Men With Loaded Rifles Intimidate Moms At Gun Safety Rally

WxDano(5b-2a-6/7)March 29, 2013

Men With Loaded Rifles Intimidate Moms Gathered At Gun Safety Rally
By Igor Volsky on Mar 28, 2013 at 5:36 pm Several men with assault rifles and hand guns crashed a MayorâÂÂs Against Illegal Guns National Day to Demand Action event in Indianapolis, Indiana on Thursday and stood silently as the state chapter of Moms Demand Action held a rally in favor of limiting the availability of military style weapons and universal background checks.

At least two or three men showed up at the rally site before the event began and engaged in a discussion about gun regulations with the group, two participants in the action told ThinkProgress. The armed men �" who were later joined by another man carrying a hand gun and a woman who runs Indiana Moms Against Gun Control �" insisted that they had a right to carry the loaded weapons...

A member of Moms Demand Action said that she felt unsettled by their presence and said that the organizers would have to think twice before holding another event, particularly one where children could be present.

I'm sure you can guess the rest - you know the drill. Mission Accomplished!

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rob333

I'm glad they did. For one reason and one reason only. They probably shot themselves in the foot to find favor in the right to "bear" their arms. What they did is going to have the opposite effect than they desire. And if a child saw it, I hope it left an idelible burning want to avoid being like them. They meant to be intimidating. If they got what they wanted, they injured that side of the argument.

    Bookmark   March 29, 2013 at 10:51AM
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esh_ga

I agree, some of these folks absolutely sabotage their own message.

    Bookmark   March 29, 2013 at 11:01AM
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ann_t

They should have been charged with something and their weapons taken away from them. Permanently!!!

~Ann

    Bookmark   March 29, 2013 at 11:08AM
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rob333

so what would you have charged them with Wx?

    Bookmark   March 29, 2013 at 11:15AM
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WxDano(5b-2a-6/7)

so what would you have charged them with Wx?

I can't speak to the local ordinances to say there is something to formally charge them with.

But in general, they can be charged with intimidation and boorishness. And I agree they aren't helping themselves, but they can't help themselves. That is the best they can do.

Sunshine: the best disinfectant.

    Bookmark   March 29, 2013 at 11:28AM
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lily316(z5PA)

Could you charge them with boorishness AND stupidity?

    Bookmark   March 29, 2013 at 11:41AM
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rob333

compare it to your local ordinances Wx. Seriously. I'm sure you know.

Stupidity? Nah, that can't happen or everyone could get charged at one time or another.

    Bookmark   March 29, 2013 at 11:55AM
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ann_t

Rob, just wondering is it really legal for anyone to wander around carrying loaded Rifles and guns in public places?

I would think there would be something they could be charged with.

~Ann

    Bookmark   March 29, 2013 at 12:28PM
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rob333

Nothing to do if they have permits and if their state allows it. Responsible people do not brandish them. Only idiots do that.

Here is a link that might be useful: Open Carry in the US

    Bookmark   March 29, 2013 at 12:40PM
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jodik_gw

As Bill once said, to paraphrase, you'd never know those people who carry permitted concealed... it's not something one flashes around or advertises.

Only idiots wave guns around. What would be the purpose? To what end?

    Bookmark   March 29, 2013 at 12:48PM
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rob333

I knew Bill was just like my brother. I was giving you what he would say. I don't own a gun. But he's the owner and a decorated military marksman. With a conceal permit. This is the mainstream thought with responsible people Ann. Not the nutcases.

    Bookmark   March 29, 2013 at 12:52PM
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momj47(7A)

Did their poor judgement come with the guns or were they born that way?

Do people like that understand that even their allies must be dismayed by their actions. Clearly, it was meant to threaten the people who have opposing views. It makes no sense to behave like that if you want people to consider your point.

No accounting for twisted logic, I guess.

    Bookmark   March 29, 2013 at 1:01PM
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ann_t

Doesn't sound like these guns were concealed. So waving about a "concealed" weapon even with a permit is allowed? I would think there would be something they could be charged with.

~Ann

    Bookmark   March 29, 2013 at 1:05PM
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mylab123(z5NW)

In the short term the stupid grandstanding and boorishness might not seem to be causing any harm and those opposed to any real gun reform laws might even see these behaviors and the NRA stands as powerful and positive.

But people and positions they support do change over time. Just ask the vast majority of people in this nation how they felt about gays in the military in the 90's and how they feel today. In the 90's it was a big hairy deal. Today it is a non- issue, both with the majority of the public and with the majority of soldiers.

