They cut her head off...

dragonflydeeApril 17, 2014

Her name was Amina Bint Abdul Halim Nassar.
She was beheaded in Saudi Arabia December 2011
For practicing witchcraft.

I had been researching Witch hunts in Europe timelines
On my IPad,and that information came up on the
Women's History.about.com site.

How creepy is that...

DD

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asleep_in_the_garden

Ignorance and fear lead to such things.

    Bookmark   April 17, 2014 at 6:10PM
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elvis

Terrible.

But! Saudi Arabia does have a national health care system, so there's that. I'm afraid it wouldn't have helped in this case, though.

Just thought I'd toss in my 2 cents since there is frequent whining here about how other countries do this or do that, and "why don't we?"

Well, here in the good old US of A we don't chop heads off.

    Bookmark   April 17, 2014 at 7:33PM
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Pidge

elvis, could you manage under any circumstances have said anything dumber than what you just did?

Witchburnings as a way to assault women has a long and sordid history in Europe and here in the USA (think Salem) and chopping heads off of women in any country is not even remotely surprising to those of us who have read the history of how women have been tortured, murdered, abused, and otherwise treated like garbage for centuries.

    Bookmark   April 17, 2014 at 7:48PM
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demifloyd(8)

You're right, Elvis

    Bookmark   April 17, 2014 at 8:23PM
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eibren(z6PA)

Right now in Saudi the nurses are demanding safer work conditions.

They are having an outbreak over there of something they call "MERS". I read about it on Croft's Blogs and another site while researching the Ebola outbreak--it is some sort of Coronavirus, like SARS is, and its been going on for awhile now. A nurse from Saudi landed with it in the Phillipines and infected his family--was tested for it in Saudi but wouldn't wait for the results. Now the Phillipines has to quarantine the whole family.

At this point, Saudi is probably wishing that instead of killing off their native witches they had trained them as nurses. I have a feeling there will be more exoduses of Phillipino nurses from there.

    Bookmark   April 17, 2014 at 8:25PM
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elvis

â¢Posted by pidge z6PA (My Page) on Thu, Apr 17, 14 at 19:48

"elvis, could you manage under any circumstances have said anything dumber than what you just did?"

Sweet. Sure, I had a real zinger for the Russian airplane thread, but restrained myself.

    Bookmark   April 17, 2014 at 8:26PM
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dragonflydee

But ,

Pidge I was sort of surprised myself because my background
Has mingled me with a number of retired military contractors
Who have worked over there for the Saudis, and I have been
Given the impression that they are flush with cash,and most
Of them don't even work...they have a lot of imported...
Well for a lack of a better word I guess "hired help" to run
Almost all services for them.
They have a lot of nice European goods...

I just thought "What?"...."For witchcraft?"

It just seemed not to fit...as a reason...

Yes I agree we women seem to be the historical standby scapegoats!

DD

    Bookmark   April 17, 2014 at 8:31PM
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ann_t

The good old USA. Now that is funny. Considering your good old USA still has the death penalty in many states. Methods that include hanging, firing squad, electrocution and lethal injection. Nothing to be proud about.

~Ann

    Bookmark   April 17, 2014 at 8:35PM
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elvis

I agree with the death penalty objection, Ann. I am against the death penalty: if one is guilty it's too easy and if one is innocent, it's unthinkable.

    Bookmark   April 17, 2014 at 9:00PM
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dragonflydee

eibren,

One of my contractor sources said that the Saudis did have
A lot of Phillipinos working for them in all sorts of service
And support positions and are very dependent on them!

Maybe they better start treating them better,no???

DD

    Bookmark   April 17, 2014 at 10:57PM
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jodik_gw

Fear and ignorance, indeed, Asleep... it goes deep, all this foul, patriarchal need to totally control the female of our species and find ways to justify the abuse and poor treatment.

Male insecurity, some unfounded fear that females ARE actually equal and deserving of equal time, perhaps some kind of envy that females are the givers of life, etc... the word "emasculated" comes to mind, though why the men of various cultures feel or believe this way is beyond me.

I'll never grasp the concept of thinking that one gender or orientation is better than another. Everyone has something to offer, something that compliments the other.

And then, we do still murder through the death penalty. How civilized are we, really? Nothing to be proud of, there.

    Bookmark   April 18, 2014 at 1:54AM
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asleep_in_the_garden

"Male insecurity, some unfounded fear that females ARE actually equal "

Men are expendable and they KNOW it.

Women no longer need them as much.

This is what happens when women are liberated and assume control of things.

So men do everything they can in desperation,trying to keep women down.

...just a personal opinion of mine.

