Why do some liberals become conservatives?

adoptedbyhoundsMarch 1, 2013

Anyone who has gone from being a liberal to a conservative will appreciate this article. I took that journey myself, and the author is spot on in describing how it happens. His description of the random "external event" was fascinating...I knew immediately what mine was. Can anyone else relate to what he's talking about?

FTA: "Rarely, if ever, are prospective changers actually seeking change. In fact their previous political positions on the left may be quite firmly and strongly held, and they would probably consider anyone quite mad who had the audacity to inform them of the transformation about to take place.

But although they may not be interested in change, change is interested in them. It usually begins with something external, some new information encountered seemingly by accident, something that starts to bug the person because it contradicts or doesn’t fit easily into his or her pre-existing framework. It’s like a buzzing fly that won’t quit and can’t be ignored. It causes discomfort, a sense of unease, and the disequilibrium that comes from the dilemma known as cognitive dissonance."

Here is a link that might be useful: Source

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jodik_gw

I don't know any liberal that has changed spots to conservatism... but I do know that many people feel liberal about some issues, and moderately conservative about others. Most people sit somewhere in the middle of the two extremes, truth be told. And then we have our garden variety extremists.

    Bookmark   March 1, 2013 at 11:26AM
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WxDano(5b-2a-6/7)

Well, I saw that the link went to PajamasMedia, so there is no need to read it to absorb the "ideas".

I suspect there are very few cases of "conversion', but the ones that are get trumpeted to high heaven, with angels choruses singing the praises of the converted, and 73 virgins thrown in for good measure.

It's in our brain. Its hard-wired.

    Bookmark   March 1, 2013 at 11:39AM
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marquest(z5 PA)

I have not changed my outlook. But I can say I have always identified as a Liberal. Because it is my very being to be Liberal. By definition is progress. Conservative is to limiting for my idea of a society staying in one place because it is comfortable. To be to careful would mean I should not step out of the box or the bubble.

I could not see any successful business person being successful if they were conservative thinking. I would never have accomplished my goal of retiring at 50, and do the things I wanted to do in life if I lived in a mindset of conservative. Risk to me is a Liberal mindset.

When you see people say someone is cheap....and the response is no they are Conservative.

    Bookmark   March 1, 2013 at 11:39AM
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labrea_gw

The same way a priest or minister ca become an athiest.
There is a thesis & an anti thesis rarely a synthis wit these people.
Judging from you explanation about having been a leftist in a previous post because you voted Democrat I find the interest in the subject amusing!
Again judging from continued developments within the US the Shoe is on the other foot. Conservatism is rarely that in today's parlance it is extremism.
Liberal as far as I have read on this forums an epithet used in constructing an ill thought out sentence!
Of course the terms being used here are assumed to be political some of the most intemperate characters in our culture have been dubbed Conservative!

This post was edited by labrea on Fri, Mar 1, 13 at 13:24

    Bookmark   March 1, 2013 at 11:49AM
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heri_cles

I maintain an open mind and feel sorry for those whose
"pre-existing framework" does not allow them to.

    Bookmark   March 1, 2013 at 11:53AM
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momj47(7A)

It's the money.

Someone, who has fairly moderate ideals, acquires some wealth, but feels very insecure about it. So they become conservative, thinking that will secure their wealth for them.That's a misguided decision.

    Bookmark   March 1, 2013 at 11:59AM
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Factotem

nikoleta wrote,

Anyone who has gone from being a liberal to a conservative will appreciate this article. I took that journey myself, and the author is spot on in describing how it happens. His description of the random "external event" was fascinating...I knew immediately what mine was. Can anyone else relate to what he's talking about?

FTA: "Rarely, if ever, are prospective changers actually seeking change. In fact their previous political positions on the left may be quite firmly and strongly held, and they would probably consider anyone quite mad who had the audacity to inform them of the transformation about to take place.

But although they may not be interested in change, change is interested in them. It usually begins with something external, some new information encountered seemingly by accident, something that starts to bug the person because it contradicts or doesn’t fit easily into his or her pre-existing framework. It’s like a buzzing fly that won’t quit and can’t be ignored. It causes discomfort, a sense of unease, and the disequilibrium that comes from the dilemma known as cognitive dissonance."

