Why not vote via the internet?

tobr24u(z6 RI)April 17, 2014

It struck me that we do everything else from filing taxes to all sorts of banking so why not vote with our computers? Our Social Security numbers along with a password should do the trick. Your thoughts will not be disparaged, at least by me...

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lionheart_gw

Generally speaking, I don't see why not. It should be a bit more robust than using SSNs and passwords, but it's about time we moved away from the 17th century model.

    Bookmark   April 17, 2014 at 6:15AM
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sleeplessinftwayne(z4-5 IND)

Whoo boy! I'm 70, never broke a law in my life that I know of and even I know how to find or create fake SSNs. The Democrats are fighting their use already. Why do you think it wouldn't be as easily corrupted as what we already have? and what about all those poor people who can't afford to get ID now? How are they gonna afford a Computer?

    Bookmark   April 17, 2014 at 6:40AM
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tobr24u(z6 RI)

Public libraries have computers that could be used at no cost. Your SSN can be used only once with passwords and other security measures in place...

    Bookmark   April 17, 2014 at 6:44AM
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youngquinn_gw

what sort of a system would you need where 100 million people are voting at once? or within 12 hours or so, can you imagine the load? and you cant stagger the voting as then people would know who was winning before it was their turn to vote.

    Bookmark   April 17, 2014 at 7:02AM
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asleep_in_the_garden

Feel sorry for a librarian at a time like that...place would be a madhouse!

    Bookmark   April 17, 2014 at 7:05AM
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Brushworks Spectacular Finishes(5)

and what about all those poor people who can't afford to get ID now? How are they gonna afford a Computer?

It's as simple as the ACA. Taxpayers that have, subsidize those that have not. :)

    Bookmark   April 17, 2014 at 7:07AM
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jlhug

Nope, I've had to deal with too many identity theft issues for people filing tax returns. Just because we don't think about how to get someone else's social security number and other identifying information doesn't mean that others don't.

    Bookmark   April 17, 2014 at 7:10AM
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tobr24u(z6 RI)

The roll out would have to be better than the one for health care, but it can be done and volume can be managed with the capacity increased for processing and storage that we are now seeing...

    Bookmark   April 17, 2014 at 7:22AM
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Brushworks Spectacular Finishes(5)

Richard,

It's as simple as an email seeking to verify that you have received your ACA coverage. Choosing yes or no launches a hidden program that resides on your computer and keeps track of all your logs, banking, etc.

    Bookmark   April 17, 2014 at 7:31AM
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rosie(Deep South, USA 7A/B)

I love the idea. It should absolutely be just that easy and accessible.

But security's a huge issue at this point. We can't risk some person or group deciding who gets control of the Senate, California's state legislature, election of judges around the nation, etc.

Also, it would be all too easy for a losing party to undermine public confidence by claiming the election was stolen. From what I've read, we likely would have no way of auditing and backtracking to verify votes cast.

From verifiedvoting.org: " However, computer and network security experts are virtually unanimous in pointing out that online voting is an exceedingly dangerous threat to the integrity of U.S. elections. There is no way to guarantee that the security, privacy, and transparency requirements for elections can all be met with any practical technology in the foreseeable future."

Speaking of which, what's happening with our electronic voting machines?

Here in Georgia we have electronic voting with no paper and no independently auditable trail, one of 16 states in 2012. Our Georgia Supreme Court has ruled that unauditable voting does not infringe on the citizens' right to vote. Our contract with Diebold previously specifically did not allow the State of Georgia to officially audit their machine count.

Does anyone believe all this came about to protect the integrity of the vote?

How about the other 49 states -- and the thousands of counties which actually run the election process? Some do pretty well protecting their state elections, but Georgia alone could conceivably throw national elections to one party or hand-picked person.

BTW, Diebold has been purchased by Dominion which now owns about 50%, last I heard anyway, of U.S. machine voting. I don't know if Georgia's contract now specifies a right to audit machines used here, and their count, should it choose.

    Bookmark   April 17, 2014 at 7:32AM
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sleeplessinftwayne(z4-5 IND)

There is a big difference between should and could.

    Bookmark   April 17, 2014 at 7:46AM
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chase_gw

There is no reason on earth why voting could not be done via the internet.

Yes there are security issues but that can be dealt with and it doesn't have to be a SIN. Look at the number of States that have mail in voting and no one fusses over security.

The voting can be staggered over several days and the data stored until election day....look at mail in voting.

it would not be the only way of voting ,just one way of voting, so those without a computer can do it the old fashioned way. So could anyone who is worried about security......look at mail in voting.

