help with coconut growth and sago Palm growth rates

mushibu10(zone 8 (UK))January 10, 2014

hello!!

so I am New here - desired to join after you show up every time I search something in Google.

so I have a coconut palm from store bought nut. it's a year or so old and I'd like to know when it's true fonds will come through it grow mostly during put heatwave. we had for 7 weeks! (temp avg 32-35C) i thought it might have given me the true found then. so how long could it take?

and my sago Palm (bought) it is growing it shows signs of growing it isn't growing fonds outgrowing the "scale spikes" and it's caudeux is expanding it was size of a small orange (not as small as a satsuma) it's now size of grapefruit. what Is it doing?

plant care given; both sit under a 125w 6400k (blue spectrum) cfl bulb for minimum or 10 hours aday sago watered every other day and once a week soaked in a bucket of water, coconut watered once a week with a mug (about 170ml) water and misted daily.

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tropicalzone7(7b)

Very nice coconut palm! When you get split fronds will depend on if you have a dwarf coconut palm variety or a tall coconut palm variety. I have both so I'll give you my experience in New York City. My summers are hotter than yours and the sun's a bit higher but I don't think the growth will be significantly different.
I got my dwarf coconut palm as a new sprout in June 2009. It began showing signs of splitting fronds in summer of 2010 but the fronds were not fully splitting until 2011 (2 years).
I got my tall variety in 2010. The growth was fast and it ended up being a lot taller than my dwarf variety even though it still had it's juvenile leaves. It split its leaves this summer, 2013 (3 years).

So generally they take 2 to 3 years in pots to start growing adult leaves. They look beautiful both ways though and I got more compliments from it when it had juvenile leaves than I do from people now that it has adult leaves although I personally like it both ways!

As for your sago, those scale spike things are probably a new flush of leaves, but unless it is getting a lot of sun, the leaves grow ridiculously long and don't look normal. I have never been able to get a sago to make normal leaves because mine always used to flush indoors when it needs outdoor sun.

Depending where you live in the UK you might be able to grow sagos outside. Their fronds burn in the low 20s usually or about -6C and it will probably die at -8C.
If you cant grow sagos in the ground just make sure they stay in a very cool spot in your house and completely neglect them except for maybe a little water when it's very dry. The goal is to get it to only actively grow when it's outdoors so the fronds grow in normally.

Good luck!!
-Alex

    Bookmark   January 10, 2014 at 1:44PM
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mushibu10(zone 8 (UK))

thank you for the great reply, I don't actually know what type of coconut it is. I've had several store coconuts germinate real fast (about two months) and yes the juvenile fonds are great since Monday it has grown 1/2inch upwards (New fond) it's just marvelous!

the sago that's the crown I'll upload link to dropbox

in recent Years it's far to cold for the sago and if the leaves die can be years before they come back I don't want that so it sits on window cill turns 3 times a week. it gets a 10.6-4.4-1.7. (original babybio.co.UK) fertilizer once a week 2 drips to half pint

Here is a link that might be useful: more coconut and sago Palm images

    Bookmark   January 11, 2014 at 5:52AM
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subtropix

Alex, is right on about the Sago. Unfortunately, they are not the greatest 'houseplant', in my opinion. (They wanna be outside!) I gave a smaller one to a friend in NYC and it grew into something fairly hideous in an overheated NYC apartment. I have several specimens of C. revoluta that are quite huge. They never come into the house--too big, too prickly and warm enough so that they would soon get buggy. I move them into a sunny but minimally heated, detached garage in December and back out in early March. Actually, they got watered today for the first time since December 1st. If you can possibly keep them between 32 and 55F. in the Winter, and dry, this will prevent the deformed growth. Then, sun and heat outdoors to encourage good growth. Not sure how they respond outdoors in the cooler UK, but that's what microclimates are all about. I need to protect mine from the strongest sun and heat, in the UK, a warm, brick, south-facing wall should be warm enough to encourage good growth. Good luck.