Yet, you and other conservatives here do not change your views when you encounter information that conflicts with your pre-determined views; in fact, you generally refuse to even acknowledge that you have posted falsehoods when it is shown that you are wrong. So you are not subject to changing your views when you encounter new information that contradicts or doesn’t fit easily into your pre-existing framework. The proof is all over this board.

    Bookmark   March 1, 2013 at 12:10PM
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demifloyd(8)

Here's a view that Bob Woodard's time should be better spent investigating something else:

"It is not without a bit of irony that, in the 40 years since the explosion of the Watergate story, Bob Woodward would again be under attack from the White House for trying to tell the truth. But this time the attack is coming from a Democrat.

While Barack Obama may not share the Nixon pedigree, he and his White House are the closest thing to the Nixon regime of any that we have seen since then -- both in the extent of their paranoia and their willingness to suppress the truth and push the boundaries of law.

In my lifetime, in over 40 years in national politics, Mr. Obama is the only president who comes close to rivaling Richard Nixon for fundamental disingenuousness.

In my lifetime, Barack Obama is the only president who comes close to rivaling Richard Nixon for fundamental disingenuousness.

However, some things never change, just as Woodward and Bernstein were attacked then by the establishment mainstream media for daring to question a president -- or do a story that they wouldn't touch -- they are once again attacking Woodward the way they did when he and Carl Bernstein pursed Watergate.

As the youngest person on Nixon's enemies list in 1972, I am particularly sensitive to a White House where they have utter disregard for trampling on dissent and on the rights of individuals.

Since Benghazi, when I raised the alarm about a media that was not only willing to blatantly support one political party or one political a candidate but for the first time seemed willing to suppress or ignore the facts and truth as related to a disaster of American foreign policy, my fear has been that we are now on a slippery slope. Almost everything since then has helped to realize that fear. Chuck Hagel, the sequester, Mr. Obama's speeches -- all of these have revealed a mainstream press that has absolutely decided to wear its bias openly as outriders of the Obama administration. Except for one issue -- when the president refused to allow reporters to cover him and Tiger Woods playing golf together. Now that's something they can get riled up about.

What this Woodward, White House sequester battle highlights is the crisis in our democracy. Not so much for what it says about Mr. Obama and his administration but for what it says about the establishment press and all the members of my own party.

During Watergate, there were a number of Republicans who were willing to stand against the president of their party in defense of the United States of America.

Sadly, as as Democrat, I must confess, that today there is no Democratic Senator or member of the House who appears to be willing to publicly put the country ahead of Barack Obama's White House.

As important as these other issues are, however, nothing rivals Benghazi.

During the Chuck Hagel confirmation fight, it was revealed that to this day, neither the public nor the Congress know the names of those who were evacuated out of Benghazi. Nor have we ever seen the transcripts of the interviews which were conducted immediately after the event.

The White House's excuse, that this information cannot be revealed because of an FBI investigation, is eerily and frighteningly similar to Nixon telling H.R. Haldeman and John Ehrlichman to "turn off" the Watergate investigation as it threatened national security.

Sadly, it now appears that Director Mueller and the FBI are willing to serve, once again, as an instrument of cover up for an administration -- this time following a tragedy in which 4 Americans are now dead.

As much as I have always admired Bob Woodward and admire now him in the sequester fight and for his willingness to take on the White House, I cannot refrain from expressing my disappointment that this man, who did such a service for the country 40 years ago, has essentially taken himself off the boards of the Benghazi fiasco. I wish that if Woodward were to get in a fight, he would do it on an issue that really matters to the safety of the United States."

--Patrick Caddell, Democratic Pollster

Foxnews February 28, 2013

REMEMBER BENGHAZI!

    Bookmark   March 1, 2013 at 12:23PM
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rob333

You're unlikely to get a reasonable answer or discussion for this topic nik. That would have to mean that the flip side of the coin gives the theory any crediblility. And that would require that conservatives have any credibility. I appreciate that you brought up the topic, and I would suspect the answers would be highly different if it had been Republicans who turn Democrat. How they came to their senses! or some such idea. Pshaw!

