kill it in spring and do a chisel plow to bury it. Then I plant my corn or beans, then I cultivate until the crop is several inches tall then apply pre emergent and cultivate it in. So I reckon I just want to shy from commercialy chemical pesticide.
I do soil build, I rotate crops, fallow ground, and field compost, I also use cover crops, like winter wheat , or brasicas. I compost huge amounts of manure and bedding, I also have REMC tree chippers (working in non sprayed forest right of ways) deliver loads of chips to compost, I wanted to mulch with this, though there is tons there still isnt enough so it is more valuable as a carbon ingredient for the compost. I bring home bedding from stables, and turkey farms. (bet my neighbors love that LOL) I also get the dead turkeys to compost, and a hog finish farm a few miles away has a compost facility for the dead and they let me haul it for nothing. My soils are black as coal and full of night crawlers and worms, my boys love it and are always digging them up to go fishing, my soils are easy to work and dig, I do not see the harm that herbicides cause, though since my last commercial pesticide spray 2 years ago dung beetles have made a come back, and I do see lots more bees. So what Im suggesting is if a person can , just replace more harmful and longer lastin pesticides for less. Also I would not qualify organic because Im all for using altered and pest resistant varieties of plants, this year Im going to use Bt sweet corn. I want to be sustainable, thats what I believe in, my property is considered a model property here, for its a working farm, with a large viable quail population, a game bird whose populations have been in decline nation wide. So I feel Im on the right track.
I also raise cattle, with management intensive rotational grazing, which limits the amount of time the cattle are on any given piece of ground, while at the same time increasing the carring capacity of the farm by 50 percent, I also do mixed species grazing, cattle, goats, and poultry, all of which balance the pasture and utilize it to its fullest potential and reducing species specific parasites and insects period with the poultry.
Josh, your place sounds great. I know that there is alot of sand country down there. What type of pre-emergence do you use? I'm looking into more weed control. I DON"T want to use pesticides, unless we get hit really hard with something like army worms.
Jack, most of my ground is wooded, so I only have a few small areas that are fallow. Like I said, too small for the larger tractors to get into. Plus, we moved into one of the smaller fields in 1999, which made it too small to farm conventional with my farmer's tractors. Big Beasts, they are.
I haven't tried to fence any areas off for cattle, and I really don't like pigs. The chickens are at my sons place (it adjoins mine, he's got 9 acres).
Josh - Have you ever watched that "Dirty Jobs" show on the Discovery Channel? Why dontcha call them up and tell them you have the ultimate, all time, world series of dirty jobs - hauling partially composted dead pigs! Since that's just about the grossest thing I've ever heard in my 74 years LOL I'll betcha dollars to donuts that guy comes out to your place and films a segment on that - and you'll be famous! I'll be watchin' to see you on TV.
We'll see about the pesticides when you get a massive aphid infestation and about to lose a 20 grand crop. :-)
Jack, I don't know about Josh's farm, but I haven't had an aphid infestations yet. Just lucky, maybe. I haven't used any pesticides for over 10 years now.
Jack Good idea
Ive had a few aphids, not huge infestations, but I know from experience that south where Jack is the insect problems are ridiculous. Years of mono-cropping cotton, and warm weather almost year round, when it gets cold it dont last long enough to make a big influence with pest.
Cut worms, ear worms, and those pesky bugs that eat beans.
are real problems here, as well as Jap beetles.
Yeah, that's right Josh. I was just gonna explain to Marla that it depends on where you live. I tried organic gardening once, years ago, and was real determined to make it work. It's a looooong, sad story LOL, but suffice it to say it didn't work out! We have insects here you wouldn't believe - like the Texas leafcutter ant, which will completely strip all the foliage off an acre of okra in a single night. And our aphids are just unreal - they come every year in in masses that would make Moses proud and soften Pharoah's heart! LOL If we aren't willing to spray aphids we might as well not plant anything because it would just be a waste of time.
Let me tell you about the time I bought $200 worth of live ladybugs that were supposed to eat aphids. When the huge colonies of aphids appeared, I released the ladybugs and they all flew away. So I called the guy that sold them and complained. He said not to worry - they flew off to mate and next year there will be more than enough ladybugs to devour all my aphids. So I kissed that okra crop goodbye and replanted the next spring. The aphids arrived on time, but I didn't see more than a few ladybugs eating them at first - but within a couple of weeks they showed-up in force and made a serious dent in the aphids. Problem was, by the time they showed-up the okra was already belly-up! So All I had to show for two years of hard work and expense was a bunch of *(&^%#@ obese ladybugs!!!!
Needless to say, the following year they all got doused with Malathion - ladybugs and all - and we had some okra to put-up!
Yes, Jack, as much as I don't like to cold. It's needed to kill off some of those bugs.
I lived in FL for 8 years, and 1 year they had the Med Fruit Fly. Long story, short, the entire area was sprayed with Malathion, tress, people and whatever else that was outside where the helicopters could release the spray on.
The governemtn said that if you see a copter, take cover for several minutes after the copter was spotted or get sprayed also. That really got me started thinking about all the pesticides that are used.
