Angraecum erectum

mrbreeze(z6/7 OK)October 5, 2008

That is what I now believe it to be. It was sold to me as Ang. firthii. It clearly isn't firthii, not even close. If anyone thinks it isn't erectum, please say something!

By the way...for any newbies or people that don't know... This plant came from Carolina Orchids, run by "Dr" Tom Nasser. I first heard of his reputation for selling plants with the wrong tags/names back in 2003 on this very forum. I figured I would try one order and see what would happen. He charged outrageous prices for everything and so far, every single plant i got from him has bloomed out different than advertised. He has been committing these frauds for many years and is not to be trusted. He should be jailed in my opinion. So if you ever find yourself tempted by his "list", keep in mind that it is all a ruse and he is a criminal.

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xmpraedicta(3b Saskatoon)

Thanks for the warning and posting this - looks like a pretty interesting plant nonetheless. Any fragrance?

    Bookmark   October 6, 2008 at 9:26PM
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bcfromfl(z8a NW FL)

Beautiful ang, none the less! You may be correct that it's erectum, although yours seems more green and less white. Makes me think of cultriforme as a possibility.

I tried one order of two small plants almost two years ago from this individual...which turned out to be a horribly unpleasant experience when I challenged what he sent me. (I could fill your ear!!) Fortunately I was able to get a refund after I returned his plants.


    Bookmark   October 6, 2008 at 11:28PM
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bolero(VIC Aust z9)

Isn't that illegal though? False advertising is here I believe. Maybe lodge a complaint.

Although I have to say I love the plant.

    Bookmark   October 7, 2008 at 5:01AM
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highjack(z6 KY)

Interesting Mr. Breeze - I too have purchased many plants from Tom Nasser and have yet to get one misnamed. Each and everyone has bloomed true to name. Yes, his plants are higher priced than say Oak Hill but the divisions are much bigger and bloom next cycle or have been previously bloomed. I've gotten some outstanding paphs, phrags, catts, epis, lycaste, bulbos and what I call odds and ends from him. I haven't ventured into the ang world with him but angs aren't my cup of tea.

I'm sorry your experience was bad but he certainly has helped me make decisions on which cultivar would be best for my situation, and sometimes his recommendation actually saved me money.

Tom Nasser doesn't just play a doctor on TV but actually is one as is his wife Shan.

For anyone wanting to peruse his list, I've included his website but upon Mr. B's recommendation I would steer away from the angs.


Here is a link that might be useful: Carolina Orchids

    Bookmark   October 7, 2008 at 7:02AM
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ifraser25(z11 Brazil)

This is quite a tricky problem isn't it. You don't want to complain as you want to maintain a good relationship, though in this case you probably weren't that bothered. Here in Brazil the law is not as good as in USA or UK, but I find that misnomers are generally "in good faith" rather than from any attempt to defraud. Hardly anyone here has any botanical training (myself included) so mistakes are fairly frequent. It's for that reason I wouldn't recommend anyone importing from here though.

    Bookmark   October 7, 2008 at 9:42AM
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bcfromfl(z8a NW FL)

In my book, the true measure of a business or service is not determined before money changes hands. Any businessperson will be more than eager to make a sale, and be most helpful. Where the "wheat is separated from the chaff," so to speak, is when the humility and congeniality of the businessperson is called upon when a customer is dissatisfied.


    Bookmark   October 7, 2008 at 7:04PM
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mrbreeze(z6/7 OK)

The thing is, his plants were great. They were bigger than average and two or three of them were either in bloom or had spikes. They were probably even worth the price. But...I already had three bilobas and didn't need another one, especially since I paid extra for Aerangis laurentii.

As a collector and hopefully a breeder one day, it is important to me to get reliably named plants. It is exciting to thing that I've found a source for a plant that is not available anywhere else. And I questioned him at length over the phone on more than one occasion.

I put his title in quotes because, if he's educated enough to get a doctorate degree in something, he should be smart enough to label his plants properly or at the VERY least, make it clear that there is some question about the identity.

Nobody else in the country advertises some of the plants he claims to have. If he was advertising them as what they really are, nobody would buy them. So since he's a Dr., I can only assume he knows what he has and he is pulling this crap on purpose. Luring collectors of Angs and Bulbos and other elusive types and then pulling the ol' switcheroo on the over-priced plants. Everything about the ordering process reeks of deceit as well.

The way I see it, he's one of two things: an idiot, or a cheat. I would not buy a plant from him unless you see it in person first. Buyer beware.

    Bookmark   October 8, 2008 at 12:20AM
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highjack(z6 KY)

I'm sorry your experience was bad and you got misnamed plants but I too have a list of vendors from whom I received incorrect plants. Your rant against him could have been less venomous and just stated the truth. It reminded me of a former member who ranted against Hauserman whenever the chance arose. And she brought the opportunity up every time a fly appeared on one of her plants.

I want to hear other peoples experiences with vendors be it Dr. Nasser or Hoosier Orchids or Hauserman or any other vendor out there. I am more apt to believe the bad press when it is done is a civil manner, stating the facts without personal insults thrown around.

I guess I want to live in an idealistic world where I am presented with the facts and I can make up my own mind rather than reading something vitriolic on a faceless forum.

It is raining here so I am in a good mood today - aren't you glad?


    Bookmark   October 8, 2008 at 7:16AM
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bcfromfl(z8a NW FL)

It's situations like this when I really miss OGRES. Sure, it had its, when disgruntled customers posted bad reviews before first trying to work out a satisfactory resolution with the nursery. This slanted reviews occasionally, and brought legal issues against OGRES from nursery owners who felt unjustly condemned.

But a "central clearinghouse" -- so to speak -- has tremendous value, especially in an industry where 90% of the business is conducted over the internet or by phone. Other retail operations are rated and reviewed on the web, so why not nurseries? The review processs has largely cleaned up unsavory types on eBay, for example, as long as you stick with vendors with a large number of auctions to their credit. The reason why orchid customers need an extra level of protection is that evaluations of plants are generally subjective, and depend upon the judgments placed on such by the seller. Photos help, but don't always tell the whole story. This is vastly different than purchasing electronics, for example, when the quality should be identical for factory-sealed units.

Although my situation was different, in context with MrB's experience it becomes more relevant. I also know of one other individual with an unsatisfactory experience...and I've barely discussed this nursery with others a handful of times. There must be others.

Mr. Nasser freely throws his title around as if it lends credence to his knowledge of orchids. It should be pointed out, however, that his degree has nothing whatsoever to do with botany. As such, even this seemingly minor detail is misleading. Discipline to earn an advanced degree, perhaps, but nothing more.

MrB -- I know you won't be able to recover all of your costs, but there's a respectable market for angs on eBay, especially well-grown specimens that are bloomers. Bilobas are pretty common since they are available wholesale from Oak Hill, but if yours are nice, perhaps they'd be worth $25 apiece.


    Bookmark   October 8, 2008 at 2:05PM
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mrbreeze(z6/7 OK)

I only post a rant about him when one of the overpriced plants I got blooms out to be something ...else. I believe this is the third, maybe fourth, in a row.

But you're right, Brooke. I left out one possibility in my last sentence. He is either an idiot, a cheater, ...or... he is just innocently making the same mistake over and over again with multiple customers over many years.

Knowing his reputation beforehand, I even added quite a bit of extra money as incentive not to cheat me. It didn't work. What baffles me, is that he would make a ton of money and have lots of repeat customers, me included, if he would just label his @#$%^& plants properly.

    Bookmark   October 8, 2008 at 11:51PM
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