GOP: White Like Me

nancy_in_venice_ca Sunset 24 z10March 17, 2012

This analysis appeared in the LAT on Friday, March 16. Always seeking to avoid offending anyone, the paper decided to change the title to "Is Today's GOP Too White to Win?" from that which appears in the National Journal.

The analysis gives the short-term and long-term reasons why the GOP is so invested in providing a solution to the non-existent problem of voter fraud. Since they party is unwilling - or unable - to attract minorities and younger voters (maybe add women after the GOP legislative nervous breakdown regarding sex and procreation), their only hope is to restrict the number of potentional voters in those groups. While none of this is news, but rather a continuing trend, the GOP seems incapable of changing while facing the fact that its core is diminishing -- with the future promising more of the same. White Like Me ... the Republican presidential primaries have witnessed an epic failure by the GOP contenders to attract and engage minority voters. White voters, especially older ones, are routinely casting 90 percent or more of the votes in GOP contests this year, at least as high a proportion as in 2008....

Republicans today rely on a preponderantly white coalition centered on older and blue-collar voters, many of whom express great unease not only about activist government but also about the demographic changes swelling the minority population. Democrats depend on a coalition of minorities and of white voters (particularly those with college degrees) who are the most comfortable with government activism and the propulsive demographic transformation.

This year's tumultuous Republican presidential race has underscored the dominance of whites, especially older white voters, in the GOP. After Tuesday's contests in Alabama and Mississippi, exit polls have been conducted in 16 states that have held Republican primaries or caucuses. In all but two, whites cast at least 90 percent of the ballots. Indeed, whites delivered at least 94 percent of the votes in all but five GOP contests this year. Whites represented only 74 percent of all voters in the 2008 general election...Whites are dominating the GOP electorate even in rapidly diversifying states.

This year's Republican electorate shades not only white but also gray. In 12 of the 16 states where exit polls have been conducted, voters over 50 cast at least 60 percent of the GOP primary votes; in the other four, they represented at least 55 percent of the vote. Just 43 percent of 2008 general-election voters were that old. Even compared with the 2008 GOP primaries, the gray tint is much more pronounced.

All of this flags near- and long-term challenges for the Republican Party. The problem this fall will be to attract minority (and younger) voters who are uninspired, or even alienated, by the primaries. As GOP front-runner Mitt Romney has hurtled to the right on immigration, recent surveys have shown Obama's support against him matching, or exceeding, the president's 67 percent showing among Hispanics in 2008.

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woodnymph2_gw

Very interesting stats. Guess we will have to wait til all the Old White Guys die off and the minorities increase before we will see real change in this country?

The college-educated young people I know are utterly turned off by the 3 clowns the Repub. party has presented....

    Bookmark   March 17, 2012 at 1:35PM
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jillinnj

Thank you Nancy. Very interesting. I hope they eventually wake up and realize what they've done. It would be nice to go back to a time of reasonable discussions about the topics of the day when those topics were not social issues that were decided a long time ago.

I do find it strange that almost everyone in the picture with the story are women. Do they not understand what their party, and Santorum in particular, thinks of them? Guess not. I did see a story recently about the fact that not many college educated people vote for Santorum.

    Bookmark   March 17, 2012 at 2:19PM
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ohiomom

Well this would explain their plans (legislation) for breeding the "american female", perhaps it would be better to breed them in captivity where they can control the programming.

    Bookmark   March 17, 2012 at 2:40PM
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heri_cles

Jeb Bush believes that the GOP is becoming the GOWP, the grand ole white person's party yet at the same time, he holds to the same ideologies and policies that his brother Dubya does. Therefore, I am not sure why he feels it necessary to state the obvious because it doesn't matter, unless he is suggesting that he would attract different voters, which I doubt.
Pointing out that older white men are likely to vote against Obama (no matter who is the GOP nominee) is like someone pointing out that the GOPers do well in the South, among Evangelicals and born agains, or among Foxbox watchers.

Couple this with the fact that more older people tend to vote as do those who are more angry and are motivated to vote against something rather than for something. That is why the anti-Obama candidate is just about running even with Obama in recent polling and, depending on which way the wind is blowing in November could win. Those angry old white men will find a way to the polls, even if they have to get there on crutches.
There are some angry people including some that are here, that will be the first in line to vote against Obama.
It doesn't matter if it's Santorum, Romney or Howdy Doody.

    Bookmark   March 17, 2012 at 3:20PM
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dublinbay z6 (KS)

It just occurred to me--back at the turn of the century (19th to 20th), there was a similar concern about too many darker type immigrants coming to America and skewing the racial make-up of our country. Folks back then were not as "polite" as they are today. They would come right out and say the darker ones are breeding too abundantly, whereas the birth rate for whites was dropping off drastically. Alarmed that that meant the darker ones would eventually take over the country, white eugenicists strongly urged white women to start have more babies (white ones of course)--don't let the darker ones beat you at the baby making game. Patriotic Americans (whites of course) must start breeding in greater number in order the "save" America.

You don't suppose the current craze in certain quarters to deprive women of access to birth control and abortion is some kind of newfangled, updated eugenics program aimed at increasing the number of white babies born--in order to keep America (or at least the GOP) whiter than the general demographic forecast for our future, do you? It does seem a strange coincidence, now that I think of it, that as today's GOP gets whiter and whiter, it also insists that women's ability to control their fertility should be interfered with--as in, have more babies? Has there been some kind of study that shows a higher birth control/abortion rate among white women--a trend that needs to be reversed if America (or is that the GOP?) is to remain white?

Just thinking out loud. Back in the late 19th Century and early 20th Century, prominent people like Theodore Roosevelt preached this eugenics stuff--by which they meant, save the white race. Many objected to women even getting higher educations because it was observed that college-educated women had many fewer children than uneducated women did--and they quickly noticed that the educated women with fewer children were predominately white, whereas the uneducated women with many more children were the darker races/ethnicities.

It was a Republican position over 100 years ago (see Theodore Roosevelt). Still is? I'm just asking. Curious coincidence.

Kate

    Bookmark   March 17, 2012 at 3:21PM
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inkognito

The Nazi's gave that kind of thinking a bad reputation Kate but before that what you are talking about was a commonly held notion of purity. Incidentally the book Nancy's thread title alludes to is one of the most eye opening books on racism.

