Check out the video on the nytimes page right now about recycled water and a guy who studies people's disgust factor. Very interesting and apropos to getting a grip on the future.
Sigh. My freebees are up.
So are mine, but the cool part is that videos are still watchable. Also you can access articles from Facebook, making that one of it's very few desirable attributes.
Unless you are single. Flirtbook is more like it, the social dynamics of it amuse me to no end.
Strangely, George Takei's FB page3 is almost enough to singlehandedly redeem the whole sleazy corporation that is FB. And I'll bet with a webcam, you could study people's disgust factors when George goes OTT homofabulous or borrows too heavily from 4Chan.
And people think that I am strange just for visiting HT...
Just saw that 'scissors beats paper' one on tiresome FB 30 seconds ago! Clever.
Will someone watch the video so we can have an intelligent discussion?
I'm teetering on the edge and afraid it could put me over...
Too slow a connection to watch video, Pat. Whats the gist?
Work-around to the ten article limit is to stop the page from fully loading after the text appears. Do this by clicking the X to the right of the url. Keep waiting for them to figure this out. Not that I would ever do this or anything.
I'm not seeing the vid you are referring to, which section?
Perhaps if the idea were transcribed so we could discuss it... a lot of people are leery of watching online videos, or simply don't have the bandwidth it takes to watch them. Give us a basic question... or idea to discuss.
It could be said, though, with a lot of truth, that quite a good amount of people would be a lot more disgusted with a lot of things that go on within our society on a day to day basis, including, but not limited to, how our food source is grown or raised and processed and prepared, what goes on behind the scenes of manufacturing, what they'd find if they had their drinking water tested, what sort and amount of germs, bacteria, fungi and other things are present on almost everything we touch, etc...
However, the disgusting things we sometimes find out can be good in certain ways, too... such as, a little dirt and bacteria keep our immune systems working and antibodies building, etc...
Is this anywhere near where you want this discussion to go?
We do reclaim water... once it's filtered and cleaned. At least, some cities do... to a certain extent.
Many of our customers have no backflow preventers, so boiler, buffer tank, hot water tank and/or toilet water is mixing with their potable water at times.
Many have no filters, non working filters, non working backflow preventers, lead pipes, lead solder connections etc, plus boiler chemicals and/or boiler antifreeze that are mixing with domestic water.
When we cut pipes, the insides of domestic water supply pipes are often loaded with brown, gray or black gooey, slimy gunk that has such a bad stench that it can't be accurately described.
Many municipal water systems have numerous breaks, or contamination, so they frequently have boil water warnings.
None of these things seem to stop people from drinking their water, although many people with sulfur water that smells like rotten eggs can't stomach the odor, nor the taste.
It's funny that the video showed that people might be grossed out by cockroaches. This may be true, but from my experience working in areas with numerous apartments with major cockroach infestations, many of the tenants get used to it in several months.
Once people become used to drinking recycled sewage water, they won't even think about it, just like people that eat hotdogs don't think about the ingredients, nor the conditions in the slaughterhouses and processing plants.
Here is a link that might be useful: Taking the Waste Out of Wastewater
I think I thought that tap water was already recycled. Is it not? The researcher is right, he does know the yuck factor. I'm not squeamish at all. Severed limbs don't bother me, blood doesn't bother me, I don't squeal with fright when I see bugs... (I always got rid of the pests in our house, never my husband). But his choices of ick factor, he's right. Yes, just dipping a cockroach in water either real or not, will keep me from drinking it. At least, when he dipped the rubber cockroach into the glass, I immediatley thought ew! No, I wouldn't drink that! If I reasoned it out, I'd be likely to drink that glass. However, I am not put off by water that has been treated. I assume all water is "purified". It isn't? I was also yucked out by the bedpan (new and unused or not) apple juice. It's too much an image in my mind. I might get used to it, but why? And why should people "get used" to drinking recycled sewage water? Why not use it solely for toilets and farms? Do I really have to drink and bathe in it?
It's best not to think about things.
Many people wouldn't eat the meals they're served in restaurants if they had knowledge of the conditions of the kitchens, food prep areas, food storage areas, freezer/coolers, food handling and food service worker hygiene.
I took the disgust survey and scored much lower that liberal or conservative. Rarely feel disgusted by things I see or smell. 1.0 core 1.0 overall 1.4 core .06 animal reminder .04 contamination.
Maybe it's because I've been exposed to and have seen or have had to participate in so much throughout the course of my life that things like smells, blood, gore, mess, etc... do not bother me as much as they might someone who has lived a cleaner, more regimented urban or suburban life.
