chickencoupeJuly 27, 2014

I know this is WAY off topic, but there's much wisdom here. I'm at my wits end with my daughter's GERD.

My daughter has had it for a couple years. Occasionally, her poo is white, but only occasionally. I'm desperate to know if anyone has had this challenge rearing young children. She's six. It is readily obvious she does not have acid reflux, but GERD:

If you know anyone - even remotely - who has successfully dealt with GERD in their young child through natural means (diet, environment), please hook me up with them.

Gastroesophageal reflux disease (GERD) is a chronic digestive disease. GERD occurs when stomach acid or, occasionally, stomach content, flows back into your food pipe (esophagus). The backwash (reflux) irritates the lining of your esophagus and causes GERD.

She's so young. Even the doctor is like "Let's try other things before testing" which includes esophageal scopes and barium tests including the same.

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Maybe no connection but it sounds very similar, try paleomom blog.she has lots of info on food related healing instead of a lot of pills and procedures that dont always work. I personally have health issues that were completely healed by diet which is why I love gardening.

    Bookmark   July 27, 2014 at 10:59PM
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Thank you, Kim.

    Bookmark   July 28, 2014 at 12:11AM
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helenh(z6 SW MO)

My sister has food intolerances. Her esophagus stopped working and her breakfast from the day before came up the next day. I won't go into it further, but I would want some tests. There are diets my sister trys she finds them online. Doctors have been of no help at all until she finally came up with this symptom which showed up on their tests. She has been complaining for years but she looks healthy and they probably thought she was nuts. My sister eliminates all processed foods. She can't eat in restaurants. Even a tiny bit of the wrong food can make her sick. Some of what she thought was healthy food was also responsible so you have to go on a very limited diet and add things. I am not sure this works because my sister blames different foods at various times. My mother had severe asthma and my sister is the same about reacting but she gets headaches and just sick all over. My mother's asthma was something the doctors recognized. What are your daughter's symptoms? My sister may have something entirely different. She was not aware her food was not going down until it got bad. She did get choked a lot when eating and talking and had to drink water to get things down.

Here is a link that might be useful: a diet

This post was edited by helenh on Mon, Jul 28, 14 at 22:24

    Bookmark   July 28, 2014 at 10:10PM
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Chicken why do you say she does not have reflux but has GERD?

You know the basics- no eating at least an hour before she sleeps, head of bead up at least 30 degrees when she sleeps and no tight clothing or belts, lots of fiber, and lots of water. Another important consideration is for her not to be overweight and for her to be physically fit. Abdominal muscle tone is very important as well as activity for a healthy digestive tract.

I also must ask if she is overweight and also if she is a heavy snorer as sleep apnea and GERD seem to go hand in hand. The white feces thing seems to point to malabsorption but since it is not frequent, perhaps it is not really significant. Still I would keep track of this.

I feel bad for you and your daughter really I do. My daughter was born premature and we had a lot of digestive issues that we kept in check by a healthy diet, exercise, sports and physical activity while she was growing up. Now that she is grown she relies on a healthy diet and laxatives and the laxatives are NOT healthy and she knows better. But as you know it is tough to deal with and our kids get weary of all the restrictions and hard work to just be normal. So my heart goes out to you and your daughter.

    Bookmark   July 28, 2014 at 10:40PM
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My 2nd husband (a drug addict, btw. Just thinking about him makes me so very tired.) had GERD in a bad way. Honestly, I think he destroyed his by way of inhaling and holding in too much pot. Gawd. Dork. Nonetheless, they did everything from gall bladder removal to botox injections, anti-depressants... and to the point the only option was an esophageal implant. His eventual diagnosis was Scleraderma - internally. He's having a rough old age, by now, I guess. I learned a lot about the destruction of GERD in the meantime.

She's six. Based on her behavior and her vocal implication food gets stuck in her esophagus. And she suffers heart burn.

"I know I'm full because it tells me right here." as she points to her heart area indicating heart burn or pain where heartburn exists. If unchecked, she'll wake with sores on the corners of her mouth.

Every day, during the day you can hear her constantly clearing her throat. This is the reflux or GERD. If she has this much problem now, it's only a matter of time when her poor little esophagus is going to be badly damaged. :*(

She rarely burps. Occasionally, she'll become a constant tooter. I love it when she toots. It's a good sign. But times, like right now, she hasn't passed gas in a very long time and the acid reflux is terribly bad.

She eats very little and very frequently. Like most sufferers sugar doesn't directly impact (but is bad in the long run). Sometimes, it seems my life revolves around her stomach. I comply because she's tall and skinny and I must watch her weight closely. Very active, too.

But the hard part is her age. She doesn't understand! All she wants to eat are the things that are bad for her. And she's so thin (normally so). It just breaks my heart.

I've been patient knowing she'll soon reach a point where her growth rate will level out instead of the occasional growth spurts that can cause a child to quickly become under weight.