The only issue would be ensuring people didn't vote twice but that can be dealt with too......look at mail in voting.

it is very doable , would relieve the congestion election day. and increase the numbers who vote
The the GOP won't go for it becasue it means broadening access to voting and they are determined to narrow it.

Here is a link that might be useful: Look at mail in voting

    Bookmark   April 17, 2014 at 7:48AM
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tobr24u(z6 RI)

Yes, and maybe if we had used Al Gore's invention he would have won the election...

    Bookmark   April 17, 2014 at 8:13AM
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Brushworks Spectacular Finishes(5)

For those who do not own a computer, satellite and cable tv can provide a means to vote.

They already log your activity via the set top box. Your PIN number used to rent movies can be your voter login PIN.

Vote for your favorite liars and you accomplish the task on your butt.

    Bookmark   April 17, 2014 at 8:33AM
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tobr24u(z6 RI)

Well, all of the elderly poll workers would probably not like this idea, but that is about the only downside that I see, as here they get a free lunch and reasonable pay for the day...

    Bookmark   April 17, 2014 at 8:47AM
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vgkg(Z-7)

I don't trust the Diebold touchscreens in the voting booth we have now so the internet could be even more hackable. Why not just have all of us dip our pinky in purple ink and be done with it, we seem to think that method works for other untrustworthy nations.....plus make Election Day a Real Holiday for all Americans, 24 hours too, not just 12 hours on a working day. We're idiots.

    Bookmark   April 17, 2014 at 9:31AM
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lionheart_gw

I agree with Chase in that it is probably more secure than absentee ballots, which are extremely vulnerable to being hijacked and forged (as was done here by local politicians).

How do paper ballots prevent fraud? How does going to a polling place prevent fraud? It really doesn't, so we might as well save time and fossil fuels by setting up internet voting.

We could still have "normal" polling places for the luddites and the conspiracy nuts and those who don't have computers, or even those who simply have no clue. I'm ok with that.

    Bookmark   April 17, 2014 at 9:52AM
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demifloyd(8)

It might could work, but I wouldn't support it.

More control can be had over paper ballots.

Also, I think it important that people get out and stand in line, if necessary, and vote.

There is a feeling that comes with taking the time to go to the poll and stand with fellow citizens and cast your ballot that I don't think people would have if they voted at their computer keyboard.

I always think of the sacrifices others have made so that I can vote and appreciate the opportunity to do so.

I don't see that happening with many people if they take a moment from HTs, vote and go back to a post.

    Bookmark   April 17, 2014 at 10:00AM
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Christopher_H

I'm all for it. No internet site is ever hacked, so I'm sure it's 100% safe. Nobody has multiple social security cards either, right? Those documents are never faked!
I'm all for changing the way we vote. I happen to like dipping your finger into a bottle of purple ink that can't come off for 24 hours.

    Bookmark   April 17, 2014 at 10:21AM
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nancy_in_venice_ca Sunset 24 z10

plus make Election Day a Real Holiday for all Americans, 24 hours too, not just 12 hours on a working day

Now you're talking!

I request an absentee ballot via the internet and drop off the ballot at my local polling site. I still have the opportunity to see neighbors, and save the poll workers from flipping through pages of registered voters trying to find my street, and then my name.

I know more and more people that rely on absentee ballots for voting by mail. With crazy hours and long work days, physical disabilities, difficulties with transportation, child care, etc. it offers many advantages over appearing in person.

    Bookmark   April 17, 2014 at 10:52AM
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rosie(Deep South, USA 7A/B)

From the look of it, apparently most feel the typical home computer is so secure from malware, hackers, etc., that they have no worry about using 100 million of them to decide who run our governments and control our military.

Interesting.

In addition to the obvious danger, I'd just like to point out that both SCOTUS's Bush v. Gore decision and the situation I described above in Georgia demonstrate a shocking and profound contempt for the principles of government of the people, BY the people, and for the people. And our passivity in the face of these and other abuses around the country is just invitation to more of the same.

-----------------------

I'm with you, Demi, on the importance of control by backing up the votes with hard documentations--until we finally develop something better. I also really like the special feeling of standing with others who have come out not only to vote but in celebration of the right to vote. That said, those of us who wish could always go do that, we'll always have polling places, and maximizing access to voting is the principle I feel always has to be served first.

Brushworks: "It's as simple as an email seeking to verify that you have received your ACA coverage. Choosing yes or no launches a hidden program that resides on your computer and keeps track of all your logs, banking, etc."