    Bookmark   March 17, 2012 at 3:42PM
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marquest(z5 PA)

f you watch any other political station other than Fox you will hear this analysis often. It has really sent the Republican party into a panic when the results of the 2010 Census. That showed that White American are becoming the minority in the US.

My daughter is in the legal profession and she said everyone at the firm are Democratic leaning and at social function if politics is even lightly mentioned it is Democratic leaning.

It would be logical that if you have educated people they would have a hard time following a party that would say and do things that are so easily found to be false and not in their best interest they are not going to follow stupid. They can read and comprehend what is in their best interest.

dublinbay
Santoruim and education.........same concept.
.They would come right out and say the darker ones are breeding too abundantly, whereas the birth rate for whites was dropping off drastically. Alarmed that that meant the darker ones would eventually take over the country, white eugenicists strongly urged white women to start have more babies (white ones of course)--don't let the darker ones beat you at the baby making game.

Think about Santorum's anti-intellectualism speech. He has several degrees but he would discourage his followers from getting a education. Why???? Keep them stupid and you can lead them to believe anything you say. lol

    Bookmark   March 17, 2012 at 4:25PM
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adoptedbyhounds

"... the Republican presidential primaries have witnessed an epic failure by the GOP contenders to attract and engage minority voters. White voters, especially older ones, are routinely casting 90 percent or more of the votes in GOP contests this year, at least as high a proportion as in 2008...."

Yep. To put it another way, Democrats no longer attract the white working class. The party wrote them off right after the 2010 elections when the GOP took back the House and took control of state and local governments all across the county.

Something is going on with white workers. Looking forward to seeing how it all plays out in November. Depending on how the SCOTUS rules on the challenged photo ID requirements, I'm wondering what (if any) impact the ruling will have on voter turnout this November.

The link below is to a NYT article analyzing which voters will have to turn out if Obama is avoid being a single term Democrat, like Jimmy Carter.

Here is a link that might be useful: NYT article Dems abandon white working class

    Bookmark   March 17, 2012 at 6:00PM
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fouquieria(10b)

Democrats no longer attract the white working class.

You mean like the unionistas? Or do they no longer qualify as "working class" in your parallel universe?

-Ron-

    Bookmark   March 17, 2012 at 6:28PM
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fouquieria(10b)

Based on final and official results from the six states whose primaries preceded Super Tuesday and near final and unofficial results from the seven Super Tuesday primaries, 7,846,172 voted out of 68,125,000 eligible citizens or 11.5 percent. Turnout in 2008 was 13.2 percent of eligibles and it was 12.2 in 2000.

Virginia had less than 5% turnout and Missouri had less than 6% turnout.

-Ron-

    Bookmark   March 17, 2012 at 6:35PM
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jodik_gw

So, where do all the bi-racial people fall in this?

One day, hopefully, people will finally grasp the notion that people are just people, and are more alike than they think, in spite of any outward differences. Or maybe, the various races will mix enough that it won't matter.

I just don't understand the prejudice thing.

    Bookmark   March 17, 2012 at 6:36PM
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nancy_in_venice_ca Sunset 24 z10

there was a similar concern about too many darker type immigrants coming to America and skewing the racial make-up of our country.

It wasn't just the idea of foreigners, but Catholic foreigners from southern Europe.

Reading some of the accounts of the time, the Protestant Anglo-Saxon elites were worried about the effect of Catholicism and the culture (and politics too) of the late 19th-early 20th century wave of European immigration.

And now we have Santorum. Who would have guessed?

Regarding changing demographics, the GOP decline has been long predicted in California - and has now come to pass with the future looking even bleaker. Plenty of warning and yet the CA GOP cannot rid itself of its anti-immigrant rhetoric. And the extreme anti-tax stance that their beloved Ronald Reagan ditched when he was governor and saw the state's finances circling the drain. The GOP was humiliated by a complete sweep of state offices by the Democrats in 2010, but they've done little to change since that disastrous election season.

    Bookmark   March 17, 2012 at 6:40PM
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lily316(z5PA)

Santorum really preaches home schooling. His wife home schools all seven of their kids ,because if they ever were allowed in the real world..OMG, maybe they would see their dad is a charlatan.

    Bookmark   March 18, 2012 at 1:25AM
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haydayhayday

Every day I wake up to a new War on Old Southern White Men thread. I feel attacked from every side.

God help us Old Southern White Men if women should figure out how the Mites do it.

"Imagine a female-only world where all newborns are clones of their mothers and any incidental males immediately undergo sex changes to restore the all-female population.

Now there's no need to imagine....

....

And, as for any men who may be concerned about a similar bug infecting human populations, rest assured, the scientists say this is very unlikely.

"We have something called genomic imprinting which would prevent anything like this from ever happening to humans," says Weeks. "But then again, who knows?""

I figure that as long as God makes big heavy couches and infects women with the constant desire to rearrange furniture, we men can still have some hope.

Hay

    Bookmark   March 18, 2012 at 9:30AM
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vgkg(Z-7)

Well this angry old white man sees absolutely nothing encouraging being offered up by any of the repubs to heal the nations wounds. None of them can be trusted period. And as mentioned in another thread my other angry old white x-repub friend probably won't even vote in Nov unless a 3rd party representing the old fashioned conservative option is offered, you know the type, back when repubs were actually conservative. I predict a flipped situation of the 1980's where Reagan demos are mirrored by Obama repubs.

    Bookmark   March 18, 2012 at 9:32AM
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haydayhayday

Women, in reality, are more like Mosquitos

"Although a few species are harmless or even useful to humanity, most are a nuisance because they suck blood from vertebrates, many of them attacking humans. In feeding on blood various species of mosquitoes transmit some of the most harmful human and livestock diseases. Some authorities argue accordingly that mosquitoes are the most dangerous animals on earth.

....

Typically, both male and female mosquitoes feed on nectar and plant juices, but in many species the mouthparts of the females are adapted for piercing the skin of animal hosts and sucking their blood as ectoparasites."

Who needs these ectoparasites!!!!

Men, Rise UP!!!!!

Hay

    Bookmark   March 18, 2012 at 9:41AM
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haydayhayday

Men, need I remind you of the Black Widows?

