The REAL crime

fancifowl(5Pa)April 28, 2013

The mayor who refuses to demand application of federal laws that would rid the streets of criminals and gun crimes, Rahm Emanuel, never misses an opportunity to blame peacable, law abiding gun owners for the daily crimes commited in his state.
But he is not alone, mayors of many cities with higth crime also seek to penalize the lawful gun owners while letting crime rage rampant in their cities. The obama administration shows little interest in in what it considers low level fire-arms crimes as they struggle over which gun crimes to prosecute. Wouldnt it be sensible to prosecute these low level gun crimes before they turn into high level gun crimes and people die?
These high gun crime cities where hundreds die and thousands are harmed see patheticaly few gun criminals prosecuted. But that never stops the anti gun type to go after the law abiding gun owners.
Everything the criminals do is against the law in their efforts to get a gun, its already a felony under federal lAW. hOLDERS JUSTICE DEPARTMENT REFERS TO THEM AS PAPER CRIMES AND DOES VERY LITTLE ABIOUT THESE CRIMES. yET hOLDER WOULD FURTHER VRESTRICT THE LAWFUL GUN BUYERS.

HERES A FEW FED LAWS WHICH COULD BE ENFORCED, IF THIS ADMINISTRATION really WAS INTERESTED IN SLOWING CRIME.
18 usc 922- 10 YEARS FOR POSESSION OF A FIREARM OR AMMUNITION BY A FELON OR DRUG USER OR FUGITIVE.

18 USC 922..10 years for posession of a stolen fire-arm.
18 USC 922(i) 10 years for shipment or transport of a tolen fire-arm.
18USC(b) for shipping, transporting or receipt of a firearm in connection with a federal crime of vio;lence or drugs.
18USC 924(j) 5-30 years consecutive mandatory sentences for carrying, using or possesing a firearm in connection with a crime of violence or drug trafficking.
death penalty or up to life for commiting murder while possesing a firearm in connection with a crime of violence or drug trafficking USC 924
15 years minimum for a prohibited person who has three -prior convictions for drug offenses or violent felonies
10 years for interstate travel to acquire or transfer a firearm to commit a crime.
This is a gfew fed laws already o the books seeing very little enforcement by an administration all to eager to infringe further on the law abiding gun owneres who do not commit crimes and support stringent enforcement of gun laws. Gun owners see very little reason for any more laws which are designed only to harass them and make their rights more difficult while this administration does very little to end gun crimes by enforcing the many gun laws already on the books.

This administration and its minions who shout for abusing the rights of law abiding gun owners abet the criminal use of fire arms. This is the REAL crime being committed. And yet they expect gun owners to roll over and allow their 2nd amendment right be trampled. Itrs just notgoing to happen. There will be no compromises until gun owners see this goverment do something about crime. They will not be judged by criminal actors. They will npot allow the obama/holder administration to steam roll their rightrs.

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elvis

IMO you make some very good points. But you should have capitalized Obama. Hope no one gets sidelined by that, I hope to get that out of the way with this.

    Bookmark   April 28, 2013 at 1:14PM
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jodik_gw

Spelling, punctuation, grammar, and capitalization can be forgiven when the message is one of such truth and eloquence.

We have the workable statutes on the books. So, why aren't we applying them?

We are, as a society, literally letting criminals get away with murder... and through a justice system that is bent, allowing those criminals to continue on their merry way to commit more crimes.

Why is that?

THIS is what we should be outraged over!

    Bookmark   April 28, 2013 at 1:24PM
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Pidge

Spelling, punctuation, grammar and capitalization errors can be forgiven if one is a 12-year-old, but not for an adult who is trying to make a plausible argument.

    Bookmark   April 28, 2013 at 4:12PM
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elvis

"...12 year old..."

I was hoping to head that sort of remark off with my comment on the Obama glich, after all it is a proper name and all. And he is the president. I see that was a mistake on my part. Sorry, Fanci. I agree with Jodi on this.

The rest of it--well I've seen far, far worse spelling & grammar on HT, and I've heard it said ad nauseum that it's petty to remark on it, so I'm surpressing my OCD. It's getting easier. Besides, I don't feel so bad when I do it. ;-) Win-win.

Back to the actual content of the OP. Maybe no one ever argues with the truth in Fanci's statements about the laws we already have on the books not being enforced vigorously, because there is no argument. Wonderful! So we all agree on that.

