That whole propagation thing

alaMel(4a)June 14, 2011

I just need clarification here please. So if I buy a pp variety, I can not plant the seeds from the plant I paid for?

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gardengal48

Not sure what you mean by a "pp variety". Do you mean a patented plant? Propagation of those is restricted/prohibited by asexual methods......cuttings, layering, division, etc. You are free to grow from seed but offspring will not come true to the parent (and therefore cannot be considered the same as the parent plant) and very often the seed may be sterile anyway.

Although technically illegal (and you could be subject to prosecution), asexual propagation of patented plants for home use only - no sale or trades - is generally overlooked or ignored. Regardless, it is still not a practice I would encourage.

    Bookmark   June 15, 2011 at 11:11AM
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alaMel(4a)

Thank you. I do not want to do anything illegal and I'm not sure I have the patience for growing seeds anyway. I just seem to have taste for patented plants and frowned at the thought of shelling out cash EVERY year. Such is life.

    Bookmark   June 15, 2011 at 8:50PM
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gardengal48

Unless they are annuals - or single season plants - you shouldn't need to purchase more every year. The vast majority of patented plants are perennial (and/or woody) and live for many years. Of course you could be like me and have an urge to try the newest patented introductions and just keep buying :-)

    Bookmark   June 16, 2011 at 9:38AM
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Tiffany, purpleinopp GardenWeb, Z8b Opp, AL

If you have the time, space, and inclination, there is nothing wrong with saving your tender perennials via cuttings, potted plants brought inside, saved tubers, whatever the case may be for the particular plant. You paid for the plant and can do whatever you want with it personally. The "rules" are there to prevent you from trying to cash-in on someone else's work by taking a bunch of cuttings and selling them. For example, it's the same as someone not being allowed to copy Windows operating system and selling it. But if you get a new computer, you can put the windows disc you paid for in your new computer and install it for your personal use. It's a good thing and the results are that people who know how to breed interesting new plants to offer have the financial incentive to do so.

Are there particular plants you would like to attempt to save? I hate to break this to you, but I'm pretty sure you already have been infected by the gardening bug. Unfortunately there is no cure, BUT as you gain experience, you will learn how and when you should spend money on it. ...and then you'll probably spend twice as much anyway!

    Bookmark   June 16, 2011 at 9:49AM
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alaMel(4a)

I have some annuals that I bought for containers that are GORGEOUS! In this area, I've had a hard time finding the same plants year after year. I have a Proven Winner I'ld like to see around for a while. I have several container annuals that are patented. :( I certainly do not want to sell them. I don't even know why I asked. Like I really have the ambition to grow indoors from seed anyway?! We have already proven through my kids gardening projects, that our house is a dangerous place for seedlings. LOL Just was trying to save the $200/year in annuals and supplies.

    Bookmark   June 16, 2011 at 10:27AM
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rhizo_1 (North AL) zone 7

Actually, that's not true, purple. Patented plants cannot legally be propagated asexually by anyone whether the end product is going to be sold or planted in a back yard garden. The laws are applied to everyone and the purpose is to protect the plant line as well as the 'inventor' of the particular plant.

It's akin to downloading music illegally or copying movies. Not legal but a lot of people do it, anyway. Someone recently offered to make a copy of a recorded book and that made the hair on the back of my neck tingle.

There are no "plant patent police" out there, driving through our neighborhoods with binoculars, though. The biggest problems, obviously, are those nurseries that take a few thousand cuttings of a patented plant and sell them, either with a new name or a generic name.

    Bookmark   June 16, 2011 at 2:53PM
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lurkandkibitz

* Posted by rhizo_1 7a AL (My Page) on
Thu, Jun 16, 11 at 14:53

Actually, that's not true, purple. Patented plants cannot legally be propagated asexually by anyone whether the end product is going to be sold or planted in a back yard garden. The laws are applied to everyone and the purpose is to protect the plant line as well as the 'inventor' of the particular plant.

Can you provide us with links where this is documented?

    Bookmark   June 16, 2011 at 6:27PM
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morz8(Washington Coast Z8b)

Rights Conveyed by a Plant Patent

Grant of a patent for a plant precludes others from asexually reproducing or selling or using the patented plant.

Here is a link that might be useful: US Patent Office document

    Bookmark   June 16, 2011 at 9:46PM
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rhizo_1 (North AL) zone 7

And the operative word is OR. One cannot reproduce for any reason OR sell OR use the patented plant....

You can look up any definition, explanation, or description of plant patents and you'll find the same wording.

    Bookmark   June 16, 2011 at 11:11PM
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gardengal48

It might be important to insert the wording unlicensed reproduction or propagation into the discussion. Wholesale growers and nurserymen can legally propagate patented plants by asexual means as long as they have paid for the right/license to do so and the product sold only under the registered patent or trademarked name. Proven Winners is only a marketing operation - not all of the plant sold under that label are patented and the ones that are are propagated by them under license.

As an example, the owner of the nursery I work for grows and sells a lot of patented plants. But he pays a royalty fee for every single one - typically in the form of a plug or liner - he grows on and sells to the public. If he were to take his own cuttings or divisions of these plants, he would need to be licensed by the patent holder to do so legally.

    Bookmark   June 17, 2011 at 2:56PM
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alaMel(4a)

I guess this is another god reason to keep all the plant markers. I was horrified when my neighbor told me threw her's out. She couldn't even tell me what she was growing. Lol

    Bookmark   June 17, 2011 at 4:32PM
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lindac(Iowa Z 5/4)

But....you can grow seed from all the patented plants you want....because that is sexual reproduction and the plant will not be the same as either parent.
Linda C

    Bookmark   June 19, 2011 at 7:10PM
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rhizo_1 (North AL) zone 7

That's correct, Linda.

    Bookmark   June 20, 2011 at 12:32AM
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Tiffany, purpleinopp GardenWeb, Z8b Opp, AL

Well this has been interesting and informative. Thanks for correcting my misconceptions.

    Bookmark   June 20, 2011 at 10:26AM
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rhizo_1 (North AL) zone 7

I should amend my earlier statement that "there are no plant police out there, driving through our neighborhoods with binoculars..." . There ARE inspectors, but their time is spent at the locations where plants are propagated and/or sold. All of the paperwork had better be in order when the 'plant police' pay a visit.

    Bookmark   June 20, 2011 at 12:14PM
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alaMel(4a)

I wonder if the plant police have an official uniform. Lol

    Bookmark   June 20, 2011 at 1:04PM
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rhizo_1 (North AL) zone 7

I know you meant your comment to be droll, but they actually DO have uniforms.

    Bookmark   June 21, 2011 at 10:19PM
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alaMel(4a)

ROFLLLLL Oooo oooo I gotta know what their patch looks like. Just for fun mind you. Now I gotta google 'plant police' and see what I come up with! LOLLLLLLLLLL

    Bookmark   June 21, 2011 at 11:29PM
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Tiffany, purpleinopp GardenWeb, Z8b Opp, AL

Whenever the plant police get mentioned I've always pictured...
a hawaiian shirt...
floppy straw hat...
daisy badge with smiley face "Hi! My name is..."
flip-flops...
a SQUIRT gun...
dandelion fork in the flashlight holder...
ball of twine instead of handcuffs...
camera...
pruner...

Just the flax, ma'am!

    Bookmark   June 22, 2011 at 10:11AM
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alaMel(4a)

Purpleinopp, ROFL oh yes! That sounds right. LOVE IT!~

    Bookmark   June 22, 2011 at 9:01PM
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