This is just the beginning, I tell you!!!!

(Remember Michelle's dress? Listen up, you fools!!!)

Hay

    Bookmark   March 18, 2012 at 10:01AM
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marquest(z5 PA)

Hay I think you doth protest too much.. Read the entire post. Where do you see White Men????

I learned when someone sees boggie men in every corner they are in one of those corners.

This post is about whether the GOP contenders attract and engage minority voters. Not that White Men are bad, or White Men are being attacked.

Add something to the topic and stop defending being a White Male would be helpful. (boogie man in the corner).

When you start attacking women calling them Mosquitos. Do you know that if someone really thought that you were serious and since we assume you were not hatched. That would mean your Mother was a Mosquito so that would make you a_________????? What about your Grandmother what was she?_________ Please fill in the blanks. Maybe we can help you understand what this topic is about.

    Bookmark   March 18, 2012 at 10:08AM
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haydayhayday

"White Like Me."

I can read.

And I can see where it immediately goes:

"Guess we will have to wait til all the Old White Guys die off and the minorities increase before we will see real change in this country?

Men, be afraid, be very afraid!!!!

I think maybe Labrea is showing us The Way Out.

Hay

    Bookmark   March 18, 2012 at 10:38AM
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lily316(z5PA)

That's why I'm a bee keeper. The Queen and her maidens rule the hive very efficiently, I might add, and in the fall when they are no longer needed, the drones are killed. They don't want them sponging off their hard work. ..lol

    Bookmark   March 18, 2012 at 11:47AM
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woodnymph2_gw

Kate, I agree--- it is a curious coincidence. Eugenics redux. Some white Evangelical Fundamentalists I've tried to have conversations with are really uncomfortable with the "breeding" of Blacks in the US, and express fears at living in cities, being surrounded by Black neighborhoods. Clearly they feel threatened by multiculturalism but they are now using coded language about their fears.

    Bookmark   March 18, 2012 at 11:57AM
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adoptedbyhounds

Democrats no longer attract the white working class.
"You mean like the unionistas? Or do they no longer qualify as "working class" in your parallel universe?"

Take a deep breath, Ron. Nancy's numbers come from Democrats. The NYT article I posted tells the same story. You'll need to do your own reading (which you clearly have not done) in order to understand what Democrats mean by white working class.

Your disbelief and gratuitous comments about my living in a "parallel universe" tell me that this information is both new and unsettling to you. Attacking the messenger is futile, however. The GOP has finally become the undisputed home of the white working class. So much so that some Democrat strategists urged the party to shift their focus to recruiting new voters, rather than wasting resources on the masses of white working class voters lost to the party over the years.

You might want to thank Nancy for bringing her helpful information to light. Here's another tidbit for you. A black worker is more likely to belong to a union than a white worker. Look it up.

Democrat strategists tell us the party must cobble together a new coalition of voters for the coming election. What they don't tell us is that their opposition to photo ID is crafted with one purpose in mind: Keeping improperly registered voters on the rolls, and registering as many new voters as possible without confirming either their identities, nor the American citizenship that entitles them to vote in our presidential elections.

America's DOJ is in colluding with the Democrat party, and against the American people who are demanding clean elections. The SCOTUS can refuse to rubber stamp what the DOJ is up to, or not.

I pray that there is enough integrity left on the SCOTUS to over rule the corruption at the DOJ.

    Bookmark   March 18, 2012 at 12:34PM
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dublinbay z6 (KS)

What they don't tell us is that [the Democrats] opposition to photo ID is crafted with one purpose in mind: Keeping improperly registered voters on the rolls, and registering as many new voters as possible without confirming either their identities, nor the American citizenship that entitles them to vote in our presidential elections.

Evidence? You keep making these wild charges based on NO EVIDENCE! I keep asking for evidence. You keep ignoring the request--and just repeating (again and again) the unsubstantiated accusations. Repetition won't convince anybody here. Evidence might.

Or are you just content letting your paranoid imagination run wild--they're coming to get us, overwhelm us, out-number us, out-vote us, etc.

By the way, who is "us" in those scenarios? If "they" are Latino/a immigrants, I guess "us" is what--white Americans? White Americans having the good sense, of course, to vote Republican? It is those (darker) "others" ("them") who vote Democratic? Is that how it works?

Kate

    Bookmark   March 18, 2012 at 1:16PM
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ohiomom

A black worker is more likely to belong to a union than a white worker. Look it up.

.....and do you know why Nik ??

Once upon a time and long ago the private (trade) unions blocked minorities and females from "gettin their foot in the door", so many, especially black people, went to work in the union public sector jobs.

Well lo and friggin behold the "private" union guys jobs went to SEAsia.

Ah well for every action there is a reaction....

    Bookmark   March 18, 2012 at 1:37PM
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ohiomom

Meant to add that this occurred after the white folks allowed the black folks to actually be citizens with the full rights of citizens ... (civil rights) ... and that opened the door for blacks to get public sector jobs that used to be reserved for "whites only", and males at that. Discrimination was still going on in the private sector :) Course we all know that no one discriminates and/or stereotypes anymore.

Peace

    Bookmark   March 18, 2012 at 1:40PM
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nancy_in_venice_ca Sunset 24 z10

The GOP has finally become the undisputed home of the white working class. So much so that some Democrat strategists urged the party to shift their focus to recruiting new voters, rather than wasting resources on the masses of white working class voters lost to the party over the years.

Not 'undisputed' given the actions I see in California by members of the working class, just not the GOP-type of working class -- such as women. And why do you think that the GOP has failed to attract working people of color?

There's no disputing that the GOP has given up on minority voters - heck, vilifying them is a constant - and, unfortunately for the GOP, minority voters reflect the growing minority demographics across the country. I admire the working-class women of color who knock at my door doing election canvassing. If you were to ask them, they would tell you that the GOP does not welcome them in any manner.

I would not discount how much social conservatism influences the party affiliation of the white working class.

    Bookmark   March 18, 2012 at 1:55PM
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jodik_gw

"There's no disputing that the GOP has given up on minority voters - heck, vilifying them is a constant..."

Every day, or so it seems, a new bill is written that further vilifies anyone that doesn't fit into the very small, narrow, white, moral view of the GOP... and it will be their undoing.

