At least someone knows how it feels...

mrskjun(9)March 27, 2013

to be called a racist , when they know they aren't. I don't think anyone could convince me that Rahm Immanuel is a racist, but evidently the teachers union and parents in Chicago think differently. What say you?

Here is a link that might be useful: link

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Factotem

mrskjun wrote,

At least someone knows how it feels...to be called a racist , when they know they aren't. I don't think anyone could convince me that Rahm Immanuel is a racist, but evidently the teachers union and parents in Chicago think differently. What say you?

Can you provide the quote where the teachers' union and parents called Mr. Emmanuel a racist? I have only been able to find a mention that a student organization characterized a school-closings decision as being a racist decision, so that's clearly not what you are referring to.

This post was edited by Factotem on Wed, Mar 27, 13 at 18:59

    Bookmark   March 27, 2013 at 6:58PM
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elvis

Happy to oblige, Mrs, ;-)

Here is a link that might be useful: I Don't See Any Caucasians Being Moved

    Bookmark   March 27, 2013 at 7:14PM
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WxDano(5b-2a-6/7)

What say you?

I say this is a typically leading post with no supporting information.

    Bookmark   March 27, 2013 at 7:22PM
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mrskjun(9)

No supporting information? That is really your answer? LOL

    Bookmark   March 27, 2013 at 7:26PM
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david52 Zone 6

The headlines say racist, but within the articles, not so much.

"As WBBM NewsradioâÂÂs Mike Krauser reports, to hear some tell it on the West Side, Mayor Rahm Emanuel is a racist liar who doesnâÂÂt care about the kids. "

But, alas, they don't identify who the 'some' are.

This post was edited by david52 on Wed, Mar 27, 13 at 19:29

    Bookmark   March 27, 2013 at 7:27PM
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ohiomom

.....protesters said they donâÂÂt buy the mayorâÂÂs claim students will get better educations when they are moved out of buildings with low enrollment.

Okay as someone that has been through this in her own city I will tell you how I feel .... first of all many of these schools were built post WWII and what with white flight (taking the tax base with them) the buildings are just not maintainable. One of our nearby high schools was closed, same reaction, same claims. HUGE school with a student body of only 200 students. Lets just think about this "without emotion", the cost alone of keeping the lights/heat on, water, sewage, repairs. I went to a high school of the same approximate size, there was 897 kids in just our senior class, that does not even count the other two grades.

Who has been in one of these inner city schools lately? Take a tour and get back to me if you would send your child/grandchild to them.

...the district has said the money saved from closing schools will be used to improve the âÂÂwelcoming schoolsâ where students are relocated.

I got some swampland for ya'

    Bookmark   March 27, 2013 at 7:33PM
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david52 Zone 6

It is, however, an interesting situation, where drastic cuts in funding mean that they have to consolidate schools.

And given the horrendous toll on teenagers from gun violence in these same neighborhoods, the parents are understandably leery of any promises by Hiz Honor the Mayor to insure their children's' safety as they now have to go considerably further to reach a school.

Walk a mile in these parents' shoes.

Related, a few years ago they closed one of the Denver high schools because it didn't make the grade. So all the big-wigs on the school board were high-fiving, showing how tough on teachers/ dedicated they were to the students, etc. And some time next school year, someone asked what had happened to the students. Uh........ We'll get back to you. Seems nobody had followed up on that.

    Bookmark   March 27, 2013 at 7:38PM
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WxDano(5b-2a-6/7)

No supporting information? That is really your answer? LOL

What a strange statement. Why wouldn't it be my answer, as some didn't provide specifics? Are some LOLing because they intended to be vague?

See, civil society is expected to question folks who make vague, leading claims without specifying what they are about. That is how civil society works. It is a basic tenet of how public rhetoric functions. For 2500 years

Nonetheless, I LOLz'ed too, because at the time I posted some folks hadn't explained what they meant. Still haven't.

Thanks to Elvis we now know what some are referring to.

As David said, there are some vague claims in the reportage. Sounds just like every other city wrestling with school closures.

Sounds just like what happens in many rust belt cities.
That's what say me.

