Question: How the Sabal Palmettos are doing in VA,NC and SC?

Kokomo-JBJanuary 28, 2014

Given how bad this winter has been on the East Coast I would say that VA, NC and SC are experiencing a "normal average" winter that we usually have up in the NY Metro area. That said, I always wanted to bring up Sabal Palmettos to our area and the winter they are currently going through in VA, Nc and SC would be a good indication of what they can take. If you are from those states, I'd love to hear from you. Thanks!

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jfacendola

here in coastal se NC(z 8) the sabals all seem to be doing well so far. Mine have seen 11 degrees a few years ago with no damage. This winter the lowest has been about 16, but tonight is forecast to be the same except the crowns of all the palms are full of ice after the 1in plus of freezing rain that fell yesterday. I don't think I will be able to tell the extent of the damage until spring. Some of my other palms are not looking so hot, pindos (about 5-6 ft tall) are showing maybe 25% foliar damage, and a 4 ft tall European fan has about 50%. All the windmills look fine, but I'm expecting some spear damage once they start growing again. I think part of the trouble is that we are having days when it is 70, immediately followed by lows in the teens and sustained temps below freezing. This has repeated several times and each time the pindos look worse. Back to your question, I am always amazed on how well the sabals handle the wet and cold.

    Bookmark   January 29, 2014 at 12:02PM
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Kokomo-JB

Thanks for the response! So let me ask you, given your experience with Sabal Palmettos, how do you rate them as far as hardiness say compared to the Pindo, Med fan and Filifera? at what temp would you think you'd see a total failure of the palm?

Thanks!!

    Bookmark   January 29, 2014 at 1:07PM
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chadec(N.C.7b)

Sabals are hardier than all the palms you listed above. Both of my sabals still only show tip burn from 4F. Med fan and pindo are both 100% defoliated. Washies don't stand a chance of the coast, and I doubt any are growing in NC unprotected.

    Bookmark   January 29, 2014 at 7:23PM
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Kokomo-JB

Thanks Chad!!!
I'm gonna bring some up this spring and add them on a limited basis to my menu. The risk is slight because in the business world of Palms, they are considered weeds as they are found in the wild all over the place. Funny, I thought the Filiferas were tough and rated close to the Pindo but I guess that they won't cut it up here. So far, my Pindo's are in the worst shape and I'm hoping that they recover in the Spring. My Needles and Sabal Minors are laughing at this winter. My Fortunei's have definitely been stressed out but they are hanging tough. Last but not least...the miracle of this winter-my 3 gallon Mule...still hanging in!!!! Too bad it's a sterile plant because it's genes should be reproduced given what it has been through.

    Bookmark   January 29, 2014 at 10:15PM
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jfacendola

There are a few Washingtonias growing unprotected here in downtown Wilmington NC. There is one large one that has been growing behind some buildings for at least a decade (probably much more). There are a few others around that get defoliated every other year or so, but survive and have been around for at least the 7 years I have been here. I have never seen a sabal here look bad after a winter, unless it was a recent transplant that didn't make it. I think the problem with pushing the northern limits of a Sabal palmetto are their slow growth. The Washingtonias even when defoliated, have full crowns by the end of the summer and seem to store enough energy to handle being defoliated every few years. A defoliated sabal (from transplant) takes a couple good growing seasons here in hot NC to replace a full crown.

Here is a link that might be useful: mex fan downtown ILM

    Bookmark   January 30, 2014 at 9:46AM
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Kokomo-JB

Good Point. Transplanted Sabals with hurricane clips take about 2-3 years before they get their crowns back.

    Bookmark   January 30, 2014 at 11:48AM
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chadec(N.C.7b)

Not sure a hurricane cut transplant will last up north anyway. Better chance getting a smaller potted one and growing it. But I know you need the ' Right now' effect and they are cheap.

    Bookmark   January 30, 2014 at 12:12PM
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chadec(N.C.7b)

Not sure a hurricane cut transplant will last up north anyway. Better chance getting a smaller potted one and growing it. But I know you need the ' Right now' effect and they are cheap.

    Bookmark   January 30, 2014 at 12:27PM
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Kokomo-JB

I would need to either by potted Sabals or buy a whole bunch-they are really cheap B&B, replant them in 40 gallon buckets, keep them indoors and wait 2 years until the root system has regenerated. Then I can sell them and their transplant will establish easier.

    Bookmark   January 31, 2014 at 8:04AM
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Kokomo-JB

I would need to either by potted Sabals or buy a whole bunch-they are really cheap B&B, replant them in 40 gallon buckets, keep them indoors and wait 2 years until the root system has regenerated. Then I can sell them and their transplant will establish easier.

    Bookmark   January 31, 2014 at 8:13AM
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chadec(N.C.7b)

You would have a lot of money tied up in the sabals waiting for them to grow roots. But you could sell them for twice as much as a potted palm IMO.

