Pepper Joe Reaper...

kclostFebruary 14, 2014

I'm going to tell it like it is. No BS.. I have seen all the questions about all the seed vendors, and this is the place to place our info. So here it is.

I purchased 20 Carolina Reaper seeds a few months ago from Pepper Joe. Germinated them in between paper towels in small plastic sauce containers on a heat mat.
Honest results... Out of 24 seeds I received (4 extra), only 8 have germinated. And the very first one that did has me wondering what it actually is... What do you think. The one on the left looks like all my other seedlings. But the other is much darker and rounded leaves.

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esox07

I don't want to start a bashing thread here but here are three Reaper seedlings I have going right now. THey were planted on the 4th of Feb. The seeds are from a Reaper that I grew last year. The seeds for the mother plant were obtained from Pepper Joe. The Reaper seedlings are circled in yellow. The bent over one just popped out of the ground so it is still hunched over. You can see one is actually a TRI-Cotyledon. That happens some times and I don't think it signals any problems with the plant. I have had them before with other varieties and they grew out fine. The reason I am posting this is so that you can compare.
Bruce

    Bookmark   February 14, 2014 at 9:23PM
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seysonn(8a WA/HZ 1)

I personally think that it is not possible to identify or make distinction about a pepper sprout at this stage. Same variety might have different looking sprouts, germinate early or later. This might be due to the strength of a given seed or soil condition.
JMO

    Bookmark   February 15, 2014 at 5:27AM
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esox07

I agree with seysonn. That is why I didn't really give an opinion the OP's seedlings. I just posted what my "Reaper" seedlings looked like so he could compare. But it is hard to tell until the plants get much bigger and start exhibiting more traits. Sometimes, it takes until fruit starts to form to be real sure.
Bruce

    Bookmark   February 15, 2014 at 8:22AM
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mistyreiny

I started a thread questioning him and I got my answer. Search pepper joe legit on garden web.

    Bookmark   February 15, 2014 at 12:14PM
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thepodpiper

I agree with seysonn and esox07, You might be able to tell what species the plant is as it grows bigger but to identify variety is almost impossible until after fruit set.

    Bookmark   February 17, 2014 at 3:41PM
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kclost

Well, it's not a Reaper, not even a pepper. The next set of leaves are growing stems about 1/2" long and are not even opening up yet. I pulled it and transplanted my last Reaper seed that germinated.

By the way, out of 24 seeds, 10 germinated.

This post was edited by kclost on Mon, Feb 24, 14 at 16:56

    Bookmark   February 24, 2014 at 4:55PM
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flipback23(9 SF Bay)

At least you got a 50% ratio of germination I bought 10 from J** and out of 8 that I started 3 sprouted. Im just hoping they are truly reaper seeds once its all said and done. On a side note there are many gracious people on this forum that can help out with seeds just gotta post and see who replies. After voicing the concern over my P J** purchases of reaper and butch ts I was able to get some from a member on the board. As long as I can grow them properly I will have some to offer up next season. Good Luck

    Bookmark   February 24, 2014 at 5:57PM
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grinhead24(10 Southern Spain)

I started 6 reapers from him in an aerogarden starting tray and they all came up. They took 2-3weeks but they are doing well now. Sorry y'all aren't having any luck with them. The reapers are the 6 in the middle 2 rows.

This post was edited by grinhead24 on Tue, Feb 25, 14 at 14:13

    Bookmark   February 25, 2014 at 9:55AM
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esox07

I started two cells of Reapers with 4 seeds in each cell this year. Within 7 days, both cells had a couple pop. over the following two weeks, several of the un-germinated Reaper seeds did pop as well. This was unique to my Reapers. All my other varieties came up at about a 90% rate within the first 8 or 9 days. The other 10% never did.
Bruce

    Bookmark   February 25, 2014 at 12:39PM
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Willy_Chile

I purchased a bunch of pepper seeds from that vendor and my experience is, he frequently gets other varieties mixed in. I planted three ghost peppers in the garden and one of the three plants is actually turning out to be a habanero (and I didn't order any of those). Oh well.

    Bookmark   August 21, 2014 at 6:50PM
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northeast_chileman(6a)

Common theme....

Here is a link that might be useful: Pepper Joe Legit?

    Bookmark   August 21, 2014 at 7:56PM
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ajdrew

I read a lot of dislike for Pepper Joe's products online. I purchased man seeds from him back when I was first starting. I continue to purchase the odd pack or two from him because I have been very pleased with the service and germination rate.

Sure things might go wrong now and then, but I have had the best of luck with his seeds.

Keep in mind my homestead is one of his competitors. A very, very, very small and insignificant competitor. But still a competitor. Why would I have nothing but good things to say about the man if I were not sincere?