    Bookmark   April 28, 2013 at 6:56PM
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fancifowl(5Pa)

Yeh, I know the typing skills were especially bad today. Some days I just cant see squat and I did start to go back to re do but just gave up. Soon as I turn 14 itll get better. I couldnt care less what some elitists have to say, Im am not at all offended. Its really all they can muster in this argument, personal attacks is what they have to argue with.

This post was edited by fancifowl on Sun, Apr 28, 13 at 19:19

    Bookmark   April 28, 2013 at 7:18PM
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david52_gw

Well, if there is no database of who owns what gun along with the serial numbers, or what guns are stolen, how the heck can you determine if someone is in possession of a stolen gun? Or crossing state lines with one?

There is a voluntary database for stolen guns where, if your gun gets stolen and you happen to have the serial number written down somewhere else, you can enter it in a data base. If its recovered, they return it.

But this is much like the straw purchase thing. You have to prove, in a court, that the buyer knew that the person was a crook and ineligible to own a gun. Thats a lot harder than it sounds. See Fast and Furious, where they wouldn't prosecute the straw purchases because the courts kept throwing their cases out.

    Bookmark   April 28, 2013 at 7:20PM
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frank_il

Did you cite your source? I'm just asking for the sake of clarity.

    Bookmark   April 28, 2013 at 8:00PM
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woodnymph2_gw

I don't often agree with fanci, but I would never attack his grammar or spelling, as he told us long ago that he has had serious eye issues for years.

    Bookmark   April 29, 2013 at 12:50PM
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ohiomom

"I don't often agree with fanci, but I would never attack his grammar or spelling, as he told us long ago that he has had serious eye issues for years"

Thank you sistah!

    Bookmark   April 29, 2013 at 12:56PM
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jillinnj

Yup, FF has admitted he has serious eye issues. In his own words Some days I just cant see squat.

Yet owns guns and shoots them whenever he damn well pleases. Cold dead hands, and all that. Apparently, cold dead family too if necessary.

Maybe it's just me, but I see a big problem with that.

    Bookmark   April 29, 2013 at 2:21PM
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marquest(z5 PA)

I am surprised I did not read about all the prison are empty and people do not got to jail for firearms anymore. When did that happen FF. Are you saying that people are no longer arrested when they are caught drugged up and shooting people.

Color me shocked.

“None so blind as those that will not see.”

Cling to the bible and guns
“Therefore I speak to them in parables: because they seeing see not…”

“Hear now this, O foolish people, and without understanding; which have eyes, and see not…”

    Bookmark   April 29, 2013 at 2:56PM
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lily316(z5PA)

Have to agree with Jill. FF admits he can't see worth squat and YET shoots guns.

    Bookmark   April 29, 2013 at 3:08PM
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jerzeegirl(9)

I guess it's just too bad that Congress keeps blocking federal judicial appointments, right FF?

    Bookmark   April 29, 2013 at 3:08PM
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fouquieria(10b)

Remember that Louisiana, as a state, has the highest firearm-related murder rates in the nation, by far.

They also have the second highest police officer murder rate.

So....
Gun laws in Louisiana prevent the state’s law enforcement officers from doing their jobs, and put them at a much greater risk of gun violence. Last November, the state passed an NRA-backed ballot initiative that enshrined gun ownership in the constitution and removed provisions that prohibited certain individuals, such as domestic abusers and the seriously mentally ill, from carrying a concealed weapon. In March, a judge ruled that the amendment outlawed a “state statute forbidding certain felons from possessing firearms,” noting that “The courts cannot question the wisdom of fundamental law and frustrate the will of the people.”

And this is only the final kicker in a long line of pro-gun, anti-law-enforcement measures undertaken in the state.

You have to be impressed with this. No matter what side of the "debate" you're on, you just have to be impressed that the NRA went to the mat for a constitutional amendment demanding criminals, violent abusers and the mentally ill be allowed to wander around with whatever guns they want�"and that Louisiana's legislators and voters both give the notion a thumbs-up.

-Ron-

    Bookmark   April 29, 2013 at 3:39PM
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fouquieria(10b)

I can't find firearm-related murder rates for Alabama or Florida. I wonder why that is? I'm guessing maybe it's illegal in those states. Deprives them of their 2nd Amendment rights as low information voters or sumpin'.

