measuring question

dln949March 31, 2010

Is there an established standard describing how to measure the height of a palm tree?

1) Is it measured from the ground to the highest tip of the tallest frond? Or,

2) Is it measured from the ground to the highest point on the currently emerging spear? Or,

3) Is is measured from the ground to the base of the currently emerging spear?

Thanks.

dln949

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don_licuala(10a)

Depends if you're measureig overall height, trunk height or whatever. Trunk diameter is typically taken at 48" above ground.

    Bookmark   March 31, 2010 at 8:14PM
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brooklyngreg(7a NYC coastal plain)

Some places selling palms by mail measure how high the leaves goes and calls it a 12 inch palm. I thought measuring trunk is better.

    Bookmark   April 1, 2010 at 9:48AM
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tropicalzone7(7b)

I dont think there is any offical measurement, but I really dont like it when people include the pot size. Usually smaller palms go by gallon size and larger palms go by trunk height (from ground to botton of emerging leaf). If you are selling a palm, I would specifically say what you measured and include several measurements to give the buyer an idea of what they are getting.

good luck!

    Bookmark   April 1, 2010 at 1:57PM
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jimhardy

Redwoods/Sequoias are measured from the base to the very highest point,so why not everything else?(-;

    Bookmark   April 1, 2010 at 11:42PM
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Loveplants2 8b Virginia Beach, Virginia

Makes perfect sense to me Jim!!!

Laura in VB

    Bookmark   April 2, 2010 at 12:45AM
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tropicalzone7(7b)

Yep, sounds good!

    Bookmark   April 2, 2010 at 9:53AM
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mnpalms(4b/5a)

Dln949-

How is your trachy doing this spring? Even with all that snow we had here in MN, I'd say it was a pretty mild winter.

I'm not sure if you read here in previous posts or not but I had a little mishap with my mature trachy. Jimhardy and I concluded what it was that I did wrong. Pretty stupid, I tried to be a wiseguy and protect mine "better" than everyone else seemed to be doing, my friend who has a similar trachy in his yard included. He protected using the same enclosure, thermocube, xmas lights, etc as me. He DIDN'T put all that heat on the ground under the mulch like I did! Mine forced into drought stress by drying out the feeder roots near the surface, his looks like the day it was planted! They were sister trees of the same size and from the same grower and planted on the same date last April (2009). My tree will recover and is slowly beginning to do so. It has spear movement and did not suffer any cold damage or spear pull. It will end up almost fully defoliated before the recovery process really takes off. I'm hoping to have it looking pretty good again by mid summer. In the meantime I decided it needed a sister in the same planter (where the basjoos were last summer). That will help ease the spring blues while the thing pumps out new fronds. Bummer!

Another note of interest- I acheived wintering my needle palm here in MN WITHOUT HEAT. Just the plastic garbage can over it from mid December through 3/2/10. 75% leaf burn but it's alive! No spear pull. A fun, kind of accidental "experiment". Well, I hope your trachy sailed through the winter and is looking great. Please let us know!

    Bookmark   April 4, 2010 at 9:40AM
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wxman81

mnpalms,

You have any pics of that trachy?

    Bookmark   April 4, 2010 at 1:02PM
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mnpalms(4b/5a)

Wxman-

I've been reluctant/ashamed to post pictures of my stupid mistake with my trachy! I'm glad to know what happened, why, and that the tree will survive though. Still I couldn't bear to look at an ugly stump for several weeks/months while it recovers, that's why I got another similar trachy for the planter. Let this be a big lesson to me and everyone else wintering trachys in colder zones, DON'T heat the ground like I did! The enclosure and xmas lights are MORE THAN SUFFICIENT. I tried to be a wiseguy and paid the price. Thank God I didn't kill it...

Funny thing, when I checked in on it in January during a brief thaw it looked perfect and was nice and humid in the enclosure. Fast forward to 3/1 and it was BONE DRY in there and I could see the outer fronds drying and crispy. The tree never experienced a temp under 35F so there is no cold damage. No rot either, no spear pull. Actually it tried to push up 4 new leaves during the winter and they got all gnarled because of the fronds being tied up inside. That extra ground heat screwed with it, it should have been cool like the air inside I learned. When I got in there 3/1 and moved away the ground mulch above the rope light, the ground was very WARM to the touch and bone dry several inches down. I mean desert dry, like warm cement.

And more recently, it now has a sister and a yucca for company...

    Bookmark   April 5, 2010 at 9:16AM
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jimhardy

Don't be surprised to see the wind tear up those new leaves.
So many of these mail order palms are kept tightly packed under shade cloth.
They both should be putting out some nice/somewhat/more compact leaves soon with this glorious spring we are having!

If you have ever put your banana plants out after having them inside you know the drill-you get to enjoy the beautiful leaves untill the first windy day and then snappo!

I let a few of mine get acclimatised by putting them on the east side of the house,they didn't burn in the sun-yeeeaaaa!
but with storms in the forecast and all these nice warm/windy days...less and less leaves are left.
Takes a couple tries before they can stand up the the wind....good thing they grow so fast.
With any luck the overwintered bananas will open their first leaves today!
Oops,went a little off topic.(-:

    Bookmark   April 5, 2010 at 10:41AM
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mnpalms(4b/5a)

Yeah the basjoos will be in for a shock (wind), or at least mine will! I have most of them at home now in the 3-season porch getting used to sun through the big windows which face southwest. They are loving it so far so I'm hoping sunburn won't be a big issue. I'm just trying to figure out how I'll get my huge one home from work... I have another 6-footer there also.

I think the new trachy will do ok where it is at. It is protected pretty well from wind (3-sides real well). It gets some from the south but looked pretty good when it was gusting pretty good the other day. The seller sent me some pictures of the palm at the place it was grown. It looked like it was in full sun/no shade cloth. It will get 2/3 the day's sun in its spot once the maple trees green up. The new growth is very tight, another indicator of sunnier conditions, I mean the most recently opened fans do not have long branches at all. I know what those "leggy and stretched" ones look like. I have one at work too. It is 6 feet tall but has just 18 inches of trunk!

    Bookmark   April 5, 2010 at 12:59PM
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steve0910

See if this link helps.

Here is a link that might be useful: palm grades and standards

    Bookmark   April 6, 2010 at 11:21AM
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dln949

mnpalms, I was sorry to read about and see what happened to your palm. That must be very frustrating.

I now wish I had pointed out to you that the heat generated by the lights I use - which I merely drape on the tree or suspend on posts - also always kept the ground thawed throughout the winter, so I never worried about the ground getting too cold. In fact, the grass inside the enclosure is pure green and grows throughout the winter.

Anyway, I uncovered mine two weeks ago. It's looking perfect, it again put out some new fronds over the winter. (The lower "level" of fronds are looking like they're drying up/dieing, but that happens every year. My amateur understanding is that is natural, the palm tree "absorbs" the nutrients from its oldest/lowest fronds each year, so I never worry about that either. Someone who knows differently correct me if I am wrong.) So, I am telling myself that my protection method is a success.

dln949

    Bookmark   April 6, 2010 at 8:34PM
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dln949

Thanks steve0910, pages 5 - 7 have exactly what I was wondering about.

dln949

    Bookmark   April 6, 2010 at 8:36PM
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