    Bookmark   March 27, 2013 at 7:42PM
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ohiomom

David there is less funding (taxes) and less population. You just cannot keep open (maintain) these old buildings. Of course no sympathy will be forthcoming for all the school employees that lose their jobs with these moves, not just teachers.

Cleveland's population is like maybe 400K (or less) from a high of 2MIL when I was young. They simply no longer need all these doors open.

    Bookmark   March 27, 2013 at 7:44PM
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david52 Zone 6

Ohiomom, I'm not disagreeing with what they're trying to do - my own county should have consolidated their schools years ago but the powers-that-be refused.

I'm just hoping they can find a way to better protect these kids on a longer school commute.

    Bookmark   March 27, 2013 at 8:45PM
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ohiomom

In all fairness the schools closed here were not just "on one side of town" and yet there was the same "flapping of hands" going on.

No one wants their own little world disturbed, it is supposed to happen "somewhere else".

For every action, there is a reaction.....

    Bookmark   March 27, 2013 at 8:55PM
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Factotem

elvis wrote,

Happy to oblige, Mrs, ;-)

If that was supposed to be responsive to my question, it seems you didn't read it with care. mrskjun posted a link to an article and said the teachers' union and parents called Emmanuel a racist. I couldn't find that in the article so I asked her for the quote.

Can you supply the quote from the article mrskjun posted where the teachers' union and parents called Rahm Emmanuel a racist?

    Bookmark   March 27, 2013 at 9:30PM
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marquest(z5 PA)

They closed many in my city. People are having only 1.0 or less kids anymore.

When my niece and nephew graduated there was 700. Ten years later when my daughter graduated there was 100.

    Bookmark   March 27, 2013 at 10:51PM
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Bothell

Pretty sure this is from a news program that I saw last week & no I'm not finding the link for you, do your own homework. There is no easy answer for this problem. Tax basis have decreased & that means less money for public schools. With old buildings, less students, less money & a demand for fiscal prudence, how does a school district or city resolve this dilemma? Everyone wants their child to have a quality education at their neighborhood school, but that is no longer realistic. I was lucky that I could financially afford to move to a better school district for my daughter, but a lot of people don't have that option. Instead of calling names why not try to work out the best solution given the available resources. Calling the mayor a racist solves nothing and doesn't help your child's education.

    Bookmark   March 28, 2013 at 12:33AM
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tobr24u(z6 RI)

This post is just another effort at union bashing, nothing more, nothing less...

    Bookmark   March 28, 2013 at 5:22AM
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mrskjun(9)

Actually Richard, if you would read the OP, it has nothing to do with unions at all. It is about the perception of racism. It is a derogatory term that is too easily thrown about. As we have seen on this forum. Don't agree with someone's political decisions, they must be a racist. I don't think that any of the hard decisions that Rham has made were ever based on race.

    Bookmark   March 28, 2013 at 7:56AM
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ohiomom

.....or don't agree with someone's political decisions must be a communist, socialists, taker etc.

I don't think politicians make any hard decisions, I think they make decisions based on the next election.

But then I am soooooo

"Cynical in Cleveland"

:)

    Bookmark   March 28, 2013 at 8:58AM
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ninamarie(4Ont.)

I always think it would be much worse to be the victim of racism, rather than called a racist. After all, sticks and stones...

    Bookmark   March 28, 2013 at 9:09AM
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marquest(z5 PA)

Racism is used a lot but it is probably used as a nicer way of saying .....ignorant bigot. They would not want to call someone a dumb closed minded individual.

But that is probably a oxymoron. Oh well whatever.

    Bookmark   March 28, 2013 at 9:25AM
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kwoods(Cold z7 Long Is)

"What say you?"

I would say that this seems very personal. If somebody says something false about me, implies something that I know is untrue... it may sting a bit initially but ultimately I do not care. It does not phase me, impact or affect my behavior because I know my own heart and that is all that matters. Why should I be put in a position of defending myself from stupidity? Worse yet, why should I waste time and energy supporting my defense or lashing out blindly at those I feel "wronged" me?

If I do find myself on the defensive, which I think everyone does every so often, I have to ask myself "why"? Who am I trying to convince? Is it myself? Then it's time for some introspection. But, that's just me.

