"It is not given that one man should possess that which is above another, wherefore the world lieth in sin." This is an admirable notion and with today's political thrust going in the opposite direction its author may surprise you.
Our duties to the poor, wounded and afflicted are, in fact, clearly outlined in the scriptures. We are given specific instructions to:
1) Cloth the naked
2) Feed the hungry
3) House strangers
Our reward for doing so is very clearly, "life eternal" and for failing to do so even more acutely clear, "everlasting punishment."
The sin is not about politics. One cannot legislate charity and generosity. The giving must come from the heart.
Since this quote comes from Joseph Smith and a Mormon is running for President I beg to differ Mrs. The need for "The giving" as you call it is certainly political when some possess not just a little but way more than others as a result of government policy.
The need for "The giving" as you call it is certainly political when some possess not just a little but way more than others as a result of government policy.
How much is "way more" and exactly what "government policy" is the reason some have "way more?"
Are the very poor "very poor" because of "government policy?"
You don't need me to answer that Demi surely, unless you have not been keeping up. The rich are ever richer and the gap between them and the rest of us is growing: this is a fact. The government is controlled by those same people, could Romney be where he is today if he weren't rich or Obama if he didn't have the financial backing of the same people? The CEO of a company that made a record loss is sacked with a mixed message bonus of (what was it?) $25 million and the minimum wage is about $7.50 an hour. Isn't this government policy and precisely what 'The Book of Mormon' warns against?
Let us pause and meditate on that.
Kill the goose that lays the golden eggs.
That'll feed you for about one day.
Tear down your factories and burn the wood.
That'll keep you warm for about one day.
House the strangers and pretty soon you'll have to move out to make room.
Worked for the commie Russkies, the Mao Chinese, why would you not expect it to work for us, too?
don't take the verses so literally. Just imagine how the world would be if all of us were "willing" to do such things.
Mother Teresa didn't really do much for the poor when you think about it.
Nice person with good intentions and I'm sure a few people appreciated her comforting them as they died.
Otherwise, not much.
The road to hell is paved with good intentions.
Now I'm off to work. Helping the poor in the process...Me. When I die, you can have everything that's left over. Win-win.
"House the strangers and pretty soon you'll have to move out to make room." given the number of Iraqi refugees created by the war you could well be right there Hay, best just to ignore their existence I say.
Isn't this government policy and precisely what 'The Book of Mormon' warns against?
I don't think so ink...I don't think it has to do with government policy whatsoever. The government could tax you and take everything you have to distribute to others, it wouldn't get you a ticket into heaven. The sin is the love of money above all else. There are those that have very little that love money just as much as some who have more than they need.
Being charitable and generous has nothing to do with politics. Being forced to pay higher taxes to a wasteful government would be no act of generosity any way you look at it.
I think you misunderstand the point Mrs, you are putting a narrow interpretation into 'sin' and assuming that I am talking about taxation it is also possible that "wasteful government" could be covered by these words, plus nowhere am I suggesting this as a gateway to a place I don't believe in.
Actually I took that scripture from a Mormon site after googling "who said that" by the OP.
Continue on with the bashing...
I've got a great recipe for roasted goose with chipotle lime and cilantro sauce.
A fusion dish: Canadian/Mexican/Thai.
Nicely done, David. In keeping with normally utilized tactics. ;-)
Being charitable equates to being a commie? Sounds like a new angle for right wing sloganizing. The world could use some more commies like Mother Teresa.
Nice try, ink, but you're destined to failure with this topic. The new and improved Gospel is that we are allowed to pick and choose who is a worthy recipient of charity. God-like judgement is now in the hands of those with money (and their servants -- in government, think tanks, and elsewhere).
Hence billions for defense, and massive cuts for the social safety net.
exactly what "government policy" is the reason some have "way more?"
Would the treatment of income by hedge fund managers at 15% instead of at ordinary income rates be considered an example of government policy that allows others to have a good bit more than otherwise (because otherwise they would be in a 30%+ tax bracket on that income).
You mean the way Romney made his fortune? But, you see, now he's 'giving back' by wanting to do away with all tax on capital gains and dividends.
Speaking of clothing, we've always given clothing, furniture, appliances, electronics and household goods to The Salvation Army.
"It is not given that one man should possess that which is above another, wherefore the world lieth in sin."
The bottom 25 percent of the population has zero, or negative net worth, so many poor people with no debts and a few bucks in their pockets would have to empty their pockets, or take on debt to equalize things.
Markjames: Thank you! That's where we buy most our clothes and stuff :)
"The new and improved Gospel is that we are allowed to pick and choose who is a worthy recipient of charity."
A priest told us that once they went faith alone charity & charging interest got kind of funny I just thought he was prejudiced.
I also find it odd that some folks can get so nickle & dime over sex & ignore what the faith alone adored guy tells them to do in order to be perfect. "Go sell everything" you figure if he said it it would be a real biggy in Christianity, oooh look at me lord I wanna be perfect & all I have to do is sell everything huh?
Not Pat Robertson & his gold mines nope! Certainly not the president he has millions nor the fat head running against him if he had a quarter of what he has he'd still be richer than all of us here.
Puh-lease that sell everything went out the window with Francis of Assisi and all those crazed monks who lived in trees or tiny stone huts.