I have always been centrist. Always. Half my family is conservative and the other half liberal, so I understand myself that way. It is likely that we do have some idea of what our family teaches us when we're young regardless of which leaning and either we agree with it, or we find the dissonace disturbing enough to do something different. I wouldn't doubt the pendulum for switching sides is far reaching as the tides in Congress change. Even those in Congress change "sides", it's called party switching. It makes total sense when they're faced with the dissonance while on committees where they see the obstacles face to face. It must unnerve them to see the truth of the matter so squarely. Both parties have switchers. In the past year, J Lozano, C Watkins, J White, and L Holmes switched from Dem to Rep--while R Schmidt and Davis moved from Rep to Dem. It happens all the time. To both parties.

    Bookmark   March 1, 2013 at 12:31PM
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esh_ga

Exactly, please spend your time on something MEANINGFUL. I said that on the other thread. His current beef is not meaningful. There ARE so many other things that could be investigated.

    Bookmark   March 1, 2013 at 12:33PM
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WxDano(5b-2a-6/7)

Lookit the troll changing the subject back to another paranoid tic.

    Bookmark   March 1, 2013 at 12:33PM
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fouquieria(10b)

From her self-description, Ms. Kaufman writes:

Previously a lifelong Democrat, born in New York and living in New England, surrounded by liberals on all sides, I’ve found myself slowly but surely leaving the fold and becoming that dread thing: a neocon. My friends and family don’t want to hear about my inexplicable conversion, so I started this blog to tell the tale of my political change and provide a forum for others. I have a Master’s degree in Marriage and Family Therapy, and my politics make me a pariah there, too. Little did I know that I moved in such politically homogeneous circles.

Who knew. Maybe Ann Coulter was a lib once.

I loved the Newsmax ads on that site...the new Talon News.

-Ron-

    Bookmark   March 1, 2013 at 12:43PM
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Factotem

rob333 wrote,

J Lozano, C Watkins, J White, and L Holmes switched from Dem to Rep--while R Schmidt and Davis moved from Rep to Dem.

Rep. Roy Shmidt did not change parties from Republican to Democratic; he changed from Democratic to Republican.

Artur Davis is not in Congress. He did not move from R to D. He switched from D to R.

    Bookmark   March 1, 2013 at 12:49PM
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jerzeegirl(9)

I wonder why some conservatives become liberals.

    Bookmark   March 1, 2013 at 1:15PM
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david52 Zone 6

Didn't the big shift from Democratic registration to Republican occur during the civil rights era?

    Bookmark   March 1, 2013 at 1:25PM
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TxanGoddess

I think its a shame a whole article was written about such a simple phenomena.

People change parties or ideals based on thier consciences, whichever way the conversion occurs. Sure, some have other psychological factors that influence the decision (particular feelings good or ill, big lifechanging events etc) but since none of us can think or feel for anyone but ourselves; why complicate the matter by judging other people, or trying to speculate on thier motives? There's no way to gain any certainty in such a pursuit, and and generalized conclusions must be of rather dubious value.

    Bookmark   March 1, 2013 at 1:27PM
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labrea_gw

It's Interesting the article is from Pajamas Meida whose co founder jumped ship & parted with the crew that delude themselves into assuming they are conservative. Charles Johnson could no longer be counted among the unhappy culture warriors who populate the American Thinker & WND.

He correctly refers to the crew as the American. Right

Why I Parted Ways With The Right," Johnson's post argues against the fanaticism of politicians like Michele Bachmann, Sarah Palin, Pat Buchanan as well as the conservative blogosphere ("Hatred for President Obama that goes far beyond simply criticizing his policies, into racism, hate speech, and bizarre conspiracy theories (see: witch doctor pictures, tea parties, Birthers, Michelle Malkin, Fox News, World Net Daily, Newsmax, and every other right wing source)"). He also cites the "anti-Islamic bigotry that goes far beyond simply criticizing radical Islam, into support for fascism, violence, and genocide." He concludes:

The American right wing has gone off the rails, into the bushes, and off the cliff.