I realize that some areas, some times, need to use pesticides. But I had a fellow vendor that carried bug spray when she picked green beans. It something flew out the the plants when she was picking, she just sprayed. It did matter what type of bug it was, just spray and kill it.
All right , Marla I think that lady was serious LOL, sounds like my mom, if it moves killit :O)
My wife and mother say the only good bug is a dead bug
me Im a little more tolerant, if there were no bugs what would my bluegills eat hahaha
Oh, she was. Then she complained when she 'rented' a hive of bees and they died.
BLUEGILLS!!! Or, more correctly -LOL- BREAM!
Now yer talkin'. This is big bass fishin' country but I love to fly fish for bream. Ain't nuthin' like a big ol' bull bream smashing a popping bug at dusk on a hot summer evening! One pounders are common around here and I caught one many years ago that weighed 2#4oz on a neighbor's pond. He's hanging on my wall.
We have nearly all the various sunfish species - red ear, goggle-eye. green sunfish, red-breasted and, of course, both black and white crappie. There are literally thousands of farm ponds and private lakes in our county (mine is 4 acres). It's an anglers' paradise. I have taken bass on the fly rod up to 11#!
Josh people can and do 100's of acres of organic corn and beans with no herbicides. You do have to go and pull weeds on ocassion and you have to know how to cover crop in the off season to keep weeds down during the growing season and you do have to cultivate early and often. And there are organic herbicides now, too
I love it when people such as Jack say organic does not work because they tried going organic for an entire season. Know that organic is a lot more complicated that using chemicals and it takes about 10 years of organic management to get competent at growing this way. And if you used a lot of chemicals it takes up to 15 years to get your soil back into shape for growing without chemicals
I have been growing organically on 5 acres of mixed produce for over 15 years. I know lots and lots of people who do grains, livestock, produce organically on farms ranging from an acre to 1000 acres.
I wish I had a dollar for every time I have been told you can't do organic... people who tell me this simply have no idea what organic farm management is about. It is good that the USDA NOP does make it illegal to use the term organic unless you are certified and the real deal otherwise a lot more people would be ripped off at farmers markets. etc..
You guys should check out ATTRA, SARE and the Rodale institute site before you write off organic. A lot of information about how to mange a farm that way on those sites.
Actually, I was organic for about 12 years - I got hooked on it from Rodale's Organic Gardening Magazine in the seventies and began to garden organically (on a 2000 sq ft home garden)in 1983 and stayed with it until the mid-nineties. I swallowed Rodale's propaganda hook line and sinker and was totally dedicated - I mean compost and all!
Never have I worked so hard for so little reward. It wasn't about producing vegetables. Rather, it was all about a certain political ideology. I alienated my friends and neighbors with my constant preaching and holier-than-thou attitide, produced very few edible vegetables and was socially isolated in my home town. I finally woke-up and realized I was in a secular cult. I felt victimized, apologized to my neighbors and they patiently deprogrammed me from my cultist ideology.
But I know all organic people aren't like that Rodale crowd - I still have all their books on my shelf. When I read them now the stuff they say is so absurd it makes me laugh. ("Don't trap or poison gophers - encourage barn owls").
Except for a little bt with a soap chaser on holidays, I have been sober for 15 years now. :-)
I grow organically and I don't feel like I am unrewarded because of it.
There certainly are rewards in doing something the old-fashioned way - and the idea of Man living in harmony with nature is a beautiful concept. That's the way God wanted it to be, but we blew it big time in the Garden of Eden and now we have to live with the consequences.
I fish with a fly rod and make my own lures out of deer hair, which is an ancient technology and infinitely more difficult and challenging than fishing with modern tackle. My fishing companions always out-fish me badly with their modern plastic lures - but my single bass taken on a fly that I tied myself is worth more to me than their big stringers of fish - but if I had to depend on the fish to feed my family, it would be a different story.
Modern industrial agriculture, and all the cheap food it produces, makes it possible for us to make choices like that. We have achieved a level of affluence tht allows us the luxury of indulging our idealism - whether it be organic gardening or flyfishing. We have paid a big environmental price for the conveniences we enjoy and it's understandble that we long for the natural world our grandfathers knew - but we can't reverse the clock and, if you'll excuse the cliche, neither can we have our cake and eat it too.
It all depends on one's goals and the rewards he seeks. There is a lot of satisfaction in growing a single perfect tomato without chemicals, to be sure. And there are folks out there who are willing to pay big bucks for that tomato. But if one needs a big harvest of unblemished, marketable tomatoes with a minimum of labor costs, he had better avail himself of modern plant science and ag technologies. Different strokes for different folks, as they say.
I understand that different areas of our world have different challenges. I also realize that bugs can be bugs or BUGS. As I have said previously, while I don't like the cold it is necessary to help control the bugs.
I tried the organic way for a few years, and discovered that, in my situation, it was not worth the extra effort for ablosutely no extra money. My market's customers are not willing to pay anything extra for organic, even after realizing that organic certification costs the farm to be certified. Plus I barely have enough time to work the farm, let alone all the paperwork involved with the certification process each year.