I say, let the goons (NRA included) say and do their best. I am confident that in time the corrections needed WILL take place with full public support, and through public demand.

There will be more most shocking mass slaughter and individual shootings will continue. The NRA and those who angrily oppose any self sacrifice of REAL value will keep reacting the same way - and because of that, the majority opinion will continue to evolve just as it always does. Of this, I am confident.

Im just so sorry for the sacrifices of the innocents that will have to take place in order for the right thing to happen. But, that too is often necessary before public opinion changes in order for the right changes to take place.

    Bookmark   March 29, 2013 at 1:18PM
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duluthinbloomz4

In robb's Wikipedia link: while open carry may be legal in such jurisdictions per se, persons openly carrying firearms may be detained and cited by law enforcement officials for disorderly conduct or disturbing the peace in certain locations and circumstances where openly carrying could cause public alarm.

Coupled with intimidation is the "showing off" factor - defined in this context as seeking to attract attention by conspicuous behavior.

    Bookmark   March 29, 2013 at 1:20PM
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jomuir(z5 detroit)

'Rob, just wondering is it really legal for anyone to wander around carrying loaded Rifles and guns in public places?
I would think there would be something they could be charged with.~Ann'

Ann, being Canadian you may not be familiar with our laws regarding guns in America. it's perfectly legal in most areas here to openly carry weapons. We had a young man carry (really he paraded himself) a large long gun in a tony Detroit suburb who the police demanded ID from. He declined to provide it & was arrested. After a long court battle, the citizen won & his ticket was thrown out. It may be distasteful but it's like our free speech, we hold it dear & even when we disagree it's a basic right we defend. I compare it to the hillsboro church of nuttiness, awful people operating in a completely legal manner.

I agree it can be seen as intimidating but is quite legal. Maybe not in Canada but we're talking about America in this case.

    Bookmark   March 29, 2013 at 1:38PM
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ann_t

"....it's perfectly legal in most areas here to openly carry weapons."

How scary is that.

    Bookmark   March 29, 2013 at 1:48PM
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WxDano(5b-2a-6/7)

Not too long ago, just after Sandy Hook, two young male geniuses walked around a neighborhood in Portland with their manhood extensions rifles.

Some moms called the cops who couldn't do anything because it was permitted. Freaked out the neighborhood for a couple of days.

Nevertheless, this particular incident in the OP was clearly intimidation.

Sunlight: best disinfectant.

    Bookmark   March 29, 2013 at 2:35PM
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jodik_gw

Not one of these conversations ever seems to touch on the realities of responsible gun ownership.

The media highlights an incident, perpetrated by someone who would be termed a criminal or a dumb____, and everyone is off to the races...

I shall no longer join the race. It's tedious, and I'm tired.

    Bookmark   March 29, 2013 at 2:37PM
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fouquieria(10b)

Not one of these conversations ever seems to touch on the realities of responsible gun ownership.

I don't agree jodik. The NRA has consistently fought (for decades) what I consider common sense, responsible approaches to gun ownership...things like background checks, HUGE magazine clips, insurance requirements, etc. If one can't even touch simple, responsible acts like these...then we can't even even take the first steps. The NRA is an extremist organization, in my opinion.

-Ron-

    Bookmark   March 29, 2013 at 4:37PM
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WxDano(5b-2a-6/7)

Another thing you don't see, Ron and Jodi, is any gun group expressing dismay at this blatant intimidation. These incidents are enlightening and civil society should know about them.

Whether the discussion here or on other comment boards gets sidetracked by NRA apologists or other minority segments of society is secondary to the issue outlined in the OP.

    Bookmark   March 29, 2013 at 4:48PM
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sleeplessinftwayne(z4-5 IND)

Not one of these gun toters offered any aggression. No one responding above even knows if the guns were loaded.

I used to live within a mile of a gun shop. There were people bringing in their weapons for repair or buying stuff all the time. There was never a problem.

My neighbor hunted deer on his property but very carefully not to aim in the direction of our house. The deer always came to our property which was very annoying to him since he couldn't shoot them there. He gave up after the third year and went into the woods and fallow fields after that.

After a deer ran into the side of my car, I really wished I had a gun to put the poor thing out of it's misery. Deer and car collisions were commonplace. I started carrying a Buck knife in the trunk (in a lock box or it would have been illegal). I never had to use it but it was a comfort even if it was more dangerous to use than a gun.