I won't be going over the cliff with them."

    Bookmark   March 1, 2013 at 1:30PM
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rob333

You're right facto, I wasn't specific enough. Somestimes one can change while a governor or a state congressional official, rather than those on the Federal level... I was referring to all elected officals. As opposed to those of who are only citizens, with no elected office. Although, members of Congress still do this even in present day.

The 60s did have big switches, but so have other timeframes. The 80s and 90s also saw quite a bit of activity.

For anyone who might think this only Republicans switch to Democrats, try giving 1994 a good looksee for party switching. Control of both the House AND the Senate changed to Republican control from switching.

    Bookmark   March 1, 2013 at 2:09PM
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patriciae_gw(07)

Lets start by not confusing Republican/ Democrat with conservative/liberal-these are separate issues that while not entirely unrelated are close enough to not count as in Obama is not a liberal although he is a Democrat. I am a Liberal and I am not a Democrat etc.

We are discussing becoming more Conservative-this is such a common path that it is virtually a cliché. As people age and become more vested in their jobs, house payments, kids they often shed the 'liberal excesses' of their youths. It fits where they are in life but time goes on and typically something else happens-they become more liberal-especially women. You see your parents needing the securities of the liberal safety net and perhaps children whos lives dont go as planned need help from the infamous 'The Government' . You lose your job and need those extended benefits while looking for another one-that sort of thing. I think the political position of most people is situational. I dont think that is necessarily true of people here on Hot topics though because we think about what we believe and why-and write about it which is not the case with many people. They get their political positions thorough inheritance or rebellion and then change to suit.

I thought the article itself was under done-pulpy and baggy. It confuses Liberalism with violence and and totalitarianism. This is either sloppy thinking or obfuscation. It confuses the MSM with the tag of liberal which any liberal knows is fairy dust-the article is full of conservative chestnuts-half cooked at that.

I thought it very telling that this person found the process of change disagreeable-a true conservative at heart.

    Bookmark   March 1, 2013 at 2:12PM
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rob333

"They get their political positions thorough inheritance or rebellion and then change to suit."

While the article could've seen the situation from either side, and it could've been written better-I do think is the crux of what the article said. And we could discuss. I was disappointed when I all the first few things said did not address the issue as an "issue".

Why not just discuss the idea? The dissonace that may have existed for you, or, instead, when you saw why you agreed with your family values or you just plain steeled yourself to stay right where you always were regardless of influcence--once you saw the realities of the world?

    Bookmark   March 1, 2013 at 2:21PM
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fouquieria(10b)

Today society is much further to the right compared to the '60's. In the '60's I would have been considered moderate. Today I'm slightly more conservative than then and yet, when compared to society as a whole today, I would be considered much much more liberal.

It's everybody else that's changed more than me!

-Ron-

    Bookmark   March 1, 2013 at 2:21PM
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nancy_in_venice_ca Sunset 24 z10

Lets start by not confusing Republican/ Democrat with conservative/liberal - these are separate issues that while not entirely unrelated are close enough to not count as in Obama is not a liberal although he is a Democrat. I am a Liberal and I am not a Democrat etc.

Agree!

My political views have changed as I've discovered how our contemporary society functions and how unequal opportunity really is. I've become more left in my outlook.

To be fair, the Republican beliefs of my parents would now earn them the RINO title.

    Bookmark   March 1, 2013 at 2:34PM
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dockside_gw

1968 was a watershed year for me. Up until then, I was a Republican - mainly because my parents were Republican and I had no real idea of what that involved. I was also a Lutheran, because my parents were Lutheran. I had a better idea of what being a Lutheran was, however.