I honestly believe the only trunking sabals that stand any chance are Birminghams, Brazorias and Louisianas. And so far Birminghams are the only ones that have not shown any damage in my yard.

    Bookmark   February 1, 2014 at 12:57AM
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Kokomo-JB

Don't know what type of Dwarf Palmettos I have but they seem to be fine so far.

    Bookmark   February 1, 2014 at 12:33PM
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Beach_bums(8a)

Sabal's don't do well here in VB. They're treated almost as an annual. Every spring the hotels pull out dead ones and plant new. I have a friend that, years ago, worked at a place on the oceanfront. He said they brought in a truckload of sabal's every spring to replace the dead ones. He said that, at the time, they only cost a hundred bucks apiece for a full grown specimen, delivered. I'm sure there are many sabal's here that have survived for years, but their growth rate is almost non existent. I have a 13 year old W. filifera that's been in the ground unprotected since I planted it from a one gallon pot and it's taller than any sabal I've seen. I just hope it survives this crazy winter!

    Bookmark   February 1, 2014 at 5:17PM
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chadec(N.C.7b)

And the difference is the washy was grown from a pot. The transplanted sabals are not hardy and require protection until their roots regrow. Still hard to believe a washy is surviving up there.

Good luck,

    Bookmark   February 1, 2014 at 5:23PM
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islandbreeze

I'm more surprised that a filifera can handle the high humidity in Virginia beach in the summer. I always assumed that the sabals made it through winter down there, thanks for sharing.

    Bookmark   February 1, 2014 at 6:01PM
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Beach_bums(8a)

chadec has a good point, the sabals come in here from zone 9 with no roots and a hurricane trim. They barely have time to recover before winter hits us here. Islandbreeze, I strongly suspect the filifera is actually a hybrid, I picked it up at a walmart in Sarasota for 3.97 and it was labeled as a robusta. It definitely has the stout trunk of a filifera, but also has some brown on the petioles like robusta.

    Bookmark   February 2, 2014 at 4:07AM
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dixieboy



    Bookmark   February 19, 2014 at 2:55PM
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dixieboy

It's been so long since i posted on here my message didn't go through. Washies burn here at 22 degrees or so but make a fast comeback dur'in warmer weather. Our sabals, butia, meds & windmills are fine, white oleander & sagos are pretty much burnt, 16 degrees for a low but unsual cold durations this year.

    Bookmark   February 19, 2014 at 3:07PM
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chadec(N.C.7b)

Amazing Carl, cant believe you only went down to 16. From the photos I seen of Garys place looked like some of his less hardy stuff got burned bad. I figured you all seen single digits too. We went down to 1F on the Jan. 20th and that burnt my pindos, sabals, and windmills that were in the open.

    Bookmark   February 20, 2014 at 5:36AM
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dixieboy

Chad, Gary don't get the benifits of the big bodies of water like i do here, sometimes the differences in temps are hard to believe.

    Bookmark   February 20, 2014 at 7:24AM
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dixieboy

Our volunteer sabal

our live oaks in one of the snows

Morehead City

Morehead City

Next three are in Carolina Beach

    Bookmark   February 20, 2014 at 3:28PM
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chadec(N.C.7b)

Awesome pics, love all moss hanging off the trees. I will be headed down to S.C. next week, if Gary is available I would love to take the long way home. And bring a few newbies home with me.

    Bookmark   February 20, 2014 at 7:13PM
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dixieboy

Chad, here's a good look at what's happen'in on Bald Head
3 pics
Notice pic #2 it's one i took in 03 of a SP in a wooded area,
now notice #3 the same tree is cleared of the woods (in left back ground) & stands out & is one of the natives, one beautiful native NC sabal palmetto, moral of story is that they are realizing what they have there!!

    Bookmark   February 20, 2014 at 8:30PM
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dixieboy

Considering the one we had here, happy!

    Bookmark   February 21, 2014 at 10:55AM
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dixieboy

Nice day today in the lower 60's.

    Bookmark   February 22, 2014 at 9:23PM
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Beach_bums(8a)

We took a walk down to the beach today and took these pictures about 45 minutes ago. All the Sabal's we saw were burnt. While they may eak through another summer, I doubt they will be strong enough to make it through next winter. Most will be replaced by the hotel owners this spring anyway. My Washingtonia is completely brown except for the petioles, but if the spear survives, it will push out enough fronds during the summer to easily get it through a mild winter. Sabal's here just don't grow fast enough to catch up before winter comes again.


If the fronds are burned, most hotels just pull the whole tree because they are so slow to recover, if they do.

Even King Neptune can't believe the carnage.


Pindo's were burned but will make it.


My Washingtonia is totally burnt but if it survives it will have about 30 new fronds by fall.

    Bookmark   February 23, 2014 at 1:23PM
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dixieboy

Poor sabals & butias, maybe in a more sheltered location, how do the sabals on the sheltered side of the condo's look?