The GOP has been living on borrowed time for a while, now, anyway...

    Bookmark   March 19, 2012 at 2:31PM
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adoptedbyhounds

Not 'undisputed' given the actions I see in California by members of the working class, just not the GOP-type of working class -- such as women.

Dispute to your heart's content, Nancy. One must understand how Democrat operatives looking at the national landscape are defining "white working class" to understand what these operatives say has been lost. The posted articles clearly state there is a white cohort of women remaining with Democrats. If that's what you feel compelled to do, you are free to dispute the Democrats whose works you cited.

"Once upon a time and long ago the private (trade) unions blocked minorities and females from "gettin their foot in the door", so many, especially black people, went to work in the union public sector jobs."

Thanks! Helpful information for folks who respond to the Democrat loss of the white working class with the wide eyed incredulity and "You mean like the unionistas? Or do they no longer qualify as "working class" in your parallel universe?"

"I admire the working-class women of color who knock at my door doing election canvassing.

How could you not??? They're American citizens trying to do what they think is best for their country and their families. They're sisters, aunts, moms and grandmas all worried about loved ones serving in the military, or worried about the kids in their lives keeping up their grades in school. They're working overtime to keep kids they love away from predatory drug dealers and gang-bangers. These women are trying to come up with the money for kids to participate in sports.*** They're in church on Sundays with them, praying they have a brighter future ahead. We need more Americans, men and women, willing to work that hard!

***If you live in a community where there is a cost to families for kids to participate in sports, please consider doing what I do. Make a donation out of your own pocket, so everybody gets to play.

"Evidence? You keep making these wild charges based on NO EVIDENCE!"

Right! There is no evidence at all! Your party and your DOJ aren't stripping states of their rights to run clean elections! Lying, cheating and fraud are unknown in our elections. The "honor system" protects the ballot box like nothing else can!

Of course, to believe that line of propaganda, we have to ignore what our government does when it WANTS to keep people honest. It calls for backup. One critical function of agencies like the FBI, CIA, EPA, IRS, DOJ, TSA, DHS and the other agencies protecting us is to DETECT FRAUD and to PUNISH NON-COMPLIANCE.

In a nutshell, our federal government agencies reserve for themselves the right to "trust but verify" because it's effective. People cheat, lie, steal and commit fraud. Government knows, as does everyone else, that the risk of detection under the honor system is nil. You get to vote and nobody knows who you are.

Nevertheless, the DOJ has begun stripping states of their right to use "trust but verify." And that's the idea. Take away the means of detection, and Democrats are home free.

Can't wait for the oral arguments before the SCOTUS. Wonder how many of them are OK with with the DOJ is doing.

    Bookmark   March 19, 2012 at 3:43PM
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nancy_in_venice_ca Sunset 24 z10

Nik, maybe you should study California's 2010 state-wide election results and the analysis of voting blocs. In areas with a diverse population, the GOP may be headed for hard times with the voters. And if those diverse populations are in states rich in electoral college votes...

I don't understand why you would be proud of a political party that is unable to attract minorities, and whose policies have restricted its appeal to older white males.

    Bookmark   March 19, 2012 at 4:26PM
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heri_cles

I don't understand why you would be proud of a political party that is unable to attract minorities, and whose policies have restricted its appeal to older white males.

If Obama were white, he would win in a landslide, because he has done a very good job as President, especially given the immense challenges he faced up to saving the country from Depression, saving the suto industry, making solid calls on foreign policy issues, and all the while facing an unprecedented level of anger and opposition from the GOP.

Meanwhile, why in taroilnation would "ANY "middle class working person" that has been stung by the BushCrash EVER vote for the One percent solution, the Mittster?
What is he going to do to help the middle class?
Help Repeal the Aff HC Act and Planned parenthood?
Lower taxes on the 1% while raining taxes on the lower to middle classes?

    Bookmark   March 19, 2012 at 5:16PM
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marquest(z5 PA)

heri_cles, you forgot killed Osama bin Laden. After Bush started a war on the story of going after bin Laden, then it was WMD that did not exist and never accomplish either mission. He even said he was no longer interested in finding Osama bin Laden.

Finding the man responsible for planning the killing of Americans no longer interested him. Really? My cousin died in the attack. But he did not care.

Yes it is color that the GOP have problems with and many others. But since they are so religious they will have to face that problem on their judgement day. It will be an eternity of payment for them.

    Bookmark   March 19, 2012 at 7:02PM
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adoptedbyhounds

"Nik, maybe you should study California's 2010 state-wide election results and the analysis of voting blocs. In areas with a diverse population, the GOP may be headed for hard times with the voters. And if those diverse populations are in states rich in electoral college votes..."

Why? The information you and I each linked was created by and for Democrats. I couldn't care less if you agree with it or not, nor do I care what analysis you DO agree with. If it makes sense to you, run with it.

Diverse populations rich with electoral votes?

Ha ha ha ha ha! You mean TEXAS??? Can't wait for the SCOTUS to decide if it's OK for the DOJ to keep Texans in the dark about who votes in their elections.

    Bookmark   March 19, 2012 at 7:31PM
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maddie_athome

What a load of BS.

The Republicans clearly run on an anti-people platform. And not a week goes by without yet another violent rant / insane bill / measure, be it "hunting down darkeys" in Alabama, wanting to smash in transgender people's teeth in Tennessee, suggesting the shooting of Democratic Senators etc etc.

Awesome tactics. Keep it up!

    Bookmark   March 19, 2012 at 7:40PM
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adoptedbyhounds

"And not a week goes by without yet another violent rant / insane bill / measure, be it "hunting down darkeys"..."

My grandchildren are of mixed race, with heritage from every continent on the planet. It is progressives drunk on their own self-righteousness, spewing the racist filth you just did without a second thought, who keep me awake at night.

    Bookmark   March 21, 2012 at 2:40PM
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elvis

Yeah, Maddie. Really! Our family is Chicano, white, Chinese and Japanese. I take offense to your attitude. Keep it to yourself, please.

