Echinacea tennesseensis

dkkbeach(VA)July 12, 2005

I saw Echinacea tennesseensis seeds for sale online on a few sights. Isn't that illegal if you dont have a permit. The websites didn't mention that it was an endangered species either. Also I grow carnivorous plants and for Sarracenia oreophila which is also endangered the laws protecting it are very strict. I would think it would be the same. Thanks for reading. ~David

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paalexan(NM)

Well, the Endangered Species Act makes it illegal to possess, sell, or transport federally listed endangered species. See link. Echinacea tennesseensis is federally listed, so it sure sounds illegal to me.

That people are selling it openly suggests that either the ESA is very poorly enforced or there are loopholes I don't know about.

Patrick Alexander

Here is a link that might be useful: fws.gov: Endangered Species Act

    Bookmark   July 13, 2005 at 3:06AM
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jillmcm(z6 PA)

A local nursery sells E. tennesseensis and we have some in our garden. I'm not sure, but I believe that selling propagated plants is acceptable under the law, which does contain language allowing for the propagation of an endangered species. It may also depend on the source of the materials - if the germline of the E. tenn. being sold comes from garden stock held before the adoption of the Act, the owners can do whatever they like. Or perhaps the E. tenn. being sold is considered a cultivar and not the same as the pure species.

But regardless, yes, the ESA is poorly enforced.

    Bookmark   July 13, 2005 at 7:33AM
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ahughes798(z5 IL)

David,

What kind of Sarrs do you have? I have a few myself.

I also grow Tennessee Cone Flower, which I bought at a local nursery. The ones grown for commercial use could all be clones, like those E. "Art's Pride."

    Bookmark   July 13, 2005 at 4:57PM
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dkkbeach(VA)

Thanks everyone for your replys. I agree it is poorly enforced. But perhaps it is good for companys to sell the seeds and plants so that people wont go collect the wild plants.
As for Sarracenia I grow :alata, alata nigrapurpurea, flava, leucophylla, oreophila, minor, rubra ssp. rubra, gulfensis, wherryii, psittacina, and purpurea. .. yesterday I was weeding them and a wasp stung me... but I know my Sarracenia will avenge me.. ha ha ha

    Bookmark   July 13, 2005 at 6:09PM
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pitimpinai(z6 Chicago)

I have seen it listed in Johnny's Selected Seeds catalog for years. Wouldn't this company be aware of what is illegal what is allowed?

    Bookmark   July 13, 2005 at 9:10PM
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Soeur(z6b TN)

It's my understanding that here in TN you have to be licensed by the state to grow TN Coneflower for sale, and you need some kind of federal permit to sell it across state lines. Whether this is enforced or not is another issue. If one owns land where the species occurs, one can do as one wishes with the seed, but the licensing requirement still applies if you want to sell the plants. I do know that hybrids with a lot of E. tennesseensis blood are legally available -- Jelitto offers 'Rocky Top Hybrids', and the ones I've seen look very like Tn. Coneflower. It may be that some are selling the readily available hybrids as the much harder to come by species.

Soeur

    Bookmark   July 13, 2005 at 9:38PM
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mickeyj(z7a NY)

I have just begun re-reading Planting Noah's Garden and Sara Stein wrote specifically about E. tennesseensis in regards to selling federally endangered plants.

1) Nurseries selling to out-of-state customers need a permit. If in doubt, ask. 2) If you are out of the normal growing area of the plant you may only plant it in a garden setting, not in a wild area.

I have notided some nurseries that once sold the hybrid of tenneseeinsis and purpurea are now selling the specis, so more places must be getting permits.

    Bookmark   August 2, 2005 at 9:50AM
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Fledgeling_(4b SD)

"If one owns land where the species occurs, one can do as one wishes with the seed,"

Actually, that is restricted under the endangerd species act as well under plants, seeds or any other material.

    Bookmark   August 2, 2005 at 8:25PM
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Fledgeling_(4b SD)

Is Echinacea tennesseensis the same plant as the also endangerd Echinacea laevigata, or are they different species?

    Bookmark   August 2, 2005 at 10:33PM
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paalexan(NM)

"Is Echinacea tennesseensis the same plant as the also endangerd Echinacea laevigata, or are they different species?"

They are different species. Echinacea tennesseensis only occurs in Tennessee, whereas Echinacea laevigata occurs in a few states in the SE US, but not in Tennessee. Also, for what it's worth, Echinacea laevigata is distinguished from the other Echinaceas by having leaves that are glabrous (without hairs) or nearly so; this is the reason for the name, since laevigata means "smooth".

Patrick Alexander

    Bookmark   August 3, 2005 at 1:51AM
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amy_z6_swpa

I was appalled to find it just now in the Plant Delights catalog. They say right out in the description that it's federally endangered. They don't mention if they have permission or not!

    Bookmark   August 12, 2005 at 11:56AM
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fredsbog

I too saw the plant yesterday in Plant delights catalog. I'm thrilled that endangered species are being PROPAGATED and sold.

While it is very true that we need to preserve the habitats of rare and endangered plants, propagation and disemination also help preserve the species (even though we have a habit of selecting specific clones that may vary from the wild type).

As I've come to understand the law, it is legal to grow endangered species and sell intrastate. Selling interstate does require a permit (poorly enforced). If the plants are growing on your private property naturally you may do with them as you wish including destroy them. unfortunately this has been done by people who don't want to deal with the possibility (misconceived)that their property could be taken to preserve a species.

    Bookmark   August 12, 2005 at 2:58PM
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susanargus(z7 NoVA)

I'm growing three Echinacea tennesseensis 'Rocky Top Hybrids' in my yard right now that I bought from Bluestone Perennials this spring. I've found they are very slow growing and haven't yet bloomed, but it may be due to the level of shade where they are - I plan to move them this fall.

Has anyone here grown these successfully? What conditions do you have them in?

Here is a link that might be useful: Bluestone's tennesseensis

    Bookmark   August 16, 2005 at 8:02AM
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gypsygirl_ky(il)

I believe that growing them is an act of conservation. I have seen the seeds for sale and seen websitres mention that they are endangered, but growing them helps bring back and preserve the species. The tennesseensis grows in Tennessee in cedar groves. Probably a bunch of dumb humans doing what they do best. Destroying a land that has something so special, so people have to save some by growing these beauties at home. fredsbog is right, whiel the land that harbors these gifts should be protected, it sadly isnt and sometimes we have to do what we can to save the species.

    Bookmark   July 31, 2006 at 2:15PM
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echinaceamaniac(7)

These can take two years to bloom. Mix some sand with their soil and they should thrive. I have mine in full sun and they are covered with blooms. I grew them from seed last year. They are much smaller than the other varieties.

    Bookmark   July 12, 2007 at 4:47PM
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