And dealing with anxiety is halted by the immaturity factor, too. She's anxious. She refuses breathing exercises and, for now, isn't capable of comprehending what I'm trying to teach her. I'm slowly changing our environment to help alleviate any undue anxiety: showing her how to clean things that make her feel uncomfortable, providing a spider gun in the bathroom (a sprayer with detergent and water), supplies for her art work, directed exercise (like Tai Quon or Tai Chi), a more solidified bed routine. Many of these things are becoming OCD in nature. Even I'm changing some of my behaviors. Finding a balance is weird. I believe the greatest anxiety has been from the stress of severe poverty though we adapted well. This may have been arrested. Bill's employers are very happy with him to the point of nearing a release of their existing slacker. (Sorry for the slacker, but...there's a lot of people without work and now isn't the time to be slacking!) Seems the boss is a very patient one, too.

First paycheck? I took the kids swimming. And bowling the following weekend. These are things they never get to do.

Processed foods give her white poo!! Anything she eats that doesn't contain natural foods will not be absorbed in her body. High calorie and high fat bacon is much more tolerable than a lean but highly processed form of turkey deli meat.

Cheetos: white poo
Minimally processed corn chips: Okay
Home made potato chips: excellent absorption

What I do know: Her stomach and esophagus need a break and time to heal. I need to do whatever is necessary in her diet to halt the acid reflux for a duration. I think she'll always have digestive issues, but the doctor hopes she'll grow out of this.

But like Helen's sister, it's very precarious. And since she's so young the communication difficulties make it even harder.

And the bacon? Not a problem. I'm usually pork-free, but if that works for her, I'm on it. I've tried the apple cider vinegar, probiotics, no-acid diets.

Considering that she is just fine eating fresh pork, chicken and beef and fat, we might try a low-carb diet and see if that will give her a break. BUT she's so young and thin. I guess zero fat is okay as long as she's getting adequate intake.

    Bookmark   July 29, 2014 at 9:13AM
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I meant "zero carbs is okay...". Perhaps the nutrition from fat is what will help. *shrugs

    Bookmark   July 29, 2014 at 9:17AM
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helenh(z6 SW MO)

? Most doctors know little about autoimmune disease. A woman I know goes to Mayo in Arizona. Scleraderma can attack your esophagus and make it hard and scarred.. I also have a few digestive symptoms and doctors are quick to blame it on emotion because that is common. Mine is too much orange juice, leaf lettuce sometimes and not emotions. It is too easy to blame illness you can't explain on your head. If you are sick you can be anxious and easily upset. The illness may be causing the anxiety. I know what you mean about regulating someone else's diet. My elderly mother lived with me and I fought her over food and she had pretty good sense most of the time. No one likes someone else telling them what to eat. If she can eat pork and other plain meat, try that and a very few other things. Find something she can eat and go with that a while then gradually add things. If she is clearing her throat I would want to rule out an abnormality in her esophagus. Sometimes young people do have serious things and waiting to see if she grows out of it may not be a good idea. I think your doctor doesn't know any more about it than you do. Guessing and looking on the web with no actual tests to see what is wrong may not be wise.

This post was edited by helenh on Tue, Jul 29, 14 at 13:42

    Bookmark   July 29, 2014 at 12:35PM
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I'm so sorry to hear your daughter is facing this. I've had chronic and severe GERD off and on since I was a teenager so I know first hand the pain of the suffering it can cause. I probably had some form of it even in childhood, but it was not recognized as such at the time - I always just had a "nervous stomach" or was a "picky eater."

A few things - I understand you want to treat naturally and holistically. My mother did as well. I would recommend defining a timeline to try to work through any holistic remedies you like and then seeking medical intervention at a pre-designated time, just because your daughter may be suffering or having serious damage caused to her esophagus in the interim if those holistic treatments are not successful - I'm sure you are working with her doctors and only want the best for her, but wanted to mention that as it might be helpful. I did eventually need medication and am so happy I am on it. I was scared of having my upper endoscopy when I was 18, but I was so miserable, I was willing to do anything.

Over the years, I've had good times and bad - my reflux actually seemed to go away, or at least I had no symptoms or problems, for several years (good diet, no triggers like coffee, chocolate, alcohol, cigarettes - obviously, these aren't problems for your 6 year old!) and was able to go off all medications for that time. Ultimately, it came back and I needed medication again and have been on the same one for 6 or 8 years now. I think about going off my medication to see how I'll react, but haven't yet - the thought of relapse scares me.

A few things of note - my grandmother has also occasionally suffered from mild reflux and had problems with her esophagus (she ruptured it, in a fluke thing, nothing to do with reflux), and has had her esophagus "stretched" a few times at the doctor. If your daughter is having feelings of choking or food stuck in her throat, that might be something to think about.

