organic suppliments

v1rtu0s1ty(5a)April 5, 2007

Hey folks,

Can you please help me fill this out. I'm sure, other organic newbie like me will benefit from it too. And also, if I wrote wrong information, can you please guys correct it too? I will modify the table next time I get newer information.

Thanks.

Organic Product

Time of Application

Application Rate

Date Applied

When overseeding in Fall Corn Gluten Meal Apply in early spring, 3-5 weeks before weeds sprout (when crocus and early daffodils bloom) or even before when forsythia blooms. 20 lbs./1000 sqft April 5, 2007 8am Do not apply since it will inhibit seed germination Corn meal Early Spring 20 lbs./1000 sqft ? ? Soybean meal Twice a month 5-10 lbs./1000 sqft ? ? Alfalfa meal During Fall 20 lbs./1000 sqft ? ?

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dchall_san_antonio(8 San Antonio)

Here's how I would fill it out. (not sure why the gap but scroll down)

Organic Product

Time of Application

Application Rate

Date Applied

When overseeding in Fall

Corn Gluten Meal

Apply in early spring, 3-5 weeks before weeds sprout (when forsythia blooms).

20 lbs./1000 sqft

April 5, 2007 8am

Do not apply since it will inhibit seed germination

Corn meal

Any time

10-20 lbs./1000 sqft

?

Do not apply since it may inhibit seed germination

Any other ground grain

Memorial Day,
4th of July,
Labor Day,
Thanksgiving

10-20 lbs./1000 sqft

?

Apply 2 to 3 weeks prior to overseeding

    Bookmark   April 6, 2007 at 1:47AM
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v1rtu0s1ty(5a)

hi dchall,

I'm really a newbie in organic and in lawn care too. I noticed that you removed soybean and alfalfa meal. Any reason why you took it out? Or do they fall under "Any other ground grain"?

I think, I should add another column called Purpose/Use. Then I will delete the Date Applied column.

Like for example Corn Gluton Meal's Purpose will be "Act as pre-emergent, inhibit weeds. So for the Corn Meal, is it also a pre-emergent? What about Alfalfa, and Soybean, what are their roles?

This is the reason why I want to put each of them in each row. This way when I look at it, I will also know the purpose.

Thanks!

    Bookmark   April 6, 2007 at 2:40AM
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dchall_san_antonio(8 San Antonio)

Any ground up grain, nut, bean, seed, or stalk that contains protein is food for soil microbes. That includes corn gluten meal and corn meal, free coffee grounds, oatmeal, bread flour, alfalfa, soy, mung bean, and just about everything else. What varies from material to material is the amount of protein and the cost.

Corn materials have been shown to have a preemergent effect of keeping sprouted seeds from taking hold with a root. Other materials apparently have not shown that same effect.

Ordinary corn meal has been shown to have an antifungal effect. If you apply it at 10-20 pounds per 1,000 square feet every 90 days, it should suppress most all fungal diseases except for rust and red thread. If you already have a turf disease, then you can apply it at 20 pounds per 1,000 square feet to eradicate the disease.

Red thread and rust seem to be controlled with milk diluted at 2-3 ounces of milk per gallon of water and sprayed over 1,000 square feet.

If you add shrubs to a table, you could note that spraying every 2 weeks with milk or seaweed (same dilution) seems to keep sucking insects like aphids and various other crawlies away from the plants.

Do you realize that if you make that table you're about to make, my work here will be done? Organic gardening is pretty simple when you have something like a simple table to focus your concerns.

    Bookmark   April 6, 2007 at 9:44AM
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bpgreen(5UT)

I mostly use Starbucks coffee grounds for my lawn. My schedule is that I spread them as I get them. My wife objects to the smell during the summer, and the lawn is covered with snow in the winter, so they go in the compost then, but otherwise they go on the lawn.

I spread them at a much higher rate than the 10-20 lbs per 1k sq ft. In fact, I probably apply them at around 75 lb per 1k sq ft. I make a total of three or four passes around the lawn during the year (this is only the second year that there's been a convenient Starbucks).

I don't use a spreader or measure or anything. I just open the bags and wave them back and forth as I walk backwards around the lawn. With synthetic fertilizers, you need to be careful to spread the fertilizer evenly around the lawn or you'll have spots that are greener than others (especially pronounced with a drop spreader that causes a striping effect). With organic fertilizers, that's not an issue.

    Bookmark   April 7, 2007 at 1:53AM
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v1rtu0s1ty(5a)

hi bpgreen,

just curious, what will the grass benefit from Starbucks coffee grounds? Is it high in protein?

And also folks, what benefit does a grass get from potassium? What organic is very rich in potassium?

Can those "Any other ground grain" be bought at Menards, Jewel, Dominics, Meijer, or any supermarket?

Thanks folks!

    Bookmark   April 10, 2007 at 8:05PM
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bpgreen(5UT)

"just curious, what will the grass benefit from Starbucks coffee grounds? Is it high in protein?"

It's greener. Coffee grounds are high in N, so I assume they're high in protein as well.

Meijer--Detroit area?

You can buy cornmeal at grocery stores, but it will probably be more costly than if you buy it at a mill or even a "club" store like Sam's Club or Costco.

    Bookmark   April 10, 2007 at 10:12PM
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dchall_san_antonio(8 San Antonio)

Nitrogen is one of the chemical constituents of amino acids that form protein molecules.

    Bookmark   April 11, 2007 at 1:35AM
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v1rtu0s1ty(5a)

other than alfalfa meal, what are really good for promoting root growth?

    Bookmark   April 11, 2007 at 2:59AM
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greenjeans_il(zone5 IL)

Deeeeep watering is the best. Infrequently too. By giving your turf no less than 1" of water it should permeate deep into the soil. By only doing this when the grass needs it you're training your roots to go long for the H2O.