The only time I worried about hunters around us was when the woods were full of city folks who only handled a gun once a year in hunting season.

The very few murders there in twenty years did not have a gun involved. A friend of mine in Madison was shot and killed by a woman who wanted my friend (a straight married woman) to have an affair with her. The killer was deemed crazy and is still in an institution. The gun had been stolen. My friend had a restraining order against her which was why the crazy woman shot her.

People who deliberately shoot innocents are almost always crazy. Mass killings are always done by crazies. Criminals don't register their guns. Does that mean anything to any of you? How come I don't see any proposed laws about stopping crazy people from harming others?Why do they get a free shot?

I am more scared of an unarmed crazy than I am of normal people with a gun.

    Bookmark   March 29, 2013 at 5:09PM
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WxDano(5b-2a-6/7)

Not one of these gun toters offered any aggression. No one responding above even knows if the guns were loaded.

Immaterial.

And it is incorrect to assert the respondents upthread don't know if they were loaded: The armed men ...insisted that they had a right to carry the loaded weapons...

A member of Moms Demand Action said that she felt unsettled by their presence

Mission Accomplished!

..................................

    Bookmark   March 29, 2013 at 5:42PM
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lily316(z5PA)

And you know the mental health of the gun toters...how? If they intimated the moms, they should have gone. I guess they were compensating for what little manhood they actually have.

    Bookmark   March 29, 2013 at 6:12PM
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david52 Zone 6

And so somebody calls in to 911 and says there's a shooter at that address, and here come the cops, trained to take out the bad guy, ASAP. Maybe for fun, a car backfires, or someone throws some firecrackers.

Thats one of the lessons learned at Columbine - as soon as you hear there's a shooter, get there and engage, don't wait for backup.

    Bookmark   March 29, 2013 at 7:29PM
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youngquinn_gw

deleted orginal post as I put it on the wrong thread.

This post was edited by youngquinn on Fri, Mar 29, 13 at 20:41

    Bookmark   March 29, 2013 at 8:32PM
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marquest(z5 PA)

Thats one of the lessons learned at Columbine - as soon as you hear there's a shooter, get there and engage, don't wait for backup.

There you go. After the police officers were killed in my area last year as soon as you call 911 now they ask do you know if they have guns on the property. All you have to say is your neighbor has guns.

There have been a few justifiable shooting by the police the last two years. The police now have the right to come in guns blazing now because they know gun are on the property. If you want your neighbor dead call 911 and tell them you know your neighbor has guns. Heck he even brags about his guns.

We have laws and the police can justifiably blow you away because you have a gun.

    Bookmark   March 29, 2013 at 9:24PM
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elvis

Although I strongly feel that showing up at an anti-gun event with firearms was rude, childish, and just plain stupid, I also think the reporting and some of the rhetoric here is irresponsible.

    Bookmark   March 29, 2013 at 10:32PM
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shaxhome

Kind of reminds me of this, and on Fox News, of all places...

"Two men seen walking down a Portland street armed with assault rifles told police they were exercising their Second Amendment rights and hoping to educate the public on gun rights.

Several calls were made to 911 on Wednesday afternoon, with alarmed residents reporting two men with guns strapped to their backs walking through the area of Southeast Seventh Avenue and Spokane Street in Portland's Sellwood neighborhood.

When police arrived on the scene, they found two 22-year-old men carrying rifles openly on their backs. The two were also holding valid concealed handgun licenses in Oregon, according to Fox affiliate KPTV.

The men reportedly told officers that they were seeking to educate onlookers about their Second Amendment rights.

"Exercising my rights with a rifle to try to decrease the demonizing of peacefully exercising your rights in public," one of the men, who declined to release his full name, told the station."

Here is a link that might be useful: Proving Their Point

    Bookmark   March 30, 2013 at 12:20AM
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elvis

That would certainly cause me to do a double take. So does coming across a(n armed) hunter in my woods; especially the part about telling him he is trespassing.

Guess you gotta trust people sometimes.

I also worry about all the other drivers on the freeway when I need to use a freeway. What if they crash into me?

I don't touch the magazines in the doctor's waiting room in case a contagious disease was left on the material (likely in a doctor's office) What if I catch something?

I guess the people in the photo are pretty "in your face".

    Bookmark   March 30, 2013 at 12:56AM
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alexrander

I think I've figured the whole thing out.

Just get a bunch of photos in the press of black guys is berets walking around various towns and cities with rifles and by George, the old white men in Congress will probably pass a law against it.