I don't understand what is going on in Chicago. I do wonder, why is there never a brand new, shiny, "welcoming", magnet school built in an impoverished, predominately black, urban area?

    Bookmark   March 28, 2013 at 10:04AM
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WxDano(5b-2a-6/7)

I do wonder, why is there never a brand new, shiny, "welcoming", magnet school built in an impoverished, predominately black, urban area?

We have a school district around here, richest in the state, 3rd highest performing, and they're spending tons of money on lawyers to support vouchers for private schools. The private schools there are all new smelling, shiny, and the moms drive their precious cargo to private school in new blinged-out SUVs. Oh, there's the little thing about all the private schools in the area being religious schools, but just a tiny detail.

Anyhoo, this closure situation in the OP is in the news fairly often and won't be over any time soon.

    Bookmark   March 28, 2013 at 10:14AM
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david52 Zone 6

Posted by ninamarie 4Ont. (My Page) on Thu, Mar 28, 13 at 9:09
I always think it would be much worse to be the victim of racism, rather than called a racist. After all, sticks and stones...

Posted by kwoods Cold z7 Long Is (My Page) on Thu, Mar 28, 13 at 10:04
- snip - If somebody says something false about me, implies something that I know is untrue... it may sting a bit initially but ultimately I do not care. It does not phase me, impact or affect my behavior because I know my own heart and that is all that matters. Why should I be put in a position of defending myself from stupidity?

sums it up nicely.

WxDano, another aspect of the "voucher" system for high-income, high-academically-performing JefCo schools: private religious schools in sports .....

"High school sports, once viewed as a bastion of wholesomeness, is being transformed into a cutthroat business at the highest levels of play, with teenage athletes the prized assets.

Colorado private schools - notably upstart Valor Christian, in addition to Regis Jesuit and football power Mullen - have catapulted to recent prominence by capitalizing on their ability to attract top athletes from around metro Denver.

Participants, including Valor Christian's former star quarterback Brock Berglund, acknowledge the playing field is no longer level as superior facilities and recruiting tactics replace the luck of the draw that public schools rely on to build their teams.

As frustrated fans watch star players bolt their neighborhood, the competitiveness of the game has changed too, angering rival coaches and leaving those at the highest level of the sport wondering how to deal with the phenomenon.

"We know this is the topic," said Paul Angelico, commissioner of the Colorado High School Activities Association. "It's never not been an issue, but as a few private schools have gotten very successful, the issue has grown."

Chaparral High football coach John Vogt calls the battle between public and private an "arms race" that public schools - like the one he works at in Parker - inevitably lose. "Essentially, it's like playing an all-star team every time you play them," he said.

In the 2010-11 school year, Regis Jesuit won seven state team titles, Mullen won its third consecutive Class 5A football crown amid a 34-game winning streak, and Valor, in just its third year of varsity competition, won its second consecutive football title.

On Saturday afternoon, Valor steamrolled to its third consecutive title, routing Pine Creek, 66-10, in the 4A championship game and setting a scoring record for a championship game.

While the big schools get the most attention, the issue is statewide and at every classification. For instance, the elite eight of 3A boys soccer this fall featured seven private schools.

Here is a link that might be useful: link to article about the sports

    Bookmark   March 28, 2013 at 11:00AM
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haydayhayday

WxDano:

"As David said, there are some vague claims in the reportage. Sounds just like every other city wrestling with school closures.

David:

"The headlines say racist, but within the articles, not so much.

"As WBBM NewsradioâÂÂs Mike Krauser reports, to hear some tell it on the West Side, Mayor Rahm Emanuel is a racist liar who doesnâÂÂt care about the kids. "

But, alas, they don't identify who the 'some' are."

Did you stop reading at that point, David?

The Very Next sentence:

"âÂÂI donâÂÂt see any Caucasians being moved, bussed, or murdered in the streets as they travel along gang lines, or stand on the steps of a CPS school,â said activist Wendy Matil Pearson...."

And further down...

"âÂÂWe will have more gangs, more murders, more killers, and everything,â said CPS student ,Brittany Sanders.

and further down...

"Dwayne Truss, ...