Live free and Blessed be,

A.J. Drew

    Bookmark   December 16, 2014 at 4:54AM
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kclost

Now that the season is over and this thread is back up, I thought I would add a few thoughts from the conclusion of the season.

The germination rate was less than 50% as stated above. Out of the 10 that did sprout, one was not a reaper (not even sure what type of pepper plant it was) and was discarded. The 9 plants that made it to the garden flourished.... But 2 of the 9 were not true reapers, crossed varieties that were awesome looking peppers and hot as hell, but pods looking more like nagas with just a slight stinger on the end. A few of the plants produced awesome true reapers (IMO) with long stingers, while the others produced reapers with stingers but no where near as pronounced. But the production off of the later was out of this world.

Overall, after the long 10 to 11 months of tendering to these guys from germination to pulling from the garden, I am glad of what I ended up with. But realize that you don't always get what you expect. I saved seeds from both reaper types, so we will see what happens in the future.. Looking forward to starting the process again in a little over a month...

Happy Holidays everyone!!!

    Bookmark   December 16, 2014 at 9:11AM
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ajdrew

Kclost - Here is the thing, Pepper Joe was the first person that Puckerbutt sold seeds threw. Puckerbutt created the thing and had multiple people growing it for them. I am thinking that on Carolina Reaper seeds from Pepper Joe, the source was likely Puckerbutt themselves.

BTW: I cloned my best plants from cuttings. The peppers from those clones turned out true as can be. Not sure about the seeds yet, they are only a few inches tall. The way I see these things is it is kind of crowd sourcing an we are all part of the crowd trying to improve the line.

A.J. Drew

    Bookmark   December 17, 2014 at 4:33AM
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seysonn(8a WA/HZ 1)

I also think that PJ is just a seller, authorized and given the seeds by the owner oo the breeder. I have seen him in some UTube clips, having several pepper plants in front of his house, in pot and beds. PJ is just a businessman, not a grower. I even suspect that his seeds are packaged by somebody else somewhere else for him. I don't know maybe he is a smart business man or not so smart, the way he treat his customers. But undoubtedly , he is selling a lot of it. With the high profile publicity of being Guinness Record Hot pepper, there is a big demand for it right now. Not everybody is a member of GW Hot peppers member to get it for the cost of postage from the generous friendly folks here.

Seysonn

    Bookmark   December 17, 2014 at 7:52AM
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scorpion_john(6)

Just an observation here, but it seems to me like the people who bought from Ed, ended up with better Reapers in general

Drew,

Joe's a bad word around here.. Trust me, you don't wanna go down that road

    Bookmark   December 17, 2014 at 6:35PM
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CanadianLori(6a Oakville)

I got my reaper seeds from chileheads in tecumseh Kansas.

Very very pleased.

    Bookmark   December 17, 2014 at 6:42PM
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kclost

Tecumseh Kansas!!!

Right down the road from me a little ways.... From a seed seller or private grower?

    Bookmark   December 18, 2014 at 11:50AM
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greenman28 NorCal 7b/8a

Yes, Joe was a seller of Ed Currie's Reaper seeds.

However, the issue was with the quality control and the precision of the orders on Joe's end.

Josh

    Bookmark   December 18, 2014 at 12:22PM
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CanadianLori(6a Oakville)

Yes, a seed seller.

midwestchileheads.com

I've used them a few times. Fast and so far seems to be 100 percent correct.

good germination rate too.

    Bookmark   December 18, 2014 at 12:48PM
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Edymnion(7a)

Oh yes, PJ is persona non grata around here. If you want to hear why, feel free to email me for my personal experiences.

Long story short, he's why I waited so long to buy my Reaper seeds, and why I only bought them directly from Puckerbutt. PJ is never getting another thin dime of mine for as long as I live.

    Bookmark   December 18, 2014 at 8:49PM
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scorpion_john(6)

Edymnion,

I'm with you, mine came from Ed also. I never dealt with PJ. when he sent me a catalog with his little biography and pics of himself in it years ago, i decided he wasn't someone i would deal with . It had more about him, than the peppers he was trying sell...John

    Bookmark   December 18, 2014 at 10:54PM
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seysonn(8a WA/HZ 1)

Yeah, John. I would avoid such a salesman that talks more about himself rather than his product.

I am not into super hots but I know that luckily there are few members who would want to give away or trade few seeds. That is perfectly legal and ethical as long as no money changed hands.

Seysonn

    Bookmark   December 19, 2014 at 1:34AM
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daveintexas

seysonn, AFAIK this pepper is not a "U.S. protected variety" under the Plant Variety Protection Act (one of the requirements of which is that the variety be genetically stable through successive generations, LOL!), nor AFAIK has it been issued a corresponding PVP Certificate of Protection or PVP #, see -

USDA Plant Variety Protection Office

This is how the Guinness World Records holder for many years, the Red Savina was properly protected, see -

http://apps.ams.usda.gov/CMS//AdobeImages/009200255.pdf

A Trademark, on the other hand, does NOT grant you exclusive rights to a plant variety, but instead protects things like trade names!