    Bookmark   March 30, 2013 at 2:41AM
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dublinbay z6 (KS)

Yipes--you make a sharp point, alex.

I think a bunch of those guys, armed to the teeth, hanging around the doors to the voting polls might work also.

Kate

    Bookmark   March 30, 2013 at 9:39AM
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marquest(z5 PA)

alexr, that would probably do the trick.

Yes Kate those black men at the voting booth has been legendary. Imagine how effective that would be if 2 or more black men had a couple of assault weapons walking around town.

If history is any indication this gun rights is going to get ugly. If you look back on all the "rights fights" they have all gotten ugly before they were settled.

    Bookmark   March 30, 2013 at 10:06AM
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elvis

Alex: "Just get a bunch of photos in the press of black guys is berets walking around various towns and cities with rifles and by George, the old white men in Congress will probably pass a law against it."

Kate: "I think a bunch of those guys, armed to the teeth, hanging around the doors to the voting polls might work also."

So you find armed black men more intimidating than armed white men. And you think that other white people (besides yourselves), i.e., "the old white men in Congress", feel that way too. Interesting. There's probably some sort of sensitivity training that can help you with that, if you want to get over it. Or you can hang onto the fear. Seriously.

So you two see "white people" and "not white people" instead of just "people".

You are, of course entitled to your opinions.

BTW, the median age in Congress is 53. I don't consider that "old".

    Bookmark   March 30, 2013 at 10:08AM
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ohiomom

Alex and Kate ... thank you, I am trying to imagine two young black males walking through downtown Cleveland (like the picture above), it doesn't take any stretch of the imagination to know what would happen.

Just got back from my walk, and glad I did not encounter two men like the Einsteins above ... course they and the ones who showed up at the meeting are actually doing more harm to their "cause" than good.

    Bookmark   March 30, 2013 at 10:10AM
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dublinbay z6 (KS)

I'd like to point out that I referred to guys with guns--I didn't specify which race, because race wasn't my major point--it was guys armed with guns hanging around voting places.

On the other hand, I didn't exclude some guys of certain races hanging around voting places--since a couple black guys wearing berets and standing by a voting place certainly had a lot of white voters upset. Just imagine what berets and assault rifles would do to that scenario--whether black or non-black guys.

Kate

    Bookmark   March 30, 2013 at 10:21AM
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marquest(z5 PA)

Kate I know you did not mention race but it jogged my memory when the conservatives during the election bring up that black men stand around the voting places. Tremble and shake unarmed black men just standing around at the voting places,

It was implied just their very presence without guns and rifles hanging from their shoulders was freighting/intimidating.

    Bookmark   March 30, 2013 at 10:40AM
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nancy_in_venice_ca Sunset 24 z10

So you find armed black men more intimidating than armed white men

Try doing some reading about public reaction - including that of law enforceement - when armed Black Panthers appeared on the scene in Oakland / Sacramento. Then do some reading about public reaction to the Klan - armed white men - and their ability to live within their community without fear.

    Bookmark   March 30, 2013 at 10:54AM
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elvis

Kate: "I'd like to point out that I referred to guys with guns--I didn't specify which race, because race wasn't my major point--it was guys armed with guns hanging around voting places."

Sure you did, Kate.

Alex at 2:41: "Just get a bunch of photos in the press of black guys is berets walking around various towns and cities with rifles..."

Post directly following Alex's post of 2:41 - Kate at 9:39: "Yipes--you make a sharp point, alex.
I think a bunch of those guys, armed to the teeth, hanging around the doors to the voting polls might work also. "

In the tradition of nitpicking here on HT, I am compelled to say that IMO this doesn't ring true: "I didn't specify which race, because race wasn't my major point..."

If race wasn't your major point, you detracted from your major point by injecting race into your statement. Which you did in your response to Alex.

I'm not going to belabor the point; just sayin'.

    Bookmark   March 30, 2013 at 10:57AM
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WxDano(5b-2a-6/7)

I agree that Faux hyperventilated and ran a crawler 24/7 when large African-American males with firearms stood by a polling place. Last election season, Faux made a big deal about a large African-American male lurking near a polling place.

Therefore it is reasonable to presume that Faux Nation and NASCAR Nation would freak out if large African-American males with firearms walked around. That would be an excellent way to get some gun control legislation passed.

Sadly I don't know any large African-American males with firearms that are brave enough to walk around, because the chances are they would be shot and killed, and the shooter would not be prosecuted.