Your washingtonia looks like it has a nice uniform trunk & by the last of July should be strutt'in it's stuff again, great report from VB!!

    Bookmark   February 23, 2014 at 3:00PM
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Beach_bums(8a)

The sabals on the sheltered side and in in courtyards look fine, maybe some tip burn. There were some small butias in large concrete containers just a few feet away from where the in-ground butia pics were taken and they looked fine. I think they may have been low enough to be protected from the cold, dry arctic winds.

    Bookmark   February 23, 2014 at 3:22PM
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williamr

I would not have guessed that Sabal palmetto struggles and often fails in VA Beach (from normal winters). I see that it got down as low as 1F there this winter with quite a few days in the low 20s, with lots of hours in the teens and high winds and snow. I am certainly not surprised the palms look really bad, considering the cold this area experienced.

    Bookmark   February 23, 2014 at 10:57PM
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dixieboy

Speaking of this winters weather, these are scenes of Garden City south of Mrytle Beach, ice storms are the worst!

    Bookmark   February 24, 2014 at 8:48AM
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chadec(N.C.7b)

I have family there they said it was the worst winter ever. Right now I am in Myrtle Beach. Every Washingtonia and CIPD here are completely fried. Sagos and newly planted hurricane cut palmettos are hit or miss. Older palms look uneffected by this past winter. I dont even see much damage on any of the agaves.

    Bookmark   February 24, 2014 at 8:05PM
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dixieboy

older established trees & cold hardy, that's what we put our money on Chad, worries tend to be much less!!!

    Bookmark   February 24, 2014 at 10:58PM
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dixieboy

One of our of our minors after hurricane irene

And last month, lots of trouble with leaf skeletonizer in between but have learned how to deal with it recently.

    Bookmark   February 26, 2014 at 11:44AM
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LagoMar(USDA 8/AHS 7)

Except for those hurricane cuts dug directly out of fields and plopped into the sand at the Oceanfront, the thousands of Palmettos in Virginia Beach look fine! No WINTER damage to speak of (get out your microscopes), but if they were improperly planted and did not establish themselves to begin with, of course they look bad. They looked bad in September! Some folks have difficulty telling the difference between winter damage and bad planting damage.

    Bookmark   February 27, 2014 at 1:16PM
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dixieboy

Looks to me like the butia was put in a nice planting bed, they are winter burned just like the SP's.

    Bookmark   February 27, 2014 at 1:44PM
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Plant1truth_teller(7A)

I live in Southeast Va and have to say that Palmettos do wonderfully here. Beach Bum is not correct at all. He is looking entirely at the beachfront-planted-in-pure-sand-in-high-winds-and-uncared-for-HC-B&B specimens to document. These palms are in no way the standard planting type or size necessary for this area. The Va Beach folks in charge of this or a part of this need to be educated on better specimen palms for planting -container grown instead of B&B, HC. We have thousands of beautiful Palmettos in this area, a bunch in Norfolk, mostly planted from container, bunches in Suffolk from container, etc. Palmettos are great in SE Va and have performed wonderfully in the super cold this year. Va Beach is either one big sand pile or one big clay pit which makes it hard to grow much. Come to Norfolk and Suffolk, etc where the soils are so much better.

    Bookmark   February 27, 2014 at 6:56PM
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LagoMar(USDA 8/AHS 7)

Wow, thank you truth teller. you really live up to your name! I took a couple of hours taking pics of palmettos and Butia in VB today, including at Neptune. You only need to turn your camera the other direction (literally) to see some great looking palms. Honestly, the Ocean Front palms (Ocean facing) were the only rough ones to be found. I posted pics of Neptune palmettos in November before any freezing weather and Dixie Boy said they looked like crap. He knows that winter had nothing to do with damage on those palmettos. I'm not sure about Beach Bum, but I love his/her Washy and look forward to seeing it again after full recovery in a couple of months. I'm not sure how to post all the pics in this forum but will over at Hardy Palms and Subtropicals.

    Bookmark   February 27, 2014 at 7:12PM
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Plant1truth_teller(7A)

Wiliamr, you have guessed correctly normally: palmettos do great in SE Va. There is a long running struggle in the city of Va Beach among many old members of the city who do not care for palms -rather siding with tired old political boundary plantings (Virginia-centric Williamsburg/Charlottesville style) rather than the scientific method of selecting plants -which is those plants that grow well and are native in the Southeast Coastal Plain of which Se Va squarely lies. Historically selecting plants recognized more within certain political boundaries, as many Va Beach people do, rather than properly selecting plants from the scientific SE Coastal Plain, has caused decades of confusion and unhealthy plantings in Va Beach and Se Va. If folks here would select plants more situated for the SE Coastal Plain then we'd be much better off. The ongoing struggle in Va Beach between palm/plant lovers and palm/plant non lovers has caused an obvious stressed look to the current palm plantings.