But, in 1968, I filed for divorce, Martin Luther King and Bobby Kennedy were assassinated and I had to try to explain to my children what happened and why. It made me think a lot of my own personal situation and the country and the hate that some people had toward other races and political beliefs. That fall, I voted for Hubert Humphrey, a fellow Minnesotan and have voted mostly for Democrats since then, altho' I voted for a non-endorsed Republican for Minnesota governor in 1990 because I believed the Democratic governor, who was running for his third or fourth term had reached his limit and the GOP-endorsed candidate, one of those "family values" candidates, was a sleaze (he'd made advances to his teen-age daughter's friend, and, from women who were high-up in the Republican party, I learned that he had also made his daughter get an abortion - she was pregnant by a black man altho' that wasn't made public.). But, in the past 12 years, I have not voted for any Republican except WA Secretary of State once or twice (he was a moderate and worth keeping in office).

But, I'm not a Democrat - I refuse to monetarily support the party and work for it. I'm mostly liberal, but do have some conservative views, which are usually not primary so it's the liberal candidate that usually gets my vote.

(I'm also no longer a Lutheran. But, for the most part, I have a lot of respect for the Lutheran church and its adherents. It's just that I no longer can say I believe what they believe.)

    Bookmark   March 1, 2013 at 3:12PM
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mrskjun(9)

I was a Democrat until the mid 80's. Then I felt like the democrat party was veering far to the left and left me standing kind of right of center. So I decided to switch my party affiliation. I'm a conservative with some liberal leanings.

    Bookmark   March 1, 2013 at 3:39PM
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WxDano(5b-2a-6/7)

The Brits have infrastructure emplaced to study the human brain's foibles better than almost anyone.

They find neural pathways and brain areas that help control reactions to fear. One can predict how and where your brain lights up in response to fear whether you tend conservative or liberal.

And it is plainly obvious that the D - R spectrum in this country is broken. There are few true conservatives in the R party any more - they fled in droves starting more than a decade ago after Newties Contract On Murrica.

    Bookmark   March 1, 2013 at 3:39PM
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ohiomom

Yeah well I tried to read it till I came to Horowitz. Some of you know of him and for those who don't there is a link.

"birds of a feather"

Here is a link that might be useful: source of course

    Bookmark   March 1, 2013 at 3:44PM
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Factotem

I wrote,

Artur Davis is not in Congress.

To which rob333 responded,

You're right facto, I wasn't specific enough. Somestimes one can change while a governor or a state congressional official, rather than those on the Federal level... I was referring to all elected officals. As opposed to those of who are only citizens, with no elected office.

Artur Davis did not change political parties while a governor, state legislator, or Federal congressman. He held no elected office at the time.

    Bookmark   March 1, 2013 at 4:22PM
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jodik_gw

Our individual political bents come from a variety of places... they're made up of many different ideas and ideals... some ingrained through family and upbringing, some through religious beliefs, others perhaps through personal experiences, through logistics and how we live, or through learning or reading or discussing various issues...

I call myself "liberal" because most of the things I believe, most of my values, things I agree with, align with what would be considered liberal thinking. But not all of my beliefs are liberal... some are considered quite moderate, or maybe conservative. I'm neither Democrat nor Republican when it comes to political party.

I think a lot of people would have peaks and valleys present representing their beliefs or thinking if each point were to be graphed on paper.

I look at parts of liberalism as having fewer parameters, fewer borders when it comes to the thought process, and the ability to think rationally and reasonably, using vetted facts, without trying to make new ideas fit into pre-existing boxes...

I've never met anyone that has gone from free thinking liberal to full conservatism. Most people don't do a complete flip-flop... not that I've ever come across... but rather change their minds slowly about various issues for various reasons. And it's usually conservatives opening the door to accept more progressive ideas when presented with certain facts... in my opinion.

    Bookmark   March 1, 2013 at 4:35PM
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fouquieria(10b)

I've never met anyone that has gone from free thinking liberal to full conservatism.

I suppose I could if I developed, oh...let's say antisocial personality disorder, or avoidant personality disorder, or histrionic personality disorder, or narcissistic personality disorder, or paranoid personality disorder. You know, that kind of stuff.

-Ron-

    Bookmark   March 1, 2013 at 5:25PM
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mrskjun(9)

Why is that Ron? We all have some part of us that is conservative and some part that is liberal. There are not that many that are extreme liberals or extreme conservatives. Unless maybe you are one of the extremes, and any one of those disorders could be an attribute of yours.