My allergist recently told me about non-acidic reflux, where you may not respond to the traditional PPI medications because the acid isn't the main problem. I don't recall the specifics, but I think he said it was a protein that washed into your esophagus and would continue to cause problems for a few days, clinging to the lining of the esophagus before washing back down. So perhaps that's why people don't have problems but intermittently, and then they don't seem to be related to a specific food - like spicy food is no problem, but three days later, a steak is a problem. You might look into that and see if it fits.

I also have/had a problem with constant throat clearing (to the point people in my office always said they knew when I came back from lunch without even checking who came in the door - it was me, clearing my throat). I went to an ENT for that, and he agreed with my allergist it was likely caused by my chronic GERD, giving me the feeling of my soft palate collapsing or food getting stuck. He recommended I clean up my diet (again, adult problems like a glass of wine, coffee, chocolate), but if that didn't help, they could give me shots of Botox in my throat (EEEEK!), or surgically implant "stays" in the top of my palate, like they do for sleep apnea patients. Needless to say, I went the diet-clean-up route and it has actually been a lot better! But I'm still taking my medication, too.

Anyway, this is a novel, but just wanted to share that I've had GERD 16 years and have learned a bit about how to control it for me. Hope you can help your daughter feel better!

PS - you probably know, but there is also a bacteria, h. pylori, that they test for with an endoscopy (and perhaps they can do a blood test, too?) that may cause reflux/ulcer symptoms and can be cleared with an antibiotic. If you suspect auto-immune disease, a blood test for antinuclear antibodies can give a clue about those, without being as invasive. Good luck!

    Bookmark   July 29, 2014 at 2:04PM
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AmyinOwasso/zone 6b(6b)

I am so sorry you have this trial to deal with, I know how hard it is for little ones not to eat like the other kids. My son was on a diet without artificial colors, flavors or preservatives. That was more than 30 years ago, but it still meant no convienience foods. Everything had to be made from scratch. No candy except for peanut butter cups and bit o honey. He felt very deprived. But now there are many recipes on line that can duplicate much of the processed foods. Harder for you, I know. But, in the end ususally cheaper. My daughter's boyfriend could not understand how she could NOT know how to cook hamburger helper, LOL. I hope your daughter out grows this.

    Bookmark   July 29, 2014 at 2:05PM
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You're right, Helen. They tend to revert to head issues if they are overwhelmed or confused by a diagnosis. I should remember that because of my back. Back problems aren't a real issue are they? (It's only the MAIN support of the entire body.) They blamed my ex's problems on his mind a lot. Of course, he was 'wired', but in the end he went that curved road destined to get to expert individuals who knew their stuff. Then, came the scleroderma diagnosis.

When I put her on the light dose of rantidine, I see no effectiveness. I have tried more. I cannot be scientifically positive -which is the only way to know - but it would seem it can make it worse.

So, I appreciate your 'novel', Mia. I think it's just a relieve to hear someone else struggle with it - especially the throat clearing!

She had bloody spit, once. And that's when I took her in to the doc. After that I noticed all the other symptoms. And helen is probably right. She's probably nervous because of her internal boo boo. The light bulb is going off as I type.

Mia, the botox injection didn't work for George. But I don't know if it was because of the scleroderma or something else.

What's your opinion on long-term use of acid-reducers? I wonder if the patient can be put out for the 'scopy. You've given me some more things to chew on. And things to ask the doctor, maybe, or to look for in a doctor. I believe it is only with their help that we will ever find out from whence the problems start. It's really hard to find the right solution without knowing the problem. But that testing.. ugh.

Thanks, Amy. You know my frustration. The only thing that is real clear is that the freshest foods absorb better (stool output color) and don't irritate her as badly.

That's funny about hamburger helper. That would seem odd to normal digestive systems. ha! I'm still looking for an easy but fresh mac n cheese recipe, but I've been too busy in the garden to take more self-cooking lessons.


    Bookmark   July 29, 2014 at 4:35PM
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helenh(z6 SW MO)

Botox is used for a temporary treatment of achalasia which is the lower sphincter muscle of the esophagus not relaxing or letting the food go to the stomach. Scleraderma would make the tissue hard and something that paralyzes the muscle would not work. My sister's recent symptom is called achalasia. None of hers is due to acid. She reacts to food. No food is simple anymore. People suffer in silence. Now gluten free is in the news. Gluten intolerance is hard to deal with because they may use a gluten product to change the texture of a food that ordinarily shouldn't have gluten at all. When it made the news you see gluten free on things like orange juice dah. I said that to my sister and she said you would be surprised what they add to foods for various reasons. When she thought it was soy beans causing the problem for a while, I found out restaurant sour cream has soy beans in it.

    Bookmark   July 29, 2014 at 5:13PM
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gmatx zone 6

Bon, Acid Reflux is what term we use if the episodes of "indigestion" is less than 2 times per week and GERD is the chronic form of Acid Reflux (occurs more than 2 times per week).