    Bookmark   March 21, 2012 at 2:48PM
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rob333

maddie,

C'mon. Don't put down Southerners. Be fair and right. Violence happens everywhere. None of it is right. But it's not because of locale. Aaron Webster was beaten to death by a group of youths in Canada. But I don't think Canadians are backwards or "regressive" or that all Canadians think like they do. So please lay off the whole backwards Southern thing. Please?!

Here is a link that might be useful: Aaron's story

    Bookmark   March 21, 2012 at 3:02PM
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maddie_athome

Those with zero credibility don't get to lecture anyone on anything whatsoever. In fact, I don't give a rat's shiny behind. [not you, Rob!]

________________________________________________________________________

Rob--I know that. The regressive mindset is a global problem. Pure coincidence 2 out of my 3 examples are tied to the south of the US. I'll make sure to be more balanced next time (really!).

    Bookmark   March 21, 2012 at 3:31PM
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demifloyd(8)

Puleeze! Rob, there's a bridge for sale....;)

    Bookmark   March 21, 2012 at 4:18PM
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jodik_gw

I'm bi-racial, and I know exactly what Maddie meant. I didn't take offense at all... because I see what's going on in the world... and Maddie, at least, has the fortitude to tell the truth, no sugar coating... unlike many others.

    Bookmark   March 21, 2012 at 5:33PM
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adoptedbyhounds

"Those with zero credibility don't get to lecture anyone on anything whatsoever.

ROTFLMAO!!!

    Bookmark   March 22, 2012 at 9:44AM
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dublinbay z6 (KS)

Let's see--Maddie suggests that there are some racist attitudes in Alabama, and conservative posters jump on Maddie claiming that makes Maddie racist? Huh?

Hey, folks, that makes no sense. You're talking in circles.

Kate

    Bookmark   March 22, 2012 at 9:58AM
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demifloyd(8)

NO, that's not what's funny Kate.

What's funny is Maddie deigning to use the word "credibility."

:)

    Bookmark   March 22, 2012 at 3:10PM
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elvis

That was directed at Nik? And I thought it was for me. Rats. I was thinking (really hoping) Maddie was saying I am incredible.

Either way, those were harsh words: "...Republicans clearly run on an anti-people platform...not a week goes by without yet another violent rant/insane bill/measure, be it hunting down darkeys in Alabama," etc.

Why would anyone run on an anti-people platform? Doesn't make sense. Are you saying that all Republicans engage in this sort of behavior on a weekly basis, or that every week one or several Republicans is exposed for having done these acts, or wanting to do these acts?

What ARE you saying with that post, Maddie?

    Bookmark   March 22, 2012 at 3:37PM
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maddie_athome

Kate & Jodi--ignore the kindergarten.

    Bookmark   March 22, 2012 at 4:21PM
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jodik_gw

When has Maddie NOT shown her information to be credible, from credible sources? If anyone can find a thread in which she throws down what amounts to fallacious information, I'd be interested in seeing it... and that does not include opinion. We're talking facts... credible facts.

If there's any questionable credibility, I think most folks reading know exactly where it emanates from.

It's too bad a thread can't go by without having to have what amounts to a huge rotting red herring dropped right in the middle of everything.

This thread is not about Maddie, or her credibility in the first place... let's get back the OP, shall we?

    Bookmark   March 22, 2012 at 4:26PM
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jerzeegirl(9)

"And not a week goes by without yet another violent rant / insane bill / measure, be it "hunting down darkeys"..."

My grandchildren are of mixed race, with heritage from every continent on the planet. It is progressives drunk on their own self-righteousness, spewing the racist filth you just did without a second thought, who keep me awake at night.

Either you can't read, nik, or you have a sick mind. Note the quotation marks that maddie used. That means that she didn't actually say those words; she is conveying that someone else used them. You know, if you can't even quote someone else's racial remarks in order to bring them to light in a discussion about racism without being accused of being a racist, then how are people supposed to get beyond racial divisiveness? Shutting down the discussion by calling names guarantees we will not get anywhere.

    Bookmark   March 22, 2012 at 5:57PM
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inkognito

I was thinking of saying something like that jerzeegirl, you saved me the trouble.

    Bookmark   March 22, 2012 at 6:08PM
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paulines(New England)

Just how many times and on how many threads is jodik going to inform everyone that she is bi-racial...like that gives her super powers or special insight.

If truth be told (and while credibility is at issue), she informed us on another thread that she was 8 or 10% mixed, maybe. Give me a break.

    Bookmark   March 22, 2012 at 6:46PM
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adoptedbyhounds

"Note the quotation marks that maddie used. That means that she didn't actually say those words; she is conveying that someone else used them."

Nonsense. Maddie wasn't "quoting" anyone, and made no effort at attribution. Maddie chose those appalling words all by herself, and deserves every bit of "recognition" she gets for using them.

Gratuitously spewing ugly language, while showing no awareness of the pain such historically demeaning words inflict on people of color (and those who care about them) is not the conduct of thoughtful adults. It is, however, common behavior for bullies of all ages. Including grown-up women who manage to reach adulthood without knowing any better.

    Bookmark   March 22, 2012 at 7:15PM
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maddie_athome

Again, ignore the kindergarten. They are a complete waste of our time. We have better things to do.

    Bookmark   March 22, 2012 at 7:35PM
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demifloyd(8)

Gee, I'm biracial.
My great grandmother was a full blooded Cherokee Indian.

Am I special? I know I have special powers!

    Bookmark   March 22, 2012 at 7:37PM
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paulines(New England)

So waddle outta here then, maddie. Bye, bye!

    Bookmark   March 22, 2012 at 7:40PM
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paulines(New England)

You are very special Demi...and you don't even have to fib about your heritage for one to appreciate that!

    Bookmark   March 22, 2012 at 7:54PM
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jerzeegirl(9)

so now we know, it's not the former; it's the latter.

    Bookmark   March 22, 2012 at 7:58PM
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jodik_gw

As many times as it pertains to the discussion, paulines... and more to the point, as many times as I choose to. A better question to ask is... why does it bother you so much?

Both my parents are dead, so I'm entitled to post at will on a public forum without expectation of scolding. Get over it.

I'm black and white... wanna hear it again?

    Bookmark   March 22, 2012 at 8:35PM
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elvis

Whew, cat fight!