    Bookmark   April 18, 2014 at 2:10AM
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batyabeth

DD, you apparently are confusing "the Saudis", with the elite, ruling class of wealthy citizens. You lump all Saudis into the same social/economic class. Your military contractor friends belong to, promote and protect the insulated elite. They probably had no contact with the poor or middle class, except through those who might wash their floors or do laundry.

Those non-elite who annoy their overlords - and most especially women, who in Saudi Arabia have NO rights - usually find themselves facing , well, let's call it the sharp end of the stick. My guess (and it's only a guess) is that this woman either was healing with herbs or using some ancient folk processes, and annoyed someone who had something to lose, or someone who simply could prove himself to the powers that be in some village.

It happens again, and again. Especially in Saudi Arabia, one of the most conservative and repressive in the Middle East.

Please remember that your contractor friends have a very skewed and one-sided view of the country, and it was in their interests to adopt a hear no evil, see no, etc, in order to curry favor with the business moguls who are an integral part of the monarchy/dictatorship of the country. And I can assure you they never saw a Saudi woman who didn't know and take her "place", especially among the poorer classes - if they saw her at all.

This post was edited by batya on Fri, Apr 18, 14 at 4:03

    Bookmark   April 18, 2014 at 3:41AM
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sleeplessinftwayne(z4-5 IND)

Pidge, please tell me the first and last time a person was legally executed in the United States for witchcraft.

    Bookmark   April 18, 2014 at 6:44AM
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jodik_gw

Men are not expendable... it still takes two. :-)

    Bookmark   April 18, 2014 at 7:21AM
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tobr24u(z6 RI)

Well, if enough sperm was frozen perhaps not...

    Bookmark   April 18, 2014 at 7:41AM
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PRO
Brushworks Spectacular Finishes(5)

Men are not expendable. That's the kind of stupidity that Pidge should challenge.

    Bookmark   April 18, 2014 at 7:55AM
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labrea_gw

Of course I have to bash religious hypocrisy. A prominent Saudi Preacher burned & raped his 5 year old daughter was set free after paying "blood money"

Fayhan al-Ghamdi, a regular fixture on television in Saudi Arabia, served only a few months in jail in spite of admitting having used a cane and cables to inflict his daughter's injuries.

Even worse, activists from the group Women to Drive claim the preacher had doubted five-year-old Lama's virginity and had her checked up by a medic.
A social worker from the hospital where Lama was admitted, Randa al-Kaleeb said the girl's back was broken and that she had been repeatedly raped - and that her injuries were then burned.

Rather than the death penalty or a long prison sentence, the judge in the case ruled the prosecution could only seek "blood money," which is compensation for the next of kin under Islamic law.

Activists said the judge ruled the few months al-Ghamdi spent in prison since his arrest in November was sufficient punishment. He has reportedly agreed to pay a fine of less than $50,000, which is believed to have gone to Lama's mother. The amount is half that would have been paid if Lama had been a boy.

Dead is dead & some countries have no problem with statutory killing
As some so easily point out in other instances it's the will of their people or better it's in the book

Exodus 22:18......... Kill the witch guys! Same book still there with all the other nonsense!

This post was edited by labrea on Fri, Apr 18, 14 at 8:22

    Bookmark   April 18, 2014 at 8:12AM
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Pidge

sleepless, you can find all the statistics you want online. This is just one of many sites I located about the number of people hanged or beheaded for witchcraft in the USA.

Here is a link that might be useful: kill her! (and sometimes him

This post was edited by pidge on Fri, Apr 18, 14 at 8:35

    Bookmark   April 18, 2014 at 8:32AM
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dragonflydee

Thank you,batya.

That was a very good post.

DD

    Bookmark   April 18, 2014 at 10:12AM
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asleep_in_the_garden

In my opinion,("stupid" as it may be! lol)Those who have oppressed women over the centuries might fear retribution of some kind should women come into their true power...so they do everything in they can to keep them "in line".

    Bookmark   April 18, 2014 at 10:56AM
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elvis

Jodi: "Male insecurity, some unfounded fear that females ARE actually equal and deserving of equal time..."

"unfounded?" That was some Freudian slip, interesting. That sounds pretty defensive to me.

    Bookmark   April 18, 2014 at 1:32PM
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Pidge

Maybe Jodi meant that the fear that women are equal is unfounded because women are actually superior to men. These guys are actually selling women short.

(written tongue-in-cheek, but itâÂÂs certainly a possibility!)

