Is anyone familiar with these plumerias?

andrew78(6)April 29, 2011

Hi guys,

Sorry I haven't been around here lately. I have the cahance to get a couple of plumerias but I am hesitant on a couple of them since I cannot find any info on them.

The first one is called Red Spider. I cannot even find pics of this variety.

The second is Golden Ray. I did see pics of this. From what I know, it is a Thai variety and before buying it, I want to make sure that it isn't a variety that requires high heat(temps above 85 degrees) in order to have flowers that don't look faded or washed out.

I really liked the picture of the flower! The petals looked tapered and enlongated. The colors are like the rainbow varieties. I can get this one for $25.

The Red Spider I can get for free along with Texas Aggie(which again, I don't know much about), and Kauaka Wilder(which I do know more about and I will be getting this one).

Laura is in CA right now buying me some plumerias. I know that she got me Somoan Fluff, and I believe Kaneohe Sunburst. She also bought me a Jeagne Moragne.

The 2nd Penang Peach plumeria that I got a few weeks ago is now pushing its first inflo. Also, my Thai Super Round is blooming. The woman who sold me the Super round gave it that name. Once I can post pics again, I will and maybe someone can give me a few ideas on what the ID really is.

Back around late March, I got an order from Mimi Palmer, the moderator for the aloha Plumeria forum. I bought what she has named Mimis Home Pride. This plumeria has flowers that range from a raspberry pink to almosta bany pink. Vey beautifull flowers. This cutting has thrown out its first inflo, along with my Thai Elsie.

Hopefully these plumerias that are blooming will be able to bloom again this summer outdoors, all except for the Penang Peach which wont go outdoors until temps are very warm!

I know it is practically impossible to ID a plumeria from just a picture but I am also going to post pics of the Mimi's home Pride, and maybe someone can ID it for me.

I also got cuttings of what she suspect maybe Hilo Beauty. Man, these dark red plumeria's reputation for being difficult to grow definetly is true! I bought 3 cuttings from her and they have been planted in a soiless mix with a raw egg for little over a month now, and still NOTHING! I have them under my 600 watt HPS light for about 12 hours each day. The cuttings themselves still are viable. I have not had trouble with rot, or the cutting dessicating.

I am really hoping that these(along with the other cuttings I am trying to root) will make it. The flower color isn't the only thing that I like about this variety. The leaf color is awesome!! I have never seen a plumeria like this BUT thanks to a generous and very kind memeber here, I now also have black Tiger and Scott Pratt.

I now am becoming obsessed with the dark red plumerias. Something about that deep almost black flwoer color!!


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slave2thefur(san diego - north coast)

Red Spider - more of a generic name, and could be anything. If you're looking for a red spider, find Ferris Wheel from 1-stop aloha.

Ferris Wheel large flowers with a beautiful color combination of orange, yellow and hot pink. The color is very vivid and has a very sweet fragrance. Rich red with fuchsia center, blooms every year even when small. Recommended for the coast.

Texas Aggie #197 2 1/2-3" rainbow with very fruity/grape fragrance. Reddish orange w/orange center; petal wide, elliptical, round tip, highly overlapping, strong red band on back; heavy texture; 3"; Fruity grape fragrance; good keeping quality. The flower is among the thickest petaled plumeria, similar to leather. The color is rich dark red with a unique, slight whitish rainbow variation on the front a back of the petals. It has a mild fragrance and a long branched growth habit. 2-2.5" and a strong texture. Cold sensitive. Red to orange rainbow blend, rounded flowers to 2 inches. Strong red band on petal reverse. Fruity fragrance and good keeping qualities because of the unusually thick petals. Elizabeth Thornton hybrid. Medium to large flowers with round and well overlapped petals. Huge flower heads. Recommended. Waiting 5 years for this photo. My Texas Aggie inflo will have anywhere from 2 to 4 flowers open at one time. But...... this morning it exploded into a huge cluster. And to top it off, it has the most intoxicating scent that dominates my plumie patch.