I am so sorry that your young daughter is experiencing this at such a very young age. Please, please find a doctor that will be assertive in determining the condition of her esophagus now, before more damage is done to it. There should not be a "let's try other things before testing" if this has been happening for more than just a short period of time or has not responded to any OTC medications that inhibit stomach acid production.

GERD can be responsible for not only painful esophageal ulcers, but also Barrett's esophagus, a precancerous condition of the esophagus.

I am linking the Mayo Clinic website that discusses GERD. Please read it. There are several pages, but the information is worth the time.

And yes, your daughter can be given a sedative prior to an endoscopy being done. I have taken several patients down for endoscopy and they remember nothing of the test.


Here is a link that might be useful: Mayo Clinic web site

    Bookmark   July 29, 2014 at 6:03PM
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I agree with Mia and know from experience sometimes alternative therapies work and sometimes medicine works. It is hard to watch someone suffer and not be able to fix it.
I only know what worked for me and I still deal with a lot of health issues doctors specialists and pharmacists just shake their head and say I don't know. We tried this and that and well I just don't know what else. I feel so special. LOL
I have my thoughts about how I ended up with these issues and how to help my self but it is a rigorous plan and no cheating. I cant imagine being a child and facing it.
Studying food and nutrition helps to have an edge. And eating good homegrown food is a good start.
Anyway I hope you can find the combo that works for your little girl.

    Bookmark   July 29, 2014 at 8:45PM
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You know, helen, it is so aggravating because I struggled to make regular sandwich bread at home with many failures and some near-successes only to find that making a truly soft white bread requires additives. Ugh! That's when I switched to flat breads and home made tortillas. The complexities of the ingredients in store-bought foods is enormous and elusive. And the ingredients not listed is egregious after loop holes around FDA regulations.

Tomorrow she and I both start a sugar-free diet. We're gonna get through this together. I'll keep on with the diet experiments. And continue learning how to grow fresh foods and cook them.


When I read 'Barrett's' my memory was instantly repopulated and, then, I was paralyzed with fear. I got up and walked into the kitchen to shake it off. I forgot. I FORGOT that. This simply will not do. Momma bear just roared.

I'm calling first thing this morning.

    Bookmark   July 30, 2014 at 3:04AM
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northerner_on(Z5A ONCanada)

I have not been able to read all the preceding responses, but as a grown-up who suffered with this for many years I have some advice that may help. I was determined not to go on any meds. and went through all the general trends: alkaline foods;lemon water; no eating after 6; head elevated etc. and none of it worked. I have been free the past two months after going on a 'no carb' diet. After a time on that, I now understand my tolerance for carbs. and do have them from time to time. All my meals consist of protein and vegetable (raw or cooked) and lots of fruit which I have always eaten. The reason for the GERD is the digestion of carbs (or any sugar) in the gut by 'bad' bacteria. This produces gas which pushes the food up into the oesophagus and hence GERD. You can start her slowly, but I went cold turkey and I thought I had died and gone to heaven. You may want to put her on a probiotic (10 billion cells), let her have yogurt for deserts, do not increase fibre because that is digested in the gut; give her small but frequet meals. Give her only fresh food that you have cooked, because one of the reasons for this 'epidemic' is the hidden sugar in everything. This is causing the imbalance of bacteria in our gut. Scour the internet and find out what these big companies are putting in our food and what it is doing to our bodies. My heart aches to think of a child going through that hell. Lastly, read the following articles and they will explain everything. They are a bit technical, but I am sure you can understand. Please let me know how you do with this.


You may also read when you have time articles by Chris Kesser. Your doctor does not know anything about this because they are not taught this in medical school and this is new naturopathic research.


I know because I have been there. Was able to spend a week in Mexico in June and ate and drank everything. What a pleasure that was. Good luck and God bless your little girl.

    Bookmark   July 30, 2014 at 3:44AM
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Have you ever heard of Bentonite clay? It is available at health food stores and is used to capture bad bacteria in the stomach. I learned of it several years ago after I developed diarrhea after eating out. My acupuncturist told me about it. It worked very quickly and very well for me.

Have you tried a very good probiotic? The best ones have over a dozen strains including not only Bifidum and Lactobacillus but also Streptococci. There is one called FloraSource that has 16 strains I think. Solaray makes one called Multidophilus 12. These come in capsule form but can be opened and used to make homemade yogurt which is much much better than anything store-bought. My daughter adopted a little girl with some digestive issues and makes a "slushy" with frozen banana and strawberries blended into homemade yogurt for her.

I remember reading somewhere years ago--sorry, that's all I can say--that Iodine is needed to strengthen the pyloric sphincture. Home grown food in Ok can be low in Iodine. We use Kelp meal to fertilize our garden. Will she eat ocean fish? Do you use iodized salt? I have in the past smeared a silver dollar size area of topical iodine on the abdomen of my children. You can overdo this as too much iodine can interfere with thyroid function, but I used to do it about once a month. If the iodine disappears immediately it can mean it is needed.