    Bookmark   February 27, 2014 at 7:15PM
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LagoMar(USDA 8/AHS 7)

In the interest of also being a "truth teller". The damage to the Butias really is winter damage. According to the local NWS stations that were verified legit, we had lows between 6-15 depending where in the city you live (6 in the NW at Norfolk International and 15 in the SE at RAWS Back Bay). At the Ocean Front probably much closer to the 15. Approximately 70% of the Butia in the city had at least some damage, many severe. Ocean Front more like 35% were damaged. 75% of the Chamaerops Humilis were damaged, and that seemed the same both Ocean Front and inland. Damage to palmettos was of the extremely minor leaf tip variety if any. Palmettos that look bad now already looked bad in November, and was a result of poor sitting and care, not due to winter damage. Now those places that chose to suffocate their palms with shrink wrap are clearly at Gods mercy (well, we all are, but you hopefully catch my point).

Here is something at Neptune if you turn your camera left.

    Bookmark   February 27, 2014 at 7:36PM
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Plant1truth_teller(7A)

Yes, the more green-colored Butias took the cold better than the silvery ones. This is a fact. Per Dixieboy: He does not know any better. He and his copatriots there in NC are not tellin the whole truth on the palmettos in eastern NC. And I'm not the only one sayin this.

    Bookmark   February 27, 2014 at 8:21PM
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Plant1truth_teller(7A)

I think Dixieboy is posting other people's pictures to say that they are his property. I doubt that he knows where they came from.

    Bookmark   February 27, 2014 at 8:35PM
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LagoMar(USDA 8/AHS 7)

No, Dixieboys pics are mostly from last fall. I'd like to see Butia in that part of NC now. More than one, please. Re: the Butia, what I've noticed is that the ones with thicker fronds (maybe they are more established?) did much better. Those with more wispy looking fronds were singed. Any idea what the difference between the two is?

    Bookmark   February 27, 2014 at 8:59PM
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Plant1truth_teller(7A)

I'd like to see that part of NC now too,but doubt Dixieboy will show pics now. I also want to see that Newbern character's palm nursery and his palmettos after this snow and ice. I bet they are all messed up.

    Bookmark   February 28, 2014 at 6:45AM
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Plant1truth_teller(7A)

The truth is that people here should be planting more Sabal Louisianas, Brazorias, Roseiis and Tamaulipas before regular palmetto.These are much hardier and often better looking. If the folks in Va Beach would get the word on this then theyd be much better off. But they are left in the dark on good truthful palms.

    Bookmark   February 28, 2014 at 6:49AM
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LagoMar(USDA 8/AHS 7)

Those are hardier I'm sure, but clearly Palmetto is 100% hardy here, so why not? We just need to be smarter about it. Plopping Palmetto poles into the sand and forgetting about them is not working. We do have some places like Paradise Palms putting the field grown back into pots which are planted in fields to get their roots back into good shape. I've seen them root bound and head grown back from hurricane cut before being planted. Those will thrive! If you have the patience they'll grow from seed here. I've grown them from pots (the ones in the first pic I posted on this thread). Super hardy. Here is one from yesterday on Pacific at Jungle Golf. Very healthy. You can see that many healthy fronds were recently cut so people can walk by (it was so full it was crowding the sidewalk).

    Bookmark   February 28, 2014 at 7:12AM
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Plant1truth_teller(7A)

Yes I know that palmetto -have driven by often. It is clearly a seed grown palm. And the canopy is huge. Very healthy. Did not mean to suggest palmetto is not hardy -It IS very hardy here. The 4 others I suggested are good alternatives to the palmetto. I would still plant palmetto often and well, from container or seed grown, NEVER from a telephone pole in pure sand. (Why the folks in Va Beach do not see this, I do not know.) I have also made several trips through Norfolk and found what obviously seem to be container-planted palmettos at the Va Zoo and the botanical gardens that are quite -QUITE- healthy, as well as other parts of norfolk.

    Bookmark   February 28, 2014 at 8:53AM
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LagoMar(USDA 8/AHS 7)

Those sabal palmettos at Norfolk Botanical Gardens and Norfolk Zoo are perfect examples of extremely healthy container grown specimens! Here is another, been here off Lotus Rd in VB for longer than I have (20+ years). This was taken yesterday. it is in a back yard so not the greatest pic from the road.

    Bookmark   February 28, 2014 at 1:36PM
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Beach_bums(8a)

Jungle Golf pioneered commercial tropical landscaping in VB. It's worth the price of admission just to see the variety of plants they have in there. As I recall, when they first started, they were replacing quite a few sabals every season. The ones they have now have been established for years. There are a couple of small sabals on the east side of Zoe's restaurant about 6 blocks west of the beach that have been there for years with no protection or care and look as healthy as any you'd see in NC or SC. Palms extract food and trace minerals from fronds until they're brown so hurricane trims can be a death sentence here. At the oceanfront there are many sabals planted on the oceanside of the hotels that endure frigid nor'easters and the shade of buildings after 2 pm. They're lucky if they survive three seasons, and if they do, they look terrible.