Wasn't the OP basically a statement that the GOP was interested in disenfranchising (would-be) Democratic voters due to a decline in the numbers of white people voting Republican? That's what I gleaned from the somewhat cumbersome statement--maybe I got it wrong. Anyway, so jodik is partly black and partly white, some of the rest of us have various combinations of various races/ethnicities within ourselves and/or our families. Fine. Now what?

    Bookmark   March 22, 2012 at 11:06PM
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demifloyd(8)

That's right, it means nothing.;)

    Bookmark   March 23, 2012 at 12:02AM
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dublinbay z6 (KS)

I assume Paulines and demi meant to scold their pal Nik for making bi-racial comments also--or do they just disapprove when it is Democrats making them, but not one of their own?

What? You don't remember what started this latest squabble? Well, here it is--a direct quote of Nik's bi-racial statement:

My grandchildren are of mixed race, with heritage from every continent on the planet. It is progressives drunk on their own self-righteousness, spewing the racist filth you just did without a second thought, who keep me awake at night.

Guess you better "waddle" out of here, Nik. Paulines can't stand people like you who bring up things bi-racial. As demi just pointed out, "it means nothing" that your grandkids are bi-racial and in fact she will probably start mocking your attitude now that I've drawn her attention to the fact that you played the bi-racial card just like she thinks jodi and maddie did.

Watch out, Nik--pauline and demi will be after you--if they have any consistency and integrity, that is.

Kate

    Bookmark   March 23, 2012 at 4:57AM
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paulines(New England)

Since credibility has been brought up and heaped upon by jodik, I'll answer my own question. Jodik has posted about being bi-racial in probably over 20 threads in recent history...tell me I'm lying.

I've seen pictures of jodik, both on a thread here and her 'dog' website and she presents herself as a *very* white woman with no indications of mixed heritage whatsoever. She was raised by white parents in a 'white' setting and admits to being MAYBE 8 or 10% mixed (her words if I recall correctly). She is right; *technically* she is or may be bi-racial, but so are many, many others, including Demi and myself - we don't use the word as a pass card for expert status on issues involving race.

Therein lies my objection.

Kate, what the heck are you talking about? To say that I can't stand when people bring up things bi-racial, lol? Nothing could be further from the truth. I just can't stand posers. And people (at least the ones I know), who present as being bi-racial and live with legitimate life issues due to others' perception of them, don't like wannabees either.

    Bookmark   March 23, 2012 at 6:15AM
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dublinbay z6 (KS)

Paulines, we are so sick of your personal aversion for Jodik. We really don't care about any of that. You are a bully.

So report me! I don't care. Your personal feud with Jodik belongs out on the junior high school yard and I heartily wish you'd take it out there. I really cannot stand your self-righteousness.

There--another personal feud on this forum. Just great. I'm outta here.

Kate

    Bookmark   March 23, 2012 at 6:21AM
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adoptedbyhounds

"Guess you better "waddle" out of here, Nik. Paulines can't stand people like you who bring up things bi-racial."

Kate, My grandchildren are of mixed race, with heritage from every continent on the planet. They are not "bi-racial." I suggest you look up the term so you know what it means before you try using it again.

    Bookmark   March 23, 2012 at 7:46AM
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jerzeegirl(9)

I've seen pictures of jodik, both on a thread here and her 'dog' website and she presents herself as a *very* white woman with no indications of mixed heritage whatsoever.

What you are saying then paulines is that you judge people by the color of their skin.

    Bookmark   March 23, 2012 at 7:53AM
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elvis

Like when you see a picture of Eddie Murphy and say he is black?

Pauline did not "judge" Jodik, she said she presented as white. She looks white.

    Bookmark   March 23, 2012 at 11:57AM
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jerzeegirl(9)

Yes, she did. Because jodi says she is biracial and paulines is trying to cast doubt on that by saying she looks white.

    Bookmark   March 23, 2012 at 11:59AM
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elvis

What??!

How could you know that? C'mon.

    Bookmark   March 23, 2012 at 12:22PM
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marquest(z5 PA)

I am laughing so hard this is so funny and yet it is sad. What should jodik do every time she post a pic she should have a sign like a mug shot in bold letters "I am bi-racial #1100" so she does not fool people like you? Everyone must know so they can put her in a category of being bi-racial. They will get angry because she fooled them. LOL This is too funny. You actually sound upset that you were fooled. That is sad. People like that should do some serious soul searching.

I've seen pictures of jodik, both on a thread here and her 'dog' website and she presents herself as a *very* white woman with no indications of mixed heritage whatsoever.

How do they present this to you? Are they dark enough that they do not fool you so you are alright with them because they did not fool you? You may not be aware of this but....you have a racial problem.
And people (at least the ones I know), who present as being bi-racial and live with legitimate life issues due to others' perception of them, don't like wannabees either.

    Bookmark   March 23, 2012 at 1:22PM
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jodik_gw

Paulines, you see how appearances can be deceiving? That's probably why people say you should never judge a book by its cover.

But you, somehow, can deduce my exact heritage just by looking at an old photograph? That's absolutely incredible! How did you do that? Are you psychic? Do you possess abilities we are not aware of, that are beyond normal human comprehension?

The only people who can identify me as bi-racial are our black friends, male and female... plus all the information I have about my own background, health history, and other documents, which are plenty.

The only part you're right about is that I WAS raised by a white family. What can that mean? That I was fooled?

That's correct... I do present as quite light skinned. And if you knew anything about genetic inheritance, whatsoever, paulines, you'd know that doesn't mean a damn thing. And with that, I would have to pronounce your psychic abilities null and void.

You also know that blond hair comes in a bottle, right? You should... I've mentioned that plenty of times, as well. But you can go to any retail store of your choosing and check it out, so you don't think you've been fooled about that, too. Should we wait while you do that, or would it help if I produced a direct link to the store I get my hair products at?

If you ever meet me in person, you will notice several traits that give away half my DNA so obviously it would hit you between the eyes like a stone... though since we'll never meet, it's not relevant.

I didn't choose placement in a white world, but I can tell you this... if my skin were any different, my entire life would have been much different... mostly due to the ignorance floating about this incredibly discriminatory, prejudiced world we live in. I consider myself lucky.

Would you like me to wait while you research genetic inheritance? Or should we just say right now that I do not have to justify or defend my DNA, nor my posted comments on a public message board regarding such a topic, to you?