The sores at the corners of the mouth sound like a B vitamin deficiency. I think B2. A good probiotic helps with B vitamin synthesis in the GI tract.

The low sugar diet sounds like a good place to start. Please do check back in and let us know how your little girl does.

    Bookmark   July 30, 2014 at 10:31AM
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AmyinOwasso/zone 6b(6b)

Bon, I have a real easy yogurt recipe if you need one.

    Bookmark   July 30, 2014 at 12:08PM
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Hi Bon, I'm glad to see you getting such good support from posters on this thread! It always feels better to know you are not alone.

I see someone mentioned GERD being caused by digestion of carbs, and while that may be true for that person, that is not true of all sufferers of GERD. It can be caused by many things, including the sphincter at the bottom of the esophagus not closing tightly enough and allowing acid to wash into the esophagus. Hence the fear of Barrett's esophagus (which I live in fear of, too, trust me!)

I have absolutely been knocked out each time I get an upper endoscopy - I can't imagine being awake for that! The first time I had to have one, I had been really sick with undiagnosed GERD for several months. I was dry heaving every day, spitting up acid, could not eat much of anything, and lost quite a bit of weight due to not being able to eat. They thought of many alternate diagnoses (I had tests for gallbladder, ultrasounds, even a test where you have some sort of injection of dye that shows up on an x-ray type machine and a radiologist looks at how your gallbladder or liver or something works when they give you something that mimics a fatty cheeseburger working on your organs, and even a pregnancy test because they thought I had morning sickness), because my symptoms were not typical of GERD. I rarely had true heartburn. When I finally had an endoscopy, they discovered I had severely inflamed esophagus, stomach, duodenum (esophagitis, gastritis and duodenitis). I tried OTC like Maalox and Tums first, then ranitidine, Prilosec, and then graduated to Prevacid and then Aciphex. I think Aciphex worked for me for a long while eventually weaned off of it. When my reflux came back a few years later, I was no longer a military dependent and had to get a new gastroenterologist. When I went in to see him, I'd regressed again, dry-heaving acid, weight loss, etc. He told me I'd need another endoscopy to see if I had the same thing going or something new, and the nurse would come in to schedule. When she came in and suggested a date about a week later, I burst into tears. When she asked what was wrong, I told her it had taken me months and months to be scheduled for my first endoscopy, and it was torturous, and I was so relieved I only needed to wait just a week I sobbed. That time I went on Nexium (after a fight with my new insurance company, to prove I'd tried all the "step therapy" of OTC, ranitidine, Prevacid, etc.) back when Nexium was the more new, expensive drug. After several years, the effectiveness waned for me and I went on Dexilant, which is the new "expensive" drug developed since Nexium was going to lose patent after so many years and have to go to OTC (as it is now).

The actual procedure for the endoscopy was easy for me. No special prep, like for a colonoscopy, just no food or drink after midnight. Go in that morning, they check you in, put in a thing for an IV, roll you back to a procedure room, start the IV (one time, they started the IV before I went back so I don't even remember the trip), wake up in recovery a half hour later. Groggy and hungry the rest of the day. They use a medication, I think it's Versed, to make you "forget" you are having a procedure, and it feels like you go to sleep (like, you're talking to the doctor or nurse while they bustle around and then mid-sentence you just drop off), but from what I understand you are not actually asleep, you can still respond to commands and seem awake to others. I do not think it is true "anesthesia" because you are not intubated or put on a respirator, but you are "out" as far as you know.

Of my three endoscopies, I will tell you I did partially wake for a few brief moments during the last two. It was like I was having a dream, and remember the nurse telling me to "bark like a dog" and then drifting off again. I think this is actually when they are pulling the tube out and trying to get me to help cough it up, but again, I only remember it like an especially long-remembered dream (probably because it was so unusual!). I don't even remember what happened the last time when I woke up, only remember that I did. My husband tells me I talked about it in recovery. The first time, he thought I was totally lucid and was letting the doctor tell me all the follow-up stuff and about the procedure, and then when he got me home, I napped for several hours and woke up and said "tell me what happened" and he realized I had total amnesia of almost the entire event, starting with when they started the IV until the time I woke up in my bed at home, except wheeling me out to the car. Since then, he's had several colonoscopies, and I have been on the other side (they give the same medication) and see how funny it is to have someone seem either loopy/drunk (once DH woke and said he needed a Crown & Coke cocktail, stat, which didn't amuse the nurse) when they first wake up, or to have a very serious seemingly normal affect, only to find out later they have no memory of anything.

During the endoscopy, they also take a small biopsy of tissue (don't feel it, don't know it, don't miss it) to test for pre-cancerous cells like Barrett's, and test for the h. pylori bacteria (and perhaps other things). Having battled it for so many years, it is definitely on my mind that repeated exposure is more likely to alter the cells and create a problem, so I definitely ask my doc about it.