    Bookmark   February 28, 2014 at 2:29PM
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LagoMar(USDA 8/AHS 7)

Beach Bums, did you hear about the fire at Jungle Palms? I don't know when it will reopen. I will have to check out Zoe's. Thanks for the tip! Hurricane cut palmettos dug directly out of the fields can be in trouble even in Florida, especially being planted in sand and subject to high winds. I am excited to see your Washy in a few months!

    Bookmark   February 28, 2014 at 3:40PM
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LagoMar(USDA 8/AHS 7)

BTW, I have a pic of Jungle Golf when it opened in 1970, and I compared it to a current picture. I believe this palm is an original! This was taken in December.

    Bookmark   February 28, 2014 at 4:16PM
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Beach_bums(8a)

I walked down there the day of the fire, the damage was confined to pretty much to the game room. Of course the fire department probably caused more damage than the fire but that's a necessary evil. Jungle Golf is still open, but the inside area is closed. Thanks for the current picture of the sabal. The trunk tells the whole story. Looks like it struggled for a few years before it took off. Makes sense because we had some bad winters back then.

    Bookmark   February 28, 2014 at 9:17PM
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Plant1truth_teller(7A)

Lago Mar, that palmetto in Sandbridge is great. I see a lot around here that look like that. They do just fine. Another place to find great looking palmettos is at Capn George's Seafood on Laskin Rd. Drove by tonight and saw lots of excellent healthy palmettos with full heads (and NO plastic).

    Bookmark   February 28, 2014 at 10:15PM
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LagoMar(USDA 8/AHS 7)

Oh yes, Captain Georges is outstanding! Someday the city should ask the folks who did Captain Georges and Hiltop Plaza to line Atlantic Ave for them.

    Bookmark   March 1, 2014 at 9:48AM
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Beach_bums(8a)

In my dreams, the city replaces all the bradford pears east of Great Neck with sabals.

    Bookmark   March 1, 2014 at 10:24AM
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islandbreeze

Might not be a bad idea to replace more trees with sabals in VB, or at least with trachycarpus. I'm sure the palms in VB help with bringing more vacationers and tourists to the area. In the summer, it's like Florida but closer to home.

BTW, nobody mentioned the needle palms in VB. The first mature needle I saw was at a put-put golf course in VB. Probably the only reason I still try to grow them. They are really nice looking palms when mature even though they don't trunk.

    Bookmark   March 1, 2014 at 10:51AM
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tropicalzone7(7b)

I agree, I think replacing a lot of the overused and underqualified trees (like Bradford pears) with palms like Sabals and Trachys would be great for the city! VB relies a lot on tourism and tourist love palms. Plus Sabals and Trachys are a lot less likely to cause problems during storms than bradford pears which are guaranteed to lose branches even during minor wind events.

And I agree islandbreeze. Needle palms in general don't get the respect they deserve. They are beautiful palms and extremely cold hardy!

-Alex

    Bookmark   March 1, 2014 at 7:20PM
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chadec(N.C.7b)

You should have more than just sabals looking good in Va. Our pindos look good as far in as Rockingham, far from a coastal town. Raleigh area pindos are burned, mature sabal at PDN looked good as did all minors and trachies. Coastal towns saw damage to dates, washies and sagos.

This phoenix is at an abandoned building, which is why none of the palms have been pruned yet. The only one I was able to photogragh, all others are just stumps.

Trachy on the left is the Trachy 'Takil' taken last Sat. at PDN.

If your sabals don't look like these then maybe you should drive to that place in Newbern and get you some real palm trees instead of telephone poles.

Chad,

    Bookmark   March 1, 2014 at 7:41PM
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dixieboy

Oh come on now Chad, surely your not say'in those Myrtle Beach sabals look as good as these sabals in SE Virginia.

    Bookmark   March 1, 2014 at 8:13PM
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LagoMar(USDA 8/AHS 7)

Shame on you, Dr. Cornelius! You know better than that! You should leave that pettiness over on the other board where they are used to that kind of thing.

    Bookmark   March 2, 2014 at 12:54PM
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dixieboy

The photo taker said there use to be butia planted there but when they died windmills replaced them, shame VB, shame, you need to stick to bradford pears!!!!

    Bookmark   March 2, 2014 at 1:58PM
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LagoMar(USDA 8/AHS 7)

Those Windmills in that last pic are not doing well either. Virtually zero watering and being grown in raised concrete beds like that (that isn't the ground they are in and it is facing away from the prevailing winds under an overhang for pedestrians) will kill any plant they try out there. They are welcome to try Bradford Pears since I could care less if Bradfords die. The fact of the matter is, its the Hilton, they have money to burn. Those are annuals in those pots. Bradford Pears are quite prolific in VB and only suffer during high winds. I guess that is a problem? Oh well, as long as Palmettos grow great here I'm cool with it.