    Bookmark   January 12, 2014 at 2:40PM
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patbatzu(10a)

Honestly Coconuts grow best outside in full high sunlight. You live quite far north the suns rays are not as strong as they are down here in the tropics. I live in Palm Bay, Florida and I seem to have problem with mine outside 2-3 times a year i need to protect it from cold spells. I suggest a south-east west facing window that gets lot and lots of light and in the cold months avoid giving it too much water as that will rot the roots and the bud. Killing the plant.

    Bookmark   January 12, 2014 at 10:45PM
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mushibu10(zone 8 (UK))

thank you both, sago is showing signs of growth - got several new (spiky scales) coming through in this week.

the sun here is useless in winter it's only just risen (7.54am) and it never goes above 50-70deg high in winter but in summer it is right on top and sits there from 10am till around 4pm and then it moves to the back.

my coconut. is doing quite well I know they are very hard to care for when they don't get what they want. also what feed ratios should I give the coconut?

I didn't think Florida would have cold wether your what few hundred mile from equatorial center?

and the sago will go out in March then (parents house has garden) harsh frost should have past by then should just be a. light one

thank you

leo

    Bookmark   January 13, 2014 at 3:00AM
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mushibu10(zone 8 (UK))

thougth you might like to see the New leaf coming through

    Bookmark   January 13, 2014 at 10:16AM
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tropicalzone7(7b)

It looks good! It will probably be fully open in about a month. Definitely bring it in a very high light area or try to keep it as cool (but not below freezing) as possible until you can take it outside in the spring to keep the new flush of fronds from getting very "leggy" in the low light indoors.
Keep us updated!
Thanks for sharing.
-Alex

    Bookmark   January 13, 2014 at 4:16PM
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mushibu10(zone 8 (UK))

well it sits on window cil al day all night under a grow light (light not on at night)

and one last thing

what fertilizer shall I use (I only have basic house plant) I can get tomatoes and citrus and orchid feed. for both coconut and sago

    Bookmark   January 14, 2014 at 2:36AM
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patbatzu(10a)

@Mushibu I live in Central Florida. Palm Bay are to be exact we have a few nights a year where it can get down to the upper 30's F. With a very strong north wind out of the arctic northwest over North America it can drop to about 34F is the lowest I have seen in 10 years. That being said I cover my plants below 45F My coconut tree is about 25 feet tall and Fresh coconut although they are small and don't taste that good, But I have them lol. I have dozens of palms in my yard. I am on the northern extent of the Cocos Nucifera range in North America.

    Bookmark   January 14, 2014 at 12:02PM
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us_marine

Nice coco! Wish they sold more of the green types over here although it seems only the golden malayan survives long term for some reason over here in Cali. Not sure what type of fertilizer is best but I would hold off on that for a while until you can take it outside. Or you'll end up burning the roots/fronds.

- US_Marine

    Bookmark   January 15, 2014 at 3:05PM
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tropicalzone7(7b)

I think if your sago is next to a window and under a grow light the flush of fronds should grow normally! Good luck and keep us updated on how it fills out.
-Alex

    Bookmark   January 16, 2014 at 2:58AM
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mushibu10(zone 8 (UK))

thank you all the New fonds are about 3inchs now and looking good

and I didn't think that Florida being so close to equator would have frost

thank -ou

    Bookmark   January 16, 2014 at 7:35AM
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patbatzu(10a)

I got my Coconut palm and my Christmas palm Protected tonight look frost advisory. They are wrapped in sheets but we do get at least 1-3 frost a year. last year we had one this year we have had 2 so far. But they cold does not last very long it usually dissipates in about 6-12 hours.

http://www.weather.com/weather/alerts/localalerts/32905?phenomena=FR&significance=Y&areaid=FLZ047&office=KMLB&etn=0001

    Bookmark   January 16, 2014 at 5:29PM
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mushibu10(zone 8 (UK))

oh one last question the frounds do they come out all at once or leaf by leadf? cause I only see one.