    Bookmark   March 1, 2013 at 6:23PM
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chase_gw

From what is posted on this forum I would say that most conservatives here haven't got one iota of liberal in them.......none, nada, zip. I also believe they would agree with me on that.

    Bookmark   March 1, 2013 at 6:54PM
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labrea_gw

There's that curious term again "conservative" it's almost as curious as liberal rather than say leftist or progressive.
I detest most of these litmus tests because I have found a wide diversity of expressions on this forum which is often not represented by the candidates we vote for.
I notice NIK has not come back and the fiddler keeps playing the same tedious tune so I think i'll turn my dance card over to the door mouse!

Nothing new to cover here!

    Bookmark   March 1, 2013 at 7:05PM
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marshallz10(z9-10 CA)

This topic comes up several times a year in one form or another.

I probably was born libertarian, not liberal, although the RC Church struggled mightily to make me into a conservative and unabashed bigot (those two are separate issues). I took to heart Christ's teachings and rejected, in the end, the trappings of RC. Christ and his apostles embraced lepers, sinners, harlots, and those suffering from misfortunes. Any religion that rejects these or similar humans is not conservative, just reactionary as justified by careful parsing of scriptures. No thank you.

    Bookmark   March 1, 2013 at 9:31PM
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ohiomom

Amen Marshall

    Bookmark   March 1, 2013 at 9:39PM
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demifloyd(8)

Posted by chase z6 (My Page) on
Fri, Mar 1, 13 at 18:54

From what is posted on this forum I would say that most conservatives here haven't got one iota of liberal in them.......none, nada, zip. I also believe they would agree with me on that.

*

Well, I guess that depends on what is considered "liberal."

Considering that liberals don't own certain virtues or mindsets anymore than conservatives do others, I would say that I definitely have more than an "iota" of what some consider more liberal leanings.

I support equal pay, equal rights in the workplace, I support abortion rights (limited to viability outside womb unless for medical reasons), I support government regulation of our food and interstate commerce and welfare in certain circumstances.

Of course, many other conservatives I know agree with me.

Actually, I agree with mrskjun about having leanings both ways.
It's not an "either or" for me.

    Bookmark   March 1, 2013 at 9:39PM
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patriciae_gw(07)

Lets not forget that a chunk of the Democratic party in the old days was 'southern Democrat' which meant 'not Republican' they acted like Republicans and voted like Republicans so if your were from the south you could be under the misapprehension that your more conservatives views were the views of average Democrats but that would not be the case and as you became more aware of the national party line you might very well think the party had moved left when in fact no one moved at all-except finally the Dino's moved to the Republican party. I know all this because my father was just such a Democrat.
.

    Bookmark   March 2, 2013 at 1:13PM
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jodik_gw

We vote for the candidate that most closely reflects our way of thinking, our beliefs... even though they may not share every belief or way of thinking that we claim. It would be difficult, indeed, to find a candidate that reflects everyone equally or has every quality that we want.

    Bookmark   March 2, 2013 at 2:40PM
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chase_gw

I said MOST conservatives posting here...... I didn't say ALL .

    Bookmark   March 2, 2013 at 3:01PM
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fouquieria(10b)

I just remembered a good reason why some liberals become conservatives...

They found God! color="red" size="2">

-Ron-

    Bookmark   March 2, 2013 at 10:20PM
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jodik_gw

Or the opposite... they finally realize that the indoctrination and implanted narrative are no more real than the Grimm fairy tales also read to them...

    Bookmark   March 3, 2013 at 8:31AM
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adoptedbyhounds

"I notice NIK has not come back and the fiddler keeps playing the same tedious tune so I think i'll turn my dance card over to the door mouse!"

Labrea, I am so happy you missed me! :) Yes, I missed you, too.

The day I stood on my aching feet behind a bakery counter, while my neighbor with the biggest house on the block ordered a decorated birthday cake...to be paid for with food stamps...was the day I lost trust in my government-as-a-trustworthy steward.