Our sub-soil in this area tends to promote run-off before it allows for deep watering. I like to give it about a half inch per zone and then another half inch a little later the same day. I've got four zones and it takes about 45 minutes for me to get a half inch (according to the tuna can that follows my sprinkler). So by the time I'm done with zone four zone one has had over two hours to soak up the first half inch of water. The second half inch goes in much easier.

    Bookmark   April 11, 2007 at 8:34AM
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lou_midlothian_tx(z8 DFW, Tx)

Other than alfalfa meal for promoting root growth, kelp meal but it's very expensive. I had planned on getting them last weekend but found out that it had gone up 15 dollars! Kelp liquid would be sufficient but i've never found out the true differences between kelp meal and liquid.

You don't need to make things so complicated. Just put down any grain every 3 months. At a minimum every fall and spring but it appears to work better for lawns that have been under organic program for a while so you probably need to do more at first like every 3 months to gradually improve soil biology. Just don't do anything that will ruin soil biology like chemical fertilizers, pesticides, hericides and fungicides. Be patient. You might not get what you're looking for during first year but it will gradually improve every year.

    Bookmark   April 11, 2007 at 8:59AM
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v1rtu0s1ty(5a)

bpgreen,

I'm going to either Sam's Club or Costco tomorrow. As you mentioned earlier, I can buy cornmeal from them. Do you recall what brand it is? Do they sell soybean meal as well?

    Bookmark   April 13, 2007 at 8:19AM
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greenjeans_il(zone5 IL)

LOL, I'm sorry but you sound like I did about this time last year.

Believe it or not, in the heart of corn country, you can not and will not find bulk corn meal in Northern Illinois. I've called everyone, asked on three different forums, begged, pleaded and even cried a little. I couldn't find it anywhere.

Until...and this is where it gets good...I found a mill in Kankakee called J.R.Short. They have corn meal!! : ), but they don't sell to the general public. So, I went through the pains of setting up an account with them through my employer (who's a steel mfg., but J.R.Short didn't seem to care), arranged trucking and ordered the smallest quantity they would allow; one pallet, fifty 50lb. bags. I'm now stocked on corn meal for at least two more years, but I'll sell some if you need it. I'd have to look to see how much I paid for it and you can have it at cost if you pick it up.

Greenjeans

    Bookmark   April 13, 2007 at 12:14PM
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v1rtu0s1ty(5a)

Let me know how much it cost and I'll think about it.

    Bookmark   April 13, 2007 at 3:05PM
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v1rtu0s1ty(5a)

By the way folks, what's the difference between CGM and CM?

    Bookmark   April 13, 2007 at 3:18PM
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greenjeans_il(zone5 IL)

CGM is actually a bi-product of the wet mill process. Or at least that's how it's been described to me. I guess after they're done grindin' up the corn it's the scraps left over. Hard to believe it's so much more expensive, huh? I think maybe it's because it takes a lot more corn to get 50lbs. of CGM than it does just regular CM.

Anyone have any further input on this?

    Bookmark   April 13, 2007 at 3:55PM
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v1rtu0s1ty(5a)

hey greenjeans,

I found a nice explanation from dchall_san_antonio about corn meal. Link is here.

Don't forget the price. I'm really interested. How can we email privately though? I don't want to post my email address here.

    Bookmark   April 13, 2007 at 5:16PM
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lawnkidd(z7MD)

V1rtu0s1ty just click on his name handle and click on send me an email.

    Bookmark   April 13, 2007 at 10:33PM
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v1rtu0s1ty(5a)

Thanks lawnkidd. I will also have to check my email that is associated with my handle here. :)

    Bookmark   April 13, 2007 at 10:57PM
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v1rtu0s1ty(5a)

lawnkidd, good thing I checked it, I had the checkbox unchecked. It's checked now, I will be able to receive emails now via GardebWeb's form.

    Bookmark   April 13, 2007 at 11:02PM
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greenjeans_il(zone5 IL)

Here is my original GardenWeb post regarding the corn meal. I had to search but I found it. $7.50 a bag is what I paid and this stuff is good for spredding. It's medium/coarse ground so it flows good through the spredder with little to no dust.

I had posted this up last year but got little response. I went ahead and bought it because of the frequent request for corn meal by people in IL but I only sold 5 bags. I've since recovered from the investment and figured I'd just keep it but that never stops me from helping someone out if they need some.

By the way, I used three bags of this last weekend and it doesn't contain any bugs. I did see some evidence of mice but I'll keep those bags that they've chewed on. I have plenty of bags that were untouched by the little guys. I moved all the bags from my garage to my backyard and while moving I did see one FAT little mouse. Man he looked happy! He could barely move from all that good corn he'd muched on all Winter. My neighbor across the street stopped by and thanked me for keeping the mice out of his garage last Winter. LOL

Here is a link that might be useful: I've got corn meal!!

    Bookmark   April 16, 2007 at 9:03AM
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v1rtu0s1ty(5a)

Yes, I would like to purchase 200 lbs(4 50 lbs. bag). How do I get it? I sent you an email last week but don't know if you had it setup. I will send you another email. :)

Where do you buy soybean meal?

Thanks!

Neil

    Bookmark   April 16, 2007 at 10:12AM
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greenjeans_il(zone5 IL)

Replied to both emails! We'll work it out. You shouldn't need it for a couple more weeks.

I buy soybean meal from Ludwigs. I still have a few bags from last year so I probably won't be getting any for a few weeks. I'm not sure if the price has gone up on it like the corn, but it probably has. I think I was paying around $10/50lbs last year.

Greenjeans

    Bookmark   April 16, 2007 at 10:36AM
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