And furthermore, I shall mention it whenever it fits into the conversation. And just as with THIS thread, I imagine that's the moment you'll make your first appearance. What do you suppose THAT means?

You can't fool me.

    Bookmark   March 23, 2012 at 2:34PM
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mylab123(z5NW)

Pauline, you are so negatively focused with every facet of every comment Jodi has to contribute to this forum - you realize how odd it comes across, don't you? It's the one sidedness of the situation that I get so uncomfortable over when reading what it is you have to say. It happens far too frequently for it to be labeled simply a common forum longer term disagreement between two people.

I can remember a time when you stated that you were done tracking her comments and jumping on them as you considered such behavior to be so "high school". Did you change your mind or is it that you simply can't seem to stop yourself?

You follow Jodi around like a poorly trained pit bull straining at the leash, ignoring anything and everything around you but that one highly concentrated focus. This is how you come across.

Please participate and contribute while ignoring Jodi - please, Pauline - your blood pressure is surely suffering from the stress you place yourself under when hunting down Jodi's responses and working yourself up so over them.

You must realize that this negative focus and reaction of yours over so much of what she says is unhealthy and the accompanying behavior is worrisome - it's making too many forum members very uncomfortable. It's over the top.

Without trying to search back to track the beginning of your obsession regarding Jodi and her comments on this board, I know for certain that it's gone on for WELL over a year. Do you even realize that? Well over a year.

That is a prolonged negative tracking and reacting to Jodi's comments, it strikes me as more than simple disagreement with a forum member during a political discussions in this forum.

It's become a real concern to me and, I'm sure, to a majority of members on this board.

Please stop.

    Bookmark   March 23, 2012 at 2:34PM
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chase_gw

Agree Mylab, Paulines preoccupation with Jodi is becoming a concern to me too. It's just seems like such an unhealthy obsession with another poster. Very weird....

    Bookmark   March 23, 2012 at 2:47PM
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sweeby

I remember it from the last presidential election cycle, which makes it more than four years old...

    Bookmark   March 23, 2012 at 7:05PM
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mrskjun(9)

well now I'm confused..btw sweeby, thank you for helping me understand that on the other thread. According to the other thread jodik has said she is 8 to 10% of another race? According to the definition of biracial it is 50/50. Not beating a dead horse but which would it be?

    Bookmark   March 23, 2012 at 10:00PM
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jillinnj

more than four years old

Wow. Very disturbing.

    Bookmark   March 23, 2012 at 10:01PM
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jodik_gw

Oh, good grief... figure it out on your own.

    Bookmark   March 24, 2012 at 12:27AM
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nancy_in_venice_ca Sunset 24 z10

According to the definition of biracial it is 50/50.

One of the definitions of biracial means having parents of two different races. The most common definition that I've seen is 'of two races' without any assignment of percentage values.

    Bookmark   March 24, 2012 at 12:53AM
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epiphyticlvr

According to the definition of biracial it is 50/50. Not beating a dead horse but which would it be?

No definition stipulates percentages. A quick search shows that none of the dictionaries or reference books/sites make that stipulation. No percentages are cited.
Bi (two) racial (races). Simple.

bi�ra�cial (b -r sh l)
adj.
1. Of, for, or consisting of members of two races.
2. Having parents of two different races.
________________________________________
The American Heritage� Dictionary of the English Language

From Wiki: The terms multiracial and mixed-race describe people whose ancestries come from multiple races. Unlike the term biracial, which often is only used to refer to having parents or grandparents of two different races, the term multiracial may encompass biracial people but can also include people with more than two races in their heritage, or also may refer to the origin of more generationally distant genetic admixtures of more than one race in a person's DNA.

.

    Bookmark   March 24, 2012 at 1:06AM
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mrskjun(9)

hmmm having parents of two different races doesn't mean one is one half of one race and one half of another. Explain that fuzzy math?

    Bookmark   March 24, 2012 at 5:05AM
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demifloyd(8)

There is a very fine point which is being ignored, and that is the definition of "consisting of members of two races" and the definition of "having parents of two different races."

At what point is someone considered not a "race" depending on how "pure" the race is maintained?

10% black?
90 white?

A parent that is white (with 10% black heritage) and a parent that is black (with a 30% white heritage)--can each be labeled "black" or "white" because of their physical appearance and their ability to "pass" as one or the other, or the choice to proclaim their race which could go either way. Years ago there were laws that defined this, but they are no longer operative.

What's the big deal?

I certainly don't go around announcing multiple times that I'm "Caucasian" or "part Native American."

Most people don't.

    Bookmark   March 24, 2012 at 10:02AM
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elvis

Why not call this "multi-racial" and call it a day?

    Bookmark   March 24, 2012 at 10:18AM
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woodnymph2_gw

Cyber-bullying. And yes, it seems to be an obsession.

    Bookmark   March 24, 2012 at 10:24AM
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Circus Peanut

Can it be a bit irritating when someone continually proclaims their ethnic identity on a message board? Sure, but no more so than folks who feel the need to announce daily that they're in a higher tax bracket than most.

    Bookmark   March 24, 2012 at 10:32AM
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woodnymph2_gw

circus, touche! LOL.

    Bookmark   March 24, 2012 at 10:35AM
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maddie_athome

Cyber-bullying. And yes, it seems to be an obsession.

Definitely. It also is a serious issue in court, hefty fines and all.

_____________________________________________________________________

Want to know why the Republicans are the "white like me" Regressive Party? Read their comments here. Point proven.

    Bookmark   March 24, 2012 at 10:36AM
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eggshellfinish(5)

I believe the reason Santorum is so hot on home-schooling is because the work will fall to the woman in the house (natch!) while tidily keeping her out of the workforce, preventing her from contributing to the GDP.

    Bookmark   March 24, 2012 at 10:43AM
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demifloyd(8)

I don't know of anyone who has announced "daily" that they're in a higher tax bracket than most.

Feel free to search and compare the number of times posters have mentioned these and then get back to me on the allegation of "daily" mentioning a high tax bracket:

Higher Tax Bracket
Gay Marriage
Human Rights Not Recognized
Equal Rights Not Recognized
Insurance Company Cheated Me
Capitals Gains Not Taxed Enough
Life Isn't Fair
Personal Responsibility
Haters
Fl***ers
Projection
Deflection
They Have No Right
Snort

Etc.