    Bookmark   April 18, 2014 at 3:46PM
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jodik_gw

And where, Tobr, would one get the sperm to freeze if not for the male of the species? It still takes two, no matter the route used to get there. ;-)

What I actually meant, Pidge, is that gender is equal, with none superior... a concept that outdated patriarchal tradition would not agree with. But I don't agree with outdated tradition or patriarchal anything. Every gender expression has much to offer. Any fear of superiority or inequality is unfounded, is what I meant. There's no reason for the male of the species to dominate, to control... and certainly not to abuse... and he shouldn't fear his female counterpart, but accept her as equal.

Asleep, I consider myself to be rather feminist... liberated, if you will... but that doesn't include dominance or control over men. It means I stand beside my partner, as an equal. I don't tolerate double standards, or outdated, old fashioned religious or traditional roles.

I am every bit as capable, intelligent, and independent as my partner, and fully able to make my own decisions, etc. My body and mind are my own, and I won't be made to feel cheap because I am healthy with healthy appetites... hearkening back to that double standard. You know the one... it's acceptable that males are sexual animals, but females are expected to be pure and virginal, dime between the knees, and celibate outside the bonds of matrimony. Not in my world. Who buys a car without a test drive? And what is it about a ring and a piece of paper that makes it okay? Hard to grasp when the hetero divorce rate hovers at a steady 50%.

This is the 21st century, in which females figure more prominently than they ever have in most professions, including politics and leadership roles. Most advanced cultures have a more logical understanding of superstition, like witchcraft and other things, and would find it heinous, and pointless, to convict and behead a female for expressing her own choice in religion, or however one sees it.

Then again, many cultures still cling to superstition, patriarchal control, and other ancient history...

    Bookmark   April 18, 2014 at 9:34PM
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asleep_in_the_garden

Jodi,
I didn't mean that I personally subscribe to this idea,but that others did,and that this was potentially at least in part,a bit of the motivation behind the mindset of those who would oppress women.

...if that makes sense. lol

    Bookmark   April 18, 2014 at 9:48PM
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Pidge

Jodi, I knew what you meant but I was taking a swipe at elvisâÂÂs perpetual quibbling over nothing.

I am and have been a feminist for decades and I have always believed that men and women are capable of just about anything they decide to do, often in the face of others telling them they canâÂÂt.

    Bookmark   April 19, 2014 at 7:18AM
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jodik_gw

I knew you got it, Pidge... the details were more for the benefit of any swipees or quibblers, as it were... since I have developed the habit of quick scrolling in the case of several. :-)

Understood, Asleep... you'll find that I tend to be rather vocal, in the written sense, expressing my opinions quite freely. If I really opened up, I could easily shock a lot of people. I don't want to be the cause of any palpitations or vapors. :-)

    Bookmark   April 19, 2014 at 9:18AM
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demifloyd(8)

Hate to break it to you, but I sincerely doubt anything you could say or do would cause anyone one smidgen of "palpitations," "vapors," or consternation of any sort.

Don't let anyone stop you.

    Bookmark   April 19, 2014 at 9:44AM
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october17(5chgo)

â¢Posted by elvis 4 (My Page) on
Thu, Apr 17, 14 at 20:26

â¢Posted by pidge z6PA (My Page) on Thu, Apr 17, 14 at 19:48
"elvis, could you manage under any circumstances have said anything dumber than what you just did?"

Sweet. Sure, I had a real zinger for the Russian airplane thread, but restrained myself. "

Oh, elvis, now I gotta hear it. Would you post it? Please? You know she has it coming.

    Bookmark   April 19, 2014 at 10:12AM
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elvis

"Oh, elvis, now I gotta hear it. Would you post it? Please? You know she has it coming."

Well, okay...let's just say that I was watching Clint Eastwood in "Firefox" at the time ;-)

    Bookmark   April 19, 2014 at 10:16AM
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dragonflydee

This is what I am thinking...

Ali Farka Toure who came from Kanau village on the river Niger...
Once said (after hearing blues man John Lee Hooker) "This music
Is of Africa!"...

Toure was a devout Muslim along with his local religion which related
To the river.

He was inspired by American blues guitar(which began in my opinion)
In the American South. Toure himself made his own contributions in
The musical genre of this style of music. He still remained true to
His village life. I have not heard that he was anything other than a
Man of peace,and not cruel. At least I hope so.

We are living in a more globalised world every decade and women
Are wondering what our place will be.At least that is what I think.

I hope we are worth more than oil...

DD

    Bookmark   April 19, 2014 at 3:12PM
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elvis

DD, what are you talking about?

    Bookmark   April 19, 2014 at 4:46PM
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duluthinbloomz4

Intrinsically, we humans have a value in our own right or for our own sake or in and of ourselves, but for the sake of something else - a barrel of oil, say, we might get thrown under the bus.