    Bookmark   March 2, 2014 at 4:05PM
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dixieboy

Breath tak'in sabal beauties in VB, reminds me of Myrtle Beach, NOT!!!!!

    Bookmark   March 2, 2014 at 4:35PM
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chadec(N.C.7b)

I wish the sabals in my yard looked half that good. After 1F 6 weeks ago there is barely in any green left in the spears. Pindos look worse even with a frost cloth and Christmas lights this yr was too much. My sabal Birminghams are the only palms that have not shown any damage. Louisianas have some tip burn and Brazoria is a let down. All non hybrid minors are bullet proof of course.

During winter the fronds were tied up. Box opened because of outside temps.

Carl, I remember buying that palm as a minor. You telling me it was a sabal long before it ever started forming a trunk. Good call!

    Bookmark   March 7, 2014 at 10:51PM
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williamr

Oceana NAS is in VA Beach (rather than Norfolk) and did get to 1F, so despite the conflicting reports, it doesn't surprise me to see photos of many Sabal palmettos looking rough at best. I am glad to read that the seed grown ones are mostly doing well. Even the hurricane cut planted ones here tend to look skinny and haggard for years, if not permanently. A significant percentage of these die here after planting, too.

Bradford pears (temperate trees) should be suitable to the climate of VA Beach, even if not the most interesting or elegant landscaping choice. Kind of like silver maples in the Midwest. We even have a few that I know of here in northern Orlando. These few do okay, but never bloom due to lack of winter chill. One near me did actually have some flowers after the extended chilly winter of '09-'10.

    Bookmark   March 8, 2014 at 2:28PM
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dixieboy

Chad, sorry about the latest round y'all went through out there, this winter has been rough stuff for sure. Except for sagos get'in toasted, we are thankful here in our area.

Williamr, i've found that start'in from seed or small containers is the best bet, in my case the cold hardies do great.

    Bookmark   March 8, 2014 at 5:11PM
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Plant1truth_teller(7A)

Dixieboy, get a life.

    Bookmark   March 8, 2014 at 8:08PM
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Plant1truth_teller(7A)

As a mater of fact, Dixieboy, I live in eastern NC, not tellin where, an know quite well your area. Not 5 minutes away from you inland palmettos often look skimpy and thin -lots of new ones and even ol' ones- so you and your easten NC area are not immune from bad lookin palms. Why you pick on Va Beach? They grow some beautiful palmettos. Who also fills me in is that fella in New Bern who confides in me that your little area is but a tiny are of decent palm growin, but inland just a few things start to take a rough turn.. He tells me you might be stretchin the truth a spell.

    Bookmark   March 8, 2014 at 8:27PM
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Plant1truth_teller(7A)

And this is what I found last spring in the Va Beach area for palmettos. Most palms in the area looked like this, even norfolk.:

    Bookmark   March 8, 2014 at 8:31PM
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Plant1truth_teller(7A)

And here's another from Norfolks botanical gardens someone sent me:

    Bookmark   March 8, 2014 at 8:42PM
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Plant1truth_teller(7A)

and another from a fella I found in norfolk from that botenical gardens: Why you make fun of Se Va palmettos??

    Bookmark   March 8, 2014 at 8:46PM
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williamr

In reference to your pic of the palmettos planted around the sunny street corner, most of the Sabal palmettos in the northern Panhandle of FL do not look that good. I used to travel to Southern AL frequently and would take the Defuniak Springs exit. The Sabal palmetto there looked skinny and sparse and definitely like they were not growing in conditions that are ideal year round. I suspect that this is at least partially related to the hurricane cut issue too. Still, many of the Sabal palmetto you see from Lake city north in FL just do not look like the ones further south.

The native range of Sabal palmetto does not include most of the FL Panhandle. Hard to believe that Bald head Island, NC is part of this species native range, yet Tallahassee, FL is not. This is interesting since average temps for extreme SE North Carolina are lower than those of Tallahassee, and all time record lows are similar.

    Bookmark   March 9, 2014 at 12:18AM
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LagoMar(USDA 8/AHS 7)

Thank you for sharing those pictures, truth teller. I will have to follow up on that store that looked so beautiful. Hopefully they didn't hurricane cut and wrap. By the looks of your picture they haven't been in the habit of doing that there.

    Bookmark   March 9, 2014 at 9:21AM
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dixieboy

Williamr, a illustration of Bald Head island NC in pic #1 & then there's pic #2 in SE Virginia.

    Bookmark   March 9, 2014 at 3:30PM
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williamr

I don't know how anyone possibly thinks that plastic wrap will help at all. It can do the opposite actually, and as far as I know, it provides no off-setting benefit.