In my opinion, anyone that wants to go 'organic' has alot of work ahead of them. But for me, without a tractor only a walk behind tiller, and farming 2+ acres of assorted veggies, it was not worth it.
I farm for a living, but I also farm as 'safe' to humans as possible.
I also try to be as safe as possible. My first line of defense is resistant and GM cultivars. When an insecticide is necessary, I always use the least toxic chemical that will do the job - often Thuricide or Spinosad, both organic, whenever possible. My next step up is Permethrin, which is synthesized pyrethrin with very low toxicity. Only in very serious situations - usually aphids and harvester ants - do I resort to Bifenthrin, and then only if I am at least twice the label days from harvest.
I trust the people at TXA&M University - most of whom are Phd's and highly qualified experts. We trust medical, financial and other professionals, so why should we not trust our ag professionals?
The preemergent herbicides we have do not present any direct threat to human health in any way. They are all unregistered chems and carry a mere "Caution" warning on the label - which basically means "don't let children eat it."
The organic ban on chemical fertilizers make absolutely no sense, as far as I can see anyway. They aren't toxic or dangerous or anything! You are much more likely to get sick from dead pigs or cow poop than Triple 13 or Miracle-Gro!
Hey , what about my dead pigs and cow poo, theyre cheaper :o ) LOL
Yeah your right, if they are not handled properly, properly composted to kill pathogens and they must be worked in during fall to allow to age before planting, just like chemicals you have to watch your ps and Qs
Brother Josh says:
"Hey , what about my dead pigs and cow poo, theyre cheaper :o ) LOL"
You ain't no ideological idealist like them other guys! Yer just a plain ol' cheapskate! LOL
Tell me how you fish for bluegill. Are they in your own pond? Do you feed them? Have you ever used a popper and flyrod?
How do you trap an otter - they used to be a major problem here. They made it impossible to raise catfish for the market. I don't see them much anymore - Good Riddance!
I have my own pond, about an acre, and being a cheapskate I dont feedem, they have to eat bugs and minners :0)
I have some nice bream, aint heardem called that in years, been back in yankee land too long I guess LOL
some of my gills weigh moren 1 pound, eating size um good
also have some decent channel cat. My neighbor has a 5 acre lake and has it stocked with blue cats, and I swear theyre breeding in there, CO says it cause its spring fed with a current other wise they dont breed in lakes. And some of those blues are crossing with the channels, or he just has ugly flat headed channel cats hmmm
Otters are a newly reintroduced species in IN and are protected, so no experience trapping them, I hear you trapem like beave, 220 or 330 conibears, set on slides, on dams, in underwater channels etc..
Never used a fly rod, just a light weight baitcaster, with tiny spinners, poppers, or good ole night crawlers.
Marla Im sorry I never answered your question on pre emergence herbicide, my preference is Devinrol
Otters cost me a lot of money over the years. I never could get the state trapper over here. They are protected by federal law only in TX (I may be out-of-date though)
but they didn't need any protection because they're just about impossible to shoot. They dart that little head in and out so fast you can't get a bead on it. Indiana is making a BIG mistake restocking those things!
I tried raising channel cats stocked directly in the lake with an autofeeder, but the bass, otters and cormorants made short work of that. Then I tried raising them in floating cages - worked for everything but otters. They opened the lid and went right into the cage - honest!
Then in the nineties I leased exclusive fishing privileges on my lake to two wealthy Houston doctors for a nice little chunk of easy cash every month. They bought 1500 full-grown (15-18 inches)bass from a fish farm up in Okla and had them trucked down. Then they bought a tankerload of live crawfish from a rice farmer and dumped those in. Several otters immediately began feeding on the stupid hatchery bass and, especially, the crawfish. The doctors were upset and demanded action. I explained I wasn't much of a hunter, don't have a good rifle with a scope and couldn't hit a barn door even if I did, let alone an otter, so they sent a professional sharpshooter up from Houston to try and kill them with one of those long-range .225 target rifles but he couldn't hit them - he only got one shot a day because they leave and don't return for 24 hours. He stayed a week in a motel in town and built a blind on the dam and everything. I called the state trapper and begged for help every night but I didn't happen to know him personally and the jerk was always "too busy" to help me.
Anyway, the otters wiped-out the bass, the doctors got mad and cancelled the lease and I was out 500 bucks a month! The day after I got the bad news, I was walking along the lake bank carrying a .12ga when I saw an ^&%$# otter sitting on a log eating a bass on the far bank. I muttered words a christian shouldn't say and, knowing it was way too far for #6 bird shot, I shot at him anyway out of sheer anger and frustration. The pellets sprayed harmlessly across the water, of course, and the otter slid off the log, leaving the partially eaten bass lying there. Within a few seconds, a little black paw sneaked out of the water and pulled the dead fish of the log and into the lake - so he could finish his lunch in peace!