Kauka Wilder aka Doctor Wilder. #142 3" pink and orange, grainy and veined with fruity fragrance. An early, easy bloomer with red flowers streaked with strong yellow, on narrow, pointed petals. Unusually nice spicy fragrance. The flowers have a strong reddish-yellow color with a large bright yellow center, wide moderate red band on back. Petals are narrow and elliptical with pointed tips and slightly overlapping. 3", strong sweet fragrance. - strong reddish-yellow w/large, brilliant yellow center; petal narrow, elliptical, pointed tip, slightly overlapping, wide, moderate red band on back; keeping quality poor. A glowing star shaped flower, with a combination of yellow and red, giving it the appearance of brilliant orange blossoms, petals narrow, elliptical, pointed tip, slightly overlapping, 3", with strong spicy fruity sweet fragrance. Bright pink 3" star-shaped flowers with a golden orange center that radiates throughout the flower making it look like it is on fire. Medium tall growing tree. Strong reddish-yellow, large bright yellow center, wide moderate red band on back, tendency to fade, narrow elliptical petals, pointed tips, slight overlapping, texture 3", strong sweet fragrance. Strong reddish orange blooms with large bright yellow centers and moderate red band on back. Color may fade as blooms mature. Recommended for the coast. Named in honor of Kauka Wilder, associate botanist at Bishop Museum. Upright and dense growth habit. The blooms are approximately 3" and a very fiery red/orange with a very fruity fragrance. Intense combination of red and yellow, creating the appearance of a fiery reddish-orange bloom. Petals are narrow and slightly overlapping with pointed tips. Flowers average 3-4" and have an especially strong, sweet fragrance. One of the easiest to root, this flower blooms profusely. Hard to root.

Samoan Fluff #105 aka Tahitian White. White with small, brilliant greenish-yellow center and moderate pink bands on back. The petals are wide with a round tip and highly overlapping. The texture is good. The blooms average 3 1/2. - white w/small, brilliant greenish-yellow center; moderate pink bands on back; petal wide, round tip, highly overlapping; narrow, moderate pink band on back; good texture; slight sweet fragrance; keeping quality very good. Bright white 3" round very overlapped, which curl up on the outer edge, and a small yellow center. Light pink band on back of flower. Sweet fragrance. Most desirable plumeria for fragrance. Medium growing tree. Creamy texture, pure white with a yellow center. The fragrance is strong and seems to be a mixture of peach and rose. Recommended easiest to flower and grow. There is nothing shy about this Plumeria. The blooms are amazingly big and fluffy on this exceptional tree. Samoan Fluff has been added to our more cold tolerant varieties. This cultivar, with many large full flowers of good lei quality, does not discolor as fast as Common Yellow. The flowers occasionally have three or four petals. Among the earliest white cultivars to flower. Poor host for grafts. Large bright white 3 1/2" with bright yellow center - petals are very wide and heavily overlap and curl under at the tips making for an unusually shaped flower. Samoan Fluff has a sweet scent and a good keeping quality. One of the best blooming plumeria, bloom in a nice big bundles and keep color white in warm and cold climate, petals rounded with yellow center, 2.5", with nice jasmine scents. Easy to root. Tough. Blooms in my drought tolerant garden.

Kaneohe Sunburst #139 3 1/2" pink with orange centers, mild fragrance. Deep pink flowers streaked with radiant yellow and red. A long-season, heavy bloomer/seed-setter. Nice fragrance. Deep pink with dark red radiating lines, large bright orange yellow center, strong red narrow band on back, narrow elliptical petals, pointed tips, slight overlapping, medium texture, 3 to 3". Flower has a mild sweet fragrance. Deep pink w/large, brilliant yellow center, dark red radiating lines; petal narrow, elliptical pitch, pointed tip, slightly overlapping, narrow strong red band on back; good texture; keeping quality fair to good. Branching is dense and upright, however, branches are thin. Reverse cupped flowers, very showy, skinny branches. Sets seedpods. Recommended for the coast. Medium size tree. Green leaves are oblanceolate with acuminate tips. Thin branches and prone to wilt when it doesn't get enough water. Long season blooming, big bouquet and big bright pink orange flower. Large pink orange flower with red band on back. Bright yellow center, elliptical petals, pointed tip. Very good texture, mild sweet fragrance. Strong rose fragrance in cool climates.

