Other passiflora species- ID needed please, thx

siam_cannas(13)July 26, 2010

can anyone ID this plant? The fruit belongs to this passiflora.

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mark4321_gw

P. rubra?

    Bookmark   July 27, 2010 at 2:37AM
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karyn1(7a)

The leaf shape is right but my rubras have a light streak on both sides of the leaf (below), but I don't know how much varibility there is in the foliage of rubra. My adularia has streaked foliage but there's one stem with solid green leaves as well.


    Bookmark   July 27, 2010 at 7:19AM
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siam_cannas(13)

There are many of these vines and i havent noticed any with the light streak on it.

    Bookmark   July 27, 2010 at 9:46AM
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mark4321_gw

From Ulmer, et al. "Passiflora: Passionflowers of the World" on P. rubra:

"This is a widespread and variable species; the color and size of the flowers and form of the fruit and leaves all depend on the origin of the clone. Various clones of P. rubra with such differences have come into cultivation. These differences become especially evident when the fruits are compared. Some plants produce fusiform, 6-angular fruits, typical of section Xerogona, while others produce subglobose fruit without angles."

I think it's Supersection Decaloba, Section Xerogona because of the leaf shape and dehiscent fruit. I think it's P. rubra and not one of the others (P. capsularis, P. costaricensis, etc.) because the fruits don't have angles. P. rubra is also a weed on Trinidad, according to another source.

    Bookmark   July 27, 2010 at 1:57PM
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eristal(9)

P rubra is a great first guess, and could very likely be right, however there are a few others that it could be. I would not want to postulate further until a flower can be seen. As Karyn points out P. rubra is known to have variegation, as ours does, though it could be variable. I also have yet to see a fruit.

    Bookmark   July 27, 2010 at 4:17PM
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mark4321_gw

Eric,

What do you mean when you say "I also have yet to see a fruit"? Is that a typo, or do the last two pictures that Siam posted not show up?

    Bookmark   July 27, 2010 at 5:55PM
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mark4321_gw

Got it--you have not seen a fruit on YOUR plant. I'm a bit slow today.

    Bookmark   July 27, 2010 at 5:56PM
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mark4321_gw

Regarding the leaves: if I do a search "Passiflora rubra leaves" on google, the first two results show leaves without variegation.

http://www.sbs.utexas.edu/roxisteele/picturespranddr2007.htm
http://www.butterflyworld.com/ECOMMERCE/products.php?cat=3

Do we agree that the plant is a Decaloba, from section Xerogona (which contains 13 species)? If so, are there other species that do not produce the 6-keeled fruits and that are found on Trinidad and Tobago and that have leaves like that? What are the possibilities?

    Bookmark   July 27, 2010 at 6:39PM
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karyn1(7a)

Oh geez you are going to lose me again. lol I've never heard of Section Xerogona. Are those the decalobas that have the weird fruit that look like torpedos with ridges? Like my citrina fruit? I didn't realize that decalobas were further divided. Are the other groups subdivided as well?

    Bookmark   July 27, 2010 at 10:27PM
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mark4321_gw

Karyn,

That's them. Check out your copy of Ulmer, et al. Only 13 of them, and unfortunately I don't have the whole list, but looking up what I can get of Ulmer et al. online it includes citrina, quinquangularis, escobarina, costaricensis, rovirosae, rubra, sanguinolenta, capsularis, cobanensis, conzattiana and I guess 3 more.

The thing is, some of these can be eliminated because they are found in specific regions, some based on leaf shape (we can certainly agree it's not sanguinolenta, for example). That fact that the mystery plant does NOT have the ridges on the fruit should narrow it down even more.

Who's left?

    Bookmark   July 27, 2010 at 11:48PM
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michaelg_sz17(Z9b)

The leaves remind me a lot of P. sexflora, but I haven't seen any fruits on my plant for a comparison.

    Bookmark   July 28, 2010 at 1:49PM
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mark4321_gw

Michael,

I did run across this statement:

"In the absence of flowers or fruit, P. sexflora is easily confused with P. capsularis and P. rubra. The middle leaf lobe is usually much more developed than in these two."

http://www.archive.org/stream/americanspeciesofikill/americanspeciesofikill_djvu.txt

As far as I'm aware P. sexflora doesn't have dehiscent fruit (opens up like that). I think those are characteristic of Xerogona (which does not include sexflora) and according to Ulmer et al some in Bryonioides. Also as far as I know capsularis has angled fruit like Karyn described.

Someone please correct me if I'm wrong...

    Bookmark   July 28, 2010 at 4:42PM
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eristal(9)

Though P. sexflora is not a bad guess based on leaf shape and texture, I would wager against it due to the size of the leaves. P. sexflora can have massive leaves, and they are rarely that small unless unhappy.

Our best way to know for sure is just to wait and see how it blooms. Perhaps it is a yet unpublished species... you never know.

Eric

    Bookmark   July 29, 2010 at 4:36PM
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siam_cannas(13)

Im confused! I know everything about cannas , but nothing much about passiflora.
Ive collected a small plant and of course i have seeds. i will take pics when it blooms.
Siam.

    Bookmark   July 29, 2010 at 5:10PM
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pshawn(9B, California)

Eric,
What do you think about the fruit pictures above? Don't they put it in Xerogona or Bryonioides as suggested above? And if so, I'm curious which Xerogona you would suspect...
shawn

    Bookmark   July 30, 2010 at 1:38AM
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