Good luck with your otters. Tell your Parks and Wildlife Dept that they're nuts! :-) Some day I'll tell you about those Nutria rats that they imported from South America to control aquatic vegetation. They have done millions of dollars in property damage (undermining levees and causing wash-outs in the rice fields). Speaking of "nuts", the feds once stocked "endangered" Canebreak rattlesnakes in the woods adjacent to my property. I told our local warden that they were "endangered" on my place all right! He laughed and said he didn't make the rules.
Man Jack, up until 2008 otter pelts were worth between $250-$400 apiece, the Chinese couldnt get enough, Then the Dahli Lama reprimanded them for killing innocent creatures, then the economic deal, and now your lucky to get $25. I think the IDNR was hoping those high prices would stick and IN could get some of that money, but they should know from the $75 raccoons of the 70s that it would not last.
My friend if it wasnt for the 2 day drive Id come and trap them out for ya, the only problem is that shortly they would return, same as the beaver and coyotes here, I reduce em one year and the next theres more.
Deer are my main nemisis here. The state is real protective of them to, we honestly have deer densities of 25 or more per square mile. Auto insurance companies are campaigning for reductions, so the state increases the price of a deer tag, then they limit the # of bucks to be taken, then they offer bonus doe tags, at cost. Is it me or is that counter productive to the goal. The deer reek havoc on crops, I only manage by encouraging my hounds to chase them. Most hunters who hunt for food are of modest income, and if they dont own land they cant hunt because they can buy meat cheaper than they can hunt it, which during a pressed season is a gamble. The people who do hunt only want a trophy, does are what needs killed. So I have to go through red tape and butt kissing to the game warden to get depredation permits to remove a couple dozen deer off my place. I try to give some permits to lower income familys, so as to put meat on the table. It is easier to tag the deer in the summer anyhow. And those folks dont mind shooting a doe and her fawns too LOL.
OH its the kings deer says Robin of Locksley
AKA Robin Hood
It was always legal in Texas to kill a deer eating your crop. You had to let him lie there, though, and call the Warden to p/u the carcass and, supposedly, give it to the needy. The warden never came to p/u dead deer when we called, though, so we just always shot them and usually butchered them in the cooler months.
But the deer hunters have got the legislature to change all that. It's almost impossible for a small land owner to get a depredation permit nowadays, and if you get caught killing one you're in serious trouble! It's not the tree huggers so much as rich hunters from Houston and Dallas on their huge hunting clubs leased from timber companies - they don't want us to kill "their" deer that they feed and encourage. They feed corn and also plant acres of oats, soybeans and greens to FEED their deer - so the deer look for tender crops to eat instad of foraging on brush and weeds.
These deer aren't wild animals anymore and should be treated as livestock. Personally, I think the hunting leases and the timber companies should be responsible for the damage their deer do and fence their leases. They say the deer all belong to the State of Texas - Baloney! They're just private livestock that run wild and do damage. We are close to the Big Thicket National Preserve and the govt needs to put a big fence around that too and keep their *&^%$ varmints - like otters - off private property! Pathers (cougars) are making a comeback. I've seen two of them (or the same one twice) and one killed a dog here several years ago (cat print way to big for a bobcat and the dog's whole hind quarter was tore off by sheer force - I heard the dogs take-off barking at 4:00 AM and I heard the hissing sound of a cat - thought they were just after a bobcat until morning when I found the dead dog). Maybe they'll kill some of these deer.
Thankfully, more and more leases are erecting 10 foot mesh/web deer fences - cost: $50K per mile.
We lost two acres of peas to deer last year. they came right through our mickey mouse electric fence. So a retired volunteer from church came over here and built a world-class electric deer fence around all the cultivated areas - 8 ft high, with 10 high-tensile 12 ga wires and two Parmax top-of-the line 50 mile 18K volt chargers, each with 4 6' copper ground rods. The wires are alternate hot and ground, with ground wires also connected back to the charger terminal - so it doesn't depend on the animal being grounded. Believe me, touching a hot and ground wire at the same time will not only knock you on your fanny, it will literaly burn your skin! I've never seen a fence with that much kick!
But we still have the crows! They usually devour at least half our tomatoes - every one they can reach - and we can't grow watermelons at all anymore. There are a lot more crows than there used to be because they are, believe it or not, "protected" now. The dogs used to help with crows, but they've all been burned by the electric fence and won't go near the gardens, even through the gates. There's a hot wire six inches above the ground for coons and rabbits.
I used bird scare tape last year for my melons and it worked pretty good.
Protected crows, what next, protected rats. At least were free in Indiana to kill crows caught in the act of damaging property, which is good, cause crows are smart, you just have to blast a couple and the rest steer clear for easier pickings.
Mountain lions, could be a good thing, in California theyre known for thinning the herd on all kinds of varmits, hahaha
ok bad joke, they may be good or bad, depends if they like domestic livestock, but from what Ive heard (Indiana only has bobcats,which are virtualy useles, they dont hurt anything, but dont provide anything either) from what Ive heard is if there are lots of deer theyll spend their time eating them. Sorry deer hunters.
Like I said though, dont kill the kings deer.