Are you saying this is actually happening? After all, it would be an enormous betrayal of the entire nation and, of course, become THE scandal to beat all scandals.

    Bookmark   April 17, 2014 at 11:01AM
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jlhug

I'm not so sure that the inked finger is such a bad idea. I personally prefer a paper ballot read by a scantron or simiar machine.

Absentee ballots present a problem. A friend who worked in a nursing home told me about workers in the nursing home requesting absentee ballots for the patients and submitting them without the resident's knowledge or vote. She reported it and quit her job. To the best of her knowledge, nothing was ever done about it.

    Bookmark   April 17, 2014 at 11:16AM
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Brushworks Spectacular Finishes(5)

Are you saying this is actually happening?

No. I said it's a simple as that.

How many millions do you think click on an email virus without checking?

    Bookmark   April 17, 2014 at 12:09PM
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Christopher_H

Bush V Gore was not the first, but the fourth time the person who won the popular vote didn't win the Presidency. The most famous was John Quincy Adams in1829. He didn't win the electoral vote either, so the House of Representatives decided. And guess what party was the Majority party? Yes, Adams' party.

Today there would be riots in the streets if the wrong man won in this manner.

As a conservative African American man, I wholly support the idea that somebody must win 50% +1 votes. Bill Clinton never got 50% of the popular vote in either election, but he did use the electoral college to his advantage.

Should we ever have multiple people running, I do not want my President elected with 34% of the vote!

    Bookmark   April 17, 2014 at 12:41PM
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blfenton

Hackers.

The Canadian tax agency was just hacked by a computer science student just for fun. No hidden agenda, nothing, but he did steal close to 1000 social insurance numbers. The agency was shut down for 5 days until he could be tracked down.

I vote for continuing to go to my local school to vote.

    Bookmark   April 17, 2014 at 12:48PM
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mylab123(z5NW)

Ill Bet if those people who waited for so many hours in Florida in order to vote in the last election - along with the other people across the country who faced similar situations - were asked if going to the polling booth specifically as the primary manner in which to vote should be considered part of the whole process preferred in the exercising of our *right* - (which trumps privilege) to vote, they would have some very definite ideas about how or if that in any way enhances or makes more meaningful or patriotic the manner in which they vote.

If all those who are hot topic forum members - each and every one of us, had faced what those poor, determined souls in Florida faced in order to cast out ballots, we would be united in our cries regarding voter interference and the great need for a complete overhaul in how Americans should have the right to exercise their right as unfettered and as easily as we accomplish our banking or our private correspondence or the simple purchase of an item from great big business.
All of us would then agree that they should have easy, unfettered access to exercise their right to vote for the official they feel would best represent all of we, the people if each of us had experienced those lines that some disgraceful counties in Florida did in the last Presidential election. The attempt to make it so difficult did not accomplish the goal - quite the opposite, in fact.
But, it could have - how many voters in those districts listened to the local reporting about that disgrace and decided they simply couldnt face it? As well as other districts around the country who's voters faced the same thing?

Times are now different. We have to find a way which will make the right to vote be exercised without any party or group interest interference, in as much as it is possible.

The polling booth manner has clearly been shown to be willingly and easily compromised in the name of dirty tricks and because of the population explosion, has become cumbersome and a heavy burden on the back of most voters. It would be nice if it can remain available for those who will still prefer that method for the next decade or so, but for everyone else, the option to exercise their right should include a fast, easy and as effort free process as possible in order to cast a vote.

After all, easy, instant and effort free ( as much as possible) is now how good and profitable businesses are run, banking accomplished, communications preferred. Error free, fast accomplishment of goal is how we prefer everything in our lives, preferred by corporations, by countries.

Its certainly past time to find another way which will friendly and easy for all voters, will be party neutral and certainly interference unfriendly. Just ask the good, patriotic voters in those discussed districts of Florida if they agree.

    Bookmark   April 17, 2014 at 12:52PM
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blfenton

Oh and you want to leave the voting program to the same type of yahoos who set up the computer program for the ACA registration. How'd that work out for you?

Putting voting on the internet isn't going to fix what seems to be inherent problems of hidden agendas, rule changes, or anything else that leads to "voter interference" (as noted), etc.

    Bookmark   April 17, 2014 at 1:12PM
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patriciae_gw(07)

We vote by mail here-everyone-I can sit at my table and exercise my right to vote and feel good about it too without wasting a lot of gas. The ballots have codes on them and I have to sign mine so it could be compared to my signature on file. It seems to work. We have had some impressively close governor's races in the past few elections cycles and they have had to do several recounts. They have something to work from. I like it. It works for me. All I need is a ink pen-black or blue, my choice. I can drop it off at a collection box when I go grocery shopping. I don't even need to come up with a stamp.

