Baccatum, annum, chinense, etc

esox07January 22, 2013

I notice a lot of people on the list list the species classification of their pepper varieties. I keep wondering why? What does that tell an individual? What is the significance? For the average, hobbyist, grower, does it really matter? I personally couldn't tell you the species classification of any of the varieties that I grow. Am I being naive? Should I care? I suppose there are subtle traits to each classification but all I have ever really worried about is the taste and heat levels.
Bruce

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leafericson(6)

It really dosen't matter to me but you got me thinking there so I did a little research, here's what I found.

Eric

Here is a link that might be useful: http://www.thechileman.org/guide_species.php

    Bookmark   January 22, 2013 at 10:52PM
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greenman28 NorCal 7b/8a

A fellow posted a pic of some seedling "Butch T" plants the other day,
but the leaves weren't anything like a Chinense leaf...and so it's a good indicator
that his seed-source wasn't controlled. I let him know, and now he can start over
or grow out the not-Butch T plants if he so desires.

The frutescens peppers I've tried have all been quite juicy.

The Pubescens I grew was hair-covered, sure enough, and also grew with a more
vine-like habit. Purple flowers, too.

Anyhow, I pick up the info along the way and commit it to memory....

Josh

    Bookmark   January 22, 2013 at 11:11PM
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tsheets(5)

It's not critical, but, I like to know to give me a guess as to what the plant will be like. Chinese are slow starting and grow in more a bush pattern. Annums grow pretty quick and for me seem to grow taller more than bushy. Baccatums seem to do well in my space, very productive for me. So knowing the species of something new gives me a starting point of what to expect.

    Bookmark   January 22, 2013 at 11:22PM
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highalttransplant(z 5 Western CO)

The reason I try to find out which species the varieties I'm growing are, is that my season is very short, and the chinense and pubescens peppers take a lot longer to germinate, and need a longer growing season. I start those seeds 3 - 4 weeks earlier than the annums. If I lived somewhere like Florida with a year round growing season, I probably wouldn't worry so much about it.

    Bookmark   January 22, 2013 at 11:24PM
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esox07

Thanks guys. Great info. I did read the link that LiefEricson provided. Good concise info there. I guess I should classify all my seeds and maybe even stagger my planting schedule to accommodate the different growing schedules.
Josh, I wish I were like you can could recall classifications but it would take me a while to remember each individual one. After I grow a variety and maybe mark its classification on it's container, I would remember after a season....maybe!
Bruce

    Bookmark   January 23, 2013 at 12:02AM
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chilliwin(EU DK 7)

Before I found Gardenweb I never thought and knew about baccatum, annum, chinense but now I started to know from this forum.

I am interested to know my plants I grew about their origin, people and scoville.

I have Pubescens plants "Rocoto De Seda" it is really different from the other plants from the beginning it is very hairy and unique. Visually I am able to identify from my other plants.

Most of my C. Chinense I grew were easy to germinate.

The other plants Wild Tepin, Aji Chuncho, Aji Amarillo, blue mystery and Habanero Tree (C.Chinense?) take longer time for germination. In the same time I sowed Aji Amarillo, Habanero Tree and Scorpion Butch T, about one week ago Scorpion BT were germinated and the rest were no sign of germination. The seeds source are the same.

Caelian

This post was edited by chilliwin on Wed, Jan 23, 13 at 11:04

    Bookmark   January 23, 2013 at 8:55AM
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Djole(6)

Just wanted to add that there is a difference in the "type" of heat between classes, which give different burning sensations, mostly related to the amount of Dihydrocapsaicin relative to the amount of Capsaicin. I've always found the heat of frutescens class (tabasco, piri-piri...) to be very aggressive (stinging) on the lips and throat for instance, while chinense gives more of the "on fire" sensation on the tongue and the back of the mouth.

    Bookmark   January 23, 2013 at 9:24AM
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leafericson(6)

I guess that's why they age tabasco sauce for so long. The aging process must cause the Dihydrocapsaicin to break down resulting in a more mellow sensation. Don't forget about the minor Capsaicinoids: Nordihydrocapsaicin, Homodihydrocapsaicin and Homocapsaicin.

Eric

    Bookmark   January 23, 2013 at 10:33AM
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sunnibel7 Md 7(7)

That's interesting, Djole, and maybe explains why I find a pepper from one class to be more palatable than that of another even though the first pepper has a higher scoville rating. I remember there was another discussion not too long ago that first introduced me to the fact that there are different capsaicinoids. Great stuff!