Both Matthew & Luke's scribes wrote it down for them so it must be true. It's not a big one for any to follow & no we'll just keep enough & a prudent reserve to live on for a year & give everything else away. What it came down to is I'll give 10% to the CHOYCHE and let them decide. Or the bad punch line to an old joke after the collection I toss it in the air & whatever he catches is his.
Sometimes opportunities real opportunities are put in my path yo help but it's so random & I'm not a Christian.
We weren't permitted to feel good about ourselves when we were growing up if we gave anything to someone else "we'd be lectured about the widows mite"
She gave nearly everything & what did they give nothing that really meant anything to them. He kept hammering away lines like that and all these yahoos carry on about is sex.
I guess it worked out I probably wouldn't be a gardener today if I hadn't worked with a crazy nun who had a vision of turning a lot into a garden as a gift to the neighborhood. I went by there 3 years ago the convent is gone the lot is a lot again, no flocks of young women making vows of poverty or chastity like the old days.
Giving charity to advance a religion doesn't strike me as charity either. There's loads of old chalices & monstrances at the Cloisters filled with the gold & jewels of Renascence & medieval nobles as if wood or pottery wasn't good enough.
"Isn't this government policy...."
Throwing around a bunch of the current catchphrases doth not a case make.
brushworks referring to Mother Teresa:
"don't take the verses so literally. Just imagine how the world would be if all of us were "willing" to do such things."
I shudder to think. Who'd actually do the real work? All the good things in my life have come from people who, not "literally", couldn't care less about me. Don't take that so literally, but if I waited for some good person to come along and feed me, I'd be dead a long time ago. The Invisible Hand of Adam Smith.
"I've got a great recipe for roasted goose with chipotle lime and cilantro sauce.
A fusion dish: Canadian/Mexican/Thai."
Seeing as how it could very well be your last meal, I certainly hope it's a great recipe.
"Being charitable equates to being a commie?
""It is not given that one man should possess that which is above another, wherefore the world lieth in sin."
Commie talk. Marx couldn't have said it better.
Poor charitable people are pretty worthless to me. I appreciate the thought, but give me a rich charitable person any day.
Every so often you post something interesting demonstrating insight Hay, unfortunately this is not one of those occasions and is just another outing for your Communist fixation.
"...just another outing for your Communist fixation."
Really, my fixation?
Who posted this? Take away the archaic speech and it could just as well be something that Karl Marx would have said.
""Those that fail to learn from history, are doomed to repeat it"
I'm trying to save you from yourself. "progressives, Socialists, Commies, they're all the same. It didn't work for the Commies, it won't work if they change their name to "progressives".
You're the one fixated. You just call yourself a different name.
Change the name to Occupiers. You know, the ones that tried to close down the California shipyards. Commie, union tactics. The same ones that tried to blow up a bridge in Ohio.
And today, in the news:
Occupy Terrorist suspects arrested in Chicago
Two Broward men accused of pre-NATO terror plot in Chicago
Could well have been a headline leading up to the Bolshevik Revolution in Russia.
"Two Broward County residents, both active in local Occupy protests here, are among three men arrested in Chicago this week on terrorism-related charges ahead of the NATO-summit meeting."
I'm fixated? No, you and the Occupy, "progressive", Socialist, Commie crowd are the ones fixated. Fixated on the idea that you can create a utopia on earth by taking from one person, (by force if necessary, and it's always necessary), and giving to yourself. It never works.
I'm trying to save you. My fixation.
They look so innocent and sweet, don't they? Occupy thugs. Commie thugs. They're cut from the same cloth.
Beer making equipment=terrorists plot
baa baa baa baa
"Beer making equipment=terrorists plot"
We'll see how it plays out.
Don't burn your bridges.....
"It is not given that one man should possess that which is above another, wherefore the world lieth in sin." This is an admirable notion....
"This is an admirable notion..."
And what does it take to achieve this "admirable notion" of yours?
You have an admirable path?
You obviously didn't catch the part where I said that this quote came from the vision of Joseph Smith, Hay. This man was the founder of Mormonism which is the religion of the man in opposition to the guy you previously were convinced was a commie. If not a fixation there must be some other reason why you truck out this tired old rhetoric at every opportunity so that there is a Socialist under every bed. If ever I am up before the beak I hope you are not one of the 12 who would have me swing because I closed my eyes during a flash photograph.
I can see why those guys need to take from someone else.
Loser Occupy Thugs.
What I've always found strange is Hay's inability to collect his thoughts and get them all down in one post like everyone else. It's as though he writes off the handle, so to speak, then has what he thinks is another brilliant thought, so posts again... and then again... and yet again... all in consecutive order without allowing anyone to respond to the first thought he had. Very odd, indeed.
But that has nothing to do with the OP, which is interesting in its own right. Mormonism has come a long way from the words of its original founder... and Romney has no idea... about that, or much of anything else.
Go and rearrange the doilies Demi, honestly, honestly you want to get on hayseeds band wagon? Or probably just want some entertainment while the sherry cools.
"Very odd, indeed."
You're going to teach me about what's odd?
Me, I'm off. Saturday night.
Now don't go and disappoint Hay, I did last week and since then I've felt terrible about it, he can put the guilt bug on you faster than a Jewish mother....now excuse me whist I drown my sorrows in my favorite beverage 8oP