When I think about my long-term use of oral PPIs, I have to agree with my doctor's that the dangers of leaving the condition untreated, for me, are riskier than treating it with long-term medication use. The biological changes that may be wrought by unchecked disease are just as frightening as the potential dangers from the medications.

One more thing, I had to have a Barium swallow test as a teen, unrelated to my GERD, when I choked on an apple and had to be rushed to the ER with it stuck in my throat. I was barely able to move air, and my windpipe was all distended, plus my salivary glands were in overdrive trying to dissolve this huge hunk of apple, and my eyes were bugged out in panic, so they decided to have me do the Barium swallow. They brought in a thick, gray milkshake and had me stand in front of an x-ray board. I took sips of the drink while they watched the x-ray of me to see the shape of the obstruction, thinking they may need to do surgery to get it out. Wouldn't you know it, a few swallows of the drink and the chunk of apple went down into my stomach (while we watched it on the screen)! Surgery avoided! I remember having to drink a ton of water afterwards, they told me the barium could set like concrete in my gut if I didn't thin it out enough, but that was the only thing I needed to deal with. No problems, really easy test - like drinking a very tasteless milkshake. It was only scary to me because I was in the midst of a trauma with the apple, panicked about that and trying to swallow. But if that is a test your doc recommends to start with rather than an upper endoscopy, it seems relatively easy.

    Bookmark   July 30, 2014 at 2:15PM
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She has an appointment at the clinic Friday morning with the pediatrician most knowing about GI problems.

Amy, can you shoot me that recipe? There are recipes on the internet, but using one that actually works is a better idea.

MIA, thank you for describing detail. It helps knowing what to expect. I imagine her dreaming of unicorns. :) She pried diligently when I was on the phone this morning. Who are you talking to, Momma? She freaked knowing it was the doctor. All I could do was cuddle and divert. Unicorns. Why don't you draw me a picture of a unicorn. No? Dolphins! I want dolphins on my frig! Meanwhile my mind is ballooning notions of potential liver cancer or envisioning a colostomy bag and feeding tubes in her 40s or ....something. ugh!

If I don't mention it, everything that has been suggested will be looked into. All these post of experiences have made me consider rightly naturopathic alternatives and that I'm not giving science enough credit. I've touched on articles about probiotics. I only vaguely recall bennonite clay. And in no way did I realize there were so many strains of probiotics. I have a lot of homework to do. I bought iodine but have not used it. I guess I'm not comfortable until I learn more. I have low blood pressure, normally, and salt foods liberally. Yeah. I'm embarrassed to admit my kids probably eat more than their due allotment of iodized salt for this reason. lol

The work by Drs Eades (Protein Power) I'm familiar. It is their work that successfully stymied adult on-set diabetes for which others say I was destined. I'm ten years past that mark. Thanks Drs. It was Drs Eades that taught about the importance of acidophilus in the protein shakes and the beginning of understanding of good gut bacteria. And they're probably responsible for me not having a heart attack, yet. I've been lazy and haven't thoroughly studied beyond acidophilus. It looks like probiotics is a continuation of that line of healing. I am encouraged to revisit their methods. Nonetheless, I will look into her needs whether zero carbs or home-made low carbs, no fat, high fat, meats or no meats, probiotics, various stomach bacteria supplements, potential vitamin deficiencies and any food allergies. She could just be allergic!

That's a few. Clearly, if there are medical tests to eliminate base hazards and diseases, blood tests to monitor deficiencies and allergies, doctors to eschew obstructions to GI tract health and assess damages while offering deeper insight, it's a start. Looks like a heuristic approach is the means as so many of you have described.

At least there's no hard evidence of white poo, no evidence of jaundice and no more dry heaves with blood as you know horrifically, MIA. Looks like we've nipped that in the bud. So, I probably should nip the feelings of inadequacy and plod onward.

And for the sake of anyone reading: It is elimination of processed foods as Amy describes, especially chips, like her Cheetos, food coloring in Kool-Aid, 'chemical meals' like boxed mac n cheese, hamburger helper (Seriously, home made hb helper is SO easy and it's "just the bestus" as my son describes taste comparison) and the plethora of inhumane additives hidden behind trade secrets and horrifying ingredients in breads (Foam Rubber Seriously?) and crackers. Also beaver butt in expensive ice cream (all natural, ya know) and other additives in carbohydrate form of processed food. Ridding these eliminates the worst symptoms. It's not easy to put additives in meat slabs although it DOES happen. Direct and indirect accumulation of excessive hormones, antibiotics, disinfectants (to protect from salmonella, e.g.) and GLUE in steak meat and hamburger meat artistically rendered to simulate authentic slabs or marbling. Yuk.

But are these the culprit or are they merely rubbing against some existing GI inflammation? That's what I need to know.