    Bookmark   April 17, 2014 at 1:12PM
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Brushworks Spectacular Finishes(5)

People hate waiting in line to vote, but are willing to idle their cars in line for over an hour to enter a concert.

Woe is us and our first world problems.

    Bookmark   April 17, 2014 at 1:19PM
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jlhug

Patriciae, do you have any idea how long it would take to match signatures for all the voters in the USA? Or how much it would cost to do so?

IMO matching signatures still doesn't prevent voter fraud and dirty tricks. How do you know for sure that the person whose name and SSN was the person who actually signed the voter registration form unless they come into an office and show ID or have their signature notarized (which also requires ID)?

Wakeandsmelltea, I agree. The electoral college is no longer needed. Presidents should be elected by individual votes. I also agree that the person who wins should have more than 50% of the vote.

    Bookmark   April 17, 2014 at 1:28PM
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Brushworks Spectacular Finishes(5)

Hacking can't happen to voters. Never.

Here is a link that might be useful: Hacked Canada

    Bookmark   April 17, 2014 at 1:36PM
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demifloyd(8)

Posted by blfenton 10 (My Page) on
Thu, Apr 17, 14 at 13:12

Oh and you want to leave the voting program to the same type of yahoos who set up the computer program for the ACA registration. How'd that work out for you?

*

Yahoos, indeed.

    Bookmark   April 17, 2014 at 1:58PM
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mylab123(z5NW)

Did you vote last presidential election, Brushworks?

When you stand in line for as long as eight or more hours, while trying to exercise a citizen's right you consider very important to exercise, for which the wait represents an attempt to thwart your vote by a bunch of Obama loving libruls, would you still respond by comparing your civic experience as meaningless as waiting eight hours, after paying close to a couple of hundred see some pop/rock star perform? And follow it with a sardonic remark about oh, the woes of silly Americans?

If you chose to exercise your right to vote in the last Presidential election Brushworks, how long did you have to wait to cast your vote in the last Presidential election ? Im honestly interested, because I wonder if, for many, an individual's wait time might play a part in the amount of importance one invests in the idea regarding reforming the voting process in this country, but it is something I think of only a possibility.
If I feel pretty darn sure that my voting experience will be as relatively hassle free as it was in the last Presidential election, will I place even as close of the great interest in the reform of the process as would those voting citizens in Florida and other places who were abused by the process?
( Deliberately abused, in order to discourage them from voting imo)

We all have come to realize that there are few if any questions directed to you specifically, especially regarding statements which you yourself have made, which you won't chance replying to (your patently incorrect, oft repeated Chomsky quote, for instance,).so I wont actually regard my questions to you as having an actual question mark at the end of the sentence.

This post was edited by mylab123 on Thu, Apr 17, 14 at 14:13

    Bookmark   April 17, 2014 at 2:07PM
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chase_gw

There are inherent problems with any system of voting.

On line voting will come....and it will be work just fine. All in good time.

    Bookmark   April 17, 2014 at 2:16PM
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Christopher_H

I waited in line for 2 1/2 hours. And I would wait for 5 hours if necessary.

If someone is not willing to actually extend the physical energy to exercise your right, then yes, please stay home. There are a lot of soldiers in Arlington would be glad to trade places with you.

    Bookmark   April 17, 2014 at 3:58PM
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chase_gw

And their are lots of vets, as well as others, who can't stand in line for 2 1/2 hours for lots of very valid reasons.......

Every effort should be expended to make it easy for people to vote......not difficult.

    Bookmark   April 17, 2014 at 4:23PM
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mylab123(z5NW)

Most of our soldiers at war dont want their wives and little children and their older moms and dads waiting in the lines that those Florida people suffered because it was to discourage them from waiting (but they waited and they voted anyway)- the soldiers would be outraged and demand reform because they too are American citizens who would recognize how unamerican and unpatriotic it would be to inflict that abuse upon their fellow Americans.
That would not be the sort of inconsiderate or insensitive country they would want for themselves, their parents, their family.

It astounds me that anyone defends this. It is flat astounding. Of course it is WORTH the price of the vote - and indeed, those people did stayed, voted and Obama won.

But it is certainly a system unworthy of any defense and one I suspect you would protest had it been you in those hot lines waiting over 8 hours to vote who you feel would best serve your country. And you would be a good American to protest, because that is unacceptable.