âÂÂWeâÂÂre here to stand up to the bully, a.k.a. Rahm Emanuel, a.k.a. the one-term mayor,â he said.

and...

Valerie Leonard, co-founder of the Lawndale Alliance, accused the mayor of trying to drive African Americans out of the city.

âÂÂHe says that he wants to turn around the city of Chicago, make a new Chicago. Does that new Chicago mean no black folks?â she said.

And...

"âÂÂItâÂÂs a lie!â protesters repeatedly shouted....

And...

"On Thursday, CTU (Chicago Teachers Union) President Karen Lewis said the plan was both âÂÂracistâ and âÂÂclassist,â and she called Emanuel âÂÂthe murder mayor.âÂÂ

âÂÂHe is the murder mayor,â she said, referencing the cityâÂÂs recent problems with gun violence. âÂÂLook at the murder rate in this city. HeâÂÂs murdering schools, heâÂÂs murdering good jobs. HeâÂÂs murdering housing. I donâÂÂt know what else to call him. HeâÂÂs the murder mayor.âÂÂ

Huh? Are you nitpicking or did you stop reading? Did I missing something here?

Hay

    Bookmark   March 28, 2013 at 11:16AM
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haydayhayday

Factotem in other threads...

"If you consider it "vile" to call someone a liar, why don't you call out demifloyd when she does it? A double standard is indicative of no standard at all, just an agenda."

....

"Jodik's list of reasons is indisputably biased and she has not balanced it. That clearly reveals a lack of sincerety (sic....I know you like sic's) in her analysis."

Factotem, would you mind sharing with us just exactly what your agenda is? Why are you so lacking in sincerety (sic)? Do you have any standards at all?

Did you miss David's post?

Am I missing something?

Thanks.

Hay

    Bookmark   March 28, 2013 at 11:17AM
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david52 Zone 6

There is a difference between writing "....to hear some tell it on the West Side, Mayor Rahm Emanuel is a racist liar" with no attribution to any specific person,

and: "Mr. Ed said: 'Emanuel is a racist blah blah '" which is nowhere in either article.

    Bookmark   March 28, 2013 at 11:22AM
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kwoods(Cold z7 Long Is)

My family just recently got caught up in this private v public sports phenomenon. I went to public school. My wife went to public school. We wanted our kids to go to public school. We were committed to our public school. Our public school has not been committed to my kids. When several private schools approached me with offers of "academic" money for my daughter to play basketball...

Several ironies.... 1. my son remains at the public school and is already getting interest from Cal-tech and Carnegie Melon as a sophomore.... no offers of "academic" money for him from the private schools. 2. A large part of the problem I have with our public school is sports related. They cut an academic period out of the day so they could budget the money saved for .... you guessed it! Sports.

My local public school seems to have achieved its objective on its race to mediocrity... where does it go from there?

    Bookmark   March 28, 2013 at 11:23AM
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WxDano(5b-2a-6/7)

David, speaking of rich school sports, Cherry Creek Schools have some of the densest collection of McMansions and blinged SUVs in the state. Elway's kid went to Creek, and the Rockies' new manager came from Creek. No one in that district is talking about closing schools. And I thought it was rich that an Olympic medalist was still competing in meets.

    Bookmark   March 28, 2013 at 11:33AM
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haydayhayday

kwoods:

"If somebody says something false about me, implies something that I know is untrue... it may sting a bit initially but ultimately I do not care."

I think that's easier said than done. On one level, I can appreciate the, "I don't care" attitude, but, a lie repeated over and over and over and over, at some point, will have an effect on how other people view the accused.

Ever hear of Salem, Mass?

HT Welcome Committee.

Hay

    Bookmark   March 28, 2013 at 11:33AM
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haydayhayday

Never heard of Salem?

How about a guy named McCarthy?

His lies didn't really matter?

Hay

    Bookmark   March 28, 2013 at 11:35AM
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haydayhayday

"There is a difference between writing...."

Yes, and that difference is called "nitpicking".

When all else fails.

Hay

    Bookmark   March 28, 2013 at 11:38AM
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kwoods(Cold z7 Long Is)

I think you should consider forming some kind of support group Hay.