We've all talked before about knowledge passing with grand parents. They were building and creating healthy food blocks while impervious to probiotics, the heart healing nature of cayenne in their prized pepper plants or the explosive healing power of turmericin that peppered chicken soup.

Perhaps it's the method rather than the high fat content of pork that helps. Studies have shown that a state of ketosis from a high fat low carb diet helps lull seizures in patients with severe epileptic seizure. They also reveal a state of ketosis is prone to heal neurological connections in the spine and brain. Ketogenic Diet/Epilepsy Foundation The state of ketosis is an integral nature of the Protein Power Plan diet, too. Is this connection related? Is it only a coincidence that I'm brought back to the work of Drs Eades? So is it the pork or the high fat diet?

Or is it from fasting? Intermittent Fasting has been revealed to set the body in healing regenerative mode. Starving people live longer than those satiating themselves with even a healthy diet. They studies are somewhat conclusive for monkeys; it doesn't work well for mice.

When I ask Little Miss to wait until her stomach is empty before filling it up again, maybe it's not the lull in digestion as much as a state of fasting that reveals progress. Maybe both! But with her being a child, I need a doctor or a nutritionist to confirm dietary intake.

Makes my head spin. So many different options. Many interactions. No wonder it's frustrating for all ya'll. There's no way of truly knowing until you've experienced it and walked through a heuristic process.

Wow. That was long. Will keep ya'll posted, if only in brief. Maybe I should take heavy notes and turn it into a book. LOL

Love ya for the input and sharing your wealth of experience.

    Bookmark   July 30, 2014 at 9:50PM
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AmyinOwasso/zone 6b(6b)

I sent the recipe for yogurt by email, Bon.

    Bookmark   July 31, 2014 at 11:38AM
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The pediatrician admitted to knowing very little. He was like ..."well, even if the reflux is coming up, the ranitidine will reduce the acid that's in it." He even reduced the dose not trusting the older doctor.

Anyway, it's direct to the GI specialist which will take a couple months.


    Bookmark   August 2, 2014 at 10:12PM
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helenh(z6 SW MO)

Do you notice any difference with the ranitidine? My mother took that briefly when she was alive. I think it had side effects. Nexium was what she took for a long time and it worked. The couple months will give you time to try a mild diet of some sort or what ever works. I would not do probiotics or anything like that. I don't use anything bacterial in the garden since I figured out Thuricide made me sick for two summers. I will eat a ripe tomato even though I know my abdomen will rumble the next day. A probiotic yogart commercially advertised to get your digestive system in order made me sick as a dog.

    Bookmark   August 3, 2014 at 11:25AM
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I cannot be positive at this time but I'm inclined to think the ranitidine makes it worse. I'm doing a study on it starting next week. This week is the control.


    Bookmark   August 3, 2014 at 12:49PM
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Bon, we like whole grain breads but if I have to make a white soft textured bread for some reason, I choose a potato bread. You might try the potato bread recipe on the King Arthur Flour website. I used it for rolls for my DIL after she had oral surgery and it was good for a white bread.

    Bookmark   August 4, 2014 at 11:35AM
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Thanks. I've never tried it, so I will. It's worth a try.

    Bookmark   August 4, 2014 at 3:56PM
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Concerning that probiotic yogurt advertised by a well known actress. When it first came out I heard her say it contained "bifidum regularis." I am familiar with the scientific names of a lot of probiotics but had never heard of that one so plugged it into an online search and got an eyeopening. Since that isn't a legitimate scientific name there is speculation that the company GMOd a probiotic and gave it their own name. If they did they don't have to tell us. It's just one more reason to stick with a reputable company like Solaray that sells real probiotic products with accurately labeled scientific names.

    Bookmark   August 4, 2014 at 7:10PM
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Bon, check your email.

    Bookmark   August 4, 2014 at 9:11PM
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Got it, Carol.

That's good to know about the potential for disrupted probiotics. Businesses are sure quick to take advantage of trends!

I think I'm going to buy the book Wild Fermentation. Any recommendations for books on probiotics? There's much information online about probiotics but it there's so much it's hard know which are authentic and experienced.

    Bookmark   August 5, 2014 at 12:39AM
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AmyinOwasso/zone 6b(6b)

Here's a link for the National center for Home Food Preservation guide to fermenting. I am fermenting pickles now. I have done saurkraut. Fermented foods are VERY salty. Everyone who blogs about them seems to not mention this. DH boils it before he uses it, which takes away the salt, but no doubt kills the probiotics.

Here is a link that might be useful: NCHFP Fermenting guide

    Bookmark   August 5, 2014 at 11:27AM
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Awesome link and timing. I just harvested my first pickling cucumbers, today. First ever. Dawn was right. They balloon QUICK.