Maybe you believe that soldiers who fight in wars think it just fine and dandy to try to defeat those unwanted votes or make the voting process so unnecessarily abusive on their wives, kids, parents.
I guess some soldiers are just that way? But I think it would be very few, really.

    Bookmark   April 17, 2014 at 4:40PM
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duluthinbloomz4

I would find it difficult to stand in place for hours - I do best when moving. If I were thrust into that situation, I'd almost have to bring a lawn chair to use cane-like and/or to periodically sit on.

Fortunately, as cities go, we're not so large. The city clerk's site lists 34 polling places here making voting largely an in and out affair. Incomprehensible that there are those who willfully block easy access.

Exercising the franchise should be easy. I feel lucky, and all the other Minnesotans who keep us on top of the turnout charts (at over 76%) must think it's good too.

    Bookmark   April 17, 2014 at 4:53PM
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patriciae_gw(07)

Plenty of soldiers vote by mail because people in the military can have a 'home' state which is likely to not be where they are living at the moment. You can register to vote in your home state instead of the one you live in.

Jlhug-my ballot is a state ballot and local ballot. It has everything on it from presidents right down to dike district representatives. It is specific to my area since counties and local cities have different ballots. The only reason to check my signature is if someone thinks something is wrong with my ballot. Since there is in fact almost no voter fraud at the ballot level that is going to be a stretch of a possibility. It can be done of course because I have a signature on file with the state. Since each state manages it part of the presidential election differently my ballot is processed locally. Because of all the voter ID laws lots of investigations have gone into the possibility of voter fraud and virtually none has been found. I suppose a people who can barely manage to vote at all are hardly going to go to the trouble to do it in some other persona.

There is a problem with having the person who wins the presidential election being required to have 50% of the vote. If no one gets 50% who gets to be president? You presume 2 candidates but in fact we have a bunch from all the fringe parties.

    Bookmark   April 17, 2014 at 6:41PM
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rosie(Deep South, USA 7A/B)

Note that those who support and make excuses for voter suppression are all conservatives--a tacit acknowledgement that this is right-wing crime that they hope will steal elections for them; and, even more alarming, that for them the representative government our nation was based on is a problem that calls for subversion

Other conservatives really need to disown those and toss the criminals out of office. Actions count, while empty protestations of virtue are only useful for subversives to hide behind.

    Bookmark   April 17, 2014 at 7:14PM
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blfenton

But why do you have to stand in line for hours? That, I don't understand.

    Bookmark   April 17, 2014 at 7:17PM
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mylab123(z5NW)

Blfenton, do a search on our last presidential election and what went on in some Florida districts regarding line wait.
You will be disgusted that their fellow Americans would think it O.K. that other Americans were put through it.
Unless, of course, it was conservative Americans put through thst. All of a sudden, they would not only get it but scream about it.

I think the problem is with the word "fellow" in the term fellow Americans. It seems that is an idea which no longer applies. Mores the pity.

    Bookmark   April 17, 2014 at 7:25PM
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elvis

â¢Posted by blfenton 10 (My Page) on Thu, Apr 17, 14 at 19:17

"But why do you have to stand in line for hours? That, I don't understand."

Poor organization. That was not the norm, Fenton. The out of the ordinary is more likely to be remarked upon. I was in the longest voting line of my life for the most recent pres election: I'll bet I waited for a good 20 minutes. It was brutal.

    Bookmark   April 17, 2014 at 7:28PM
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Brushworks Spectacular Finishes(5)

Of course I voted!

At a school in Medina. It took about 15 minutes. I spent more time at the bake sale.

Many soldiers voted but their vote didn't count. Something about delayed by mail. Yeah. Sure.

    Bookmark   April 17, 2014 at 7:54PM
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Christopher_H

Anybody who cannot physically come to the polling place can always get an absentee ballot. My mother could not stand in lines and she voted absentee for the last 10 years of her life.

If the lines have become problematic, it's up to the county to establish enough voting stations.

    Bookmark   April 17, 2014 at 7:55PM
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Brushworks Spectacular Finishes(5)

Ineffective and unprepared local governments caused the delays for the majority who had to wait.

As for waiting in line, it's not even close to what Alice Paul endured. Remember her next time you vote.

    Bookmark   April 17, 2014 at 8:21PM
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blfenton

Ahhhh - so, as is often the case, the anomalies are transformed into sensational headlines. Got it.

    Bookmark   April 17, 2014 at 9:11PM
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nancy_in_venice_ca Sunset 24 z10

the anomalies are transformed into sensational headlines. Got it.