From what I have read you're not even ALLOWED to trademark a variety name, because that is considered the "generic" name for all plants of that variety.

Indeed, I seem to recall seeing a post somewhere here which said they actually had to disclaim the variety name in order to get their trademark, ah, here it is, in that infamous thread -

Pepper joe Legit?

(See post by Orekoc, on Fri, Jul 18, 14 at 1:20)

They also linked to the trademark, but the link says their search session had expired! But if you go here -

http://www.uspto.gov/trademarks/index.jsp

Click "Trademark Search" on the blue nav links on the left, then click "Basic Word Mark Search (New User)" option, then enter Carolina Reaper for the Search Term and click Submit Query, you should get 2 records found. Click the first one (85930781), and scroll down to "Disclaimer", and read what is says!

The blue TSDR button will also retrieve the status and documents associated with this trademark, I believe the following link should take you right to a letter from the Patent and Trademark Office, informing them they had to disclaim the generic varietal name "CAROLINA REAPER" -

http://tsdr.uspto.gov/documentviewer?caseId=sn85930781&docId=OOA20130525063421#docIndex=9&page=1

A Trademark does NOT provide PVP-style "protected variety" rights for a cultivar, and this trademark does not even protect the generic name for this variety of pepper!

Here is a link that might be useful: US Patent and Trademark Office, Trademarks Home

    Bookmark   December 19, 2014 at 10:35AM
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brian6464(4a)

Hey DIT (deveintexas) - Are you an intellectual property lawyer or did you just stay at a Holiday Inn Express last night? ⺠Great info.

    Bookmark   December 19, 2014 at 11:03AM
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plantsman56

Dave, recently, when you buy these seeds from the source, you have to sign off that you won't use the seeds to make money. So, you promise Ed that you won't make money on these before you buy the seeds. This really isn't a formal plant protection thing it is along the lines of a verbal contract the buyer has with the seller. Don't get yourself in that contact and you don't get their seeds. That's why buying seeds from a reliable source, but a second hand source that got seeds before this new arrangement gives you more options. I would never get into this type of deal again. All the Fatalii Gourmet Jigsaw seeds out of Europe came with the same promise and you see how many people are selling that material around the US. I bought Jigsaw seeds and have kept my promise and never did sell any of the plants or resulting seeds.

    Bookmark   December 20, 2014 at 10:42AM
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bigfatpeckerhead(4b)

Not sure if it's been said already but I just corresponded with pucker butt's sales guy and he said that they have no ties to Pepper Joe's and that he didn't get the seeds from them. Basically said he is a liar and that they will be going after him for infringing on Ed's patents.

You can try Uncle B's for another source of seeds

Here is a link that might be useful: Uncle B's Chilies

    Bookmark   January 29, 2015 at 12:04AM
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smokemaster_2007

The lawyers will make all the $$$.
I'd bet the sales of reapers isn't close to what it once was.Assuming Ed has all these new,hotter peppers growing.
It probably would be better if he spent his $ hawking them...

    Bookmark   January 29, 2015 at 5:20PM
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northeast_chileman(6a)

Oh geez no, another hot pepper site in Uncle B's_Canuck Land!

    Bookmark   January 29, 2015 at 7:55PM
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bigfatpeckerhead(4b)

So from what I can tell through correspondance with puckerbutts is that PJ was going to sell reaper seeds for Puckerbutts...they gave him the seeds and he never paid so they cut all ties with him and he is now substituting the reaper seeds while still posting on his site that him and Ed are good buddies and that he still has exclusive rights and whatever else. Hearing this makes him sound pretty slimey. I won't be dropping any more wads of cash there again. Wish I had of emailed Puckerbutts before we dropped 400 bucks at PJ's

    Bookmark   January 29, 2015 at 8:59PM
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bigfatpeckerhead(4b)

I think that the more legit seed sellers out there the better. If there is a bit of competition then the prices will go down. I grow a lot of peppers and I know how many seeds are in each one and I know how many grow on the plants. $1 per seed is crazy when you are growing 5000 plants.. I grow 30 - 40 varieties and if I have to go to 15 different companies to find the seeds that is 15 shipping fees to pay as well. Having more seed companies out there is a good thing in my mind. Especially when you have arseholes like PJ acting like shiesters.

    Bookmark   January 29, 2015 at 9:06PM
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bragu_DSM 5

Well, my 99-cent 'sample' pepper ring had 11 seeds in it when it came in the mail today (Thursday). They have already been socked into a germ tray. We'll see.

Interesting how they are getting around things.

dave

    Bookmark   January 29, 2015 at 10:00PM
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