-Ron-

    Bookmark   April 29, 2013 at 3:45PM
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october17(5chgo)

They can only hand out the sentences if the prosecutors refuse to accept plea bargains. Do you know how busy the courts are with these felons? Cops can make the arrests, but then it's out of their hands.

Shouldn't be criticizing Rahm. He works closely with the cops. Go after Anita - Crook County State's Attorney. No more pleas in gun cases. Sounds good to everyone?

    Bookmark   April 29, 2013 at 8:44PM
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youngquinn_gw

JIll "Yup, FF has admitted he has serious eye issues. In his own words Some days I just cant see squat.

Yet owns guns and shoots them whenever he damn well pleases. Cold dead hands, and all that. Apparently, cold dead family too if necessary.

Maybe it's just me, but I see a big problem with that"
I agree. I have mentioned this on many occaisions.

He cant have it both ways.

If your vision is so bad then give up your licens e to carry concealed and never carry a gun in public.

    Bookmark   April 29, 2013 at 9:17PM
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fancifowl(5Pa)

Yeh, I shoot a lot. We generally shoot every Sunday. When I shoot I use 12 and 14 and 16 power scopes with 50mm occular lens which is a great assist in getting on target.Funny thing is, I just cant shoot a shotgun worth a darn. Some times light seems to cause problems with reflection, no explanation for it? Having no periferal vision , and but 1 eye with vision may assist my shooting skills? I am not distracted and am able to totally concentrate on the target. Controlled breathing exercise also helps. I knew another sniper who had similar problems, he was a dead shot.

I have a ton of laser scar tissue on my retinas, thats to hold them together. Each eyeball also has a silicone band around it cinched to create a scleral buckle which assists in shaping the eyeball to presss against the retina. I have no vision in the right eye and the left is at 20/40 corrected with an implant and regular eyeglasses for 30 years my right eye was my seeing eye, the left was 20/200 after a surgery. Several years ago newer technology enabled an operation with an implant which improved that eye just as I lost the right. . At one time they(Drs) even thought I may have some kinda parasite in my eyes! maybe from dogs or crawling around the jungle floors of Vietnam. I guess they got over that idea. Ive had the fluid removed from the eyeball and oil injected, then removed and water added which becomes the natural fluid in a few hours/days. been quite the experience, the Cleveland Clinic even did a genetic study. I hope others can be helped by it?? if anybody ever needs retinal surgery, I can recommend some pretty good docs.Just dont ask me what I think of the Cleveland Clinic, it wont be nice.

    Bookmark   April 29, 2013 at 9:36PM
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youngquinn_gw

FF Im not talking about target shooting. Im talking about you carrying a gun in public "in areas where you consider are unsafe..and you have admitted that on this forum !

I am so surprised that your medical team have not required you to give up both your gun license and your driving license.

    Bookmark   April 30, 2013 at 1:04AM
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ohiomom

FF I am with you on the "clinic" ... and glad the doctors found something that enables you to have some sight. One of my daughters is struggling with a sight issue right now, cause unknown that could cause a loss of her vision if not "maintained".

    Bookmark   April 30, 2013 at 6:56AM
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marquest(z5 PA)

I am so surprised that your medical team have not required you to give up both your gun license and your driving license.

Pa is lax on driving license. I assume probably more so for guns.

I took the keys off my Mom when I was driving down the street and saw someone driving down the middle of the road coming right at me and discovered it was my Mom.

    Bookmark   April 30, 2013 at 10:14AM
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fancifowl(5Pa)

as Ive said, I rarely carry anywhere but when its called for I will.Why on earth would I be required to givce up a gun license? thats just absurd!! I am legal to drive but rarely drive anywhere but the country roads. I wouldnt dream of driving in a large town.

I wish your daughter the best mom.With all the knowledge and technology of today, its hard to imagine there are still tghe unknowns. The docs okayed me for shooting, they at one time thought recoil could cause some trouble but with all the scar tissue, and the fact I shoot below .30 caliber ammo its safe.

    Bookmark   April 30, 2013 at 3:29PM
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duluthinbloomz4

Ron, off a state by state chart on Wikipedia.These are 2010 stats, however - which you likely bypassed as being sorely outdated.