Ohio in November, 2004.

Anomaly, or testing the blueprint for future elections?

(blfenton, in U.S. voting annals, the impediments to voting in heavily Democrat districts were outrageous. Taking a cue from Florida in the 2000 presidential election, the OH Secretary of State -- responsible for voter registration and vote tabulating -- was deeply involved in the Bush re-election campaign, and there were several schemes to disenfranchise registered Democrats.)

    Bookmark   April 18, 2014 at 12:36AM
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jodik_gw

Voting via the internet is absolutely possible. We do have the technology.

It would make voting a lot easier for those who have disabilities or other reasons for not being physically able to reach a polling place.

And.. it would make tabulating votes a lot easier... with the right programming in place.

    Bookmark   April 18, 2014 at 1:09AM
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tobr24u(z6 RI)

Jodi, you get my vote...

    Bookmark   April 18, 2014 at 5:10AM
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brass_tacks(8b/GA)

The culture of this country is not ready for internet voting. If corruption were not such an identifiable description of our culture -- it would be a great idea.

    Bookmark   April 18, 2014 at 6:30AM
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sleeplessinftwayne(z4-5 IND)

My first attempt in writing a program was followed by watching a guy insert a line of code that completely wiped out my program and inserted another. It was a joke but it happens all too often in reality. I don't believe there is any unhackable program and your government doesn't believe it either.

    Bookmark   April 18, 2014 at 6:36AM
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Brushworks Spectacular Finishes(5)

How many of you want to insert your personal information to vote but you refuse to pay your bills online?

How silly.

    Bookmark   April 18, 2014 at 8:11AM
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lionheart_gw

"How many of you want to insert your personal information to vote but you refuse to pay your bills online?"

If I can't do it online I don't do it at all. :-)

Banking, income taxes, the overwhelming majority of non-grocery purchases, and bill paying - except for the water bill and school taxes because the authorities are morons - are all done online.

I turned down working with a bank a couple of years ago because they didn't have facilities for various online transactions. So, if I have both a savings and checking account, I can't transfer funds between them online without waiting 3 business days for the transaction to take effect? No, thank you.

Never had a problem with identity theft.

Voting online negates the idea of voter IDs. You would have to go through an authentication process to vote online, so there's no need to be treated like a potential criminal just to exercise your right to vote.

    Bookmark   April 18, 2014 at 10:03AM
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jlhug

I personally have never had a problem with identity theft. However, I've seen enough clients whose identity has been stolen to know that it is a very real problem and a huge nightmare to "unwind".

    Bookmark   April 18, 2014 at 10:09AM
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chase_gw

Identity theft is not restricted to internet use. Most of it is done through hacking corporate data bases like the Target fiasco.

I do all my banking on line and have for years. I submit my taxes online, shop on line..... ...can't recall life before PayPal ; )

It will come, sooner rather then later. It's inevitable and from my perspective the right thing to do in order to make voting easier rather than harder.

    Bookmark   April 18, 2014 at 11:03AM
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lionheart_gw

Chase is correct. Identity theft previously happened when people stole your information from forms - for example, your mortgage application that is sitting on someone's desk, stolen by someone who worked at the bank or even a passerby with a few minutes to glean some information off of your paperwork.

When you go to a doctor or dentist, if they take fraud prevention measures they will ask you for your drivers license, social security number, etc. Now they have that information. How do you know if everyone you encounter there is financially stable and honest? They might steal your info and use it themselves or sell it to rings of criminals who specialize in this stealing this info.

Ever fill out a credit card application at the store and hand it to some minimum wage cashier or counter person to process? That temptation might be hard to resist. You just potentially gave away the keys to your kingdom.

People use to (and still do) hand over their credit cards to restaurant workers, who then take your credit card to get an authorization and bring you a receipt to sign. On a busy night, it could be 10 or 15 minutes before you get your credit card back. How do you know some workers aren't copying down your credit card information to make purchases?

Then there were "check washing" rings that would steal your outgoing mail, take your outgoing checks and make a copy of the signature, and, using chemicals commonly available in just about any hardware store, would soak the check until the ink came off (hence "check washing"). Then they would fill out the checks, forge your signature, and cash them. No internet needed.

It is naive to think that you are avoiding identity theft by avoiding internet transactions. The ease of use, high availability, and reduced running around are advantages that more than make up for a risk that previously existed anyway.

Folks forget what life was like before the internet. They forget that theft occurred. It may have been more low tech, but it was still pervasive.