    Bookmark   March 9, 2014 at 5:58PM
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Plant1truth_teller(7A)

Dixieboy, I see the plastic wrap but I have to say that from Carolinas to Se Va the only places I seen plastic wrap is on the Va beach beachfront, no where else -really jest along the street along the beach. As you go in a few blocks you see no plastic. Im amazed sometimes what palmettos I see growin in SE va.

    Bookmark   March 9, 2014 at 8:13PM
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dixieboy

More of the same away from the beach, 'prince' charming!

    Bookmark   March 9, 2014 at 9:12PM
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chadec(N.C.7b)

OMG, anything but plastic. They are trying to kill the palms. Has nothing to with the sabals or location. Mummy wrap just does not work. Kevin can't remember his screen name had his windmill for 20 yrs in zone 4. Till last yr he switch to mummy wrapping. And guess what, it didn't make it.

    Bookmark   March 10, 2014 at 10:35AM
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JohnnieB(Washington, DC 7a/b)

Interesting that "plant1 truth teller" joined this discussion (and Gardenweb!) immediately after I posted a link to this discussion on the Hardy Palm & Subtropical discussion board, and sounds suspiciously like a fellow from Norfolk who quit that board not long before that. Oddly enough, first he claims to be from SE Virginia, then from NC and now even his grammar and spelling have changed so not sure just how much truth this guy is telling or who he's trying to fool...

    Bookmark   March 10, 2014 at 10:39AM
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JohnnieB(Washington, DC 7a/b)

So can anybody post any RECENT photos of any of these palms, showing what they look like AFTER this winter?

    Bookmark   March 10, 2014 at 10:42AM
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dixieboy

John, i posted this older VB pic on the other board with the question of if these SP's had the ability to fill back out as they do farther south, a resident of the area said he would go there to take a pic of the same angle there, i strongly suspect that he did & didn't care for what he saw.
PS i knew who 'plain truth' was from the first letter he typed!!

    Bookmark   March 10, 2014 at 11:03AM
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LagoMar(USDA 8/AHS 7)

Hey Dixie, thank you for your sincere concern about palms in your pictures. I have been posting pictures of gorgeous palms in VB all over the place. I also mentioned that I DID revisit those palms in your pic and indeed they had been hurricane cut and wrapped. Disgusting. Anyway, here is one I took TODAY, just like many others I've posted on both boards.

    Bookmark   March 14, 2014 at 2:17PM
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dixieboy

Hey, Lago, your palms up that way are beautiful!!

    Bookmark   March 15, 2014 at 3:21PM
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Loveplants2 8b Virginia Beach, Virginia

Here is my before..

This winter right after the 12 inches. Then the freezing cold settled in...
(Planted 19 years ago...)

I'll post another pic of the after when I get home for this trip..

Those pictures from the oceanfront have always had issues.. They can't handle the wind and they keep replacing them so they will never get established. The problem is that it is just to windy..

Now they have planted alot of Sabals at hilltop last year which look wonderful. I am Happy to see them thrive!! It. Makes the whole shopping center more inviting ..

Great thread!! I loved seeing all of the trees..

Mine are in VB near Great Neck...they have been planted for 19 yrs

Take care,

Laura

    Bookmark   March 16, 2014 at 2:51AM
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Loveplants2 8b Virginia Beach, Virginia

Summertime..

VB

That is my 23 year old son.. Working!!! ;-). Right

Laura

    Bookmark   March 16, 2014 at 2:57AM
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LagoMar(USDA 8/AHS 7)

Gorgeous, Laura! What an amazing yard you have! Thank you so much for posting these!

    Bookmark   March 16, 2014 at 7:15PM
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yeehova

My sabals in NC have some leaf burn and a few fronds broke due to heavy ice accumulation, but all three survived a 4 degree low which seems like a 25 year low for this area.

    Bookmark   April 15, 2014 at 8:40PM
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Plant1truth_teller(7A)

those are great palms Laura. It shows how good palms grow in Va Beach -espesialy those not on the ocean front. I have saw the ocean front palms and they take a beatin. Inland these same palms look 100 time better. I have also seen the new palmetos at Hiltop and they look great. The area in SE Va is thrivin with new palms, espesialy those planted inland away from ocean -where so many people think palms grow best, but wher we all know they do not grow well. The palms I seen also thru Norfolk, Portsmouth Cheasapeke look great, much better than the the ocean front. Inland VA Beach always has great palms too.

    Bookmark   April 19, 2014 at 9:11AM
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Loveplants2 8b Virginia Beach, Virginia

Hello Everyone....