We had a really good dog that would 'take out' any deer that came into the garden during garden time. During the winter, he would let them alone. I don't know how he knew, but he did. Unfortunately, he died a few years ago. It took 2 years for the rabbits to realize that he wasn't around. Now, I think they got online and told every other rabbit in the state that the farm was 'safe' for them. Deers are still staying out of the gardens during season, maybe it's the human scent since we walk the gardens 3-4 times per week.
We may not have as many deers this year, alot of people are hunting for the freezer. We actually gave permission for the first time in over 20 years. Poor guy has seen some, but hasn't got one yet and I think the season is almost over. He was hoping for 3-4 to keep in the freezer, he has been out of work for 2 years now.
Randy - What kind of tape is that? Where do I buy some? We don't grow melons anymore but it might work to save some of our tomatoes. One thing that helps is hanging a dead crow nearby - occasionally a crow encounters some misfortune and passes away.:-). Sometimes they are very accident-prone and several die mysteriously.
All the years I've lived in the country and been around gardening I've never learned how to pick a ripe watermelon - no use to tell me how 'cause I've been told a million times LOL - just never mastered it. That's the reason I don't grow them.
Mine never ripened uniformly like they do on the big WM farms down around Laredo. There's a line of workers across the field passing melons like a bucket brigade to a truck moving along slowly. They don't thump 'em or check the little curly cue or nuthin - they don't even look at 'em! They just load 'em up and haul 'em north. If I knew the variety that ripens all at the same time like that, I'd plant them again. Just plug one melon and if it's ripe go for it!
There used to be a guy here who went down to Laredo every spring with a big trailer. He'd slip the guy supervising the mexican pickers a hundred dollar bill and each picker a ten spot, drive his truck out into the field and the boys would load it for him. Then he sold them on the hwy here as home-grown! Yeah, right! In April/May?? How dumb can people get
It's legal to bait and feed deer in Texas. They not only plant stuff for them to eat, they have electric feeders that drop corn several time a day. Then they put a a "deer stand" (a little building on legs) nearby and when the deer comes to eat corn they shoot it. That's not hunting - it's just harvesting farm animals!
the bird scare tape is this mylar stuff that comes in rolls. its like 1/4" wide and the rolls are like 500'. It flashes in the wind (even a slight breeze) and makes noise. if you google it you'll find a lot of suppliers.
Good way to go to prison in IN, you get caught hunting over bait and the CO s coming for you.
But its perfectly legal to feed deer, so during summer the hunters plant crops, and feed deer. Increasing fawn rates to triplets and quads, yeah, NOT.
Your crows are accident prone, so are our deer :0)
The east side of my place borders on a 20 square miles tract of Louisiana Pacific Corp timber land. We used to have free run over there, including riding our horses, hunting/fishing privileges (several lakes) - even let our hogs graze over there when I was a kid, but now it's a high-dollar hunting lease that's patrolled 24/7. They watch us local folks like a hawk!! They even have a chopper.
Last year I made the mistake of telling one of their henchmen (thugs with a .357 Mag on one hip and a cell on the other to call their pals at Parks and Wildlife) that their *&^% pet deer were devastating my peas - DUMB,DUMB, DUMB! After that they had me under constant surveillance and I had no choice but watch their stupid, fat, tame, overfed farm deer eat my ALL my peas - and I literally mean ALL.
I spent evenings visiting shady, underground websites that sell night vision scopes, laser beam sights and muzzle silencers (couldn't find any shoulder-fired grenade launchers that take down choppers, though. LOL). But I ain't cut-out to be no Rambo and I don't wanna to spend what's left of my life in the slammer, so I forked over a few grand and built a good fence instead. :-) They have the law on their side.
Thanks for the responses about my fertilizer question. I have found a local amish guy that will sell to me for a reasonable price. However I was wondering what fishing, otters and deer and everything else in this thread have to do with fertilizer?
Nothing, Chester. We discussed fertilizer for awhile, and you weren't around, so the thread just naturally wandered to other things - like always happens when a bunch of folks sit around a campfire chewing the fat. After all, that's mostly what all internet forums are - bull sessions, with entertainment equally, if not more, important than information. You'll notice though that it rarely wanders away from gardening in general.
It's not possible to keep discussion threads narrowly focused on topic, regardless of the forum. (For that matter, it's pretty darn hard to keep a business meeting focused). But if the author monitors the thread daily and brings it back on topic with additional questions and comments, he/she can get more in-depth information on the topic. But when one abandons the thread, participants feel free to talk about other gardening matters.
Just human nature, Chester. If the campfire conversation is football when you leave briefly to relieve yourself, they'll be talking about cooking spaghetti sauce when you get back! Ain't that how it is?
Did we answer your question regarding supply sources for liquid fertilizer?
otter, deer, fish, rabbits, coon, all make good fertilizer
Pray for those poor people in Haiti, Bro Josh.
The difference between organic and sustainable is that a sustainable farm tries to make a full circle (grow grains for organic material and feed, put manure and straw back into the soil.) But, in practice it doesn't work as a closed loop. You have to at least use some gasoline for the equipment. Ideally you wouldn't take any produce off of the land and put back your own urine and manure...they do this in China. But that's also called sustainable living (as in, just enough to sustain your body). I'd prefer to live large.