    Bookmark   April 18, 2014 at 12:15PM
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Brushworks Spectacular Finishes(5)

Ahem. I was speaking to the crowd that always puts down online banking, bill paying, product ordering, etc.

    Bookmark   April 18, 2014 at 12:20PM
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elvis

Nancy: "blfenton, in U.S. voting annals, the impediments to voting in heavily Democrat districts were outrageous."

Read: " It is my personal opinion, blfenton, that in U.S. voting annals, the perceived impediments to voting in heavily Democrat districts were outrageous."

Puh-leeze, who do you think you are, Wikipedia?

    Bookmark   April 18, 2014 at 12:23PM
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blfenton

I was overhearing a cell phone conversation the other day - couldn't help it as the women was talking so loud. She was yelling at someone who had messed up an order and in her very loud voice she gave out her full name, address and phone number in front of a number of people who couldn't but help overhear. Talk about giving the keys away to the kingdom.

Had she not been so obnoxious I probably would have suggested she make this a private conversation.

    Bookmark   April 18, 2014 at 12:26PM
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duluthinbloomz4

I don't "put down" on line banking, bill paying, tchotchkes ordering. I simply choose not to do it and probably won't until such time as it becomes the only method available.

    Bookmark   April 18, 2014 at 12:45PM
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nancy_in_venice_ca Sunset 24 z10

Republicans prevented more than 350,000 voters in Ohio from casting ballots or having their votes counted But what is most anomalous about the irregularities in 2004 was their decidedly partisan bent: Almost without exception they hurt John Kerry and benefited George Bush. After carefully examining the evidence, I've become convinced that the president's party mounted a massive, coordinated campaign to subvert the will of the people in 2004. Across the country, Republican election officials and party stalwarts employed a wide range of illegal and unethical tactics to fix the election. A review of the available data reveals that in Ohio alone, at least 357,000 voters, the overwhelming majority of them Democratic, were prevented from casting ballots or did not have their votes counted in 2004(12) -- more than enough to shift the results of an election decided by 118,601 votes.(13) (See Ohio's Missing Votes) In what may be the single most astounding fact from the election, one in every four Ohio citizens who registered to vote in 2004 showed up at the polls only to discover that they were not listed on the rolls, thanks to GOP efforts to stem the unprecedented flood of Democrats eager to cast ballots.(14) And that doesn't even take into account the troubling evidence of outright fraud, which indicates that upwards of 80,000 votes for Kerry were counted instead for Bush. That alone is a swing of more than 160,000 votes -- enough to have put John Kerry in the White House.(15)

    Bookmark   April 18, 2014 at 12:49PM
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rosie(Deep South, USA 7A/B)

Notably, the only people who are against internet voting, and make up excuses why, are those who support and hope to benefit from keeping citizens from voting by dirty tricks and tampering with the votes of others. Of course.

I'm all for the ability to vote at home over a good, long time period -- when our technical ability advances enough that it won't be a wonderful gift for those working to steal elections. Just as soon as possible, hopefully.

    Bookmark   April 18, 2014 at 1:07PM
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lionheart_gw

"I was overhearing a cell phone conversation the other day - couldn't help it as the women was talking so loud. She was yelling at someone who had messed up an order and in her very loud voice she gave out her full name, address and phone number in front of a number of people who couldn't but help overhear. Talk about giving the keys away to the kingdom."

I also love those helplines at various institutions where they ask you to speak your information when you call. What's the last 4 digits of your SSN? What is your date of birth? They don't give you an option to enter on the phone's keypad.

That's fine if you're at home or in a well-insulated closet or hiding in a thicket in the middle of nowhere, but what happens when you're in a room full of people and the only thing that can be heard is you giving out numbers on what is obviously a phone call to some sort of helpline (financial institution or not)?

Someone thought *that* was a good idea, eh? :-)

It doesn't matter if you're talking to a real person or a machine, you should be able to enter that info on a keypad. Actually, maybe it should be standard procedure. I'm not that paranoid in real life but, when you think about it, it's a hole in that security thing.

    Bookmark   April 18, 2014 at 2:10PM
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Brushworks Spectacular Finishes(5)

Notably, the only people who are against internet voting, and make up excuses why, are those who support and hope to benefit from keeping citizens from voting by dirty tricks and tampering with the votes of others. Of course.

I think you're making assumptions again. I'm not against it as long as it's proven to be able to preserve the integrity of my personal information, which includes my permanent residence address.

    Bookmark   April 18, 2014 at 2:49PM
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mylab123(z5NW)

Nobody should have to endure what Alice did. Are you saying that those nationally televised Florida line waits, so shocking in nature, so long in the heat, should be proudly endured in her memory - or even to proclaim the pride of he right ( nit privilege) to vote?