I see things all the time that might make the average person lose their lunch. Maggots eating carcasses, returning them to the earth so the plant life can feed... genetic distortions that simply happen as part of nature... taking stitches in wounds and cleaning up the edges for a clean healing... skinning and gutting animals that will end up on the grill... extracting dead bovine fetuses in pieces... and raising children and grandchildren, which includes changing diapers and cleaning up vomit and all sorts of things.
Basic survival depends on simply putting those feelings of "ick" aside, and reaching in to remove a gut bag, or not freaking out because you get a little poop on your hands while changing a particularly smelly diaper load.
My husband will only drink coffee because he feels the need to sterilize the liquid that fish and other animal life have sex in and defecate in... we call it water. He will not eat anything that contains tomatoes, because tomatoes remind him of monthly menstruation for some reason I cannot fathom. Yet, he will smoke a cigarette that has blood on it while gutting a deer, and it doesn't seem to bother him in the least... and he did raise three children through the diaper stage without help from his then spouse, who would allow them to sit in dirty diapers until he arrived home from work.
All this leads me to believe it's all in our heads. We have the power to control the "ick factor" that's manufactured inside our brains. Some of us are better equipped to control it.
The only bit of "ick" I never could wrap my head around was the locally known AI service technician, I guess you'd call him... he would "manipulate" male dogs without wearing surgical gloves to retrieve semen, then eat lunch without bothering to wash his hands. He was the only one in the business within the area, so everyone used his services to check semen counts, have AI done, retrieve semen to be frozen for later use, etc... he seemed to enjoy his work just a little too much, judging by the lopsided grin on his face as he was handling the animals from whence the specimens came. But he was accurate to a fault, and used by most of the major zoos, and a lot of canine and feline clientele. How's that for an "ick" factor?
This morning it was still front position on the video line-up. It's about how major municipal projects to make grey and black water potable, thus saving immense amounts of fresh water piped in many miles from the reservoirs, have had to be canned due to the silly public perception of wastewater and ickiness.
It starts out with this guy who studies the phenomenon dipping a dead cockroach for a split second in a glass of water and then asking if you will drink it.
Would you? I would, if I was thirsty. A cockroach could be sitting in the bottom of the glass for days and it wouldn't be at all likely to give one a disease.
I saw it roaches don't bother me unless theres a swarm & then it's the smell that disturbing not the insect I know they are related to praying mantis & we were taught that they are good as kiddies. I'm not to squeamish about anything. My folks were from ireland and weren't terrible germ phobic both used the term "No harm in gods good earth" well may be there was & wasn't we never got sick after eating a candy that fell on the ground & we always picked it up & ate it.
We were warned about flies though they still believed thats how my brother got polio (irrational) if you see a fly land on it don't eat it but if I look away a fly lands on it & leaves before I look back is it ok to eat the chocolate pudding as kids we would try to gross eachother out with things like that.
Potable water (well depends on how thirsty you can get) & how you can reconcile neurosis with saving your own life & being comfortable.
They wouldn't have to bottle it for me if I was told it was safe I would drink it no matter what it's original origin was.
Disgust which starts around the gae of 2 to 3. Pick it up put it in your mouth spit it out the overlayed with all the taboos & cultural prohibitions that come later.
Old Firesign Theater commercial for Bear Whizz Beer made from fresh mountain stream hey it's yellow got some Bear in it & thats what makes it so refereshingly good.
I have a ticket broker whos mother took her to Lourdes shes swears she & her sister got sick after drinking the waters. AH well!
Foreign germs and bacteria are more harmful than local ones. I guarantee that if anyone on this forum bathed in the Ganges they would be dead in a week yet thousands of Indians do it every day. I had an email from a friend traveling in India who treated himself to a mango milk shake at the week end (what harm could it do?). I suggested he gave the recipe to Gwyneth Paltrow who is always looking for new ways to clean out her system.
Mark, thanks for posting the article/video. Makes it a lot easier to discuss.
My little city gets our water from a small river. I have great respect for the people that work in water supply and waste treatment facilities. I've been in both, and the operators and maintenance personnel certainly earn their pay.
Obviously, the farther downstream you are the higher the percentages of wastes there are. Sewage plants separate the solids from liquid, aerate and chemically treat the liquid component and release it back into the river. If I allowed any part of our water supply to bother me, it would be the other additives: pharmaceutical products and agricultural wastes. I've canoed down that river between towns, pig farms, dairies, and corn fields. All ground slopes toward the river and all waste ends there to be flushed to the sea. Wonder how many of us men receive the benefits of BC meds and women get ED meds not to mention ant-depressants and other ailment fixes. Then Monsanto blesses us with wondrous molecules never seen before in the natural world.