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Kaneohe Sunrise Red, orange, pink and yellow blend. Average 3" with ovate petals that slightly overlapped. A mild peachy scent, sweetly scented 3.5" flowers are impressive in their intense color combination. A huge splash of golden-orange throughout the entire center and grainy hot violet-pink make this beauty stand out and shout. Petals are of thick texture, moderately overlap, and have excellent keeping quality. Beautiful rainbow blend of colors including red, orange, pink and yellow, with red lines radiating from the center, kind of like a starburst. Deep pink with large brilliant yellow center, dark red radiating lines. Narrow strong red band on back, 3 - 3" large blooms with a pleasant fragrance. Recommended for the coast. Modest Variation in color over life of flower. These sweetly scented 3.5" flowers are impressive in their intense color combination. A huge splash of golden-orange throughout the entire center and grainy hot violet-pink make this beauty stand out and shout. Petals are of thick texture, moderately overlap, and excellent keeping quality. Recommended for the coast.

Jean Moragne Jr. #161 AKA Jeannie Moragne 4 1/2" red flower with large yellow center, fruity fragrance. Vibrant red flower fading to reddish pink with large golden yellow bands and pinkish orange lines radiating toward outer edge of petal; narrow petals with pointed tip slightly overlapped; heavy texture; 4-1/2"; strong fruity, sweet rose scent; keeping quality good. One of the most striking flowers in the Moragne grouping. It has all the best characteristics for flower judging. Up to 5 1/2" flowers with orange streaking upon opening to slight pink at the edge of the petals. A star shaped flower with mild fragrance. Flowers are very large - up to 5 1/2" and appear orange upon opening blending to pink at the edges with very showy red veins in the petals. There is a grainy overlay of red-purple light on the left side of the petal and becomes a dense stripe on the right which forms the apparent shades of red and orange. A breath taking large flower 4" that appear cerise upon opening , fading to paler pink with white curved edges of petals, red eye, deep cerise throat, tight pinwheel shape, heavily overlapped, petals round. Strong sweet fruity rose scent, good texture. Spectacular 5" bright pink star-shaped flowers with dark pink streaks radiating from the gold center. Tall vigorous growing tree. Massive 5" flowers. Fabulous bright fiesta colors and excellent perfume. Vibrant red fading to reddish pink, large golden yellow bands and pinkish orange lines radiating outward, narrow petals, pointed tips, slight overlapping, heavy texture, 4-1/2", strong fruity sweet fragrance, keeping quality good. #161 Well known variety with large flowers of 3.5" to 4.5" flowers. Petals slight overlapping, oval and sharply pointed. Golden-yellow with red to purplish red area and red-orange veining radiating outwards. Flower-buds: dark red. Fragrance: fruity to smooth honey; Elliptical green leaves with red borders with acute tips. Very impressive Plumeria with strong colors and well shaped flowers. Largest individual flowers. The large flowers, the veining, the rainbow, the was the ONE to get for a while. It is a good one, even if it is grows into a weird shaped tree. Tree branches in unsightly manner. Not vigorous. Recommended for the coast. Root in dry conditions. Rangy growth habit. Elliptical green leaves have red borders with acute tips. Seed parent: Daisy Wilcox. Pollen parent: Scott Pratt. Named in honor of the daughter-in-law of William Moragne, Sr. Powerful red w/gold, blooms to 5-1/2", strong sweet scent and is possibly the fastest growing plumeria in captivity. Recommended for the coast. Heavy bloomer.

HTH ... Diana =^,,^=

    Bookmark   April 29, 2011 at 10:02AM
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Diana, your notes are great! Funny about the rooting ease of K. Wilder being contradictory--I had always heard it was very tough to root.

Andrew, sounds like you've got some very good, tested varieties coming from Laura. I've heard great things about the three she picked up for you. What little I know about the others you're looking into is that Aggie is not necessarily a prolific bloomer. On the MPG forum many who had it for years said they had not had blooms, or very infrequently, and these were folks in TX, CA and FL. May not be a great choice if you appreciate reliable bloomers like Penang Peach. Varieties like Slaughter Pink and K. Sunburst have a much better reputation for blooming.

I believe Kauka is a good bloomer but it does get big. I gave a grafted one to my mom for Christmas but it's too early for me to say much more about it.

As far as IDs go, with so much possible open pollination in Thailand and Hawaii it's possible that Mimi's and Sonia's plants are unique and unnamed.

Bet Laura is having the time of her life today; sure wish I could've gone! Have fun with your new plants!