Time to report the damage.. ;-(

Lagomar... Thank you, It's law us nice to hear kind words Nd I appreciate you telling me to hold on with mine. I also grow many plumeria and when you talk about " patience". I have it!! Lol. I have been working with my palms for about 20 years here in my area of VB and I honestly can say that its been the coldest winter I have seen in a long time. I'm a native 757 lady oh has been here a long time!! ;-)

Truth teller... Thank you. Inland is much better because we have a micro climate verses the constant winds that cause those trees at the oceanfront to have issues. I like to see the " tide" turning around here with the planting of palms here. I just hope it will continue and that they will be well cared for.

Carl, chad... Always nice to see you!!!

My Butias were hit hard. My friends down the street that have a palm business graciously cut away the dead fronds from the Butias. I will say that I was doubting their survival with temps down to 5 degrees and windchills in the -15 range. Just to cold for VB zone 8

I think I lost one.

The other three in the backyard have potential to make it. One is pushing green fronds and the other two are still holding on. Please forgive the pictures and the way the yard looks. I have a lot of work to do to get it back to the way it should be.

Ok... Gulp. Here they are.. It's hard to show. but, we all need to see and learn. Jordan... Many thanks to you. Xoxo

    Bookmark   May 2, 2014 at 12:27PM
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Loveplants2 8b Virginia Beach, Virginia

This is the Butia in the center island

    Bookmark   May 2, 2014 at 12:29PM
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Loveplants2 8b Virginia Beach, Virginia

Back near the water... I see some green! Yes!!!

    Bookmark   May 2, 2014 at 12:30PM
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Loveplants2 8b Virginia Beach, Virginia

Close up...

    Bookmark   May 2, 2014 at 12:32PM
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Loveplants2 8b Virginia Beach, Virginia

Sabal having issues.. I'm worried...

    Bookmark   May 2, 2014 at 12:34PM
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Loveplants2 8b Virginia Beach, Virginia

The last of the Butias in the back... I think they will make it. Patience.. Thank you!

I just want them to grow and be the best they can be. I'll fertilize and clean the bed and mulch. It's time for a new season.

Thank you all for this thread..

Hope you all can finely get out and get some yard work done. It's crazy to start this late for us... But, ill try and not complain!

Again... Justin, Jordan... You guys are the best. Thank you for trimming my trees. You did a great job. Now I'll get my son to trim the Sabals !!!

;-)

Take care,

Laura

    Bookmark   May 2, 2014 at 12:42PM
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LagoMar(USDA 8/AHS 7)

So yeah, pretty obvious the majority of pindos in the area were heavily damaged. More and more of the green ones show damage as the heat increases. Still some nice ones down at Oceanfront and neighborhoods within 2 miles of the Atlantic (LagoMar/Sandbridge, Croatan). I haven't been able to check the north end yet. I am guessing that is where you live, Laura? Other than the Pindos, your palms look very nice! A slight tinge of burn on some tips is nothing to worry about. I wonder what is eating your trunk on that one palmetto? I've seen that on a couple of them around, particularly that ancient one at Jungle Golf. Thank you for the update, Laura!

    Bookmark   May 15, 2014 at 3:36PM
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Loveplants2 8b Virginia Beach, Virginia

Thanks Lago Mar... I live off of Great Neck... Lots of damaged ones around here, it just so sad. I have seen some that have green pushing now.. So if they would clean them up, they would look a lot better.

I'm not sure of the damage to the big Sabal, but I did have one at our business and I did lose if after a few years. The trunk is peeling away, but it is looking green and lush, so I'm not sure what this is.

The good news is that all of the tress in the back yard will survive including the questioned Butias.. I just need to trim the Sabals and just be patient with Mother Nature. I did have to get rid of the other Butias in the front yard. It wasn't planted very deep and was the youngest of them all..

I'm very happy tho.. Thanks for asking.

I hope you didn't have any losses?

Take care and have a wonderful holiday weekend!!!

Laura

    Bookmark   May 24, 2014 at 12:08AM
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yeehova

Pretty much all of my little one or two year old seedlings that naturally sprouted have survived. Only the ones I planted myself look like the polar vortex hot them.

    Bookmark   May 25, 2014 at 7:58AM
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Plant1truth_teller(7A)

Great palmeto in your yard- Loveplants2. It seems palmetto fared the best in SE Va, far better than meny ever gave credit for.

    Bookmark   May 29, 2014 at 7:00AM
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yeehova

I just noticed the beginnings of the flower stalks on mine this morning. I'll try to take some pics maybe tomorrow morning when my Palms are in full morning sunlight as they are planted on the southeast side of my house.

    Bookmark   May 30, 2014 at 3:50PM
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yeehova

I just noticed the beginnings of the flower stalks on mine this morning. I'll try to take some pics maybe tomorrow morning when my Palms are in full morning sunlight as they are planted on the southeast side of my house.

    Bookmark   May 30, 2014 at 3:51PM
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islandbreeze

Beach_bums- has your washingtonia started recovery or is it dead?

    Bookmark   May 31, 2014 at 11:22AM
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