This is so weird a stand to make about the indifference regarding the extraordinarily long lines given as my example that.I cant even follow the logic.

The fight to win the right to vote won long ago. I ask that I exercise that right to do so with the relative ease and timeliness that it takes to order a meal in a restaurant, converse with big business online, conduct my banking in brick and mortar.

If that is considered too indulgent a thing to expect, its time some in here simply stand outside a voting place yourselves for, say three hours - not five or eight + in order to demonstrate your solidarity in the manner of expression you wish all should be willing to declare pride regarding the manner in which you believe waiting so long to vote so finely expresses.

    Bookmark   April 18, 2014 at 3:27PM
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rosie(Deep South, USA 7A/B)

I apologize, Brushworks, for mischaracterizing your comment and position. At base, though, I was referring only to those people who are willing to steal elections. I'm not sure those people all admit what they are, though, while those who would never condone it know that about themselves very well. The difference between being honest with ourselves about what we are not proud of in ourselves and what we are.

    Bookmark   April 18, 2014 at 5:42PM
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demifloyd(8)

Posted by rosie Southeast 7A/B (My Page) on
Fri, Apr 18, 14 at 13:07

Notably, the only people who are against internet voting, and make up excuses why, are those who support and hope to benefit from keeping citizens from voting by dirty tricks and tampering with the votes of others. Of course.

I'm all for the ability to vote at home over a good, long time period -- when our technical ability advances enough that it won't be a wonderful gift for those working to steal elections. Just as soon as possible, hopefully.

*

What? Listen to yourself.

People like me who are against internet voting don't NEED TO MAKE UP EXCUSES and most CERTAINLY DO NOT "support and hope to benefit from keeping citizens from voting by dirty tricks and tampering with the votes of others.

According to your statement, you lump EVERYONE that is against internet voting as to having these nefarious intentions of" keeping citizens from voting by dirty tricks and tampering with the votes of others," and of making up excuses (which none are needed).

Unbelievable.

Just unbelievable.

    Bookmark   April 18, 2014 at 5:52PM
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blfenton

Neither my 85 year old mother nor my 86 year old MIL would be able to vote by the internet on their own. That isn't an excuse - that is reality.

    Bookmark   April 18, 2014 at 6:36PM
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elvis

Mine either, Fenton, and presumably, also many other elderly/disabled. That would mean someone would have to "help" them...hmmm.

As it is, Mom can enter the voting booth and close the curtain and...vote privately.

    Bookmark   April 18, 2014 at 6:48PM
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Brushworks Spectacular Finishes(5)

Neither my 85 year old mother nor my 86 year old MIL would be able to vote by the internet on their own. That isn't an excuse - that is reality.

Unexpected consequence of internet voting.

There are millions of people who do not own a working computer or able to afford internet service. That's more a reality than some realize.

Around 20 percent of American adults are unable to read this article because they still donâÂÂt use the Internet at home, work or school. While nearly 98 percent of American homes now have access to some form of high-speed broadband, the New York Times reported on Monday that there are still tens of millions of people who are in essence being left behind.

This comes as the Obama administration has spent billions of dollars expanding the reach of the Internet. While these programs have seen an increase from less than 90 percent of homes having broadband access to 98 percent of homes having access, not everyone is taking advantage of it.

In fact 20 percent of American adults still donâÂÂt use the Internet, a figure that has remained unchanged since Barrack Obama took office in 2009, and after a $7 billion effort to expand access.

One of the biggest factors is that many older Americans have never owned a computer or even a smartphone. Many of these older people are simply not computer literate.

    Bookmark   April 18, 2014 at 7:33PM
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chase_gw

Who the heck ever suggested that internet voting would be the only way......it will be just another way.

    Bookmark   April 18, 2014 at 9:53PM
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jmc01

Biometric authentication has existed for quite a few years now. in the early days, it was very clunky. Now, it's easy to use. Put your finger on a fingerprint reader that is part of a keyboard. If your fingerprint isn't recognized, you don't logon. Same with your eye retina. Use fingerprint authentication at work daily.

The technology is in place. It's just a matter of time.

Here is a link that might be useful: E-voting and biometrics

This post was edited by jmc01 on Fri, Apr 18, 14 at 22:46

    Bookmark   April 18, 2014 at 10:27PM
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chase_gw

......and not too much time.....our kids are already there and they are in charge...make no mistake about it

    Bookmark   April 18, 2014 at 10:33PM
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