Florida 669 gun murders
Alabama 135 gun murders

Piece mealing... Only partial numbers are available for 2012, but from January to June, 2012, there were 358 gun murders in Florida. Alabama ?

    Bookmark   April 30, 2013 at 4:03PM
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jodik_gw

So, all these new "laws" that everyone seems to want to put in place... exactly what will they accomplish?

Will they stop shootings from happening? Will they stop crime involving weapons? Will they do away with illegally bought and sold guns?

I'm really interested in knowing exactly what the expected end result is supposed to be... in reality.

And why on earth shouldn't someone still be able to practice something they obviously enjoy, even with partial vision?

I don't have 20/20 vision, and I do more than fairly well at hitting my target. I can drive... I choose not to. I don't like being behind the wheel ever since our accident, even though I wasn't driving at the time. I'm still just a little freaked out at the way a lot of others drive... cell phone in hand, not paying attention, etc...

    Bookmark   April 30, 2013 at 5:14PM
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david52_gw

You don't think back ground checks for people buying guns at a gun show are a good idea?

    Bookmark   April 30, 2013 at 6:05PM
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youngquinn_gw

". I have no vision in the right eye and the left is at 20/40 corrected with an implant and regular eyeglasses for 30 years my right eye was my seeing eye, the left was 20/200 after a surgery. Several years ago newer technology enabled an operation with an implant which improved that eye just as I lost the right. . At one time they(Drs) even thought I may have some kinda " Jodik why do you mention 20 20 vision? No one said FF had rto have 20 20 vision and no one mentioned target shooting.

thgis is what he said"as Ive said, I rarely carry anywhere but when its called for I will.Why on earth would I be required to givce up a gun license? thats just absurd!!"

so when it is called for he will carry a gun in public....with no depth perception...as I said I cant understand how slack your licensing enforcement is!

    Bookmark   April 30, 2013 at 6:17PM
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alexrander

Gee fancy, I thought the gun(s) that killed those 20 children in Sandyhook along with 6 adult staffers, as well as his mother and eventually himself were legal.

Mom even took him to gun ranges. Yet you act like that wasn't a real crime. Not a real crime?

The real crime and the real villains are the NRA and those that support their lobby. They even lobbied to keep explosives used in bomb making from having identifying markers so that they could be traced. That's a real crime, and a crying shame.

I can't imagine a Hell hot enough for what the NRA has done to destroy this country.

    Bookmark   April 30, 2013 at 11:04PM
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alexrander

What Crime? It depends on what you;re shooting at. If you legally have a gun and your son shots you and then shoots a bunch of kids, I'd say that was a pretty big crime- in any sense of the word. And the NRA is a lobbying terrorist organization that is linked to that crime by allowing a flood of guns in our communities.

If you're talking about the NRA, I didn't know the NRA could shoot anything, I mean it's a terrorist organization that buys congress, not a person. The people who support it , outside of the gun manufacturers, well they're just impotent putzes who can't think for themselves and buy into all the 'gun' envy and fear that the NRA puts out.

I grew up in Erie county, I knew the same woods of Allegheny forest and duck blinds around the pennisula, I knew the hunters and folks that raised hunting dogs, and not one of them needed the NRA. The NRA is like some criminal clan.

    Bookmark   April 30, 2013 at 11:53PM
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fancifowl(5Pa)

you are WAAAY out there!!

    Bookmark   May 1, 2013 at 5:43PM
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alexrander

Ah, the politically correct response! I would say that it's the NRA that's way out there. Polls prove it. But money talks and buys our government. So we are left unprotected by the various foaming at the mouth gun lobbies.

All for money and gun lust.

    Bookmark   May 1, 2013 at 8:33PM
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elvis

"So we are left unprotected by the various foaming at the mouth gun lobbies."

The gun lobbies are leaving you unprotected against what? Which gun lobbies are leaving you unprotected? And who are the "we" in your statement? Trying to understand what you are saying here, Alex.

    Bookmark   May 1, 2013 at 8:56PM
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alexrander

Dare I mention that recently (yesterday), a 5 year old boy shot his little sister dead with a 'child's rifle' that was a gift.

(snip)
"The children's mother was home at the time of the shooting Tuesday afternoon but had stepped out to the front porch for a few minutes and "she heard the gun go off," Cumberland County Coroner Gary White said. He said the rifle was kept in a corner and the family didn't realize a bullet was left inside it.".....