    Bookmark   January 18, 2014 at 5:10AM
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subtropix

What you see emerging will be a single leaf. Mine do not 'flush' in the Winter because they are kept too cool and dry for new growth. But when mine do flush, they will put out anywhere from several to a dozen or more new leaves, so that they will, within a short period of time (weeks), dramatically in crease in size. Note, new growth, as it is emerging, is tender and easily damaged. Within a two week period, the new, tender growth will gradually turn indestructible. P.S., I wonder if cycads are grown anywhere outdoors in the UK. Your Winters are not so much of the problem as lack of growing season heat (and maybe light intensity).

    Bookmark   January 18, 2014 at 5:40AM
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mushibu10(zone 8 (UK))

the channel islands maybe able to grow them out aide that is Jersey Guernsey isle white maybe Cornwall (lowest part of UK mainland)

thank you syou are saying I will only have a single leaf? and when you say dry do you mean bone dry?

and the coconut palm when the feathered frounds come in does the Palm shrink again? so lose its hight till the trunk grows?? cause when you see them on tv (watching death in paradise BBC show highly amusing crime drama) the young cocus with bi tipped frounds are taller than other cocus ones with feathery frounds hope you understand that

thankbyou

    Bookmark   January 18, 2014 at 11:25AM
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subtropix

I will handle the cycad question because I really do not understand the coconut inquiry.

I keep the cycads dry because they are in my detached, sunny garage for the Winter. They come out in early March. Winter temps may range from 60-40 with a minimum of maybe 35 F.. I dragged them out a couple of weeks ago in a heavy rain, but may have to water once again before they go outside again in March. This works for C.revoluta but also some Dioon and at least one species of Encephalartos. Indoors, with warmer temps, you will need to water more. When I tried overwintering Sagos in the house, they would develop deformed Winter growth and get mealy bugs--not an at all when I stopped bringing them into the house.

    Bookmark   January 18, 2014 at 2:03PM
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mushibu10(zone 8 (UK))

so I am applying New top toil (seedling soil low nutrients) to make it look better on top as underneath is Sandy cacti soil and fish tank gavel and are the roots s'posed to be dry?

    Bookmark   January 21, 2014 at 6:49PM
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us_marine

Make sure you mix the new soil with at least the top portion of the existing soil. Water doesn't flow very well in soil that abrubtly changes texture. If you mix it you won't have that problem plus your get the nutrients closer to the roots. And those are dead roots. But don't worry there is a ton more under the coconut shell. Trust me! Coconut roots grow fast. I had just got a golden malayan about the same age/size as your coco back in april. By september it had roots growing out the bottom and into the ground even after I put it in a larger container.

- US_Marine

    Bookmark   January 21, 2014 at 9:43PM
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mushibu10(zone 8 (UK))

thank you

now I wonder can you tell me why this is happening to the coconut? (see image)

Leo

    Bookmark   January 24, 2014 at 11:39AM
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mushibu10(zone 8 (UK))

hello so it's grown the sago, one of the frounds looks lanky but I have two new ones coming through. as you can see

    Bookmark   February 4, 2014 at 4:38PM
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mushibu10(zone 8 (UK))

and this is the "lanky" fround!

    Bookmark   February 4, 2014 at 4:42PM
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sagolover(10a SoCal)

That leaf looks like it's not all grown and opened and hardened yet.

    Bookmark   February 7, 2014 at 12:23PM
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tropicalzone7(7b)

The new frond is definitely a little lanky but I have seen a LOT worse. I think it won't look too bad once it's fully opened and hardens off. Give it as much light as possible until then especially with those other 2 fronds coming through still.
Good luck!
-Alex

    Bookmark   February 8, 2014 at 3:30PM
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mushibu10(zone 8 (UK))

thank you both, yeah it's in centre of light now. but the next two frounds don't look lanky (the gaps between lower spikes are closer together)

thank you

    Bookmark   February 10, 2014 at 12:59PM
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sagolover(10a SoCal)

It's not a palm, so it has leaves and leaflets. ;)

    Bookmark   February 11, 2014 at 1:20AM
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mushibu10(zone 8 (UK))

I know Sago isn't a Palm its a Cycas but Palms and Cycas are in same group on herer so rather than post two question asking the same thing.