I try to do sustainable agriculture on our farm...I grow organic and have for 12 years because that's what works best in our climate. Spraying just makes more bugs here and the only market here is for organic produce.
We use owls to keep the birds away. Plastic ones with swivel heads. Works great.
Ive been playing around for a few years now with using horses to do some of the work on my farm. They amazingly can do a lot, it helps that I have an Amish community nearby to help in getting horse drawn equipment, or convert some. But horses dont have front end loaders :0)
But those that know me enough by now know that I usaly have other motives for doing things that seem overtly organic or sustainable. What realy pushed me towards horses besides and old interest is when fuel reached near 5 bucks a gallon, and off road diesel was near 4 dollars, it got me to calculating how much fuel is burnt just tinkering around, and since Ive learnt that with an abundance of forage, horses saved me money in fuel and hours on my tractors.
But come harvest horses are great, mine dont need to have you driving, you pull em up by the pumpkin patch or sweet corn patch, they follow ya up the rows, just a cluck every now and then, they happily munch on leaves and weeds, (an occasional ear of corn LOL Taxes or wages) all we do is load the wagon, and they pull, when done they take ya back to the house.
y follow ya up the rows, just a cluck every now and then, they happily munch on leaves and weeds, (an occasional ear of corn LOL Taxes or wages)
and you say they don't have front-end loaders. LOL!
Not quite the front end loader I was thinking of, but, twoshay :0)
Work Horses? Good Grief! You can't possibly be serious, Josh! That sure brings back some miserable childhood memories that I've tried to forget.
Where I live is just about as backward, illiterate and impoverished as you can find anywhere in this country but nobody has regressed to plowing with a horse - at least not yet! Horses are pets - expensive play things for rich people (and sects that oppose human progress) - and that's all they're good for. Mules, which I remember well, are loathsome creatures lol. I'm not old enough to remember using a team of draft horses to skid logs out of the woods - but I'll betcha dollars to donuts that a diesel skidder, which uses 100 gals in an 8 hr shift, is still a whole lot more cost effective than maintaing a team of draft horses (if you could even find any - I think they're extinct, except for Budweiser's beautiful Clydesdales).
Diesel would have to get a lot higher than $5 before I'd resort to fighting a plow behind a ^%$#@ mule! I'd rather starve! :-)
I agree with chester5731, most of the conversation in these recent threads don't have anything to do with original post. When ones wants to follow the thread you have to scroll through conversations on fishing, religion, politics, etc. to find a response that has to do with the OP. A bit of conversation is natural , but it should not take over the entire post. That whats the 'Kitchen Table'& 'Conversations' Forums are for. Almost 20 of the posts had nothing to do with the original post. While it's true that a lot of us develope 'friendships' on these forums, we should try to keep the post on topic, if the post evolves into something else, it should still be about growing and marketing.
Not sure how much you are looking for, but most garden centers/feed stores carry all types of soluable fertilizer. We use a mix of fish & seaweed for foliar spray which is available everywhere. We are organic growers so do use chemicals
I get mine through cisco, there's an amish place called e&r in Monroe indiana where you can get it here too. if you're wholesale any greenhouse supply place can get it for you. if you have local greenhouses, ask them what they'd charge you for a bag or two, or amish people who have greenhouses.
Fertrell has some of the best organic/natural fertilizers sold in the USA and they have dealers all over the eastern US. check their website to find a dealer near you who can order fertilizers by the pallet load and there should be no shipping and handling costs
and still off topic.
Who is the Moderator of GW. If GW had editing, could the original poster delete off topic material? GW could also use Spell check.
I use liquid fertilizer in the greenhouse only. One gallon last me the whole season. I just buy it local. Alaska Fish fertilizer must of the time.
If GW wanted to, or any forum, they could rigidly enforce rules that prohibited off topic posts. They don't do that because their forum would be so incredibly boring that nobody would participate - and there goes their advertising revenues.
All the serious info-seeker has to do is glance briefly at each post - the first sentence tells him/her if it's of interest to him or not. How long does it take to scroll down through conversations? Most of the time, all the info is in the first few posts and the rest is just BS anyway. I have never seen a forum where every thread stays on topic all the time. It only gets off-topic when the author walks away from it. Authors don't "own" the thread - they just start the conversation. The author can bring the thread back on topic anyime he chooses simply by making a topic-related post.
The irrevevant conversation doesn't hurt a thing, but the moderator can stop it any time he wants - and kill his forum as a result.
Jack, Amen brother, and what crap they advertize.