    Bookmark   April 29, 2011 at 2:55PM
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freak4plumeria(So CA zone 10)

Hey Andrew,
Regarding "Golden Ray", there are 2 Thai Plants called "Golden Ray". Both are from Thailand and look alike, one is from Jungle Jacks and the other was sold via various Thai sellers and I think Brads Buds and Blooms had it. Ill post a pic of Jungle Jacks Golden Ray and he other one sold by Lopaka from his Thai supplier who is not JJ The JJ's one is from my patch and a pic from someone who lives in what I call Hades as it is typically 90's to 100's daily during the summer months, thus they get intense color. My patch is close to the beach and usually averages 77 to about 85 during the summer.

Jungle Jack's Golden Ray
My Pic by the coast:

JJ's Golden Ray in the HOT Inland Empire:

October blooms after rain not as bright

Thai Sellers Golden Ray in South Florida..These beauties were raised by Lopaka and he took the pics AMAZING Photographer. Lopaka also sells Thai Plumies from Thailand. 3 different stages of blooming and heat same plant

More heat

Full bloom full growing season and heat:

To me both look the same so you can compare and decide for yourself.
Again you need some heat in order to get the red to appear or it is more yellow/orange with some Red veining.

    Bookmark   April 29, 2011 at 8:28PM
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HEllo Freak for Plumeria,
The 3rd pic of the Golden ray is actually the one I am buying. I am getting it from Sonia who I believe took that photograph. I am also getting Gina from her. I just love the coloration of the Gloden Ray.

I have bought sveral plumeria from her in the past 6 months. My first order from her was my Penag Peach last November. I liked that plumeria so much, I bought a 2nd one from her along with a variety she calls Thai Super Round. I then bought Thai Jackie, Jenny, Christina, Spyn, Elsie, and she gave me a free My Valentine.

Her plumeria have never dissapointed me, and I have found her prices to be very reasonable. The plumeria always come in great shape and are well grown high quality plants. I have spent a lot since I found her but honestly, some of the plumeria I had never seen or heard of before like the Golden Ray, and the Thai Super Round.

IF I can get anymore this year(which I doubt), I would like to get Smith's Candy Apple, Samirie, and Lava Flow.


    Bookmark   May 1, 2011 at 1:41PM
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freak4plumeria(So CA zone 10)

Hey Andrew,

Yes those are Sonia's, and she lives in Hades as Upland is in the inland empire and Sonia bought her GR from John at Jungle Jacks and I actually bought my plant from her many years ago, so based on Temps, sunlight etc there will some variation. John from Junlge Jack stated that he can not find the mother plant in Thailand so basically all the Golden Ray being sold is generally from someone who bought the plant a while ago.

Actually if you look at Lopaka's first pic I listed the petal shape and placement of color on the large flower is pretty much right on and identical to Sonia's. Remember Lopaks plants are growing in hot steamy Ft Lauderdale, so it gets more sun, heat and humidity. Lopaka is also famous for having secret fertilizers and sprays he uses that make his plants grow super fast and flower. So even though some of Lopaka's other pics look different they are all the same as it is the same plant.

The only other thing I would say is that in the color coastal area where my patch is GR is temperamental, getting black tip and flowers never opening, or most of the buds drop. If you look at my pic that was the first of maybe 4 blooms that opened up, the rest dropped off. I know another person that lives near Sonia that has the same issue off and on.

Golden Ray is a beauty though so congrats!

    Bookmark   May 1, 2011 at 2:02PM
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freak4plumeria(So CA zone 10)


PS. Sonia does have great plants as I have bought from her several times. Since I have known John for a long time I generally buy directly from him, but sometimes Sonia finds a rare one so I just get it from her as she takes good care of her plumies. Gina is one of my fav's I have 3 of them. The first one I bought from John was when he brought them in from Thailand and paid about 150.00 for a 3 tipper in a 6" pot. Also I never keep multiples of the same variety so I really love The other thing is depending on the heat and temps you have during supper Jenny, and Jackie may not take on its look with the coloring or curling of the petals

Here is a pic of Jackie blooming last season in my cooler coastal area, pic was taken in late Aug:

Pics of other Jungle Jacks plumeis you got from my cooler patch:

Elsie without heat in mid June

Christina cooler temp first blooming

Blooming in Sept when temps where in the upper 80s


Taken in warmer temp in Sept

Jenny without heat in late June in my costal area

Jenny in heat

Penang Peach in late June when its cooler

Smith Candy Apple is a good one for cooler areas and good growth habit. Pic from cooler June

Samirie with heat

Samirie needs some heat to pop, with out heat

Lava Flow in cooler temps in June

So basically some plumies require heat and bright bright sun to look like the pics sometimes. If you live in an area that has cooler summers or near the coast you need to be more selective. Here are a few other plumies that do not perform well in cooler areas.