The company that made the gun, Milton, Pa.-based Keystone Sporting Arms, produced 60,000 Crickett and Chipmunk rifles in 2008, according to its website. It also makes guns for adults, but most of its products are geared toward children.

The smaller guns come in all sorts of colors, including blue and pink.
The company's slogan is "my first rifle" and its website has a "Kids Corner" section where pictures of young boys and girls are displayed...."
----------------------------------------------------------------

What kind of company markets guns to little children that can shoot and kill? We have a government that protects our children from toys that may leach lead, or sharp objects or things that can be swallowed, but as a society we can't keep real guns and rifles from being sold to little children?

Thanks NRA, you can carve another 'notch' in your bloated belt of dead children in America.

Here is a link that might be useful: Yahoo news

    Bookmark   May 1, 2013 at 9:40PM
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youngquinn_gw

what sort of country allows a manufacturer to market guns to the parents of small children?

Free enterprise gone insane!

    Bookmark   May 1, 2013 at 9:47PM
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fancifowl(5Pa)

Yep, my grandkids have Savage youth rifles, 1 pink, 1 lime green, the other gr daughters M&P 15 is pink camo. All uglier than sin in my opinion. But they are sized right for their body which allows them to be safe while shooting and learning about gun safety The bright colors make them highly visible. By the time they are 12 they should be excellemt marksmen.My wifes pistol is gold anodized aluminum, cool looking little mouse gun and fun to shoot. bGuns are no different than any other marketable item. Of course you know they arent marketed to children cause they arent 21. But hey, its your game, your losing.

    Bookmark   May 1, 2013 at 9:53PM
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Embothrium(USDA 8 Sunset 5 WA)

All very sensible.

    Bookmark   May 1, 2013 at 9:59PM
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youngquinn_gw

"its your game you're losing" so that is all you have to say?
No mention of the little girl who lost her life wehn she wa sshot by her 5 year old brother?
NRA types seem to want to steer the conversation away from victims. have you noticed that?

    Bookmark   May 1, 2013 at 11:35PM
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fouquieria(10b)

All very sensible.

-Ron-

    Bookmark   May 2, 2013 at 12:07AM
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alexrander

Well I hope I answered Elvis's question. Or at least I hope she understands. It's just the plain truth. The NRA tries to white wash it, but blood is hard to clean up.

A 5 year old shoots and kills his 2 year old sister with his 'gift' rifle from his parents... Nice gift. The boy has to grow up knowing he killed his kid sister.

" they are sized right for their body which allows them to be safe while shooting" ? Safe for who fancifowl? Safe for who? Not for the little girl who's fallen cold and dead. Blood is hard to clean up.

"By the time they are 12 they should be excellent marksmen"------------ Perhaps- if they're still alive. Of course the little boy who shot his sister was a dead eye at the tender age of 5.

Who killed Cock Robin?
I, said the Sparrow,
with my bow and arrow,
I killed Cock Robin.

Fancifowl seems to think this is a game, just like that little boy probably thought he was playing a game. It's not a game, and the NRA is serious. Dead serious. But I'll grant you this - I am losing, and that little girl is lost forever- , the boy is losing, their parents are losing and America is losing.

Blood is hard to clean up.

    Bookmark   May 2, 2013 at 12:34AM
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youngquinn_gw

but the gun manufacturers are not losing, they are making a 'killing"
profit driven!!

    Bookmark   May 2, 2013 at 1:42AM
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lily316(z5PA)

You beat me to it, Alex. I was going to mention about the five year old who killed his sister. It's freaking unbelievable that we have such stringent standards protecting kids today, and we allow kids to own guns. Five years old!!! I wouldn't allow my son to play with TOY guns. All the parents of the kids in the pictures should be jailed for child abuse.

    Bookmark   May 2, 2013 at 2:31AM
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fancifowl(5Pa)

Damn lily, we agree on one thinh anyhow!!

    Bookmark   May 2, 2013 at 5:29PM
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elvis

Ron, those photos are just crazy. Where'd they come from?

Alex, I was trying to understand your post at 20:33. I don't see anything in your subsequent post at 21:40 which addresses that, but never mind. You've sort of moved on, and so will I. Thanks anyway for acknowledging my questions.

    Bookmark   May 2, 2013 at 7:13PM
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