Decades later, liberal politicians are still pretending to have the moral high ground, even as they pull the same BS on successive generations of workers. Libs are still taxing them and transferring their money to others, with more people than ever getting SNAP benefits.

Back then, my neighbor was buying luxury food items with food stamps the government GAVE her, while I couldn't afford to buy them with the pay check I earned.

That was the "piece of information" (for me) the article refers to. I wasn't looking for change. Change found me.

    Bookmark   March 3, 2013 at 2:43PM
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marshallz10(z9-10 CA)

The bakery could have refused to accept the food stamps, of course. Money in circulation is more valuable to the economy than parsimony.

    Bookmark   March 3, 2013 at 3:16PM
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Factotem

nikoleta wrote,

Decades later, liberal politicians are still pretending to have the moral high ground

Your problem here is that you've acted dishonestly in the past, and you have refused to acknowledge it, so your judgments in this regard carry no weight.

    Bookmark   March 3, 2013 at 3:26PM
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chase_gw

The egregious behavior is that of the abuser .....who very well could have been conservative.

    Bookmark   March 3, 2013 at 3:34PM
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marshallz10(z9-10 CA)

Facto, a broken clock is right two times a day. Perhaps you could give your fellow human beings equal time. (So to speak)

    Bookmark   March 3, 2013 at 3:34PM
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jodik_gw

Not all Democrats pretend to have the moral high ground, and progressives do not seem to have any problem calling them out when they're caught in their corruption.

Take the Democrat Chicago Alderman of the 46th Ward who recently kicked the Salvation Army out... because they were attracting the poor and homeless to his upscale precinct... by offering the poor residents a hot meal once a day, and the opportunity to speak with counselors and obtain help. (Full story can be had through a quick search.)

I'd call that sliding off Morality Mountain into the valley below, and I have no problem saying that this Alderman is a Democrat.

    Bookmark   March 3, 2013 at 3:57PM
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dublinbay z6 (KS)

So some people on welfare are scamming the govt.

And there are doctors and hospitals (at the other end of the scale) who are also scamming the govt.

There are also businessmen and farmers who are scamming the govt.

So what does all that prove? Nothing about political affiliation! It simply shows that human nature is flawed and a number of people at all levels of society will try to get away with as much as they possibly can.

It is not food stamps that CAUSE people to misbehave. The CAUSE is flawed human nature!

And God has nothing to do with it either. Have you forgotten those "men of God" with lucrative televangelist TV shows who ended up in court, were convicted, and are spending considerable time in jail? It wasn't food stamps that CAUSED their misbehavior either. Like all the other groups, their flawed human nature drove them to get away with whatever they thought they could!

So changing political persuasions because the Democrat created welfare is downright ridiculous and beside the point!

Kate

    Bookmark   March 3, 2013 at 5:17PM
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marshallz10(z9-10 CA)

Thank you, Kate, for stating the obvious. I hadn't the heart to respond to such silliness.

    Bookmark   March 3, 2013 at 5:40PM
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thegreatcob

the answer is simple they get mugged,

    Bookmark   March 3, 2013 at 6:05PM
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fouquieria(10b)

It is not food stamps that CAUSE people to misbehave. The CAUSE is flawed human nature!

I didn't realize this, but my sister told me that here in CA, they issue a card (much like a debit card) and it's refilled each month. My sister says the problem is that some businesses will cash out the card for the issuee each month for a substantial fee. So in effect, they're scamming on both ends at the same time.

-Ron-

This post was edited by fouquieria on Sun, Mar 3, 13 at 19:19

    Bookmark   March 3, 2013 at 6:13PM
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dublinbay z6 (KS)

I thought that I had also added in my previous post (it must have got lost in cyberspace) that the scammers certainly cannot be identified as liberals. I don't know what political affiliation a welfare mother may have (none, I suspect, in many cases), but I'm pretty sure that doctors, farmers, and businessmen have many, many conservatives in their ranks. And we know that those convicted televangelists all proclaimed themselves to be right-wing conservatives.