    Bookmark   February 20, 2014 at 1:01PM
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sagolover(10a SoCal)

They're not in the same group, they are so different: cycads (cycas are in the cycads family) reproduce through cones (closer to conifers) and they are dioecious, while palms are flowering and are monoecious. Not the same. :)

This post was edited by SagoLover on Thu, Feb 20, 14 at 16:42

    Bookmark   February 20, 2014 at 4:41PM
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tropicbreezent

Cycads are gymnosperms, same as conifers, etc., and are non-flowering plants. Their seeds are exposed, usually in cones. Palms are flowering plants, angiosperms, their seeds are enclosed in ovaries. Some palms are also monoecious.

    Bookmark   February 20, 2014 at 9:12PM
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sagolover(10a SoCal)

Tropicbreezent, my bad I forgot to specifically write about gymnosperms vs. angiosperms. :)

    Bookmark   February 20, 2014 at 9:39PM
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tropicbreezent

No worries Sagolover. What I just saw was an error of mine. What I meant to write was that some palms are dioecious. Most however are monoecious.

    Bookmark   February 21, 2014 at 10:04PM
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sagolover(10a SoCal)

Yeap, you're right. I didn't notice it, but most of the time I read something and I understand what I want. :D Then it's hard to see what was actually written because I see what I want to see. Hey, this might be a kind of disability and I might not know it.

    Bookmark   February 21, 2014 at 11:28PM
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mushibu10(zone 8 (UK))

this is my Sago now, the "lanky" fround now it's hardening doesn't looks to lanky and the others aren't as long but are long too :)

and thank you all I have had to look up the cone genus of trees as I got a monkey puzzle tree!! :)

thank you all

    Bookmark   February 25, 2014 at 4:26PM
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sagolover(10a SoCal)

I looks good, like a more mature leaf. Wait for others to grow, and you'll have such a great looking cycad!

(not that it's not great looking when it's younger, but when it matures it's a beauty!)

:)

    Bookmark   February 25, 2014 at 6:44PM
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mushibu10(zone 8 (UK))

yes the mature ones are great, the local garden centre has one that is 3ft tall 37 frounds and its a male but the other one they have hasn't shown its gender yet they say. and they both cost ã700 so so expensive haha

but when it's young you can Bonsai them!

thank you

    Bookmark   February 26, 2014 at 4:53AM
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lbinupland_zone_9(9)

I read this thread and kind of marvel. The effort people expend to grow plants in a hostile climate.

I bought a $5 sago 40 years ago when I bought my house, it is over six feet tall The male flower is (like) two feet long, every year for at least the past 15 years. A flush consists of at least two dozen fronds , (or leaves) if you prefer.

I have successfully raised and given away probably three dozen pups broken off from the parent plant. Most survive, maybe 80% but some don't.

It gets cold here, we are at 1700 ft. elevation and freezes some years but I have never had a sago show damage from frost. Plumaria, that's another crap shoot, but the sagos do very well here.

I have managed to keep twenty pups that are well established and in the ground. In other words, this climate is very agreeable for sagos and they are common all around here, seems like everybody has at least one?

I'm not rubbing your nose in it here; I salute the effort to grow (what is almost a tropical), in a climate which is not suitable. Good luck. LB

PS no coconut palms here, lots of King Palms but by far the most popular and numerous palm in this area is the Queen.

    Bookmark   March 4, 2014 at 11:25PM
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mushibu10(zone 8 (UK))

thabk you, and sorry for delay in reply, I went on holiday, and left sage out side, the young fronds was damaged by the once night of very light frost.

    Bookmark   April 5, 2014 at 10:51AM
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