Purple Jack (looks pink, unless you have heat)
University Hawaii Orange
Emmersons Pink Nova (the white eye will not appear or pop without sun and heat)
Flames of the sun
Bonnie Fox
Madam Poni
Wild Fire only stays red never gets deep
Ruby Gold
Heart of Gold
Thai Peach, etc.

    Bookmark   May 1, 2011 at 3:05PM
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Loveplants2 8b Virginia Beach, Virginia


Hello Everyone....

Hi Andrew...

Had a wonderful time in Costa Mesa!!

I'm going to post pictures in a new thread soon!!

James.....OMG!! How the colors of all of them!

Take care everyone...

Laura in VB

    Bookmark   May 1, 2011 at 4:56PM
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isobea(10, San Diego)

Hi Laura, glad you made it home safely! How many plants / cuttings did you end up taking home with you? It sure was nice meeting up with everyone on Saturday. Can't wait for your pictures - somehow my camera wasn't working right, and I ended up with only two pictures.
James, I love the photos you posted, especially the ones of Gina. Like both of them, with and without heat. What do they smell like and how long do they last? Does this plant bloom from spring through fall? I live just 15 min. from JJ and was thinking of going over there in about 2 weeks.

    Bookmark   May 1, 2011 at 5:44PM
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freak4plumeria(So CA zone 10)

Hey Thanks Laura and Iso,
I wanted to go to Costa Mesa but didnt read the email till the other day... Sounded like fun


Gina is very sturdy, long lasting. Unfortunately there is not a strong fragrance, I usually pic my plants based on color and shape. Gina is an ok bloomer but not the best, but looks different depending on the weather, season etc. A definite must have in a collectors collection. If your that close to JJ's you should go, the Vista Location tends to have larger sized pots, ocean side is usually the smaller pots and rare ones.

Here is Gina with a more Lurline looking phase. To get the red color with rolled edges you need heat:

Thansk you guys

    Bookmark   May 1, 2011 at 7:23PM
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Loveplants2 8b Virginia Beach, Virginia

Hello Everyone!!!

Iso.. It was a pleasure meeting you as well..I will post a new thread with some pics...The trip back home went well..

I will share my photos with you if you would like..send me an email and we can get those to you!!

I did bring home some wonderful cuttings..i'm very happy with the whole trip..especially meeting all of you...Meeting Bud Guillot was such a treat!!!

James....would have enjoyed meeting you too! Bill and Sh....were wonderful... what a great couple!!!

Take care everyone!!

Laura in VB

    Bookmark   May 1, 2011 at 8:45PM
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freak4plumeria(So CA zone 10)

Hey Laura,
Bill and his wife are beyond fabulous and warm, great couple to hang with. I am bad about Emails as I have been really busy with construction projects going on, next time for sure.
Well glad to see you guys had a great time


    Bookmark   May 1, 2011 at 8:59PM
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isobea(10, San Diego)

James, thanks for the feedback. Since I don't have 'unlimited space', I'm trying to pick plants that I love but are fragrant, too. I've always just gone to JJ Vista location. If he has the rarer plants in Oceanside, do you think he has an Arctic Sun there? Do you have that one / what do you know about it? The picture in the catalog is amazing!
Thanks for sharing your knowledge and experience with us!

    Bookmark   May 1, 2011 at 9:20PM
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freak4plumeria(So CA zone 10)

I do not have an arctic sun. Since the Oceanside location is also his him John usually does not let people go unless he already knows you or he announces an open house. The last 2 open houses were at the Vista Location I believe. Call John and ask him about Arctic Sun, he will tell you if he has it and if not when he might get more. John is super nice, honest and reliable.


    Bookmark   May 1, 2011 at 11:57PM
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