    Bookmark   March 24, 2012 at 10:43AM
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chase_gw

No, it's that they pay more taxes than most.....;)

    Bookmark   March 24, 2012 at 12:44PM
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sweeby

Tell the twin girls in this photo that they're not bi-racial because their parents have the same ethnic background.

Should the little girl who looks white define herself that way? And the little girl who looks black define herself that way? How very much more appropriate for each to be, as their parents are, bi-racial.

    Bookmark   March 24, 2012 at 11:22PM
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elvis

What little darlings!

    Bookmark   March 24, 2012 at 11:25PM
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lily316(z5PA)

OMG..are they ever adorable.

    Bookmark   March 25, 2012 at 1:31AM
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marquest(z5 PA)

They are sooo cute. They make you smile. You should enter that in a contest.

    Bookmark   March 25, 2012 at 8:15AM
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maddie_athome

The nerve of some here. What makes them think they get to define this. 3 fifths, anyone?

___________________________________________________________________

Sums them up pretty good.

Here is a link that might be useful: White-Like-Me Indeed.

    Bookmark   March 25, 2012 at 9:42AM
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jodik_gw

Revealing, indeed, Maddie... all too revealing. Through context and comprehension we can extrapolate that there's still quite the idea alive that white should be not only the predominant race, but the only race. How ill does one need to be mentally to belong to that sort of subculture, I wonder...

    Bookmark   March 25, 2012 at 10:03AM
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elvis

Excuse me. Sums up who?

    Bookmark   March 25, 2012 at 10:03AM
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ohiomom

....well maybe they will "solve their little problem" with the Latinos the way they did with those "black folks" they are talking bout'. Lock em' up !!

The reason more black people are incarcerated than whites is not because they are "badder" it is because they are perceived as a threat to the white way of life and they are no longer needed (free labor).

Anyone who believe the justice system is "just", is probly' part of the problem in this country.

1/2 penny

    Bookmark   March 25, 2012 at 10:14AM
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jodik_gw

Exactly, Ohiomom. True justice is hard to come by these days...

    Bookmark   March 25, 2012 at 10:22AM
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adoptedbyhounds

Beautiful family!

"Should the little girl who looks white define herself that way? And the little girl who looks black define herself that way? How very much more appropriate for each to be, as their parents are, bi-racial."

Isn't it their call?

    Bookmark   March 25, 2012 at 10:57AM
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chase_gw

Bingo Nik! How one identifies themselves is personal and totally their call.

    Bookmark   March 25, 2012 at 11:02AM
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maddie_athome

....well maybe they will "solve their little problem" with the Latinos the way they did with those "black folks" they are talking bout'. Lock em' up !!

Kill them as you please. You can get away with it again these days.

The last paragraph of this email illustrates their real stance. They're running on an anti-people platform, thus no thinking, decent human, regardless what race, has any business voting for them.

On a sidenote--shouldn't that read ...after the civil war?

    Bookmark   March 25, 2012 at 11:29AM
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sweeby

On the 'Is it Fair' thread, I explained my premise that there's an internal perception of race and an external perception of race.

The internal perception is absolutely and unequivocally the girls' to define. It's how they see themselves, after all.

The external perception however, is not theirs to manage -- it's what strangers project onto them based on the very limited information their appearance provides.

In this case, if each girl were seen alone, it would most likely be that the one girl is white and that the other is black -- which I'm suggesting is likely not how the girls will see themselves...

    Bookmark   March 25, 2012 at 11:56AM
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adoptedbyhounds

"The reason more black people are incarcerated than whites is not because they are "badder" it is because they are perceived as a threat to the white way of life and they are no longer needed (free labor)."

That's why blacks are the most likely victims of other blacks?

"The external perception however, is not theirs to manage..."

The question was how "should" they identify. Not what others might choose "project" onto them.

The larger society has a duty to give a universal thumbs down to bigots who mock folks for their physical traits. Whether they're children of mixed racial/ethnic heritage, or old white guys (who may well have far more genetic diversity than the democrats who mock them believe) it's not OK to demean folks based upon their physical appearance. Smart as they are, liberals still speak of "old white guys" with the full-blown disdain of practiced bigots. Which speaks more about them, than about the targets of their ongoing attacks.

    Bookmark   March 25, 2012 at 1:36PM
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jodik_gw

Hopefully, those adorable little girls will grow up knowing they have self worth that goes way deeper than their exteriors, and they won't care so much about the disapproval some will utter along the way. They won't see their differences, but rather their similarities, and their bond will be without a color divider.

It's only one picture in the mountain of evidence on the amazing workings of genetics, but I hope it shows, at the very least, that what your eyes see is not always what is there.

Along the same lines, but only as an example... when looking to purchase a purebred pup, be sure to look beyond those "parents on premises", to get a better idea of the single pup's future. Grandparents, other siblings from the same breeding - different litter, cousins, other relatives... combined, it will give you a much clearer picture of what to expect.

The workings of genetics are fascinating in the spectrum of possibilities... from 100% of maternal DNA, to 100% of paternal DNA, and the millions of possible combinations in between. Fascinating!

It's precisely why you can't accurately judge a book by its cover!

    Bookmark   March 26, 2012 at 12:32PM
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adoptedbyhounds

"They won't see their differences, but rather their similarities, and their bond will be without a color divider."

I would hope they grow up to see themselves as unique individuals, celebrating both their differences and their similarities.

I don't have to tell anyone here that the "faces" of our country are changing. From the shopping mall, to the McDonald's to the preschool my grandchildren attend, I see so many "combinations," all beautiful and interesting. Quite a change from the days when I picked my older son from school. Not nearly the diversity then as there is now.

My new DIL was born in Thailand, so I expect to have more stunningly beautiful grandchildren in the future. None of them "white" but all of them 100% American and proud of it.

Here's a link for creating "new" faces for those who don't spend enough time on the computer as it is. I read somewhere that some research shows a "preference" for faces that are a "combination." (Probably not true for all cultures, though.)

Here is a link that might be useful: face research

    Bookmark   March 27, 2012 at 9:40AM
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