Anyway, I am like highalttransplant and use the species info as a rough guideline for germination times. My growing season isn't that short, but Imonly have so much room under my grow lights, so all the little seedlings need to be scheduled.

    Bookmark   January 23, 2013 at 12:27PM
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greenman28 NorCal 7b/8a

Indeed, I start my Chinenses well ahead of the faster-growing Annuums, Frutescens, et cetera.

Josh

    Bookmark   January 23, 2013 at 12:37PM
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Ohiofem(6a Ohio)

Thanks, guys. This is a very informative thread. I also appreciate the link to the thechiliman.org website. I was perfectly happy growing ordinary annums until I started frequenting this forum. Now I want to try them all.

    Bookmark   January 23, 2013 at 8:59PM
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woohooman

LMAO @ ohiofem.

Yep. What started as jalapenos, Anaheims, bells, and Serranos 5 or so years ago has increased to about 12-15 varieties. The problem... My property lines have remained the same. The plus... my salsa et al has gotten increasingly better.

They say that chiles decrease appetite.. I say bulls*it.

Kevin

This post was edited by woohooman on Thu, Jan 24, 13 at 12:59

    Bookmark   January 23, 2013 at 10:38PM
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Djole(6)

@LeafEricson & sunnibel7

I've found a study about capsaicin and dihydrocapsaicin content in peppers (link below).
From another article: "The researchers found that peppers of the species Capsicum chinense had the greatest concentrations of capsaicin, while Capsicum frutescens peppers had the highest concentrations of dihydrocapsaicin."

Even though habanero is up to 7x stronger than tabasco (based on SHU scale), i also find it more palatable than the latter. It can make me sweat and tear on occasion, but i find it pleasant nevertheless, and much more enjoyable than the "bee stings" of a fresh tabasco pepper that are just pure pain IMO.

Cheers,
Djole

Here is a link that might be useful: Capsaicin content research

    Bookmark   January 25, 2013 at 8:10AM
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sunnibel7 Md 7(7)

Thanks, that gave me some bad flash backs to my days editing for a research journal, but otherwise interesting. Those science people: "postanthesis" indeed, why not say "after bloom"? I don't believe I have ever grown or tasted a frutescens. Something to look forward to next year. Cheers!

    Bookmark   January 25, 2013 at 11:08AM
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Capsicummaximum

They are all different species of plants and varieties within the same species tend to be very similar in respect to that species characteristics. Often I've wished I hadn't grown anuums next to chinense as the average anuum grows much faster and grows in height first and girth second, where as chinenses grow much slower and bush out and branch first before they get tall.

Capsicum anuum= The vast majority of domesticated peppers belong to this group, with bells being the least hot having no heat and cayenne type varieties being the hottest. They grow the fastest and tend to sprout the earliet, they are tall and unbranched as young plants and tend to have smaller narrower sparser foliage, especially when young. They typically make whitish flowers and produce one - two flower buds per axial node.

Capsicum chinense = Habaneros and their kin; basically every super hot pepper, belongs to this species. Not until recently did a mild flavored C. chinense even exist. On average they are multiple times hotter than any other species cultivars. They grow about the slowest and start off bushy and low to the ground with thick broad leaves, and don't usually take off vertically until after they have begun to branch. They usually produce 4 or more buds per axial node. Flowers are usually white or yellowish.

Capsicum frutesence = Thai style chillis and their kin, Similar to annum when young, but typically produce smaller more thin walled pods that have a tendency to grow pointing straight up. Think bird peppers or pli kee nus. On average they are hotter than most anuum as well. As they mature they tend to be much more shrublike with numerous smaller leaves and woody stems.

Capsicum baccatum= Basically just Bishops crowns, lemon drops, peppadews and starfish. Very hot, almost like chinense cream colored flowers with dark corrolae on the petals. I wish I new more about their growth habits but I've never grown any of them.

Capsicum Pubescen = Rocottos and Manzanos are completely different and a whole other sub genus. They are fuzzy, make purple flowers and their pods have black seeds. They are also difficult to germinate from what I hear, but I've never grown them personally.

There are many other wild species as well, but I don't know much about any of those...