I second that motion,
By the way Jack who said anything about plowing with horses :0)
How longgg would that take me, hmmmmm total of 48 acres, and the only horse drawn plow I own is that one bottom walk behind jobby with the broken handle in the middle of the wifes flower bed uhhhhhhhhhh LOL
No, I use them to haul firewood, pick up square bales of hay, harvest crops, they basicaly do a lot of wagon pulling. Also I do some mowing down the sides of the drive way (quarter mile) with a rotary mower, the pull a hay rake, and the manure spreader.
yeah brother , and amen and bro this, but what does that have to do with market gardening? Yeah maybe they can 'kill it', but is that the point? Granted, I have only been on this forum for 1yr. as a poster, but I lurked for many years.When I decided I was going to get into market gardening then I decided to seek the advice of others here. I have found a wealth of info & advice here, many of which I feel 'friends' with. It just seems to me that you all should be e-mailing each other and leavin this all of the foru. It has nothing to do with OP. Period.
The point that chester & myself had to make was that the repeated post had nothing to do with the OP, but your own conversations. So, please out of respect for the OP and others who are looking for real responses, and not your life history(although , I admit, are interesting)please put it on the correct forum. I know I am not the only one who feels that your hijacking of these post are a bit out of line. Like I mentioned, there are other conversational forums, please use them. We come here looking for help and experience and guidence.
gardner1908 I just looked back through the postings to make sure I remembered correctly all the topics, if you are serious about market gardening you would find 90 percent of what has been posted to be valuable knowledge. The conversations on deer, crows, raccoons, are about pest that you will encounter if you are gardening for any length of time, and the experiences and the frustrations we share are things you can learn from. Granted we go off on a rabbitt trail or tyrade which is a way of blowing off steam about the frustrations we have with a society that values wildlife numbers more than the food supply we farmers try to supply. Im a full time farmer and have been for more than 10 years, and Ive tinkered in organics, but Im a sustainable farmer, and I am happy to answer any questions you have, just ask. The bit I posted about horses is me sharing a approach Ive been working on in an effort to be more sustainable, and reduce my carbon footprint. There is nuggets of pertinent information in the vast majority of the post. Most of your experienced farmers are country folk, and we dont share info the way a college proffesor does, to learn things from a country person you have to listen even through thier stories. Id be more than happy to answer any question you have, please ask, and if we get off topic, ask another question, I myself am just an old country boy and my attention span is short, and if folks quit asking or replying, well Jack, another good ole boy, and I will start BSing. But if you ask or reply, well be happy to answer. Wed like to be friends, we dont need to be adversaries.
Draft horses are very usable as a 'fertilizer' factory. Some very valuable liquid fertilizer, by making manure tea. It's been used for years.
Also I have checked out using a neighbors horses to drag timber logs out of the woods. They don't have to have as straight run as some skidders need. Plus they are easier to move to the other end of log if need be, without damaging trees not ready to harvest.
I DON'T have horses, I don't feel that I have adequate pasturing or buildings for the animals.
As far as topics, maybe we need to be more specific when we title them.
I am a moderator at another forum, and we are not needed to keep the topic on topic. Our jobs are to keep profanity and improper references from causing trouble within the forum.
Well, lets keep it going and see if we can hit 100. I do use the horses the spread their own fertilizer and that of the beef cows. They also get used for a few other chores. I like not supporting the oil industry.
Anyone ever make manure tea? Just wondering what kind of setup it would take. I have read about this thinking I might like to try it but never have.
An easy way to make manure tea is to take a large barrel, 40 or 55 gallons, fill about 1/4 of finished compost, then fill the rest with water, leave sitting in sun for a couple days.
Another way is use a compost tumbler, fill with raw products to make compost. As the stuff breaks down there will be juices, put a bucket under to catch these fluids, mix equal parts with water.
chester5731, good to hear from you.
My brother and I have made many batches of compost tea. We have a 25 gallon brewer. This 25 gallons becomes 200 to 250 gallons of soil drench or foliar spray.
Basic parts are. 30 gallon conical bottomed tank, oiless blower, aerator- bubbler. Misc plumbing parts.
I'll go over and tank pictures later.
Recipes are made up of combinations of compost and mollasses.
Brewing usually takes about 24Hrs.
Eric, it will be interesting to see pictures. What is the mollasses for? Do you put it on everything?
Think of the mollasses like adding sugar to yeast. The mollases feeds beneficial microorganisms.
See link below. Gives an overview of a small batch system and recipe.
Here is a link that might be useful: Compost tea
Eric, that is quite the apparatus. I am going to be gone for a bit, but I will check it out closer asap. Thanks for posting the pictures.
Eric you sure you aint making moonshine with that set up LOL :0)
Ive read about making compost tea in that fashion. Eric if you wouldnt mind, could you give me the added benifits of making it this way verses the easy lasy way Ive done before, what makes this way better. If it is better, then from what I see It would be a snap to ramp it up to a few thousand gallons wouldnt it? Then one could apply it through a fertigation system, if filtered, does filtering harm the potency of the fertilizer? Do you start with finished compost ?
I look forward to your reply; cause I find this intriuging.
Josh, it's like making beer. Here is our beer brewing setup.
Two propane burners are missing in the photo. They slide into the metal table.
Wait a minute! Josh, your leading me off topic. LOL
Systems can always be enlarged. Larger tanks, larger blowers. You would have to calculate water colunm- water pressure for proper blower. Someone like Dan-Stanley may have to chime in on this one.
