Pagoda dogwood ('Golden Shadows' vs. 'Argentea') in New England??

ctlady_gw(z6 CT)March 25, 2012

Does anyone have experience with either of these two Pagoda dogwood cultivars in New England? Broken Arrow has both and we like the general descriptions of both, but it seems that 'Golden Shadows,' at least, is quite a new variety so there's not a lot of information on (or experience with) it. Just wondering if anyone has grown it or 'Argentea'?

(Also posted this to the tree forum...)

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Hi! Sorry, I can't answer your question but I have to say that I made a trip to Broken Arrow yesterday for the first time. They aren't quite open yet but I was able to buy a RedBud Ruby Falls (which is the weeping Forest Pansy). What a great nursery! The gentleman that helped me (Chris) seemed very knowledgable. Awesome place! I can't wait for them to be open for the season.

    Bookmark   March 26, 2012 at 9:35AM
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ctlady_gw(z6 CT)

Yes, it is a fabulous nursery - they have an amazing magnolia collection (I think considered the best on the East Coast) I think they open April 1? I'm now moving on to the idea of either a small magnolia (which I take it the deer don't like) or one of the really interesting smaller Japanese maples (which it sounds as if the deer also tend to avoid -- and there are so many striking ones available). I didn't get much feedback on the two dogwoods, and I'm a little nervous about putting in a new cultivar which no one's been growing for long ... but will head to Broken Arrow in April to pick their brains about them since I know they have them. Glad you had good luck there (and before opening day, too! :)

    Bookmark   March 26, 2012 at 10:10AM
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corunum z6 CT(6)

Hi Marty - I planted a 1 or 2 gal. size Golden Shadows in 2008 and it grew well until the deer chomped off its new growth the next winter. Despite me faithfully spraying it, it still is not hardy. Lovely leaf, nice branching, but still no taller than 30". I have a variety of Jap. maples and the deer browse those too, but Deer Off and increased size does help. Trompenburg planted in 2008 has grown 4-5' and Emperor I has widened as well as gained a foot or so in height. Of the smaller trees planted since the pine tree massacre in 2008, nothing has done better than the Styrax Japonicus seedling that George (ego45) gave me at the 2009 swap. It was maybe 30" tall and now, it is 14'and the deer don't touch it. In light of all that, maybe you should ask George, lol, or Andy at BA.

Jane (who also planted artemisia orientalis limelight. oy)

    Bookmark   March 26, 2012 at 10:34AM
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ctlady_gw(z6 CT)

Jane -- thanks! That's helpful (the deer info). This is going directly into a spot where the deer have a long-established route since they've been chomping down the euonymus (HUGE, with trunks a good 6-8" in diameter with we cut them down) every winter for probably decades. So I'm guessing they're going to keep coming whatever I plant. I actually have one of George's styrax in the back... and I think George may have moved and sold his place so I'll have to count on my own for any babies... :)

As for the artemisia...oy is right. (This is a wild guess, but I'm thinking you don't want any more, right? :) If I had a spot I just wanted to FILL IN with its quite attractive foliage, it would be fine. Great, in fact! But it's coming OUT of the garden proper, having more than worn out its welcome.

    Bookmark   March 26, 2012 at 11:28AM
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mad_gallica(zone 5 - eastern New York)

I have one of the Little Girl magnolias (which I have been warned don't stay particularly little) which the deer did a real job on the first two years in the ground. Now it is large enough that the upper part is safe, and the deer no longer destroy it. It is the only deciduous plant I can think of that the deer go after during the winter. Maybe it is because it is pretty far from the house.

    Bookmark   March 26, 2012 at 1:16PM
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On a subject, I had no chance to grow neither one of them....always want...never did. However, if I'd be debating between these two, my explorer's side would chose GS, pragmatic's side would definitely think A... and my collector's side would say BOTH :-))

Re: size of LG magnolia. If you'd keep it as a multistemed shrub, after 10 years you should expect it to be in a range of 12-15' or 15-20' if you want to grow it as a 1-2 trunked tree. Deers excluded:)

Re: "George may have moved and sold his place so I'll have to count on my own for any babies..."
Not so fast, not so fast:))
House is on a market....some plants already found new home at my son's property in Trumbull....some plants are not transplantable, but if you or anyone is interested to take cuttings from my hydrangea collection you are welcome. Now is the time!

If you need anything in particular from my garden, don't hesitate to let me know and I'll see what could be done.

    Bookmark   March 26, 2012 at 8:23PM
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I have 2 'Golden Shadows', bought as little more than liner size (1 quart pot) about 4 years ago. Neither is in an optimal place (somewhat deeper shade and less good soil than might be best), and both have grown some, but not much. The deer haven't bothered them for me, but I don't get a lot of deer feeding in the yard since the woods have lots else for them to eat without worrying about having people around. So I like them, but have read that they are somewhat slow growing for everyone, both GS and Argentea, and that seems to agree with what I observe when comparing them to wild pagoda dogwoods. I have found that the voles seem to particularly like the roots of the wild pagodas that I planted in a large shrub bed. They totally killed one (when I dug it up it had only 3 large roots and 0 small roots for a 10 foot tree,) so if you have a serious vole issue, you might want something else.

    Bookmark   March 26, 2012 at 10:56PM
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paigect(z6a CT)

Wow, George, you are moving? Sorry to hijack, Marty, but I just wanted to say that I have always loved hearing about your property and gardens, and have always appreciated your advice and generosity at plant swaps. Where are you off to, George?

And Marty, I love all of the trees you have mentioned, and always find it difficult to choose a tree. Given the deer issues, I would consider erecting a steel cage around whatever you plant for the first couple of years. :-) But if magnolia is a bit more resistant, I would go that route - - can't go wrong with a magnolia in any case.

    Bookmark   March 27, 2012 at 8:27AM
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