    Bookmark   March 30, 2013 at 11:10AM
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david52 Zone 6

Sadly I don't know any large African-American males with firearms that are brave 'stupid' enough to walk around, because the chances are they would be shot and killed, and the shooter would not be prosecuted.

FIFY

    Bookmark   March 30, 2013 at 11:26AM
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WxDano(5b-2a-6/7)

;o)

"Some men have been thought brave because they were afraid to run away." -- Thomas Fuller

    Bookmark   March 30, 2013 at 11:51AM
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dublinbay z6 (KS)

elvis, the obvious response to your "correction" is that I was NOT responding just to Alex's post. You simply assumed (incorrectly) that I was responding to Alex's post , and only Alex's post, because my post came after Alex's.

I was, in truth, responding to a number of previous posts--the subject in general--and I deliberately left off a race designation because I didn't want my statement limited only to the racial situation, although I had no intention of excluding race completely from the category either. My statement was intended to be about gender, not about race.

That was the truth, and I resent highly you proclaiming that I am lying about it. I do not lie and I do not appreciate being blamed for YOUR MISTAKE in reading sequence as cause and effect. That is one of the logical fallacies you committed there. It is NOT a lie I committed.

Kate

    Bookmark   March 30, 2013 at 3:22PM
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elvis

Kate: " I resent highly you proclaiming that I am lying about it"

Kate, that would be a personal insult. I wouldn't presume to do that, probably even in person, let alone on the internet. Perhaps you would look into the definition of the phrase "doesn't ring true". Maybe you'll chill out.

If the problem is that you won't tolerate being contradicted, well...you're in for a lot of stress in your life.

    Bookmark   March 30, 2013 at 4:22PM
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fouquieria(10b)

One of the men who walked with assault rifles through downtown Gresham and Southeast Portland Wednesday has an extensive history with Medford police over his practice of openly carrying a rifle in parks, in businesses and other public places.

Medford police have received at least 67 complaints about Warren R. Drouin openly carrying a semi-auto rifle or handgun in a wide range of public settings between June 2011 and December 2012, according to agency records. One episode generated more than two dozens calls to police. At least one Medford business barred him from the property because of his behavior.

The 22-year-old Medford man is so familiar to police in the southern Oregon city that top officials in the 103-member police force refer to him simply as "Warren" when describing their interactions with him. Officers receive training specifically on how to approach Drouin and others in the so-called open carry movement, which promotes the ability to openly carry guns.

"I'm actually a gun right activist," he tells one Medford officer, in a video uploaded on Aug. 25, 2011. "I believe in our rights, and I want to educate every person about our rights."

Drouin, on his Facebook page, says he was home schooled and offers the following description, which contains spelling errors: "I am a full flesh libertarian and a gun right extremest. We the people should control our government and bring us back to when we had and own our Life, Liberty, and Property. I hate socialist, dictators, and corrupt Government. We are losing are rights every day while not knowing it and then it become to late."

-Ron-

    Bookmark   March 30, 2013 at 5:41PM
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pnbrown

I wonder if making a minimum score on an IQ test a requirement for gun ownership would reduce accidental gun deaths?

    Bookmark   March 30, 2013 at 5:59PM
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duluthinbloomz4

Points for spelling your name right - if using more than the "X".

    Bookmark   March 30, 2013 at 6:27PM
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david52 Zone 6

Now there's a Poster Boy for home schooling.

    Bookmark   March 30, 2013 at 6:43PM
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fouquieria(10b)

I wonder if making a minimum score on an IQ test a requirement for gun ownership would reduce accidental gun deaths?

Now don't get me started on "low-effort" thinking.

-Ron-

    Bookmark   March 30, 2013 at 6:47PM
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duluthinbloomz4

You don't want to wander off into the realm of the "intellectually lazy"?

    Bookmark   March 30, 2013 at 6:55PM
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alexrander

Yes, the Black Panthers! Nancy gets it. They roamed free with rifles in full view in Oakland and other locals (including Cleveland)in the 60's.
(snip)
" The Black Panther Party's most widely known programs were its armed citizens' patrols to evaluate behavior of police officers and its Free Breakfast for Children program."
----------------------------------------------------------
Come on Elvis, I'm just having some fun at all the bigots expense..., I admired these people- but I know J.Edgar Hoover considered them a threat. -10,000 members by the late 1960's- 10,000 beautiful black Americans with guns walking the neighborhoods- what could be more American? All's right with the world.

But maybe the same effect could be had if we armed the immigrant population from Mexico and points south with bandoliers across their shoulders so that they looked like Panco Villa!