    Bookmark   January 30, 2013 at 11:29AM
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esox07

Capsicummaximum: Thanks, nice concise explanation.
Bruce

    Bookmark   January 30, 2013 at 3:30PM
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highalttransplant(z 5 Western CO)

Capsicum baccatum = some of my favorites peppers (Aji Yellow, Aji Chinchi Amarillo, Bishops Crown, Rain Forest, Inca Red Drop), and I find their heat less painful than the burn of annuums or chinense.

    Bookmark   January 30, 2013 at 9:57PM
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seysonn(8a WA/HZ 1)

Lets bump this one.
I found it most informative and inetersting.

I still have not figured out the difference of ANNUM and BACCATUM. All I know now all those with "aji-" prefix are Baccatum.

I fully understand now what PUBESCENCE is. Blue frowers, Black seeds, fuzzy leaves ..won't cross with others. I will grow Manzano next season. Also got a pretty good understanding of the CHINESE( has nothing to do with China. lol)

    Bookmark   November 13, 2013 at 10:08PM
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seysonn(8a WA/HZ 1)

Now a question : What cultivar Korean an Thai chilies fit in ?

    Bookmark   November 13, 2013 at 10:11PM
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esox07

Posted by Capsicummaximum

Capsicum frutesence = Thai style chillis and their kin, Similar to annum when young, but typically produce smaller more thin walled pods that have a tendency to grow pointing straight up. Think bird peppers or pli kee nus. On average they are hotter than most anuum as well. As they mature they tend to be much more shrublike with numerous smaller leaves and woody stems.
Bruce

    Bookmark   November 14, 2013 at 10:42AM
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tsheets(5)

Tabasco is another well known frutescens.

edit: removed some stuff I'm not sure was correct.

This post was edited by tsheets on Sat, Nov 16, 13 at 18:12

    Bookmark   November 14, 2013 at 10:10PM
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scorpion_john(6)

I have always been about the heat. But i got alot of baccatums from Bonnies swap most came from Bonnie herself. I was really impressed with the flavor and plan on trying alot more baccatums

    Bookmark   November 15, 2013 at 1:37AM
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northeast_chileman(6a)

Now a question : What cultivar Korean an Thai chilies fit in ?

C. annum

    Bookmark   August 15, 2014 at 5:59PM
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toolstack

Great thread! I've been learning a little of what my plants are from reading on this forum. Before that I didn't know the difference.
Thanks Randal

    Bookmark   August 15, 2014 at 11:15PM
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DMForcier(8 DFW)

The C.baccatums I've grown have converted me too. Much more interesting than the C.annums. Different habit. IMO friendlier plants. But then I tend to bond personally...

Dennis

    Bookmark   August 16, 2014 at 12:44AM
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seysonn(8a WA/HZ 1)

Aw right. Pepp 101
I keep learning.:

1) Chinense NOT Chinese.
2) Baccatums are less stingy than annums.
3) not all annums are sweet but all sweets are annum.
4) Pubescence have blue/purple flowers and black seeds (like onion seeds). Or at least manzano is like that.
5) Chinense have deep heat but not stinging. And they need relatively longer growing season. .
6) there are different kinds of Capsaicinoids:

    Bookmark   August 16, 2014 at 4:01AM
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Mecdave Zone 8/HZ 9

"But then I tend to bond personally... Dennis "

Hahaha I feel that way about my Habanaro "shrub". I like that plant so much it's going to be very difficult to trim it up for overwintering.

    Bookmark   August 16, 2014 at 6:53AM
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northeast_chileman(6a)

To answer OP's question, For the average, hobbyist, grower, does it really matter?, my opinion is no. Knowing the full family tree of the pepper you're growing,

Kingdom: Plantae
Phylum (Division): Magnoliophyta
Class: Magnoliopsida
Order: Solanales
Family: Solanaceae
Genus: Capsicum
Species: annuum var. glabriusculum

a waste of time along with knowing every Species. But knowing traits of the Species to help identify it, how many times does this forum get ID requests, a helpful tool, How Do I Identify The Species Of My Chile Plant?. I've been looking for a ID chart on leaf variance but can't find one, we all know the difference between Chinense & Annuum, don't we?

NECM

    Bookmark   August 16, 2014 at 11:59AM
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DMForcier(8 DFW)

Whatever you do, Don't name them!

    Bookmark   August 16, 2014 at 12:32PM
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