    Bookmark   March 28, 2013 at 12:00PM
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marquest(z5 PA)

"I don't care" attitude, but, a lie repeated over and over and over and over, at some point, will have an effect on how other people view the accused.

See a fool one day......Everybody you see is a fool every day. Who is the Fool?

    Bookmark   March 28, 2013 at 12:05PM
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david52 Zone 6

And I thought it was rich that an Olympic medalist was still competing in meets.

Missy Franklin goes to Regis - private Catholic school .... :-)

Hay, slathering: Students Fighting School Closings Tell âÂÂRacistâ Rahm: WeâÂÂll Be Back and School Closing Opponents Call Mayor A Racist Liar when in neither article, is there a direct quote where he's called that, you'd consider that nit picking.

I wouldn't, I'd call it yellow journalism.

    Bookmark   March 28, 2013 at 12:45PM
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patriciae_gw(07)

Lets get back to the OP-I believe the 'racist' aspect of this whole thing has to do with the fact that the eliminated schools are seen as all being black schools which inconveninces and even puts black kids at risk while white schools and white students are not facing these same problems. The point is a valid one. When schools were desegragated back in the day the black kids were the ones who were bussed all over the back and beyond- of course their schools sucked out loud in the first place. Naturally those would be chosen to be closed it being impossible to improve them. In this case We dont know if the school buildings themselves are substandard but if they are then you already had a problem that could be called racist.

What I dont understand here is this latest effort to take the validity out of calling racism racism. There seems to be a lot of energy just lately going into that. Any straw is clutched at. I would think it would be better to err on the other side but I am not a conservative.

    Bookmark   March 28, 2013 at 1:33PM
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Factotem

hayseedman wrote,

Factotem in other threads...
"If you consider it "vile" to call someone a liar, why don't you call out demifloyd when she does it? A double standard is indicative of no standard at all, just an agenda."

....

"Jodik's list of reasons is indisputably biased and she has not balanced it. That clearly reveals a lack of sincerety (sic....I know you like sic's) in her analysis."

Factotem, would you mind sharing with us just exactly what your agenda is?

As you do not know, that indicates any agenda I might have has not been revealed through a lack of sincerity, as have so many others'. Thanks for giving me an opportunity to make that point.

Why are you so lacking in sincerety (sic)?

Plurium Interrogationum fallacy. Logic is not your strong suit, it would seem; but there is quite a lot of that around here so you are in good company. I suspect an element of projection is present here, too, given the degree of disingenuousness you regularly exhibit.

Do you have any standards at all?

Yes.

Did you miss David's post?

No.

Am I missing something?

Oh, yes. But I doubt you can be helped to acquire it here.

Thanks.

You're welcome.

This post was edited by Factotem on Thu, Mar 28, 13 at 15:43

    Bookmark   March 28, 2013 at 3:26PM
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haydayhayday

My goodness, what nonsense you spew out, Factotem.

Here's some names for you, David.

Give you some more things to nitpick.

(I'm glad to see that David has declared the Occupy movement in Chicago is part of the yellow journalism school. I've always had my suspicions, myself).

Dave, you're going to have to be more careful in the future with your postings.

Yellow Journalism 101 Case Studies;

Just for fun, apply your standards to his article from one of your threads.

And, since Factotem is just talking nonsense, maybe you could tell me what she means by:

"A double standard is indicative of no standard at all, just an agenda"

I've had enough fun for the day. Need to do some errands and get ready to go out to my support group:

Beer Lovers Who Love to Dance.

Now, see if I can navigate my way out of here with all these One Way Streets.

Hay

    Bookmark   March 28, 2013 at 4:03PM
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Factotem

hayseedman wrote,

My goodness, what nonsense you spew out, Factotem.

Incisive.

You might want to pick up a book or two on logical reasoning; I might be a hopeless optimist, but I still believe it is a skill that can be learned if there is genuine interest. It can equip you to make reasoned comments rather than having to resort to contentless insults.

    Bookmark   March 28, 2013 at 4:14PM
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haydayhayday

Working my way out here. It's difficult.

"Incisive."

Now you're starting to make sense!!!

Hay

    Bookmark   March 28, 2013 at 4:59PM
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