This is a living culture. It needs to be used almost immediatley after brewing. I need to do a little more research. I believe the more you run it through pumps, filters, etc the less beneficial it becomes. This is my brother, the landscaper, operation. His head is full of this stuff Check out the slide show below. Maybe it will help
Here is a link that might be useful: Compost Tea Slide show
I wish GW had editing. Dan Staley is the proper member name.
manure tea is easier than you guys are showing. Just fill a burlap bag with it and hang it in a barrel. In the sun makes it 'brew' faster, but not really needed. I know 1 greehouse OWNER that his mother used this method, and he's close to 80 years old. You can do the math as far as his mother's age. I know she's been gone for over 30 years. I think his dad used it when this greenhouse owner was a child. Back in the days that NOTHING went to waste.
Marla did you look at his slide show, all theyre doing is taking or compost tea and kicking it up a notch. It looks promising.
Eric it looks as though you you built yours yourself, do yo have the basic plans, can you e-mail them to me, as your slide wants to sell the kits, but looks easy enough to build.
True, you could just steap a burlap bag of manure in a barrel of water, but it's not the same outcome.
Here is a link that might be useful: What are the benefits of aerated compost teas vs classic teas
Josh, Here are the basic parts. My brother is off Island. I will ask him Thursday where he bought the parts
http://www.watertanks.com/category/246/ (30 gallon)
http://www.spencerturbine.com/files/downloads/417%20Vortex%20Regenerative%20Blowers.pdf (Spencer Blower)
I'll try to get part numbers for you and scratch out a design.
Thanks Eric, I realy appreciate it
Eric, I also would appreciate any help you could privede in builing a "still". Do you use any other fertilizer? Also I was wondering, can you apply too much tea? My other thought was to apply it through the drip tape. I have an injector that holds three gallons that will mix at ratios from 100:1 to 1000:1. Even at 100:1 it seems you could almost continually feed the plants with it.
My thoughts exactly chester
Here's a bunch more photos
The unit is made up of basic 1 1/2" schedule 40 pvc. and black ABS pipe. Easy to layout after you buy the blower, 30 gallon conical bottom tank, and bubbler. The frame is 2x2's and plywood. The brass Y with valves is a bleeder. It bleeds off some of the air from the blower. Basically a throttle. We attach a garden hose as a silencer. Muffler
We apply the compost tea through a simple 12 volt pump and a 100ft of 3/4 garden hose. I need to do some research on filters, fertilizer injectors, emmiters etc... I'm thinking the more you handle the live culture the more harm you are doing to it.
Maybe we could spray it with a boom sprayer
Maybe we could spray it with a boom sprayer, the tank has a bubbler, maybe this would be more hospitable.
Eric, do you just spray it out the end of the hose on the plants, or do you put on a sprinkler? How much do you have invested in the whole setup? I guess I need to get started making compost. How do you think rotted horse or cow manure would work?
You asked earlier what other fertilizers I use. I use Hendrikus Schraven Organics and Azomite. Both are probably to expensive for large operations.
We use a water wand in the green house and a ball valve in the nursery and orchard. Ball valve can be throttled. Mostly closed it sprays fine particulates to wide open soil drench.
Also have to mention. We use well water. City water has chlorine, fluorine etc.. not good for the micro-herd.
I'd have to talk to my brother about that. He's back on Island now. I'll go pick his brain.
Here is a link that might be useful: Compost tea sprayer
Eric, thanks for all the useful info. I will be using well water also, so that should not be an issue. Does anyone have an idea for a pump in a 55 gallon drum?
Need a little more information. Is this an aeration tank?, spray tank? If this is for a tea brewer, I recommend a food grade plastic drum.
Sorry, it is for a tea brewer. The barrels I get are from a dairy farm. They had iodine in them and they rinse out real well. I also use them for cattle and horse waterers.
Chester, Josh and others.
I have one more piece of information. Keep It Simple Inc. Is where the diffuser was purchased.
Here is what they say,
Diffusers; As of January 2009, I am using only, machine slotted PVC diffusers which I designed and get cut at a machine shop. Many of you will know that I wanted to stop using the glass bonded stone type diffusers because the muriatic acid used to clean them is not environmentally friendly. Via research over the winter I succeeded, by altering the depth of the slots and lengthening the large diffuser, in improving the PVC diffusers so as to match the dissolved oxygen maintenance of the glass bonded diffusers. The slots are 254 microns in width
We design our unit based on their kits.
Also good information
What is Compost Tea?
Applying Your Compost Tea
See link below
Here is a link that might be useful: Compost Tea Systems
Take a look at this kit. It has some specs. for you.
Here is a link that might be useful: 50 gallon system
Ok now to the drawing board, better get the Tylenol, always get a headache when I think
hmmmmmmmmm think think think
I like the looks of the Keep It Simple 50 gallon kit, but it sure is pricey. With a little head scratching I think I can come up with something cheaper.
Yes, Probably. It doesn't need to be steel and powder coated. You should be able to get the Specs for Tank, Pump and bubbler, from their site.