    Bookmark   August 5, 2014 at 11:31AM
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Okiedawn OK Zone 7

Bon, I haven't had anything to add to this thread since I have no experience with GERD, but just wanted to say that I hope you are successful in getting the right medical diagnosis and then are successful in doing all the right things to correct the issue as well as you can in the most natural manner possible. My older brother suffered from ulcerative colitis for years without ever getting the right diagnosis until he was in either the later high school years or the early college years. (Granted, we didn't have the internet back then, so it was really hard to dig and research and find answers on your own way back then in the Dark Ages.) It is amazing how well most digestive issues can be managed nowadays with diet, some sophisticated medicines, etc. I am confident y'all will have success overcoming this health issue.

Re: Pickles. Cucumbers are just that way. Tiny one day, gigantic Godzillas the next. I have to pick twice daily to catch them all while they are at the appropriate size for pickling, even though I normally do not make pickles daily. Well, I pickled cucumbers yesterday and I pickled peppers today, but I do not routinely pickle something every single day.

Amy, I do find it interesting that the saltiness of brined and fermented foods often is not mentioned. I wonder why that is? I don't know if it is just because the people who eat those kinds of foods are so used to the salt that they don't think to mention it to others or if there is some other reason. We don't use a lot of salt in cooking, so when I ferment something, I do notice the higher salt levels when I eat it.


    Bookmark   August 5, 2014 at 7:55PM
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AmyinOwasso/zone 6b(6b)

We don't use much salt either, Dawn, and DH should watch it better than he does! Some mention using fermented food as a condiment, so the aren't eating lots of it. Maybe mixing it with something that offsets the salt. Honestly, I think some are so intent on doing things the old fashioned way that they don't want to mention any negatives. If these fermented pickles turn out, fine. If not I may not bother with others. DH likes the saurkraut. He's the one that wants the pickles. I'm not big on either. We went through a stage of making sourdough bread. The bread was good, but feeding and maintaining the starter was messy and wasteful. Back when there were 4 kids at home we could have gone through that much bread, but I didn't have the time or inclination then. I really need more probiotics, but I haven't figured out the best method of getting them. I like kombuca, but not enough to maintain it. Maybe Bon will come up with the magic formula. Then, Bon, you can write a book. ;)

    Bookmark   August 5, 2014 at 9:07PM
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Where is Diane when we need her?

    Bookmark   August 5, 2014 at 11:12PM
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Thanks Dawn. Yeah. I'm getting all 'scientifiky' with my son about her GERD ... using it all like a school science project. He throws his shoulders back, approaches his little sister, clears his throat and deeply asks, 'How are you feeling?' So frickin' funny.

    Bookmark   August 6, 2014 at 1:04AM
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AmyinOwasso/zone 6b(6b)

I wish I had read this before fermenting, I didn't poke holes in my cukes. The tips are at the end.

Here is a link that might be useful: fermenting tips

    Bookmark   August 6, 2014 at 10:28AM
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Wow. That's something to consider. I've never attempted a brine or even canned. Bill continues to yammer about his grandmother making a type of sweet pickle. She'd mix the batch, place a cloth over the top of the jar where it rested in the cellar. I'm willing to do the frig type.. but the other is risky? yeah.. dunno

    Bookmark   August 6, 2014 at 1:17PM
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AmyinOwasso/zone 6b(6b)

They all have to cover their butts on line. My husband says his grandma used to do saurkraut and sour pickles in crocks on her back porch. MINE made watermelon rind pickles and strawberry rhubarb jam in MM, so I'm making these for him. of course, some of the things he waxes poetic about Philadelphia food really are that good, like Philly cheese steaks and the pastries from their local bakeries. I digress. I posted this for another point of view, not to scare you off of trying it. She did mention the book you were talking about. That seems to be the go to guide for fermenting.

I googled the nutrional value of fermented foods. Supposedly fermenting makes things more digestable and makes the vitamins more available. Add to that the probiotics and you have a lot of good reasons to try it.

Traditional canning tends to cook the nutrition out of the food. I have been following the harvest forum, and things can go wrong preserving that way too.

    Bookmark   August 6, 2014 at 2:33PM
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nah, yer fine. I should be careful when I head into doing something, tho. Like a healthy fear. I think it's worth it for the nutritional value.

    Bookmark   August 6, 2014 at 9:56PM
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AmyinOwasso/zone 6b(6b)

If I continue to ferment, I am going to look into making containers with airlocks. Excluding oxygen seems to be important in the safety. I have had saurkraut overflow the jar and the pickles called for a gallon bag filled with brine to weight them down. The bag wasn't fully closed and fumble fingers managed a bath in salt water. At least it wasn't hot.

    Bookmark   August 7, 2014 at 11:15AM
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Little Miss is doing well. Her acid reflux seems to be calming down, but it's too soon to determine what is helping. The book I received, Nourishing Traditions by Sally Fallon (and others) is appropriate. She uses copious amounts of whey in these recipes. The book is also very informative on the side lines. I especially enjoy the globally diverse recipes, but nothing far-fetched or out of touch with ingredient accommodations.

    Bookmark   August 23, 2014 at 6:27PM
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