Anyway, I can just picture it. Just google images of the Black Panthers, or Pancho Villa and you can picture it too!

Here is a link that might be useful: wiki- black panthers.

    Bookmark   March 30, 2013 at 7:18PM
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mylab123(z5NW)

Alexr, you make very interesting posts, Im glad you joined the forum.

    Bookmark   March 31, 2013 at 2:48AM
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pnbrown

The gun thing is a bit like money:

We generally agree that the gov can print money but you and I can't, and for that reason the money system works (more or less). We generally agree that certain authorized persons (police) can walk around openly with a gun, and you and I can't, and for that reason law and order prevails. More or less.

    Bookmark   March 31, 2013 at 7:10AM
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esh_ga

Good point, pnbrown!

    Bookmark   March 31, 2013 at 8:21AM
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fancifowl(5Pa)

high test scores has worked good in the ghettos huh. But then most of those gun deaths are probably not accidental.

    Bookmark   March 31, 2013 at 12:05PM
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Embothrium(USDA 8 Sunset 5 WA)

The existence of racial profiling and preference is not a secret or a falsehood. Due to the influence of culture, even black people living in western societies may indicate a preference for the appearance of whites when responding to organized queries.

Recently when leaving Costco I noticed that people were tending to go to the white guy to have their receipts checked, instead of the black employee who dresses and comes across like Mr Rogers. At the moment I came on the scene there were multiple people backed up in front of the white checker and absolutely nobody in front of the black guy. Ordinarily somebody darts or even cuts in if one of the lines is at all shorter.

This post was edited by bboy on Sun, Mar 31, 13 at 12:38

    Bookmark   March 31, 2013 at 12:35PM
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jodik_gw

Aside from open carry, Ron... has the man in question committed any crimes involving his firearms? Just curious.

    Bookmark   March 31, 2013 at 1:17PM
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mylab123(z5NW)

Lets assume he hasn't, - because its probably darn safe to assume that is the correct assumption.
But...what would pretty much *everyone's* reaction be should tomorrow he suddenly open fire, killing people before he was stopped or ran out of ammo?

What would be the number one complaint about the tragedy be?

That the police, the family, people close to him - even strangers who read about him or spotted him continually armed in public should have been able to predict that by his behavior - and, but only for law enforcement intervention, those deaths ( or perhaps instead, by luck, merely many gunshot injuries) could/should have been prevented?

My guess would be that this would be the logical conclusion by the vast majority of citizens in this country, including those who wish for no stricter gun control rulings. Because the outcry would be about logical common sense approach that was not able to be utilized.
Such an event would only push truly logical gun control ( not outlaw) reform rulings ever closer to fruition.

Instead of gun owners tackling this issue themselves in such a way that the vast majority can find reasonable support for, the country will eventually have to tackle this issue for themselves. What a pity, it all could be so different with anger and fear diffused over time by enthusiastic gun owners themselves. Instead they, too, bind themselves with anger and fear and thus, will be the biggest losers when all is said and done.
And yet, it is they who could have controlled this whole issue with an approach of logic, compassion and a willingness for some personal sacrifice *of value* in order to gain more than I figure they will end up with, because they just couldn't or wouldn't do themselves.

Gun control reform of value wont happen tomorrow - but its going to happen.

The people who are currently doing all the sacrificing by injury or loss of loved ones for that amendment are going to stand up and cry ever louder, " Enough! Your turn to do some sacrificing - by gun control reform we can feel!"
And the country will cry out with them, finally forcing change of great value that they can agree to.

My opinion.

    Bookmark   March 31, 2013 at 10:14PM
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fancifowl(5Pa)

things is, the entire constitution is goin down the tubes. By the time the 2nd is caput, the whole ball of wax is gonna melt. The great experiment is on a down hill slide.

    Bookmark   March 31, 2013 at 11:13PM
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mylab123(z5NW)

Who says the 2nd has to be kaput anymore than free speech has gone kaput
If you feel that any change at all renders the 2nd amendment "kaput" then perhaps you aren't worthy of it.

That there are limits to every freedom is to be expected in any society that values its safety as much as its freedom.

Any society that values its freedom over its safety will end up without either.

    Bookmark   March 31, 2013 at 11:35PM
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WxDano(5b-2a-6/7)

If you feel that any change at all renders the 2nd amendment "kaput" then perhaps you aren't worthy of it.

Bingo.

Fear of change.

    Bookmark   April 1, 2013 at 6:51AM
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