Filters and chlorine have little effect on those.
The story of the AI guy strikes me as funny, especially as the semen would have been sterile as it was collected unless the source of the product was somehow contaminated. Do you think it was possible he was putting on the observers as he ate his lunch?
If he was that good, maybe he was laughing at the squeamish. Otherwise the value of the product would have been reduced due to possible contamination and he wouldn't have been in demand at all. A relative by marriage was involved in that business and says they are very careful about sterile transfer.
Wrong video, sleepless, I think.
I think, Sleepless, that there's a big difference between "old school" and freshly graduated when it comes to a lot of different professions. The person I speak of is now deceased, but spent a lifetime working with different zoos all across the nation, and had a large local clientele of dog and cat people that he serviced, no pun intended.
The bulk of his daily routine was simply checking semen for live swimmers, decent count, stress, etc... so a little bit on a slide was all he needed. We had countless studs checked for viability prior to breeding. But we never did AI, because it's important to us that the animals be able to breed and whelp naturally. We could have done our own sperm counts and checks if we'd owned the right equipment.
He was definitely old school, so probably didn't feel the need to use gloves, in many cases, was a necessary thing.
It's kind of like doing the bulk of your own veterinary work... all it takes is the proper knowledge and the right supplies and tools. But the majority of young vets would have a coronary over such matters. They spent all that time and money earning their little certificate, so they could hang out their shingle and overcharge the public, and omg, there's a guy doing his own thing in his barn on the farm! What a travesty!
We're old school. Always have been, and probably always will be. There's no need to pay such exorbitant price tags for the easier things one can do at home.
But getting back to the OP... I think it's a good idea to reclaim water... we certainly have the tools, the technology, and the knowledge. It's dependent upon what the water contains, I would guess, and whether or not any bad things can be removed.
I think some people forget that even our FDA and other agencies have certain standards they test for when it comes to our food source, and a certain amount of rodent hair and feces is acceptable, along with a list of other things, I'm sure.
It's impossible to keep everything completely sanitary and sterile when you're talking about factory conditions. It's simply a fact of life.
"A little dirt never hurt anyone", my Dad used to tell us... and actually, a little bit is good for you because it keeps your immune system working to create antibodies.
We've become a society of people that worry too much about "ick", and we sterilize everything... and then we wonder why we get sick or can't fight off certain things.
Another thing we do as a society is misuse antibiotics. When you need them, it's important to take the full course prescribed. Just because you start to feel better after a day or so, is no reason to stop taking them. In fact, stopping a treatment, or course, of antibiotics too soon often leads to the infection returning, or whatever caused it to become immune to the antibiotics you used. Now, a stronger one is needed. There are only so many different types and strengths available.
Yes, I would drink a glass of water that had a roach dipped in it... if I were thirsty. There shouldn't really be anything on that roach that our bodies can't fight off... if the roach were local.
I've mentioned many times that when we had a litter of pups born, any outsiders were not allowed to handle them, until they reached a certain age and had been given the full course of vaccinations we give. When they're born, they're pretty much automatically immune to anything within the environment they're born into, and all the antibodies they need are contained in their mother's milk.
Honestly, though... if people even knew half of what they ingest or touch on a daily basis, they'd probably freak out.
Yes, that's why I prefer not to know. I am very easily grossed out. And I have a little germophobe in me. Not crazy, but enough. My DH always tells me that when the superbug hits, he'll be able to survive it but I won't. I'm sure he's right, but I can't help myself.
I won't eat anything that was made by someone I don't know. Restaurants are ok because they are inspected and have to pass certain cleanliness tests (that's my story and I'm sticking to it; please don't tell me horror stories about restaurant kitchens or I'll never eat out again!). But, food brought into work by people I don't know very well (and have never seen their kitchen), no way am I eating that!
For several years, we vacationed in Maine with my in-laws and there was a house nearby that made and sold pies. My in-laws and my DH loved it. They would buy and eat them. I wouldn't touch it (and I love pie!). My MIL and FIL just could not understand. Who knows what that guy's kitchen looks like!
Replication of this observation was successful.
You know, purely for scientific purposes.