So maybe the question should why so many of the scammers are conservatives, considering that conservatives are more moral and have God on their side (according to them). You'd think with all that going for them, they could be at least as moral as those atheistic liberals (according to the conservatives).

Hmmm--maybe there is something flawed about the original premise we/they started with?

Kate

    Bookmark   March 3, 2013 at 6:53PM
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marquest(z5 PA)

The day I stood on my aching feet behind a bakery counter, while my neighbor with the biggest house on the block ordered a decorated birthday cake...to be paid for with food stamps...was the day I lost trust in my government-as-a-trustworthy steward.

Nik you are not serious are you? Do you really make decisions of who you are because of a neighbor's morals, dignity, honesty?

    Bookmark   March 3, 2013 at 11:05PM
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Factotem

thegreatcob wrote,

the answer is simple they get mugged,

This is a very important statement from a conservative. It shows that some conservatives base their positions not on facts and reasoning but on emotion, and more specifically, on fear. Very revealing.

    Bookmark   March 3, 2013 at 11:22PM
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marshallz10(z9-10 CA)

Our Robb-er is a big bad smart businesscritter who does not give a fig that we cannot understand his sordid orgiastasms against progressiveness.

    Bookmark   March 4, 2013 at 2:16AM
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adoptedbyhounds

"Nik you are not serious are you? Do you really make decisions of who you are because of a neighbor's morals, dignity, honesty?"

Not sure I'm following your question, Marquest. My neighbor did nothing wrong. Are you suggesting she did?

The immorality and dishonesty belong to the politicians. If they didn't want the money they took away from the people who earned it to be used for decorated birthday cakes and junk food, they would have written a different law.

At least back then, we didn't have Democrats creating soap operas to teach 12 million illegal aliens how to work a system they're not entitled to use, in a country they entered without permission.

Here is a link that might be useful: We need more people on food stamps!

    Bookmark   March 4, 2013 at 6:13PM
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demifloyd(8)

At least back then, we didn't have Democrats creating soap operas to teach 12 million illegal aliens how to work a system they're not entitled to use, in a country they entered without permission.

*

There was, or may still be a billboard in Louisiana with a photo of a minority female holding an infant, encouraging welfare dependence.

I don't know what else we expect than what we have.

    Bookmark   March 5, 2013 at 2:43PM
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marshallz10(z9-10 CA)

What we have is, for an example, a health care system that one could die for, so to speak. Last year I signed a DNR for myself so as not to saddle my children with the costs of futile end-of-life techniques just to sustain basic life signs. My 20 hours in emergency and overnight care cost Medicare some negotiated part of $30,000 which did not include major medication nor technology (those came some time later in followup diagnostics for another $22,000,) For all that money, no sure diagnosis was offered. My original guess was generally accepted as most likely: inner ear imbalance.

    Bookmark   March 5, 2013 at 3:30PM
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Factotem

demiloyd wrote,

There was, or may still be a billboard in Louisiana with a photo of a minority female holding an infant, encouraging welfare dependence.

What words did it use that encouraged welfare dependence?

Where was the billboard located?

Who paid for the billboard?

    Bookmark   March 5, 2013 at 7:04PM
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WxDano(5b-2a-6/7)

There was, or may still be a billboard in Louisiana with a photo of a minority female holding an infant, encouraging welfare dependence.

I don't know what else we expect than what we have.

Words: not intended to convey facts or information.

This post was edited by WxDano on Tue, Mar 5, 13 at 19:16

    Bookmark   March 5, 2013 at 7:14PM
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huachuma

It can be caused by dementia... I'm not being facetious here.

My mother passed away a few years back from complications of Alzheimer's. She was a very liberal thinker all her life, but she wouldn't have identified as a liberal.

Once the disease set in she changed immensely. She became increasingly concerned about money and perceived shortcomings of others.

Every time I see old white folks (of which I'm quickly joining the ranks) gnashing their teeth about socialism, etc. I can't help think about dear mom in her last years, so worried about things that she didn't care a whit about a decade earlier.

Funny thing is that my father, who had been quite conservative all his life, really began to lighten up when he hit his 60's...

    Bookmark   March 5, 2013 at 7:38PM
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