But like elvis, I'm not sure what that has to do with the price of tea in China.

    Bookmark   April 19, 2014 at 5:16PM
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dragonflydee

Elvis,
I am not exactly sure myself... But in the muslim world and also
In a possible war of wills involving the middle east issues and
Russian leadership expectations...seems like a man's world
To me...
So the democrats run Hillary for president?

Toure' is a example of how the world shares culture and art without
Conflict and loss of individual identity in a true globalist way.
That's not how world politics works.

I think to run her would be a mistake.

DD

    Bookmark   April 19, 2014 at 5:51PM
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dragonflydee

Now I not say I LIKE it!!!!! I just said I THINK it!!!

Sorry

DD

    Bookmark   April 19, 2014 at 6:03PM
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duluthinbloomz4

State craft, war craft - Hillary is as capable as anyone.

It's doubtful anyone is going to war over the Ukraine, and probably not anywhere else. If the world shared culture and art and appreciated a simple right to be - which it never has throughout history - we would have something the stuff of which dreams are made.

I'd like to see Hillary run; not only that but win. If she decides against it, the Dems better find someone equal to or better than to rally behind.

    Bookmark   April 19, 2014 at 6:25PM
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dragonflydee

Ooooo,

I am LOVING that middle paragraph!

But, it is possible that her doctor advises her not to run, as did LBJs.

If she does run I think Jeb Bush will run against her if the Repubs
Can weasel him into it.

If Jeb Bush runs I think he will beat her.
I am not saying I like that.

But it is better than the last pair the Repubs put forward...
That would be the two I called Count Dracula & his little fly-eating
Sidekick.
DD

    Bookmark   April 19, 2014 at 7:17PM
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asleep_in_the_garden

"Ooooo,
I am LOVING that middle paragraph!"

Ditto!

Like something John Lennon would say. :)

    Bookmark   April 19, 2014 at 7:29PM
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dragonflydee

I was a big Lennon fan. Also had the glasses, but girl style.
I also had long straight black hair parted down the middle,
But I had that pre Yoko.
They were a great pair,that couple,zany as hell!

But the true soul mate couple was Steve and Terry Irwin.

The thing is all the venomous snake people who are working
In the realm felt he was reckless.
It was of course an accident.
A lot of people get into tangles with stingrays.

I miss him.

DD

    Bookmark   April 20, 2014 at 2:36PM
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asleep_in_the_garden

Wow...we jumped from beheading to this. lol

When Steve bought the farm as it were,..You couldn't really say you didn't see it coming. Now don't get me wrong...I loved that he spread the message of conservation and all,but the way he stressed out the animals to get them to perform left me kinda pissed at him...always with the potential danger to hype the ratings. That kind of lunacy had to catch up to him eventually.

I wonder how his family is doing these days.

Hope they are okay.

    Bookmark   April 20, 2014 at 3:01PM
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jillinnj

Posted by pidge z6PA (My Page) on Thu, Apr 17, 14 at 19:48
"elvis, could you manage under any circumstances have said anything dumber than what you just did?"

Posted by elvis 4 (My Page) on Thu, Apr 17, 14 at 20:26
Sweet. Sure, I had a real zinger for the Russian airplane thread, but restrained myself. "

You had something even dumber to say on a different thread, but restrained yourself? Well, thanks for that.

    Bookmark   April 20, 2014 at 4:11PM
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Pidge

Nice catch, jill.

    Bookmark   April 20, 2014 at 4:21PM
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october17(5chgo)

Dang it elvis. I haven't seen that movie. Probably the only Eastwood movie I haven't seen. I didn't like the Tom Cruise fighter jet movie (never did care for Cruise), so I probably never even started to watch Eastwoods.

    Bookmark   April 23, 2014 at 8:16PM
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elvis

Totally different kind of story, October. Give it a try. It just might make your day ;-)

    Bookmark   April 23, 2014 at 8:42PM
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david52_gw

[Ali Farka Toure] "He was inspired by American blues guitar(which began in my opinion)
In the American South. Toure himself made his own contributions in
The musical genre of this style of music. He still remained true to
His village life. I have not heard that he was anything other than a
Man of peace,and not cruel. At least I hope so.

There is a long - thousands of years - Malian tradition of beautiful music, instrumental and singing - . When the nut job jihadists invaded Mali a year ago, they destroyed all the instruments they could find, prohibited playing music or singing. Thankfully, the French kicked them out of there.

This is what a kora looks like - what Ali Farka Toure grew up playing withâ¦.

Here is a link that might be useful: very short utube of someone playing the kora

    Bookmark   April 23, 2014 at 8:52PM
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