Oh, Jill... I've worked in so many restaurants in my day, covering pretty much all positions, from salad girl to cook... and everywhere on the floor, from waitress to hostess. I don't dare tell you what goes on behind the doors that separate the customers from the kitchens... even your most expensive and fancier ones. :-)
You do realize, Jill, that inspections take place in a non-functioning kitchen atmosphere, while the restaurant is not going through its daily operations, don't you? It's too fast paced of a business to have some nerd with a clipboard standing in everyone's way, or putting the equipment through paces it doesn't normally do to check for specific temperatures and whatnot.
Many of your upscale restaurants will pay the fine instead of losing the downtime to correct the violations.
Just sayin'... ;-)
Um, Jodi, did you read the part about not telling me?? :-)
Really, I do know what goes on. I waitressed during high school and college summers in many different places (diners to high end), so I do have a pretty good idea. And my dad actually owned a restaurant for a couple years when I was a kid. It's where I learned to waitress.
I try to keep my paranoia about such things under control. Otherwise, it would be hard to survive. I eat out A LOT!
I tried hard not give specifics, Jill, so at least give me some credit! :-)
While I was formulating my response, my husband was telling some of the wildest stories from his own days in the biz... he cooked at several different rather high class establishments when he was young, most with bars that were loaded with drinkers on weekends.
After a few good stiff drinks, people have very little knowledge of what they're actually shoving into their mouths... and you'll notice, many of those types of places have dim lighting.
Trust me when I say... you don't want to know what gets served to the type of clientele that simply cannot be pleased, no matter what you do, or how nice you are...
Breading and frying covers a lot... and... I'll leave it at that. ;-)
Revenge of the "little man" getting back at the customer.
Heard of it.
Classless, dangerous, and can be criminal behavior.
What about that Chocolate Cream pie in the HELP!
Just as gross and preposterous.
That was not a good book or movie in my opinion--it catered to the sophomoric and simple minded that howl at such crude and childish behavior.
It could have been a compelling and even entertaining story if it didn't cater to prejudices and simpletons.
Gross is gross even if it spends 100 weeks on the best seller list. Still waiting for an African American version where the white folks talk/speak in dialect.
Well, thanks Jodi for not getting too specific. And luckily for me I don't drink much. And I'm not fond of bars. So I hope I'm safe. Hey, that's my story! I'm sticking to it! Please don't burst my bubble :-)
I have to say in all those summers of working in restaurants, I never really saw anything bad. I guess I was just lucky. Or wasn't paying attention. Either way, I'm still able to eat in restaurants!
Jill, I think it doesn't bother me so much because I've been on the other side of the table, so to speak, so I know what difficult and tiring jobs kitchen and serving can be. We always treat those in this particular line of work with a little extra courtesy, realizing what can happen. Orders can be mixed up, items forgotten, timing not always perfect, etc... so we always try to give servers the benefit of doubt, and we remain patient and happy. And if a server is obviously trying, we tip well.
It's those customers that are beyond pleasing, regardless of how hard a server tries... those few that are demanding and rude, never happy, never patient, treat servers and other personnel as lesser, and always seem short on tipping... those are the types that "karma" always seems to get... not that they ever realize it. ;-)
For the most part, you won't find untoward behavior in the kitchens of most places... and you must remember that we're talking a long time ago... but even so, it's a team effort between kitchen and servers, and the majority of consumers are good-natured, decent folk who are understanding of the occasional mistake.
It's those without decency who have more to worry about... I wouldn't worry, Jill... I'm thinking you fall into the category of patient and understanding. :-)
Just another reason why I never eat out.
Thanks, Jodi! I also give a lot of slack to servers because I know how hard the job is. And not fun. I'm a big tipper! However, if you are lazy and not trying and rude, well forget it, your tip will reflect it.
Going to be out shopping with my daughter all day today! We both took the day off. Woo hoo! But, I will be thinking of this thread everytime we get something to eat. I won't mention it to her because she already thinks I'm nuts. At least I was successful in not passing on my obsession to my kids! She didn't even know I was afraid of flying until she was grown up! Guess she didn't see the claw marks in DH's hand after we landed :-)
One of the worst sources of contamination in bar/restaurants is the bowls in which they place peanuts, chips etc.
Bar/restaurant customers dip their hands in these bowls after leaving the restroom without washing their hands, or after scratching themselves, picking/wiping their nose and other things I won't mention.
Having performed literally thousands of service calls in restaurant/bar kitchens, I've seen it all - bugs, rats, mice, rodent droppings, overheated freezer/coolers, contaminated food/beverages/ice machines, cross contamination - even restaurant food prep/service workers gettin' their freak on while on the job.
You can't expect much from an industry that pays part-time employees so little and has virtually no employment pre-screening process.